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Leicester Tigers v. Northampton Saints - Premiership Final

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    #92
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    toomevara wrote: »
    Was listening to it on BBC radio5 live. That was Brian Moore's/Matt Dawson's take on it. So if he's correct..but no I didn't actually see it myself.

    I think he swore at the ref, but the video evidence is far from conclusive because you can't see the ref, just him saying it, and he was looking down at Youngs I think it was, just before it.


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    #93
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think he swore at the ref, but the video evidence is far from conclusive because you can't see the ref, just him saying it, and he was looking down at Youngs I think it was, just before it.

    Ah Right, any ref link sounds or the like?

    This was Moore's comment btw:
    "It's Dylan Hartley's own fault.
    "Not only is it half-witted and wrong to talk to a referee like that but he doesn't know the rules of the game. Northampton kicked the ball straight out from a 22-drop-out which is completely stupid.
    "Yes, Leicester pushed early at that scrum and the referee fell for it but Hartley is captain and he let his team down. The referee clearly told him it was his last chance after earlier dissent and has had to follow that through."


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    #94
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    toomevara wrote: »
    Ah Right, any ref link sounds or the like?

    No you can't hear it at all and ESPN seemed happy to have shown the sound if they could! He definitely said ****ing cheat though. But I think he might get away with claiming he was saying it to Youngs.

    Especially given who will decide who he was saying it to. (Mark McCafferty etc.)


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    #95
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    But I think he might get away with claiming he was saying it to Youngs.

    Especially given who will decide who he was saying it to. (Mark McCafferty etc.)

    Bugger....


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    #96
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I didn't see the game so don't know for 100% but if Leicester had just gotten a penalty then Hartley could well be the Boy who cried Wolf!

    If he'd been warned for dissent earlier on in the game it could well be that he was calling a Leicester player a cheat but the ref having had him in his ear all game just presumed he was talking to him.


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    #97
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    If I remember right it was just after a scrum had gone down?


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    #98
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    I don't think the RFU can afford to cast a blind eye to this tbh. Would create far too much of a **** storm


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    #99
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    any videos of it up yet?


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    #100
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    No you can't hear it at all and ESPN seemed happy to have shown the sound if they could! He definitely said ****ing cheat though. But I think he might get away with claiming he was saying it to Youngs.

    Especially given who will decide who he was saying it to. (Mark McCafferty etc.)

    Wayne Barnes is an international ref with vast experience, if they refuse to back him in this this they will send out a message to all in rugby that the ref is fair to abuse and insult.

    Barnes is not some wet behind the ears newby trying to make a name for himself, hes not a ref to throw out cards willy nilly and is well used to high pressure situations.

    If he says that the comment was directed at him then that's the way it should be taken.

    8-9 week ban otherwise they will open the floodgates on abusing referees


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    #101
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    Yeah, totally agree. If Barnes sticks to his guns in his post-match report, Hartley's got to be gone.


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    #102
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    The guardian on hartley's RC - blaming it on Barne's accent (which makes a change from his eyesight, I suppose!)

    "But Barnes had told him that "You can't kick it straight to touch". In other words there was time for the scrum if he did. Barnes, though, from the Forest of Dean, has a slight West Country drawl, which flattens the "a" of "can't", so that in the midst of a stadium of 80,000 the "can't" was all but indistinguishable from a "can". Myler protested that he thought he had said he could kick it out. It was a misunderstanding. Hartley's Lions tour could be over, effectively, because of a referee's accent."

    Clutching at straws methinks...


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    #103
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    rockbeast wrote: »
    The guardian on hartley's RC - blaming it on Barne's accent (which makes a change from his eyesight, I suppose!)

    "But Barnes had told him that "You can't kick it straight to touch". In other words there was time for the scrum if he did. Barnes, though, from the Forest of Dean, has a slight West Country drawl, which flattens the "a" of "can't", so that in the midst of a stadium of 80,000 the "can't" was all but indistinguishable from a "can". Myler protested that he thought he had said he could kick it out. It was a misunderstanding. Hartley's Lions tour could be over, effectively, because of a referee's accent."

    Clutching at straws methinks...

    I thought the same thing. It sounded to me like he said "you can kick it out".


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    #104
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    matthew8 wrote: »
    I thought the same thing. It sounded to me like he said "you can kick it out".

    yeah, makes no sense that he would do that after Barnes said he "can'T".

    Crowd noise/adrenaline/rush to half-time obviously interfered with hearing. Should have checked again to be certain but disingenuous to think he'd do that after barnes said he can't...

    Still doesn't excuse hartley though.

    PS ref should only be calling time anyway, not advising on rules for restart when in the red. up to the pro rugby player to know rule...


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    #105
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    rockbeast wrote: »
    yeah, makes no sense that he would do that after Barnes said he "can'T".

    Crowd noise/adrenaline/rush to half-time obviously interfered with hearing. Should have checked again to be certain but disingenuous to think he'd do that after barnes said he can't...

    Still doesn't excuse hartley though.

    I think with Hartley he's very good when the going is good, but he's just easily frustrated when losing. And there were plenty of refereeing calls to be frustrated by in the first half.


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    #106
    tac4271
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭tac4271


    This is on Sky Sports 3 at the minute, started about 20 minutes ago.


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    #107
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    tac4271 wrote: »
    This is on Sky Sports 3 at the minute, started about 20 minutes ago.

    I'm watching it now, the Hartley sending off has yet to happen.


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    #108
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    IMO he def said it to Barnes, would make no sense for him to say it to Youngs

    Also, what the hell was Marler at


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    #109
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    trouttrout wrote: »
    IMO he def said it to Barnes, would make no sense for him to say it to Youngs

    Also, what the hell was Marler at

    That's a very very difficult question to answer


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    #110
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Well the warning to Hartley beforehand from Barnes was pretty clear.

    As for the actual incident, it's unclear if Hartley was talking to the ref or an opposition player from the pictures that Sky showed. However the commentators seem certain.

    For anyone that watched live, was it clear that Hartley directed the obscenity at the ref? In any case if his version of events is true, that he directed it at Youngs, he was speaking to a Lions teammate which isn't exactly smart either.

    Given his record, it's difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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    #111
    hype101
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭hype101


    Had the match recorded and looking at the incident in the slowest setting, his claim that he was directing it at Tom Youngs is dubious enough.. He's definitely looking at Barnes when he says the words and then looks down at Youngs just after.. Barnes was in no doubt though.. I'd say he is in trouble

    Does anyone know if the panel have any wiggle room to overrule the minimum 6 weeks?


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    #112
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Tox56 wrote: »
    That's a very very difficult question to answer

    My only guess is that he was trying to bounce the ball and before it went into touch


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    #113
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    If it comes down to Barnes' word vs His, Hartley doesn't tour. And tbh, I think that's exactly what is going to happen


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    #114
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    trouttrout wrote: »
    My only guess is that he was trying to bounce the ball and before it went into touch

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Marler

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Myler

    ;)

    To actually answer your question someone posted a link where Myler thought Barnes said you "can" kick it out, and it did sound like that, although really he should have known the laws.


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    #115
    matthew8
    Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Having seen it live, the first I heard of it was that he was given a red. I had no idea what it was for. I reckon he was saying it about Youngs to Barnes.


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    #116
    tac4271
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭tac4271


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Well the warning to Hartley beforehand from Barnes was pretty clear.

    As for the actual incident, it's unclear if Hartley was talking to the ref or an opposition player from the pictures that Sky showed. However the commentators seem certain.

    For anyone that watched live, was it clear that Hartley directed the obscenity at the ref? In any case if his version of events is true, that he directed it at Youngs, he was speaking to a Lions teammate which isn't exactly smart either.

    Given his record, it's difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I had a stream on on my laptop but wasn't completely concentrated on the match. However I think it might have been in a cutscene when the commentators started saying how Hartley had been sent off, so it wasn't clear, no.


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    #117
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    hype101 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if the panel have any wiggle room to overrule the minimum 6 weeks?

    Well they didn't for Quinlan, so if there's any consistency then the Lions Tour shouldn't be a factor here either.

    The fact that Hartley was previously warned by Barnes is going to bury any chance of leniency. Any player with self-restraint is going to shut the **** up after being warned.

    Hartley: I'm sorry
    Judge: Well you were warned by the referee to not do it again
    Hartley: But I'm even more sorry after doing it a second time
    Judge: ???

    ;)


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    #118
    decisions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭decisions


    Having watched it a few times he is looking at Barnes when he says it, then he looks to Youngs.

    Given his record he isn't going to get the benifit of the doubt in this case, it's Barnses (who was 100% sure it was aimed at him) word against his. Who would you believe? Now the question is, is there any way the RFU can shorten the ban without undermining their ref?


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    #119
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    decisions wrote: »
    Having watched it a few times he is looking at Barnes when he says it, then he looks to Youngs.

    Given his record he isn't going to get the benifit of the doubt in this case, it's Barnses (who was 100% sure it was aimed at him) word against his. Who would you believe? Now the question is, is there any way the RFU can shorten the ban without undermining their ref?

    Does anyone know what Barnes initially warned him for? It could have been something pretty bad but he just didn't want to go straight for a red?


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    #120
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A Lions spokesperson (I think I saw it on ESPN's site) said that every player has to be available for the second match of the tour. So if they follow through, even a two week ban would rule Hartley out.
    Does anyone know what Barnes initially warned him for? It could have been something pretty bad but he just didn't want to go straight for a red?

    I think Hartley was just bitching towards Barnes and Barnes warned Hartley to keep his opinions to himself.


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    #121
    decisions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭decisions


    The warning seemed to be just for complaining a bit too much for the refs liking.

    Heartly knew when he was shown the red how much he had ****ed up, the look on his face said it all. He lost his team the Aviva prem and he had put himself out of the lions in one moment.


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