Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

KevIRL · 03-06-2013 9:53am

@ML, nice write up and I would agree with a lot of what you said. I wouldnt though agree though with citing our forwards as a positive. Even if they all got scores from play I felt that throughout the game we were carrying at least 3 of the 6 forwards, Paudie was very poor throughout, Jamie Barron likewise and Ray Barry never got into the game after coming on early. Maurice showed what a threat he can be in the first half but faded badly in the second, perhaps struggling with an injury, but he was badly caught for pace and a lack of awareness late on in the game. Jake and Seamus both had good games

I dont want to be too critical cause like you said we are in a period of transition and have been hit with injuries, but I hope some good level of target practise can be arranged for the lads before the next game.

deiseach · 03-06-2013 10:02am

Hidalgo wrote: »

From a Clare pov,
After a great start we gifted Waterford a goal and then completely fell apart for 20 mins.
Waterford should have been up by more than 4 at half time and then hit 3 quick wides at the start of the 2nd half.
At this stage it should have been game over.

Maurice Shanahan faded in the 2nd half, he was causing serious damage in the 1st.
There's no way I'd have predicted a Clare win with Conor McGrath so quiet, Connors really had the shackles on him.

Jamie Nagle was my MOTM, Brick was also qulaity. Best 2 players were both Waterford.

Fair analysis. Had we gotten ahead early in the second half to the point where Clare might have started trying for goals, it might have been different. But having failed to build that platform Clare went through us like a dose of salts. You can read all that stretched out to a couple of thousand words here.

Hidalgo · 03-06-2013 10:53am

Limestone1 wrote: »

That was the quietest I've seen Thurles for a championship game in a long time. The game never took off and was poor championship fare - no bite, no anger or aggression (apart from Davy!). Very dissappointing day out after a promising first half. Did anyone else think that we didn't seem as fit/sharp as Clare . Definitely faded and a few Waterford lads stretching limbs towards the end.

Maurice was turned upside at one stage and was hobbling for a bit - he wasn't the same after that.

The ref didn't help after the 4 wides at the start of the 2nd half - gave Clare a few dubious frees to bring them level and change the momentum , we never got back on top after that.

Thought he was ery nice to ye in the 1st half and extremely nice to us in the 2nd. We got one or two very dodge calls at important stages

Hidalgo · 03-06-2013 10:57am

glick6 wrote: »

Agree on Nagle. I honestly thought he was immense. Bricks man scored 4 from play. He was caught badly in possession twice. To say he was the second best player on the pitch is, in my opinion, wrong. I would say Shane O'Sullivan and Noel Connors were way ahead of Brick. Jake Dillon and Maurice were good in patches. Maurice definitely looked to be carrying a knock second half may be why he faded.

Brick held the middle and his man roamed, doing that Kelly is always going to score.
I thought Brick hurled an amount of ball, although he wasted a few (and he's a man that wastes nothing

Mr Tibbs · 03-06-2013 11:41am

Hidalgo wrote: »

Thought he was ery nice to ye in the 1st half and extremely nice to us in the 2nd. We got one or two very dodge calls at important stages

First of well done to Clare on the second half performance outscoring us by 2.12 to 6 points. The Ref was appalling at times in this game but when you are beaten by 8 points there is no excuse. I thought we needed to score 3 or 4 more points in the second half to put the seeds of doubt in a young Clare team but when we started missing scorable frees and scores from play, five one after the other straight after half time it was like giving scores to Clare. I could not believe how unfit Waterford looked in the second half, it was like someone had given them sleeping tablets in the dressing room. When Clare got within 2 points of us I thought we were in trouble and we did not have any player good enough to haul us back into the game as Clare rose to the challenge and we faded badly for the remainder of the second half. Davy had his team in great condition as he always had us when he was here so go on now and win your next match you are more than good enough and now that you have a big monkey off you backs this young team will only grow in cinfidence.
Where this leaves us I'm afraid to say it looks like a big slide backwards. The only redeeming factor about yesterday's defeat is we still have the back door to try and get back into the All-Ireland series. No team will fear us now and the managment have to take the blame for the way this team faded yesterday. We were going very well in the first half after a shaky start but that second half display was a throwback to Waterford of old who would just give up when a team came at them. I dont know how their going to solve the goalkeeping position as SOK must feel demoralized standing on the sideline watching puckout after pockout going out over the sideline as Iggy just cant handle championship pressure. I felt sorry for the lads walking off the field as they did not expect this to happen and neither did I but these things hapen and at least we live to fight another day. Big difference between challenge matches and championship, they are only poor practice and nothing should ever be taken from them.

robopaddy · 03-06-2013 1:42pm

An Rinn final in the senior football comortas peile live on TG4 at 3.30 against Donegal oppostion. Best of luck to them fly the deise flag proudly lads

Deise_2012 · 03-06-2013 4:50pm

Was Iggy really performing that bad that Michael Ryan got SOK to warm up? I was in the terrace for the 2nd half so couldn't see too much of what he was doing wrong. I remember 1 puck out to jake dollon that went out over the sideline but nothing else stands out really

deisefolife · 03-06-2013 6:40pm

we were beaten by the better fitter team. nothing else.

fair play to clear. i wouldn't be grudge them the win.

and ill go all out for them for the rest of the Munster Championship.

they have being in a dark place the past few years. be nice to see them get to a Munster final and maybe win it.

PTH2009 · 03-06-2013 7:41pm

it will be weird if we were to draw a strong team (Dublin/Offaly or Wexford) in the prem round and get beaten.

our summer will be over by the 22nd June

I can see us drawing Antrim at home in the prem round and then play Wexford away in phase 1.

Straight Talker · 03-06-2013 7:52pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

it will be weird if we were to draw a strong team (Dublin/Offaly or Wexford) in the prem round and get beaten.

our summer will be over by the 22nd June

I can see us drawing Antrim at home in the prem round and then play Wexford away in phase 1.

Waterford are a good bit better than Dublin Offaly and Wexford.Waterford gave away two sloppy goals yesterday and the younger forwards don't seem to be ready for championship hurling yet.It was Clares fitness that got them through.Their finishing games very well this year.

PTH2009 · 03-06-2013 8:02pm

for munster championship games are there really any need for designated seats in the stands.

I think they should just sell Old stand tickets/new stand tickets and you can sit where ever is available.

Yesterday i could sit almost anywhere in section 207 of the old stand

robopaddy · 03-06-2013 8:04pm

What changes do people see being made the next day? There arent too many other options really so depleted is the squad. Normally when we get beat we have plenty excuses about such and such a person will be back the next day. This time though there isnt really anyone to come back. Shane Walsh the only one I can think of of any note. SOK will probably come back in maybe shane fives aswell but other than I cant really see any scope to freshen it up/change it around

Professey Chin · 03-06-2013 8:05pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

for munster championship games are there really any need for designated seats in the stands.

I think they should just sell Old stand tickets/new stand tickets and you can sit where ever is available.

Yesterday i could sit almost anywhere in section 207 of the old stand

No need for them but theyll always be there. GAA, county boards, club chairmen etc all love giving the best tickets to their friends

PTH2009 · 03-06-2013 8:13pm

all the teams in the draw will be praying for a trip to London

doz · 03-06-2013 8:15pm

robopaddy wrote: »

What changes do people see being made the next day? There arent too many other options really so depleted is the squad. Normally when we get beat we have plenty excuses about such and such a person will be back the next day. This time though there isnt really anyone to come back. Shane Walsh the only one I can think of of any note. SOK will probably come back in maybe shane fives aswell but other than I cant really see any scope to freshen it up/change it around

I think the changes you have noted above will all be made, assuming Shane Walsh and Shane Fives are both fit. On the topic of Shane Walsh, what is the story with him? Someone suggested to me after the game yesterday that he was nowhere near fit and was only on the bench to make up the numbers.

Brian O'Halloran may yet be out depending on the seriousness of his injury. I'm not sure if I would go with Ray Barry again if that is the case, maybe Martin O'Neill might be worth a start, offers a bit more of a physical threat?

Poor and all as yesterday's result was, there is no reason why we should not be confident of beating all the sides in the preliminary and phase 1.

Deise Hurler · 03-06-2013 8:33pm

robopaddy wrote: »

What changes do people see being made the next day? There arent too many other options really so depleted is the squad. Normally when we get beat we have plenty excuses about such and such a person will be back the next day. This time though there isnt really anyone to come back. Shane Walsh the only one I can think of of any note. SOK will probably come back in maybe shane fives aswell but other than I cant really see any scope to freshen it up/change it around

Forwards need to be beefed up. Hopefully Shane Walsh will be back and Seamus is left on the 40. Maurice done well yesterday when played in full forward but we need his ballwinning ability in the half forward line. On the other wing we need another ball winner and paudie mahony was very much a passenger yesterday. Darragh Fives could be an option here. Although he has played mostly as a back during his career, when Tourin won the junior county championship he was wing forward and was excellent. Jake Dillon in one corner and Jamie Barron in the other. Kevin Moran to midfield. Tony wing back if he is still up to it, if not paudie pender. Shane Fives in the corner and SOK back on the goal. Lots of changes but i think thats a stronger team than yesterdays team.

Jarjohn · 03-06-2013 8:35pm

Poor and all as yesterday's result was, there is no reason why we should not be confident of beating all the sides in the preliminary and phase 1

I would be worried about drawing Wexford or Offaly if there is anything produced like the performance yesterday. Asked the question earlier in the week about too many players that had to prove themselves and so it was. Only hope is that the game will be something to learn from and improve on. Quarter final place still on the cards but I would be very, very wary of the qualifiers. Young fellas up front will improve in time but the firepower thats needed is just not there at the moment

PTH2009 · 03-06-2013 8:48pm

is Ritchie Foley injured ?

doz · 03-06-2013 8:54pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

is Ritchie Foley injured ?

He has had a re-occurence of the hip injury that sidelined him last year and as far as I know he will miss the entire Championship.

KevIRL · 03-06-2013 9:56pm

robopaddy wrote: »

What changes do people see being made the next day? There arent too many other options really so depleted is the squad. Normally when we get beat we have plenty excuses about such and such a person will be back the next day. This time though there isnt really anyone to come back. Shane Walsh the only one I can think of of any note. SOK will probably come back in maybe shane fives aswell but other than I cant really see any scope to freshen it up/change it around

Shane Walsh and Shane Fives if fit, probably SOK but hate chopping and changing keeper, Martin O Neill also possible as the front 6 needs some sort of shake up - Gary Hurney obviously (for tomkelly99's pal)

Chinpool wrote: »

No need for them but theyll always be there. GAA, county boards, club chairmen etc all love giving the best tickets to their friends

Season ticket holders tend to get very good seats as well, everywhere apart from Pairc Ui Caoimh that is

PTH2009 wrote: »

all the teams in the draw will be praying for a trip to London

I wouldnt think so really, its hardly that exotic a destination anymore, especially given how they will have to be training hard and probably flying straight back after the game, bit of a nuisance really with the travel involved. New York might be different but not London, I'd say they'd prefer a home game or even the short trip to Carlow

ManFromCheese · 03-06-2013 10:04pm

desperate stuff yesterday. have said it all along bout scully, the man is clueless and the sooner hes gone the better, hes doing nothing for Waterford hurling.

Mountainlad · 03-06-2013 10:16pm

KevIRL wrote: »

@ML, nice write up and I would agree with a lot of what you said. I wouldnt though agree though with citing our forwards as a positive. Even if they all got scores from play I felt that throughout the game we were carrying at least 3 of the 6 forwards, Paudie was very poor throughout, Jamie Barron likewise and Ray Barry never got into the game after coming on early. Maurice showed what a threat he can be in the first half but faded badly in the second, perhaps struggling with an injury, but he was badly caught for pace and a lack of awareness late on in the game. Jake and Seamus both had good games

I dont want to be too critical cause like you said we are in a period of transition and have been hit with injuries, but I hope some good level of target practise can be arranged for the lads before the next game.

I'm not saying they all played really well or anything, I was more just trying to draw what positives we can from their performance. And that the two debutants have gotten off the mark is certainly a plus in my book. To me, Jamie Barron actually got on a decent amount of ball in the first half yesterday. His shot selection was poor, but I didn't think he was that bad. Didn't see it in the second half, but neither did Jake Dillon really. Neither have an aerial presence so if the half forward line is being killed then they won't be in the game. Paudi Mahony took a good score and played two great passes to Dillon in the first half but I agree he didn't pose much of a threat.

But I would like to highlight the fact that Dillon and Barron are both 19. When you look at the 4 u21s Clare had out, Shane O'Donnell was anonymous for practically the whole game (got a goal, took it well but really it should never have happened), Colm Galvin was outplayed for most of it, he got two great scores when the match was over but sure that doesn't tell you anything about a player. Seadna Morey was taken off, probably wasn't right to begin with given there was doubts about him starting. Tony Kelly was really the only one that stood out, Peter Duggan was cleaned by Nagle when he came on. So I think it would be a bit much to be too harsh and expectant of Dillon (most people are praising him in fairness) Barry and Barron. More is expected of Mahony for sure.

They have a lot to learn but I think the qualifiers might actually be a blessing in disguise in that sense. If they make a quarter final they'll have 5 games, compared to three last year (and 2010) and 4 in 2009 and 2011.

KevIRL · 03-06-2013 10:38pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'm not saying they all played really well or anything, I was more just trying to draw what positives we can from their performance. And that the two debutants have gotten off the mark is certainly a plus in my book. To me, Jamie Barron actually got on a decent amount of ball in the first half yesterday. His shot selection was poor, but I didn't think he was that bad. Didn't see it in the second half, but neither did Jake Dillon really. Neither have an aerial presence so if the half forward line is being killed then they won't be in the game. Paudi Mahony took a good score and played two great passes to Dillon in the first half but I agree he didn't pose much of a threat.

But I would like to highlight the fact that Dillon and Barron are both 19. When you look at the 4 u21s Clare had out, Shane O'Donnell was anonymous for practically the whole game (got a goal, took it well but really it should never have happened), Colm Galvin was outplayed for most of it, he got two great scores when the match was over but sure that doesn't tell you anything about a player. Seadna Morey was taken off, probably wasn't right to begin with given there was doubts about him starting. Tony Kelly was really the only one that stood out, Peter Duggan was cleaned by Nagle when he came on. So I think it would be a bit much to be too harsh and expectant of Dillon (most people are praising him in fairness) Barry and Barron. More is expected of Mahony for sure.

They have a lot to learn but I think the qualifiers might actually be a blessing in disguise in that sense. If they make a quarter final they'll have 5 games, compared to three last year (and 2010) and 4 in 2009 and 2011.

Agree with all of the above, its just when 3 of the 6 are having a bit of a stinker it really puts too much pressure on the rest.

I'm not too downbeat after Sunday, its a big old rebuild, and hopefully a nice run through the qualifiers will follow, really hoping for a favourable preliminary round draw though, and definitely would prefer us to be playing than getting the bye, the sooner the team can get back out on the field the better imo

Cake Man · 03-06-2013 10:45pm

Disappointing about Sunday but a few games in the qualifiers I don't think would do us any harm tbh. More games under the belts of Barron, Dillon, Fives, O'Halloran wouldn't be a bad thing.
I know the league is different but the games we played in it have showed there is plenty of fight in us and that there's a least one big game in us. We should be able to negociate the first round or two and get the confidence up, particularly the forwards who should be able to rack up a big score against the likes of Antrim, Carlow etc. After that, it'll probably be similar to 08, where the next game is a step up from the last (Antrim->Offaly->Wexford->Tipp->KK) so that helps build momentum assuming we win and get through.
Down but not out is the message really, the 1/4's should still definately be the target and it would be kinda disappointing not to get there tbh.

When is the draw for the qualifiers and who could we be playing? What could our path potentially be? I'm guessing something like Antrim-Wexford/Offaly-Limerick/Cork-1/4 final?

Mr Tibbs · 03-06-2013 10:47pm

Well its the qualifer route we have to take now after our loss yesterday and its a lot better than the straight knockout that we used to have up to '98. I wonder what kind of attendence will these games get as yesderday was one of the poorest crowd's I have seen for a long time. Money is tight with everybody and an awful lot choose to watch the game on television . At least we will get a few home games which I hope wont be priced to high because people will not come. It was a real culture shock to walk through the square before the game and see it so empty. We have had some great days following the games all aroud the country I would love to think they will return again.

deisefolife · 03-06-2013 11:05pm

ManFromCheese wrote: »

desperate stuff yesterday. have said it all along bout scully, the man is clueless and the sooner hes gone the better, hes doing nothing for Waterford hurling.

jesus will ye stop with this sh1t,

after this year his contract is up,

so if the Co board want him gone or decides the matter himself.

until then stop b1tching about it

ManFromCheese · 03-06-2013 11:12pm

deisefolife wrote: »

jesus will ye stop with this sh1t,

after this year his contract is up,

so if the Co board want him gone or decides the matter himself.

until then stop b1tching about it

this is an open forum and I can express my opinion if I want to. by the way, I don't think intercounty mangers get contracts!!!!

KevIRL · 03-06-2013 11:17pm

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

Well its the qualifer route we have to take now after our loss yesterday and its a lot better than the straight knockout that we used to have up to '98. I wonder what kind of attendence will these games get as yesderday was one of the poorest crowd's I have seen for a long time. Money is tight with everybody and an awful lot choose to watch the game on television . At least we will get a few home games which I hope wont be priced to high because people will not come. It was a real culture shock to walk through the square before the game and see it so empty. We have had some great days following the games all aroud the country I would love to think they will return again.

Been the same for the last few years now. Attendance was 2k lower in 2010. We drove into the square and parked at 3.15 yesterday. People don't have the disposable cash for it anymore. The sooner home/away arrangements come in for all games except Munster final the better

KevIRL · 03-06-2013 11:20pm

Cake Man wrote: »

Disappointing about Sunday but a few games in the qualifiers I don't think would do us any harm tbh. More games under the belts of Barron, Dillon, Fives, O'Halloran wouldn't be a bad thing.
I know the league is different but the games we played in it have showed there is plenty of fight in us and that there's a least one big game in us. We should be able to negociate the first round or two and get the confidence up, particularly the forwards who should be able to rack up a big score against the likes of Antrim, Carlow etc. After that, it'll probably be similar to 08, where the next game is a step up from the last (Antrim->Offaly->Wexford->Tipp->KK) so that helps build momentum assuming we win and get through.
Down but not out is the message really, the 1/4's should still definately be the target and it would be kinda disappointing not to get there tbh.

When is the draw for the qualifiers and who could we be playing? What could our path potentially be? I'm guessing something like Antrim-Wexford/Offaly-Limerick/Cork-1/4 final?

We could be playing any one of 6 Leinster teams in the qualifier prelim phase or we could get a bye. The opposition could be as 'weak' as London or as strong as Kilkenny. Unlikely to be the cats tbf but still an outside chance right now. Draw next Sunday

Motivator · 03-06-2013 11:48pm

The performance yesterday was on the cards for a long time. Different team from last year but unfortunately the same result. We can't expect to win games only scoring 1-15, that wouldn't be enough to win a football match these days.

One worrying thing about the team is the difference in size of our lads compared to players of the same age from tipp, cork & Clare. The tipp young lads are like monsters & mullane came out & said it last week he couldn't compete against the likes of pauric maher or jackie tyrell. Older & more experienced players will eat the likes of Barron & pauric Mahony alive. They're class hurlers but just aren't physical enough unfortunately. If Waterford play cork, tipp or kk then they will struggle to even score 1-15 that's a fact. Until the likes of Barron, Dillon & Mahony become physically bigger then Waterford haven't a chance of even competing in the championship. They are undoubtedly great talents & would have more skill than most forwards on show, the only problem is skill won't ey you through games like it did 10+ years ago. Look at mullane when he first came into the Waterford team. He weighed about 9 stone but with less relience on physicallity back then he got away with it & his game developed naturally. Like I said, he found himself unable to compete with the likes of tyrell & paidi maher. Mullane was never able to compete in the air as he wasn't physical enough, he learned to develop his game around this & used his pace to win ball.

I'd say write this year off now & start building for next year straight away, leave the lads that are there now play the rest of this summers games to get some experience & hopefully win a few games.

fricatus · 04-06-2013 5:55am

When's the draw for the preliminary rounds? Presumably after the Leinster QFs next weekend?

I also hope we get one of the weaker teams, rather than a bye. It would be good to steady the ship with a win under our belts

Horseboxhead · 04-06-2013 7:27am

Afar more worrying this was the way the intermediates /U21 side got dismantled by the intermediate/u21 side from clare, When the senior players from both side drop back into this code then clare will have the same amount returing as we will , and they spanked us Roll on the u-21's , Jesus.

Black Suir · 04-06-2013 7:53am

doz wrote: »

He has had a re-occurence of the hip injury that sidelined him last year and as far as I know he will miss the entire Championship.

He is back playing. Went on as a sub in Abbeyside's last championship game but not up to the required standard yet.

Black Suir · 04-06-2013 7:59am

KevIRL wrote: »

Been the same for the last few years now. Attendance was 2k lower in 2010. We drove into the square and parked at 3.15 yesterday. People don't have the disposable cash for it anymore. The sooner home/away arrangements come in for all games except Munster final the better

Munster Council to look at things according to Liz Reddy on the 8-30am Sports News on WLR. No harm in that. Munster Council Chiefs, of which we have two in this county are still living in Celtic Tiger times. They may have good jobs or retired from good jobs and have a good pension (plus free tickets - I guess to games), but we are not all in that boat.

KevIRL · 04-06-2013 8:04am

fricatus wrote: »

When's the draw for the preliminary rounds? Presumably after the Leinster QFs next weekend?

I also hope we get one of the weaker teams, rather than a bye. It would be good to steady the ship with a win under our belts

Yep, It will be next Sunday, either after the KK/Offaly game or perhaps in the evening on The Sunday Game

deisefolife · 04-06-2013 8:12am

ManFromCheese wrote: »

this is an open forum and I can express my opinion if I want to. by the way, I don't think intercounty mangers get contracts!!!!

jesus the whole country knows your opinion at this stage.

robopaddy · 04-06-2013 8:41am

ManFromCheese wrote: »

desperate stuff yesterday. have said it all along bout scully, the man is clueless and the sooner hes gone the better, hes doing nothing for Waterford hurling.

I think you should look at the bigger picture.

This is a list of players that werent available for last Sunday, for one reason or another he has lost since he came in as manager.

Adrian Power - Opted out/travelling
Stephen Daniels - Injured
Shane Fives - Injured
Declan Prendergast - Retired
Eoin Madigan - Injured
Richie Foley - Injured
Wayne Hutchison - Opted out
Philip Mahony - Opted out/travelling
David O'Sullivan - Opted out/work commitments
Eoin McGrath - Retired
Eoin Kelly - Retired
Stephen Molumphy - Tour of duty
John Mullane - Retired
Shane Walsh - Injured

Thats the guts of a full team. I mean come on the hand hes been dealt since he came in as manager has been pretty s****e. We are a small county and strength in depth was tight enough as it was. to be fair he has never once used having a depleted squad as an excuse as a lot of managers do, as he wants to instill belief in the young lads.

I think he is being used by the county board as they know its a period of transition and were not going to win much the next couple of years anyway so they didnt see the point in forking out huge cash to bring in a big name manager. Its so easy to come here and just publicly slate the guy just because of a personal hunch without having much substance or reasoning behind your argument.

chainsawman · 04-06-2013 10:58am

Was shocking to see the boys got hammered by Clare last sunday, Fair play to Clare with their young team, the one to watch for All Ireland this year and this decade. Glad for Davy Fitz too, always remembered his wonderful work for us. Waterford will take that loss as a lesson learned, they have to pull up their socks to whoever they play next. I don't expect them in the quarter final this year, give the boss a chance to build the team for the next few years. Remember that Rome wasn't build in a day.

Mountainlad · 04-06-2013 12:37pm

Horseboxhead wrote: »

Afar more worrying this was the way the intermediates /U21 side got dismantled by the intermediate/u21 side from clare, When the senior players from both side drop back into this code then clare will have the same amount returing as we will , and they spanked us Roll on the u-21's , Jesus.

Steady on. I count 6 u21s (including the keeper) from the Clare starting intermediate team (compared to 13 for Waterford) though they did bring on more u21s off the bench, including Cathal O Connell who was prominent last year in the u21 game between the counties. Colin Dunford would have been in that Waterford team but he's gone for the summer with injury I think.

From the Senior team Clare started with 4 u21s, Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin, Seadna Morey and Shane O'Donnell. Peter Duggan came on, and Podge Collins was listed to start whether he did come on or not I can't remember. Conor Ryan, also listed to start for the Seniors, would appear to be overage for u21 this year. Don't have a programme on hand so I can't tell you who else was on the bench for them that is u21 this year. I know Aaron Cunningham was a good minor and scored in the u21 game last year, but he picked up a bad injury in the league game in February so not sure what the status is on him at the moment.

From our Senior team that started, we have Paudie Prender, Darragh Fives, Paudie Mahony, Jake Dillon and Jamie Barron (5) that started. Ray Barry and Gavin O Brien also came on.

Also, Donie Breathnach was playing for An Rinn at the weekend and I would consider him a good addition to the u21 team. Eoin Madigan probably won't be fit enough in time to get a start on that team.

Clare will be deserving favourites for that game but there's a good u21 team there in Waterford, I think Queally will have them ready and we also have home advantage. Bad form to be writing your own off at this stage.

Mr Tibbs · 04-06-2013 12:47pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Steady on. I count 6 u21s (including the keeper) from the Clare starting intermediate team (compared to 13 for Waterford) though they did bring on more u21s off the bench, including Cathal O Connell who was prominent last year in the u21 game between the counties. Colin Dunford would have been in that Waterford team but he's gone for the summer with injury I think.

From the Senior team Clare started with 4 u21s, Tony Kelly, Colm Galvin, Seadna Morey and Shane O'Donnell. Peter Duggan came on, and Podge Collins was listed to start whether he did come on or not I can't remember. Conor Ryan, also listed to start for the Seniors, would appear to be overage for u21 this year. Don't have a programme on hand so I can't tell you who else was on the bench for them that is u21 this year. I know Aaron Cunningham was a good minor and scored in the u21 game last year, but he picked up a bad injury in the league game in February so not sure what the status is on him at the moment.

From our Senior team that started, we have Paudie Prender, Darragh Fives, Paudie Mahony, Jake Dillon and Jamie Barron (5) that started. Ray Barry and Gavin O Brien also came on.

Also, Donie Breathnach was playing for An Rinn at the weekend and I would consider him a good addition to the u21 team. Eoin Madigan probably won't be fit enough in time to get a start on that team.

Clare will be deserving favourites for that game but there's a good u21 team there in Waterford, I think Queally will have them ready and we also have home advantage. Bad form to be writing your own off at this stage.

Yes that was a very disheartening game to get hamered in but did anyone notice when the Clare team were leaving the field Queally had the lads doing a few paces down by the Killinan end of the field and was giving them a good talking too. I noticed this as a very good sign, lets hope so.

hardybuck · 04-06-2013 1:25pm

robopaddy wrote: »

I think you should look at the bigger picture.

This is a list of players that werent available for last Sunday, for one reason or another he has lost since he came in as manager.

Adrian Power - Opted out/travelling
Stephen Daniels - Injured
Shane Fives - Injured
Declan Prendergast - Retired
Eoin Madigan - Injured
Richie Foley - Injured
Wayne Hutchison - Opted out
Philip Mahony - Opted out/travelling
David O'Sullivan - Opted out/work commitments
Eoin McGrath - Retired
Eoin Kelly - Retired
Stephen Molumphy - Tour of duty
John Mullane - Retired
Shane Walsh - Injured

Thats the guts of a full team. I mean come on the hand hes been dealt since he came in as manager has been pretty s****e. We are a small county and strength in depth was tight enough as it was. to be fair he has never once used having a depleted squad as an excuse as a lot of managers do, as he wants to instill belief in the young lads.

I think he is being used by the county board as they know its a period of transition and were not going to win much the next couple of years anyway so they didnt see the point in forking out huge cash to bring in a big name manager. Its so easy to come here and just publicly slate the guy just because of a personal hunch without having much substance or reasoning behind your argument.

I'm going to pull you up on one point there - in 2012 he must have mentioned a couple of dozen times that he was missing players through injury and being unavailable. He's definitely mentioned it this year a few times as well.

Overall, I think he's doing a reasonable job with the resources he has available. Some of the players you've mentioned above are long gone and would add little to the team though.

Depending on how the year continues from here, I think he deserves another year in the job after this one. The young players could benefit from some stability, and it's not as if there is a long list of talented alternatives waiting to replace him either.

Waterford have a big job ahead of them in order to rebuild, and supporters may have to simply accept that we mightn't see teams like the 00's again for some time. As long as we can maintain our current level competitiveness as a minimum, and not turn into an Offaly or Wexford, we're probably doing quite well.

thesaturdayman · 04-06-2013 1:59pm

lets all get our rose tinted glasses off here and deal some straight shooting facts.

we were out hurled, out ran, out thought and more importantly and most worryingly OUTFOUGHT by clare sunday. wides is a load of rubbish if the game went on another 15 mins we would have been annihilated!

scully ryan has singled handedly caused one of the biggest exoduses from waterford hurling since prior to ww2. players and selectors alike wouldnt touch him with a barge pole he is totally inept and not up to a job of this magnitude. can someone please outline to me what his biggest hurling achievement was be it club or county? DLS doesnt count as he was nearly fired mid season (see when bgunner oblitered dls in walsh park) and finally ran out of there even when they won a munster club.

mullane & kelly should still be on the panel ala like of martin comerford and michael kavanagh in the latter years with kk. that comes down to man management this bs of a young team etc. the avr age of clare team was considerably lower then waterfords on sunday. the problem we had was when some of the younger lads werent doing it i.e. barron we had nothing to replace them with.

our hurling is gone back a ton too i have never seen our more prominent men like brick, moran, sullivan all being hooked so much skill levels have disimproved substantially also. it is obvious that the team has gone back loads on a reasonable league campaign anyone thinking we will win a game outside of laois, antrim, carlow and possibly wexford this season is dillusional.

scully and his mob need to be gotten out sooner rather then later for the betterment of waterford hurling its gone on long enough now this charade of progress. progress isnt about "bringing on the young lads" waterford did this in 1992 if u can all remember what happened then? progress is about winning games and conditioning and improving what you have.

we are back to the classic old waterford looking for excuses before we take to the field the man is incompetent and show me what justified this appointment on his cv please? bar the tag "cheap"

deiseach · 04-06-2013 2:20pm

thesaturdayman wrote: »

can someone please outline to me what his biggest hurling achievement was be it club or county? DLS doesnt count as he was nearly fired mid season (see when bgunner oblitered dls in walsh park) and finally ran out of there even when they won a munster club.

After reading this twisted line of reasoning, I stopped reading.

seananigans · 04-06-2013 2:25pm

thesaturdayman wrote: »

we are back to the classic old waterford looking for excuses before we take to the field the man is incompetent and show me what justified this appointment on his cv please? bar the tag "cheap"

He has an All Ireland winning pedigree in several codes over 4 decades, no other Waterford man has as many All Ireland's as him, or likely ever will

robopaddy · 04-06-2013 2:38pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I'm going to pull you up on one point there - in 2012 he must have mentioned a couple of dozen times that he was missing players through injury and being unavailable. He's definitely mentioned it this year a few times as well.

Overall, I think he's doing a reasonable job with the resources he has available. Some of the players you've mentioned above are long gone and would add little to the team though.

Depending on how the year continues from here, I think he deserves another year in the job after this one. The young players could benefit from some stability, and it's not as if there is a long list of talented alternatives waiting to replace him either.

Waterford have a big job ahead of them in order to rebuild, and supporters may have to simply accept that we mightn't see teams like the 00's again for some time. As long as we can maintain our current level competitiveness as a minimum, and not turn into an Offaly or Wexford, we're probably doing quite well.

I mean as in making an excuse out of it. I know he has acknowldged that he has a depleted squad but to be fair I think he hasnt tried to make it as an excuse for losing games etc. he has given the lads there the respect that they deserve and has just got on with the job as best he can in a positive manner. The previous managers had an embarrassment of riches (and I include Davy Fitz in that) compared to what scully has at his disposal and a lot of people would do well to remember that.

But Im actually going to contradict myself and disagree that he should get another term, barring a massive turnaround in performances and a surprise run to an AI semi final or something. I think he has done a reasonable job since he came in, regaining 1A status has been a good achievement. I think given the limited resources he dosent really have much more to offer anyway.

But definetly needs to be cut some slack with regard to some of the ridiculous comments by posters above

deisedude · 04-06-2013 3:00pm

Michael Ryan has no option but to play a load of young lads because most of the senior forwards are gone. Its going to take time for it to come together at Senior level. Clare were well off the pace 2-3 years ago when all they had was young lads. Basically what happened in the noughties was a fluke, that an exceptional bunch or hurlers came through with no underage pedigree at all. Year on year we are seeing promising young forwards at underage and it will come good.

Certainly Michael Ryan isn't faultless but some of the criticism being levelled at him is just scapegoating

Hidalgo · 04-06-2013 3:06pm

deisedude wrote: »

Michael Ryan has no option but to play a load of young lads because most of the senior forwards are gone. Its going to take time for it to come together at Senior level. Clare were well off the pace 2-3 years ago when all they had was young lads. Basically what happened in the noughties was a fluke, that an exceptional bunch or hurlers came through with no underage pedigree at all. Year on year we are seeing promising young forwards at underage and it will come good.

Certainly Michael Ryan isn't faultless but some of the criticism being levelled at him is just scapegoating

The comparison with Clare is a fairly accurate one, although we have All Irelands at 21s, there's still some very talented young hurlers coming through in Waterford. It takes time for these lads to find their feet at the top level, the step up from U21 is huge.

I'd prefer to see a 20 yr old play than some one who'll be retired in a year or 2 if both players are of equal skill, speed etc.
Realistically it's whoever comes in after Michael Ryan that will reap the benefit of the blooding process.

Mountainlad · 04-06-2013 4:46pm

Can we not just leave Eoin Kelly out of this? Like he's retired, going well with Passage, I hate to have to seem like I'm being disrespectful towards him by being critical but if people (even though it's too much of a regular thing) decide to bring it up then what can you do?

It was clear last year to everyone (and obviously Eoin himself given his decision to retire) that he could no longer contribute on the field of play at inter-county level.

And really, your only fooling yourself if you think having him on the panel when he's not going to play would be a positive thing for Waterford or any other team.

thesaturdayman · 04-06-2013 5:41pm

ladies football and......?

the gulf in ladies sports is quite clear and obvious ladies senior teams play club and weaker minor county teams in challenge games.... uncomparable imo

thesaturdayman · 04-06-2013 5:42pm

top scorer in waterford club champ last year and this so far afaik... still only 31-32 look i know there is a lot of issues in terms of baggage and attitude but that is down to management that is my point about ryan. he cant manage!!

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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