Preview Thread -RaboDirect Pro12 Final - RDS, 25th May, 1645 - live on RTE2/TG4/BBCNI

TheGoldenAges · 26-05-2013 10:25am

Some game, some atmosphere, delighted I got a ticket at the last minute. I just wish we could have two Irish teams in the final all the time. Doubt the Scots or the Welsh could make an occasion quite as special as that

Swiwi · 26-05-2013 10:39am

molloyjh wrote: »

Wonderful day out yesterday. Cracking weather, top class atmosphere, a fine game of rugby and the right result. I thought Lacey was a bit too quick to blow up at the breakdown in the first half in particular. He seemed to ease off a bit in the second, but not sure if that was him or just the sides adjusting to him. The difference in the first 10-15 seemed to be where Leinster conceded their penalties compared to where Ulster did. Didn't see the scrum on the Leinster line properly that seems to have caused a fuss. But in the few hits before hand Court wasn't binding properly and that was ignored too. Thought our back row was excellent and Jenno fully deserved his MOTM. The guy has been in great form recently.

Had a great sing-song with a bunch of Ulster fans in Kielys afterwards and all the Ulster lads we met were absolutely sound. They were all packed onto a bus fairly early though. Would have made for a really great night if they could have stayed. We were talking to one who said he was really embarrassed about the noise for the Leinster kicks. It was very noticeable in the ground that there was a difference between the two sets of fans. He reckons there's been an increasing soccer element coming into Ulster rugby and its not going down well with a lot of them.

Anyway, well done to Leinster. Great way to say goodbye to the lads. That's every trophy available to Leinster in 2 seasons. That'll do nicely. Next up, the Lions.

The silence (as always) was very impressive. If he found the odd Ulster supporter too noisy, he ain't been to NZ yet - usually just a litany of invective on opposition kicks, it's cringeworthy at times. I found the 2 sets of fans pretty impeccable. Lacey got a fair slagging off though - one guy kept going on about Leinster buying the ref a €100 voucher for Grafton Street. It was funny the first time, not so much when he said it for the umpteenth.

Anyway, I got some ideas for chants to replace "All Blacks! All Blacks!" Haven't decided yet on "Come on you boys in black, come on you boys in black", or "Stand up for the Kiwi men", although I never really liked Go West, so probably the former...

Buer · 26-05-2013 10:46am

Irlandczyk wrote: »

Almost forgot about that. Jamie Hagan stole the show with his lovely dolphin dive.

Some really dumb penalties conceded yesterday. Hagan gets the gold medal. Henry the silver for kicking the ball out of Boss's hands and Healy the bronze for the "Leave it!" and then going for the ball on his own 22.

sydthebeat · 26-05-2013 10:54am

Buer wrote: »

Some really dumb penalties conceded yesterday. Hagan gets the gold medal. Henry the silver for kicking the ball out of Boss's hands and Healy the bronze for the "Leave it!" and then going for the ball on his own 22.

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

Buer · 26-05-2013 11:43am

sydthebeat wrote: »

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

I wouldn't be too harsh on that incident. No full back on the field and he got back quick enough to cover. I'd hold Healy more responsible for throwing a silly offload to nobody and costing Leinster 40m. If Madigan had released the ball it was a straight scramble between himself and a 6'3", 16 stone Lions winger for the ball with nobody between them and the try line.

andrewdcs · 26-05-2013 11:58am

Cracking game of rugby, fantastic for the league / NH standard bearers.

didnt have much probem with the refereeing, he was consistent in his desire to see the ball free at the breakdown, which I consider part and parcel of a quick game, letting the backlines play. That neither side really 'got it' for most of the first half is down to the themselves and the captains.

Searched the thread and didnt see much of it but Healy looked to get destroyed by Afoa, but watching replays looked like he was on his own against him, neither his lock or flanker (Toner and McLauglin I think?) looked to be really helping him out. Really odd.
Healy himself did a number on Afoa a couple of times later when he had support, so whats the deal with 2nd and back row and how much pressure they put on? Tactical to let the openside free to hit the 8?

andrewdcs · 26-05-2013 12:03pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

We thought Madigan and Bowe had been taking Modern Dance together.... very impressively executed Salmon Flip with twist....:pac:

CIARAN_BOYLE · 26-05-2013 12:04pm

Looking back on the game I am delighted with the result as a Leinster fan.

Have to worry that that might be the last trophy for a while. Four of yesterdays 23 won't be playing in Leinster colours next season and another two are entering what has to be their last season.

Hard luck to Ulster and the best of luck to you next season.

Buer · 26-05-2013 12:07pm

andrewdcs wrote: »

Healy himself did a number on Afoa a couple of times later when he had support, so whats the deal with 2nd and back row and how much pressure they put on? Tactical to let the openside free to hit the 8?

Indeed. I've seen a couple of comments that Healy was taken apart. He broke even certainly. There were a couple of scrums where Ulster were going backwards and had to clear the ball quickly. He certainly struggled early on and was having difficulty keeping his side up but managed it at the expense of going backwards. The first penalty given against our scrum on the 5m line was a complete coin toss as Court looked just as culpable as Ross.

Leinster's flankers were also quite loose as they looked for the jump on Williams. That actually worked out perfectly as Williams looked to pick it each time regardless of how the scrum was going and was pounced on by a combination of Boss, McLaughlin and Jennings several times. There were a couple of scrums where Ulster actually lost yards after taking the ball from the base which is rarely seen.

awec · 26-05-2013 12:29pm

I think I've finally calmed down...

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 2:37pm

An absolutely brilliant day at the RDS (our RDS by the way... :pac:)

Jenno has been excellent all year, bar a horror show in Galway he's been incredibly consistent. Great player and leader. Was very impressed by how he stepped into the Tullow Tank role yesterday with some good first up carries.
Definitely deserved MOTM.

Elsewhere, thought Dev Toner really showed a snapshot of what he is. Incredible lineout and high ball operator, and had a good game, but his carrying really is some of the worst I've seen in the pro game, due to his height. That may sound a bit harsh, but I'd literally like to see him flopping straight away and setting up quick ball than taking the ball into contact. Just way, way too high.

Our backrow was great, totally outplayed Henry, Diack and Williams I thought, though Big Nick was typically strong with ball in hand.

Backs were a little less fluid than in recent times, thought BOD was surprisingly quiet, though MCF was excellent yet again. Great warrior.

Madigan isn't a 12, though picked some good lines. Would have liked to seen Goodman in there though. Watched him doing a warm up in the second half and the guy really is a beast. Huge man, almost back row size.

For Ulster, thought Olding did well. Bowe was his usual dangerous self, while Pienaar controlled everything.
As someone mentioned, there's a huge year coming up for Ulster. Muller, Afoa, Pienaar will all surely be gone at the end of next year (think I'm correct in saying that?). That's the heart of your team ripped out.
I had a bit of a bust up with Jackass earlier in the year about Jackson, and he was right. Despite what some may have said on here, myself included, he's not good enough yet. Would like to see him put him in with a lesser SH than Pienaar week in week out to prove his mettle.

Actually shed a tear when Isa, Joe and Johnny were sent off myself. That could have been the cans we brought in, our could have been the realisation that we may never see the likes of this Leinster team again. Matt O'Connor has a big job to do!

Finally, a special word for a minority of the Ulster fans. People have said on here before that booing is just a 'pantomime thing' that's done in Ravenhill. Some of the stuff going on yesterday was just football fan esque. Booing the kicker, shouting crap at Johnny, booing the Leinster team coming out etc.

Ulster support was great in general, and great craic, but jaysus, some really let the side down with that crap. Not nice.

By god it is sweet to end the season with a treble though! After 65 minutes in the Aviva against Clermont in December I would have certainly taken that. Love this fecking team.

trouttrout · 26-05-2013 2:39pm

Agree re: Madigan not being a 12, and certainly not one in the way he's being used. An example that Schmidt is human after all

Very frustrating seeing him take on three or four crash balls that would have been bread and butter to Goodman

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 2:41pm

trouttrout wrote: »

Agree re: Madigan not being a 12, and certainly not one in the way he's being used. An example that Schmidt is human after all

Very frustrating seeing him take on three or four crash balls that would have been bread and butter to Goodman

I don't know about how he's being used in fairness. Most 12s these days need to take multiple crash balls in a game, that's just the role.

Just shows though how important Darcy is to us when fit, his leg drive is almost unmatched in the Irish game. Madigan looked very much a 10 playing 12. I reckon he'd even be better at 13 tbh.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 26-05-2013 3:58pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Just shows though how important Darcy is to us when fit, his leg drive is almost unmatched in the Irish game.

Mcfadden Marshall and Trimble come close

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2013 4:00pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Mcfadden Marshall and Trimble come close

And McSharry... and Downey in fairness

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 4:04pm

Hence why I said almost lads.

Darcy definitely top of that list for me.

Irlandczyk · 26-05-2013 4:19pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Looking back on the game I am delighted with the result as a Leinster fan.

Have to worry that that might be the last trophy for a while. Four of yesterdays 23 won't be playing in Leinster colours next season and another two are entering what has to be their last season.

Hard luck to Ulster and the best of luck to you next season.

Not so sure about that, even if we are 'in transition', I think there are a lot of quality players left in there for next season, and then after that, the youngsters of this year will have an extra season or two to step up. Can see us winning some silverware in BOD's last season for sure!

Heroditas · 26-05-2013 4:45pm

Enjoyable match, those last few minutes were far too close for comfort. You cold really tell how much it meant to the players when the final whistle blew.
Fantastic atmosphere, I was reminded of Croke Park in 2009 when I entered the RDS off Anglesea Road and was met with swarms of Ulster fans both on Anglesea Road and congregating behind the North Stand.
"Where the hell are all the Leinster fans?!" I asked my wife.we definitely knew something was up when we saw there wasn't a queue for the Eddie Rockets van only 20mins before the kick off. Presbyterians mustn't like that sort of food.

Naturally, we found the Leinster fans all down the far end of the ground.

Thought McFadden and Conway had good games and Toner was brilliant at the restarts and lineouts but had a poor day carrying ball into contact. The Ulster lads did a number on him and he wasn't as effective as he has been for the last few weeks. Still, he's a far better player than the beginning of the season and is now a firm regular (in my mind anyway) in the side.

No ned to say anything about the backrow, it's been said already. Jenno must have been wearing his Sean O'Brien underpants, what a performance and closely followed by Heaslip and McLaughlin. Such strength in depth.

I was sitting right in front of Diack's held-up try and Sexton came across very well to stop him. Couldn't believe it at the time and it actually looks an even bigger cock-up now that I've seen it on the TV. One of the biggest all-time bloopers. Still, in a way it was nice to stop a try there this time around, we can all remember that same corner of the pitch in the final last year.

Great send-off for the lads, thanks for the memories for what has been another fantastic season.

P.S. I've never seen so many drunken Ulster fans! Got accosted by two extremely merry Ulster women boarding their bus when we were heading back to our car after a drink in the Ho Sho and I ended up being relieved of my scarf and flag (fleg)!!!

bilston · 26-05-2013 4:55pm

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

An absolutely brilliant day at the RDS (our RDS by the way... :pac:)

Jenno has been excellent all year, bar a horror show in Galway he's been incredibly consistent. Great player and leader. Was very impressed by how he stepped into the Tullow Tank role yesterday with some good first up carries.
Definitely deserved MOTM.

Elsewhere, thought Dev Toner really showed a snapshot of what he is. Incredible lineout and high ball operator, and had a good game, but his carrying really is some of the worst I've seen in the pro game, due to his height. That may sound a bit harsh, but I'd literally like to see him flopping straight away and setting up quick ball than taking the ball into contact. Just way, way too high.

Our backrow was great, totally outplayed Henry, Diack and Williams I thought, though Big Nick was typically strong with ball in hand.

Backs were a little less fluid than in recent times, thought BOD was surprisingly quiet, though MCF was excellent yet again. Great warrior.

Madigan isn't a 12, though picked some good lines. Would have liked to seen Goodman in there though. Watched him doing a warm up in the second half and the guy really is a beast. Huge man, almost back row size.

For Ulster, thought Olding did well. Bowe was his usual dangerous self, while Pienaar controlled everything.
As someone mentioned, there's a huge year coming up for Ulster. Muller, Afoa, Pienaar will all surely be gone at the end of next year (think I'm correct in saying that?). That's the heart of your team ripped out.
I had a bit of a bust up with Jackass earlier in the year about Jackson, and he was right. Despite what some may have said on here, myself included, he's not good enough yet. Would like to see him put him in with a lesser SH than Pienaar week in week out to prove his mettle.

Actually shed a tear when Isa, Joe and Johnny were sent off myself. That could have been the cans we brought in, our could have been the realisation that we may never see the likes of this Leinster team again. Matt O'Connor has a big job to do!

Finally, a special word for a minority of the Ulster fans. People have said on here before that booing is just a 'pantomime thing' that's done in Ravenhill. Some of the stuff going on yesterday was just football fan esque. Booing the kicker, shouting crap at Johnny, booing the Leinster team coming out etc.

Ulster support was great in general, and great craic, but jaysus, some really let the side down with that crap. Not nice.

By god it is sweet to end the season with a treble though! After 65 minutes in the Aviva against Clermont in December I would have certainly taken that. Love this fecking team.

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

trouttrout · 26-05-2013 5:13pm

Ya, thought Jackson was very good yesterday

awec · 26-05-2013 5:17pm

I think its cause Jackson doesn't have the direct impact on our points total as other 10s.

i.e because he doesn't take our kicks.

Mahatma Geansai · 26-05-2013 5:17pm

bilston wrote: »

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

He doesn't really control a game (yet) like you'd want a 10 to do, but he is a very talented player; he has a lovely pass and a good eye for the break. At this stage he still needs a strong 9 beside him to take on much of the responsibility, but he should improve in time.

He gets a very rough time though; its completely unwarranted.

CatFromHue · 26-05-2013 5:18pm

I read "not good enough yet" in the context of Ireland honours, not Ulster.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 26-05-2013 5:32pm

awec wrote: »

I think its cause Jackson doesn't have the direct impact on our points total as other 10s.

i.e because he doesn't take our kicks.

Jackson is a good player but he is fortunate that he has a game managing 9(better than any IQ 9, especially at game managemnt) inside him and a 2nd five eights outside him. Its interesting that Ulster have 3 inside centres who are 2nd five eights types.

Anyway Jackson has help at 9 and 12 taking pressure off him and this causes a lot of people not to rate him as being as good as he is.

It doesn't mean he is a bad 10 just that his province uses him differently than other teams use their 10s.

Then there is the fact that he doesn't take kicks adding to issues. I'm sure he isn't a bad placekicker, Pienaar is just better and no disgrace to him because of that. Just there are a lot of people who don't know that much about Jackson that think because he doesn't kick he can't.

Anyway this leaves Jackson in some peoples views as a young 10 that can't placekick and needs a team designed around him to take care of game management. Its not true but some people think it is.

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 5:42pm

bilston wrote: »

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

Oh give over will you. 'South of the border' :rolleyes:

I didn't mention any problem with Jackson's play yesterday, he was fine.

However, when you compare his impact on the game to Sexton's it was minimal. Whether by design or otherwise, all of Ulster's play comes from 9, Jackson is very much a cog.

Despite the fact that Sexton wasn't great, and hasn't been his usual self since the announcement, he was still far more impactful than his opposing number.

Not a bad player, and should improve, but that wasn't the performance of an international 10.

With regards to kicking awec, from me anyway, that's incorrect. As you'll see from my earlier posts on Madigan I'm not from the traditional Irish school of thought that a 10 has to kick at all, so we can leave that aside.

And yes, I meant not good enough in terms of Ireland honours rather than Ulster.

If saying a player isn't international standard yet is 'completely unwarranted' then I'd love to see your thoughts on some of the posts that have gone on in this place this year.

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2013 5:44pm

Why on earth would you build your game around your 10 when you have Pienaar at 9?

Jackson was very good yesterday I thought.

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 5:44pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Jackson is a good player but he is fortunate that he has a game managing 9(better than any IQ 9, especially at game managemnt) inside him and a 2nd five eights outside him. Its interesting that Ulster have 3 inside centres who are 2nd five eights types.

Anyway Jackson has help at 9 and 12 taking pressure off him and this causes a lot of people not to rate him as being as good as he is.

It doesn't mean he is a bad 10 just that his province uses him differently than other teams use their 10s.

Then there is the fact that he doesn't take kicks adding to issues. I'm sure he isn't a bad placekicker, Pienaar is just better and no disgrace to him because of that. Just there are a lot of people who don't know that much about Jackson that think because he doesn't kick he can't.

Anyway this leaves Jackson in some peoples views as a young 10 that can't placekick and needs a team designed around him to take care of game management. Its not true but some people think it is.

I'd hope that's not referring to me, because that's not what I said or think.

shuffol · 26-05-2013 5:44pm

If Pienaar plays 9, he's going to be controlling a fair portion of the game irregardless of who the 10 is, doesnt necessarily imply that Jackson is unable to control a game.

jamiedav2011 · 26-05-2013 5:47pm

shuffol wrote: »

If Pienaar plays 9, he's going to be controlling a fair portion of the game irregardless of who the 10 is, doesnt necessarily imply that Jackson is unable to control a game.

It doesn't, but we haven't seen him do it yet, ergo my point that I don't believe he's good enough to be Irish 10 yet.

irishbucsfan · 26-05-2013 5:49pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

It doesn't, but we haven't seen him do it yet, ergo my point that I don't believe he's good enough to be Irish 10 yet.

Yeah we have seen him do it actually, the whole way up the underage ranks and when Pienaar is absent.

Do you not remember Ulster v. Munster earlier on in the year when he gave that young Cork fellah, Raymond O'Garmin or whatever his name is, a lesson in game management?

Preview Thread -RaboDirect Pro12 Final - RDS, 25th May, 1645 - live on RTE2/TG4/BBCNI

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