The Best 10k workouts - by Greg Mcmillan

Itziger

wrstan wrote: »

Have you a race in mind Itziger?

My usual season opener: Postlaf in March. (In Luxembourg)

Itziger

So update time. Since I last posted I've done a 12x400 session with 1:16 rec (don't ask) Did em in about 80 seconds each - 4 of them were 1.19.9 exactly! I had set the Garmin at 410 metres. And today I did the 2x2mile + 2x1mile session. While tough, I thought it went well. The first two 2 milers were a bit up and down 11.39 and 11.56. The single miles were 6.01 and 5.55. Rec was 3 minutes between the 2 milers and 2 mins between the 1 miles. This year I have no excuses. Last year due to snow and ice, I couldn't do almost any of the short sharp stuff. So far this year I've done the 400's and a set of 200's.

Something tells me the 10k pace sessions are the real deal though. Only one of those to go. I'm a bit ahead of time! Might repeat the last tough one or go back to the 6 single miles and see if they feel easier. They bloody should obviously.

Itziger

Update. Mixed report of the 3x2mile session.

Started off badly when I noticed a pain in my foot. Thought the lace was a bit tight or there was something in the sock but it turns out I had a minor blister. Burst it (I know!) but it did improve things a bit. The session itself was a bit up and down. After a 2.5k warm up I start the first - I'd set the Garmin distance at 3.26k cos this wasn't on the track and I reckon that is as near as bedamned to 2 miles in Garmin language. Was aiming/hoping for something a little under 12 minutes. First one came in at 11.47 but it was a bit downhill, and only figuratively, from there. Second one was 12.19 - not happy - but I was a bit more content when I managed 12.01 for the last. Also, the last was the most into the wind of the three so that was good.

While it wasn't what I was looking for, I'm not too despondent. I have done some half-decent runs in the last couple of weeks and will be more rested for the races in March than I was this morning. I took 3 and a half minute recovery instead of 5 which is surely too generous. I'm a tiny bit ahead of schedule as I was allowing for a missed session or two due to snow/ice. I could easily try this 3x2 again next week. Either that or go back to the first of the training spins, the 6x1 mile one. It would hopefully be easier now!!

belcarra

Probably best to try this session again next week? I imagine the 6 x 1 would be a piece of pi$$ for you now (relatively speaking!). You will probably hit all targets next time out.
Or, how about a 2 x 3miler session? That would be a fair bit tougher again but even better training, no? (just keep an eye on recovery for whenever the races are!)

Itziger

belcarra wrote: »

Probably best to try this session again next week? I imagine the 6 x 1 would be a piece of pi$$ for you now (relatively speaking!). You will probably hit all targets next time out.
Or, how about a 2 x 3miler session? That would be a fair bit tougher again but even better training, no? (just keep an eye on recovery for whenever the races are!)

Yeah, you're probably right. Will repeat the 3x2m. I've kinda thought about the other possibility, the 2x3m but I don't see it recommended anywhere! There must be a reason.

YFlyer

The 2 by 3 miles be done at tempo pace. More suitable for a 10 miler or HM.

Itziger

YFlyer wrote: »

The 2 by 3 miles be done at tempo pace. More suitable for a 10 miler or HM.

Yeah that makes sense. Last year I did a 5k+5k+4k in my build up to a Half (At least I think that's what I did, must see if I can find it on Garmin records).

Done at Planned Half Pace.

YFlyer

Yeah 2 by 3 miles at goal 10K race pace be a brutal session.

Itziger

Ok, probably last update before race on March 9th.

I've changed plan a little but I think it still works (I hope it does!)

Last Saturday I did a progression run with a Canadian Tri guy.. 4k@5min pace, 4k@4.30, 3k@4.00 and 3k@ 3.45. (It was supposed to be 4k at 4.00 pace but I had to change that on the hoof. My man couldn't do the 3.45 pace at all even though it was his suggestion and he's faster than me for 10k and Half.)

Yesterday I did a 5x2k at 3.40 pace. Didn't have my watch set for this and had to trust the bloke I was doing em with. I joined him halfway through his first rep. and I think we did the rest of them at the intended pace. Static walking rec of 2.5 minutes

Might do a session on Saturday. Don't know what yet, nothing TOOO strenuous. Is 8 days out ok for a decent session???

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Might do a session on Saturday. Don't know what yet, nothing TOOO strenuous. Is 8 days out ok for a decent session???

I'd have thought that 8 days out would be perfect for a final tough session for a 10k race (obviously different if you were targeting a marathon). IIRC, the final tough Macmillan session is supposed to be 9-12 days before the goal 10k, so you could argue that it's worth doing this session a little sooner. Doesn't sound like you're really following the Macmillan program anyway though, so this is more of a training log?

Still worth doing an abbreviated session with 4-5 days to go, like 3x1200m @threshold pace, with 2 mins easy running recovery, or something like that.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd have thought that 8 days out would be perfect for a final tough session for a 10k race (obviously different if you were targeting a marathon). IIRC, the final tough Macmillan session is supposed to be 9-12 days before the goal 10k, so you could argue that it's worth doing this session a little sooner. Doesn't sound like you're really following the Macmillan program anyway though, so this is more of a training log?

Still worth doing an abbreviated session with 4-5 days to go, like 3x1200m @threshold pace, with 2 mins easy running recovery, or something like that.

Krusty, I had been following the Mcm plan but I was a week ahead of schedule. As the last two bits were done with the upcoming 10k in mind I said I'd chuck em in here for people's perusal. Yes, the last big session is supposed to be 10 days out, I guess I could do 8. If all goes well I might try your last suggestion too. I tend to take things easy the week of a race, maybe too easy. I'm hoping to follow up the March 9th one with a second 10k the following Sunday.

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Krusty, I had been following the Mcm plan but I was a week ahead of schedule. As the last two bits were done with the upcoming 10k in mind I said I'd chuck em in here for people's perusal. Yes, the last big session is supposed to be 10 days out, I guess I could do 8. If all goes well I might try your last suggestion too. I tend to take things easy the week of a race, maybe too easy. I'm hoping to follow up the March 9th one with a second 10k the following Sunday.

No worries. Just wondering if you completed (or plan to complete) the key session, specifically the 3 x 2 mile. All of the other sessions are just building up to this one session (steps to get you to the big kahuna). Is that the one you're planning on doing 8 days out?

By the way, I tried to follow the plan a couple of years back and failed at the final hurdle, but still benefited much from the sessions. In the days leading up to the race, do whatever works best for you. Some strides a couple of days beforehand would work just as well (threshold running isn't too relevant to 10k anyway - just a suggestion to keep the legs ticking over).

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

No worries. Just wondering if you completed (or plan to complete) the key session, specifically the 3 x 2 mile. All of the other sessions are just building up to this one session (steps to get you to the big kahuna). Is that the one you're planning on doing 8 days out?

By the way, I tried to follow the plan a couple of years back and failed at the final hurdle, but still benefited much from the sessions. In the days leading up to the race, do whatever works best for you. Some strides a couple of days beforehand would work just as well (threshold running isn't too relevant to 10k anyway - just a suggestion to keep the legs ticking over).

I did the 3x2 miler though it wasn't that successful - think I've mentioned it above. The target pace is 3.40/3.45. As the PB is 37.48 anything in or around 3.45 would be a new best but I'm hoping to hit 37 flat if possible. Then the weekend after I may go more aggressive though that's a little against my running philosophy for the most part.

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

I did the 3x2 miler though it wasn't that successful - think I've mentioned it above. The target pace is 3.40/3.45. As the PB is 37.48 anything in or around 3.45 would be a new best but I'm hoping to hit 37 flat if possible. Then the weekend after I may go more aggressive though that's a little against my running philosophy for the most part.

Yeah, I saw that, but you missed your targets and did it a couple of weeks before your goal race. So why not repeat it and try and hit the numbers and time it, so that it's 9-12 days before the goal?

Itziger

Belcarra, you seem to be very interested in my doing another 3x2. Do tell.

Btw, what are your upcoming goals?

belcarra

Itziger wrote: »

Belcarra, you seem to be very interested in my doing another 3x2. Do tell.

Btw, what are your upcoming goals?

Haha! No I just agree with KC.
Firstly, you are well timed doing it 8-10 days before the goal race and secondly if the initial session was tough then this is a chance to improve on that as well as gain further training adaptation. Otherwise it'll be the guts of 3 weeks between the goal session and your race at this stage and the plan (which you are following!) states the session should be 10 days before the goal race. Either you are following the plan or not?!;)

My only goal at this stage is Dusseldorf on April 27th. I'm doing Bohermeen HM @ MP this weekend and then 'jogging' Barcelona 6 weeks before D-Day. Still undecided about 'settling' for 3:15 or aggressively going for 3:10. The HM this weekend should tell a lot as I aim to thrown in 10km beforehand and then run the HM @ 4:30/km which would be MP for 3:10 marathon. If I can manage that for the full HM then I'll be in good shape. Probably more likely to ease back a little earlier though so we shall see...
Dusseldorf would be a nice day trip for a man in Luxembourg, ya?!

Itziger

belcarra wrote: »

Haha! No I just agree with KC.
Firstly, you are well timed doing it 8-10 days before the goal race and secondly if the initial session was tough then this is a chance to improve on that as well as gain further training adaptation. Otherwise it'll be the guts of 3 weeks between the goal session and your race at this stage and the plan (which you are following!) states the session should be 10 days before the goal race. Either you are following the plan or not?!;)

My only goal at this stage is Dusseldorf on April 27th. I'm doing Bohermeen HM @ MP this weekend and then 'jogging' Barcelona 6 weeks before D-Day. Still undecided about 'settling' for 3:15 or aggressively going for 3:10. The HM this weekend should tell a lot as I aim to thrown in 10km beforehand and then run the HM @ 4:30/km which would be MP for 3:10 marathon. If I can manage that for the full HM then I'll be in good shape. Probably more likely to ease back a little earlier though so we shall see...
Dusseldorf would be a nice day trip for a man in Luxembourg, ya?!

Dusseldorf you say......... Jaysus, I'd never have time to get the distance up by then! I wouldn't mind trying 3.15 maybe but anything faster I doubt. Nah, I'm not going there, literally or figuratively.
You're right about the plan of course, either I do it or I don't. That said, 5 x2 k yesterday isn't a
bad compromise!

Itziger

Ok, this really is going to be my last post before race.

I've been fairly stupid these last two weeks. I was more or less on track but I took my eye off the ball and broke one or two golden rules. I think (and hope) I've done too much. I should know by now that I'm a one decent session a week man, or at the very best I need 3 or 4 days between hard runs. So two weeks ago I did the 3x2 mile session, followed by a progression run 2 days later. Then this week I did the 5x2k on Wed and tried, I say tried! the 3x2miler again today. I'm not giving the splits. Just let's say it didn't go too well. So, I'm somewhat despondent - the 3.40 pace is looking very optimistic - and I'm going to take things real easy for the next week. A couple of easy bits with only a few strides thrown in. I'm hoping the dodgy effort this morning was because of the 5x2k and I suppose the wet and windy 15k yesterday afternoon.

For 'scientific' purposes I'll give the shameful splits after the target race.

belcarra

Oops, I'm beginning to fell a little guilty! It was all Krusty's fault though!!

Krusty_Clown

belcarra wrote: »

Oops, I'm beginning to fell a little guilty! It was all Krusty's fault though!!

The plan is pretty straightforward. It lists the key workouts, and how far out from the race you should do them. If it's bad advice to suggest to someone that they should do the prescribed session in the prescribed time-frame, then there's little point in having training plans.

belcarra

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The plan is pretty straightforward. It lists the key workouts, and how far out from the race you should do them. If it's bad advice to suggest to someone that they should do the prescribed session in the prescribed time-frame, then there's little point in having training plans.

Just in case my comment was misinterpreted Krusty - i was only joking about trying to lay any blame on you! And tbh I don't really feel any hint of guilt for offering my advice either.

Itziger is big enough and old enough to know what to do with advice offered. Sounds like it was just a case of too much at once over the past week's training. Hopefully his plan for the run in to the goal race will get him across the line in goal time!

Itziger

Well, I'm still alive! Bagged a pb, didn't quite hit the target of 37 flat, in fact missed it by 29 secs according to the watch. Happy enough all told. I have another 10k next week. I believe it's flatter although more twisty. Weather today was a dream. Now to clean the BBQ! and pour myself a beer. Okult No1 Blanche (Just in case there are any beer aficionados lurking here )

adrian522

Well done, nice time there!

Finnt

Fair play that's a nice run!

Itziger

New 10k race, new pb. If anyone is interested in following the McMillan plan, I have a (b) option. Do a 10k one week out at near as possible to goal pace. Last week I got 37.29, this Sunday 37.07.

A small bit disappointed I couldn't find the 8 seconds but happy overall. Course was flatter but a tad twisty and I'm shocking going around corners, don't know why. There was a 2.5 k stretch into a stiff breeze and that added 10 seconds or so but there's always something, we don't run in a vacuum.

Hopefully will dip below the 37 later this year or next. For now through, enough of this. Must up the mileage.

Finnt

Itziger wrote: »

I'm shocking going around corners.

I've a friend with a greyhound that's the same!! Seriously that's good running, fair okay to you. Just wondering what's your average weekly mileage?

Itziger

Finnt wrote: »

I've a friend with a greyhound that's the same!! Seriously that's good running, fair okay to you. Just wondering what's your average weekly mileage?

Finnt, for this program me I've been doing roughly 60k or so a week I reckon. I don't log it religiously to tell the truth. I was doing a LR on Sundays of between 16 and 23 k. Would do one or two 15k runs and a snappier session in mid week. Maybe a 10k rec run now and again. Got out 4 or 5 times a week.

Longest weekly total probably near 75k actually. Took it easy before last week's race and the same before today's. Got out 3 times between the two races. 9k, 10k with a little pace and a short little track session just to remind the legs of speed - just a few 400's. Body felt ok today - not super good but happy enough all the same.

Finnt

Fair play it's working for ya anyway! I've flicked thru the thread and it makes interesting reading, what's the plan for the rest of the year?

Laois_Man

Been reading this thread in bits and pieces whenever I can find the time. Finally finished it. My goal 10K is 11 and a half weeks away. But I am gonna start this 8 week program tonight and a good idea I have seen in this thread is to start with either a 4x1mile or a 6x1K session. So seeing as I have a bit of extra time, I am gonna do that (6x1K with 3 minute recoveries) and then maybe straight into the 6x1 mile and keep a bit of my extra time in the bank to repeat a session later on. I'll see.

I have only raced the 10K distance twice and my PB is 49:40 from less than 3 weeks ago. That was a time I set after a pretty shambolic period between early december and early February where injuries screwed me up. So I know I can do a lot better than 49:40 with a good consistent stretch of training and some speedwork which I couldn't do very much of. I'm thinking a goal time of 47:59 is a good starting point to aim for which is fairly reasonable and hopefully it'll prove to be a conservative aim. Thing is, I haven't much of an idea what the course is like but they're saying it's nice and flat.

I am used to running on concrete or tarmac so I wanna start this trining on a flat GAA pitch and I'll use my lead-in time to get used to that too.

Itziger

Laois_Man wrote: »

Been reading this thread in bits and pieces whenever I can find the time. Finally finished it. My goal 10K is 11 and a half weeks away. But I am gonna start this 8 week program tonight and a good idea I have seen in this thread is to start with either a 4x1mile or a 6x1K session. So seeing as I have a bit of extra time, I am gonna do that (6x1K with 3 minute recoveries) and then maybe straight into the 6x1 mile and keep a bit of my extra time in the bank to repeat a session later on. I'll see.

I have only raced the 10K distance twice and my PB is 49:40 from less than 3 weeks ago. That was a time I set after a pretty shambolic period between early december and early February where injuries screwed me up. So I know I can do a lot better than 49:40 with a good consistent stretch of training and some speedwork which I couldn't do very much of. I'm thinking a goal time of 47:59 is a good starting point to aim for which is fairly reasonable and hopefully it'll prove to be a conservative aim. Thing is, I haven't much of an idea what the course is like but they're saying it's nice and flat.

I am used to running on concrete or tarmac so I wanna start this trining on a flat GAA pitch and I'll use my lead-in time to get used to that too.

Interesting, you don't have access to a track, no? The Gaa pitch wouldn't be the worse option I suppose - what's the ground like these days? Giving yourself a week in hand isn't a bad idea, especially if you struggle at a session and feel you have to repeat it rather than move onto the next week. Otherwise I would try to stick to the plan (!).

Be interesting to see how it goes...... G'luck!