The Anglo Irish Tapes

Ash.J.Williams · 26-06-2013 12:57PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so why exactly was that referendum that would have given more power to politicians to conduct inquiries into the banks rejected by a majority in 2011 or whenever it was...?

well to be fair...it was politicians that were stupid enough to be duped by anglo, also our current government are a christian democrat movement and do we want them to have the power to summon us (the people) before a tribunal?

Wurzelbert · 26-06-2013 12:59PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

well to be fair...it was politicians that were stupid enough to be duped by anglo, also our current government are a christian democrat movement and do we want them to have the power to summon us (the people) before a tribunal?

well, those bankers should be summoned before a tribunal for sure...

EyeSight · 26-06-2013 12:59PM

if this was the USA we would see them in an orange jumpsuit by now. Say what you want about them and their politics, but in situations like this, they are swift to punish, attempt to fix and move on.
We just deny everything even with blatant evidence and IF we manage to do anything it will be an inquiry which will take years and millions of euro. Then nothing will change.

Ash.J.Williams · 26-06-2013 01:00PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

well, those bankers should be summoned before a tribunal for sure...

true...can we legislate to change our system to just deal with the banks?

RiverOfLove · 26-06-2013 01:04PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so why exactly was that referendum that would have given more power to politicians to conduct inquiries into the banks rejected by a majority in 2011 or whenever it was...?

The wording of it was dodgy as fcuk. The wording of the referendum was to allow the government to hold inquiries on anyone of public importance. That could have meant the local shopkeeper being hauled up into the dail inquiries for a slight wrong or anyone one of us other plebs.

You do you realise that the government is caught up in this whole muck? It would allow them to investigate themselves and I wouldn't see that go well and productive and be of value and substance.

Leftist · 26-06-2013 01:08PM

the ff's on blaming fg

they really are a horrific bunch. If these animals get back into power I will seriously consider repatriation.

P. Breathnach · 26-06-2013 01:09PM

EyeSight wrote: »

if this was the USA we would see them in an orange jumpsuit by now.

That's a bit of "sentence first; verdict afterwards".

Say what you want about them and their politics, but in situations like this, they are swift to punish, attempt to fix and move on.

That is a very fair point. Our system is incredibly slow and cumbersome. That is probably down to a variety of reasons, such as
- lack of resources generally;
- shortage of suitably skilled people for investigating complex matters;
- judicial rules that are unduly burdensome;
- the small circles in which certain types of person operate, making it difficult to find neutral people;
- at this stage, an ingrained tradition of slowness.

bumper234 · 26-06-2013 01:10PM

awec wrote: »

I am genuinely baffled as to how a political party could be duped by this.

Did they really just say "we need 7 billion" and Fianna Fáil wrote them a cheque? Surely there was thorough investigation of the books of the bank before a penny was handed over?

What they said was "we need 7 billion now or the whole banking sector will collapse and will spread throughout Europe". They told the government that there was not time for talk and that they needed to guarantee the banks now or face financial collapse. The government panicked (thinking that it would only be 7 billion) and wrote the bank guarantee that now has this country on it's knees for the next 30 years.

26-06-2013 01:17PM

can someone sum this up for me ?

the bank took 7 billion knowing they could of pay it back ?

Zebra3 · 26-06-2013 01:19PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

We're talking about Anglo and the FF Government, they had the power and they made the decision.

Once again, why all this deflection? Why this need to share the blame? As said above, of all the main parties it was only Labour who voted against the bill. The facts are that FF held the reigns of government and had all their cronies in positions such as the Financial Regulator and that's what led to this mess.

And FG failed as their role as the main opposition party.

Why?

Whiff of collusion there as well.....

Sky King · 26-06-2013 01:20PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

well, those bankers should be summoned before a tribunal for sure...

Spend ten years and a billion Euros on a process which yields no outcome other than confirming what we knew all along : They are a shower of crooks and are going to walk away scot free.

No thanks.

bumper234 · 26-06-2013 01:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

can someone sum this up for me ?

the bank took 7 billion knowing they could of pay it back ?

No

They took €7 Billion knowing that they couldn't pay it back and ALSO knowing that they would need another €20+ BILLION

awec · 26-06-2013 01:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

can someone sum this up for me ?

the bank took 7 billion knowing they could of pay it back ?

They asked for 7 billion when they knew that it wasn't enough. They asked for an amount that they knew the government would pay, because once the government paid once they also knew that the government would have to keep paying.

RiverOfLove · 26-06-2013 01:33PM

bumper234 wrote: »

No

They took €7 Billion knowing that they couldn't pay it back and ALSO knowing that they would need another €20+ BILLION

And the bank should never have been saved to begin with.

RiverOfLove · 26-06-2013 01:38PM

Paul Williams was on newstalk hinting that one of the tapes links a top civil servant to anglo.

Dyr · 26-06-2013 01:45PM

RiverOfLove wrote: »

Paul Williams was on newstalk hinting that one of the tapes links a top civil servant to anglo.

There's a suprise :pac:

WoollyRedHat · 26-06-2013 01:48PM

I thought this video was fitting with the topic of the thread. A classic.

AnOrdinaryJoe · 26-06-2013 01:57PM

With 'everything which is going on' involving senior bank officials, and whilst un-connected to the current Anglo Irish 'incredibly talented arse' saga, in connection to some research I am currently engaged in, I came across this article (below) from the BBC.

Allegation involving 'senior Ulster Bank executive involvement in the co-ordination of assassinations'

Please note: I do not make any comment regarding the accuracy of this material, the only comment I make in this respect is to state that it is on the internet and able to be sourced by anyone, as I have, and that in relation to the court case in question, the journalist concerned won the case and was awarded a significant level of damages for libel in connection to the Sunday Times allegations that his allegations were without foundation.

Neither do I make any comment regarding whether or not this information is relevant to current issues regarding the conduct and behaviours of bank sector executives.

Neither do I comment regarding what senior bank executives might be or might not be prepared to engage in or may have engaged in.

I would comment that some people i.e. senior bank officials, are of the opinion that all senior bank officials are persons of the utmost propriety.

I would also comment that it is likely the families of most or all senior bank officials love them dearly.

BBC Friday, 28 January, 2000, 20:13 GMT

Bank executive ‘chaired ‘death squad

A senior executive of the Ulster Bank was chairman of a high-powered committee which co-ordinated the assassination of republicans by loyalist death squads, a court has heard.

TV journalist Sean McPhilemy, who is suing the Sunday Times for libel over claims that his Channel 4 documentary, The Committee, was a hoax and a deception, named the executive as (REDACTED).

.......he was told that Mr (REDACTED, the senior Ulster Bank official) had found out he was the head of TV production company Box Productions (the senior bank executive in question) and "had been to reconnoitre my farmhouse outside Oxford".

He knew that (REDACTED) had said Mr (REDACTED) was involved in committee meetings which gave the go-ahead for the shooting of Catholic lawyer Pat Finucane.

"I was very frightened. I had a young family at the time," Mr McPhilemy told Mr Justice Eady and a jury.

Mr McPhilemy said incidents during the making of the programme made him concerned for the safety of his wife and four children and the production staff.

He said he received a message that four men were on their way from Northern Ireland to pay him a visit with hostile intent, and as a result Channel 4 paid for him to move his family away.

Mr McPhilemy denied suggestions in a Sunday Express article that he was guilty of deception and had fabricated the security threats to enhance the credibility of his programme in the eyes of Channel 4 executives.

After the programme was broadcast, he received threatening letters and a card bearing the words "with deepest sympathy" addressed to "The Fenian, Box Productions".

Note: the term ‘fenian’ is the shortened name of the pro United Ireland organisation ‘the Fenian Brotherhood’ formed in the US in 1858, and the name in modern times used as a derogatory term for individuals of catholic persuasion, by individuals from the loyalist ‘side’ who may also at the same time be religious bigots.

‘Laughed out of court’

The court case was ‘laughed out of court’ by the judge resulting in The Sunday Times losing its case and the film maker Sean McPhilemy being awarded £145,000 in libel damages.

‘Film-maker Sean McPhilemy won £145,000 in libel damages from the Sunday Times. Last week when the paper lost its appeal, the judges were openly dismissive. The Guardian newspaper’s Roy Greenslade on the latest twist in an eight-year saga’.

‘The Sunday Times was, according to one of its legal team, "reeling" last week after one of the most extraordinary endings to an appeal hearing that anyone can recall. It's not too far-fetched to say the paper was laughed out of court.’

‘It wasn't simply that the three appeal court judges refused an application to overturn a jury's verdict which resulted in the paper having to pay £145,000 in libel damages, it was the dismissive manner in which they did so. After listening to the submission from the Sunday Times's counsel, they retired for just a few minutes and, on their return, told the opposing counsel that there was no need to trouble him.’

Ash.J.Williams · 26-06-2013 02:01PM

Should "we" be making complaints to the gardai about these tapes?

AnOrdinaryJoe · 26-06-2013 02:08PM

None of us 'ordinary plebs' really have any idea regarding the extent of the 'powers' and the extent of the contacts these senior banking types, and some political types actually have....... it's all a bit 'murky waters' to me I have to say. Maybe best that we don't know otherwise we might be slitting our wrists and those of our children who are supposed to grow up in this pathetic cesspit of ****e.

Paddy Samurai · 26-06-2013 02:14PM

No need for wasting time with Inquiries.

fraud (frôd)
n. 1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Ergo...Fraud Squad..........Arrest,Trial and Imprisonment for all involved.

Yeah I know I jumped the gun with Imprisonment ,but I don't care.

tayto lover · 26-06-2013 02:22PM

MrPoker wrote: »

I'll be attending the protest tomorrow demanding justice. We need to throw these guys who caused this mess under the bus now. Bankers, polititicians and everybody who was involved in this mess. Unless we do so our international reputation will be destroyed and we will not be respected and be considered a basket case of a nation.

This is not an attack on our current government and we need to put clear water between them and our previous farce of a government FF so we can move forward. It sickens me to see FF rise again. A precedent needs to be set to ensure this type of crisis and robbery never happens again in the future.

And Nero fiddled while Rome burnt.

TheFOB · 26-06-2013 02:24PM

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

With 'everything which is going on' involving senior bank officials, and whilst un-connected to the current Anglo Irish 'incredibly talented arse' saga, in connection to some research I am currently engaged in, I came across this article (below) from the BBC.

Allegation involving 'senior Ulster Bank executive involvement in the co-ordination of assassinations'

Please note: I do not make any comment regarding the accuracy of this material, the only comment I make in this respect is to state that it is on the internet and able to be sourced by anyone, as I have, and that in relation to the court case in question, the journalist concerned won the case and was awarded a significant level of damages for libel in connection to the Sunday Times allegations that his allegations were without foundation.

Neither do I make any comment regarding whether or not this information is relevant to current issues regarding the conduct and behaviours of bank sector executives.

Neither do I comment regarding what senior bank executives might be or might not be prepared to engage in or may have engaged in.

I would comment that some people i.e. senior bank officials, are of the opinion that all senior bank officials are persons of the utmost propriety.

I would also comment that it is likely the families of most or all senior bank officials love them dearly.

Jesus Christ. Cover your arse much..

tayto lover · 26-06-2013 02:25PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well the Jury is still out and whether they were 'duped' or whether they were up to their necks in it themselves. Do we need a reminder of the Golden Circle debacle?

An Axis of Collusion is what Enda called it, and that's what it was. Whatever about whether it was corruption, or stupidity, or a little of both - It was FF and Anglo in bed with each other that caused this mess.

FG didn't bring in the banking guarantee, so I don't see why mentioning parties like FG/Labour/SF etc are in any way relevant. All that does is deflect from the fact that it was FF who made the original mess, and allows FF off scott-free by devaluing the level of destruction that was ravaged on the Irish state by them and their golfing buddies.

I agree with your post re FF. BUT FG voted for the bank guarantee and slept on the opposition benches while all this was happening.
Did FG look into what was happening in the banks or even ask to examine their books before voting for the guarantee?

The political parties are all the same.

Boombastic · 26-06-2013 02:29PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree with your post re FF. BUT FG voted for the bank guarantee and slept on the opposition benches while all this was happening.
Did FG look into what was happening in the banks or even ask to examine their books before voting for the guarantee?

The political parties are all the same.

At election Enda asked, what do you think of my manifesto?
They people liked his manifesto, said 'let's put it to the test'o......

After election, he did the opposite, sigh sure don't the all. Politics is jaded in this country, same old swings and roundabouts

26-06-2013 02:36PM

the hole story of Ireland is just sad from bad banks to pervert priest . and when its this bad , you know there more around the corner

what a joke of a country we are

TheFOB · 26-06-2013 02:53PM

Was there new tapes released today? I find the IrishIndependent website infuriating to navigate.

Boombastic · 26-06-2013 02:55PM

TheFOB wrote: »

Was there new tapes released today? I find the IrishIndependent website infuriating to navigate.

No, not yet at least. They have just hinted what might be on them. Drummer laughs 'Another day, another billion', link to a high level civil servant and maybe politician....

TheFOB · 26-06-2013 02:59PM

Boombastic wrote: »

No, not yet at least. They have just hinted what might be on them. Drummer laughs 'Another day, another billion', link to a high level civil servant and maybe politician....

Ah I see that now.

Independent

These tapes are being analysed by the Irish Independent investigation team and shed much new light on the hours ahead of the guarantee and the machinations involving bankers and politicians.

We plan to publish the new revelations following further scrutiny and cross-checking by the investigation team.

Early examination shows evidence of Mr Drumm's willingness to take expedient shortcuts and his use of colourful language, including his references to "Another day, another billion".

The tapes also put politicians firmly in the spotlight.

A fourth senior Anglo executive also enters the frame in these tapes for the first time.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/another-day-another-billion-laughs-drumm-29372488.html

Noreen1 · 26-06-2013 03:03PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

That is not fair, no one told him about the tapes the Gardai had in their possession for the last four years.

You don't think the minister for Finance enquired of the Gardai how the investigation was developing?
I think he certainly should have!

Fiery biscuits wrote: »

Scumbags and cowboys

Never again will I entertain a person who says that we need to pay huge salaries and pensions in order to get suitable candidates for top jobs.

`Pay peanuts, get monkeys`. Evidently, the monkeys were in charge and now everyone is paid peanuts.

Precisely.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well the Jury is still out and whether they were 'duped' or whether they were up to their necks in it themselves. Do we need a reminder of the Golden Circle debacle?

An Axis of Collusion is what Enda called it, and that's what it was. Whatever about whether it was corruption, or stupidity, or a little of both - It was FF and Anglo in bed with each other that caused this mess.

FG didn't bring in the banking guarantee, so I don't see why mentioning parties like FG/Labour/SF etc are in any way relevant. All that does is deflect from the fact that it was FF who made the original mess, and allows FF off scott-free by devaluing the level of destruction that was ravaged on the Irish state by them and their golfing buddies.

Hmm. But wasn't it FG/Labour who rushed through legislation to wind up IBRC, formerly Anglo, right before a court challenge to the Bailout?

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so why exactly was that referendum that would have given more power to politicians to conduct inquiries into the banks rejected by a majority in 2011 or whenever it was...?

In my case, it was because I don't trust the monkeys who helped destroy this Country to enquire what kind of day it is - much less matters of National importance!

Wurzelbert wrote: »

well, those bankers should be summoned before a tribunal for sure...

What for? So the same guys who guaranteed their losses, and passed them on to the citizens of this Country can say "Dear me! Naughty boys!".
No. Those Bankers, and anyone who aided and abetted them, should be hauled to Court, and, if found guilty, should have all their assets stripped, and should spend the rest of their lives living on social welfare - paid for from the pension pots of politicians and senior civil servants who allowed them to defraud everyone else, through their (Criminal?) negligence!

The Anglo Irish Tapes

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