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Mattie Mcgrath accuses Shatter of being stopped by Gardai

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    #152
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Who reads the sunday papers anymore? All the news is online anyway and up to date.

    Considering 240,000 people read the Sunday Independent alone, quite a few still read the Sunday papers. In fact for a lot of people the only day they buy a paper is on a Sunday.


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    #153
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭nino1


    what a crock of sh1t of an excuse!
    For the vast majority, you have to have respiratory disease , be in your 80's or 90's, be just after participating in strenuous exercise or all of the above not to be able to be able to blow into a breathalyser for 4 or 5 seconds with an air volume of 1.5 litres, none or which apply to Shatter.


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    #154
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    nino1 wrote: »
    what a crock of sh1t of an excuse!
    For the vast majority, you have to have respiratory disease , be in your 80's or 90's, be just after participating in strenuous exercise or all of the above not to be able to be able to blow into a breathalyser for 4 or 5 seconds with an air volume of 1.5 litres, none or which apply to Shatter.

    But he is not the same as us ordinary people, he is a minister in a government, that considers themselves above us all. We should be thankful for their generosity, in allowing us to realize the difficult situation one of our leaders found himself in, when some clown had the cheek to stop him on his way home from the Dail where they have several bars. What is this country coming too. That clown should be transferred to Rockall, without his sleeping bag.


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    #155
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Considering 240,000 people read the Sunday Independent alone, quite a few still read the Sunday papers. In fact for a lot of people the only day they buy a paper is on a Sunday.

    The Sunday Independent is not a real paper balanced and honest, lol. Its no more than a propaganda rag for the party faithful. One would certainly not buy it for the news.


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    #156
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The Sunday Independent is not a real paper balanced and honest, lol. Its no more than a propaganda rag for the party faithful. One would certainly not buy it for the news.

    I only buy it lately, over the reports on Lowry and co. They do great coverage on that.


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    #157
    Freddie Rincon
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Freddie Rincon


    the politicians obviously do not fear or respect the national public opinion or mood. The country is therefore a joke, or a feudal plaything, for disillusioned teachers who chose to go to Dublin so they can get their dumb mugs on RTE.


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    #158
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    I only buy it lately, over the reports on Lowry and co. They do great coverage on that.

    Take anything it publishes with a big pinch of salt, and even more when it publishes glowing stories about its party members. It lost all credibility when it allowed Bertie to publish all those articles in the past.


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    #159
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What is interesting to note is that Mattie McGrath, according to his comments just now on Newstalk, is pretty certain that his date was closer to the correct time of the event than the date Shatter gave in his statement. Wouldn't surprise me if McGrath knows much more than he is letting on, so the Sunday papers could be very interesting.

    Because everything written in the Sunday papers must be true right? Are FF reduced to this? Trial by media. This whole thing is a non issue that has been blown out of proportion by the media and most worryingly the gardai. If Marty McGrath is wrong, can we expect an appology from him or FF?

    However sierra Oscar if you have some inside knowledge because of your membership to the FF party then by all means let us know, otherwise coming on here egging on the situation like the pipped pipper is pretty disengenious to all concerned.


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    #160
    Gryire
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭Gryire


    Floppybits wrote: »
    The Jim Mcdaid situation is completely different, he was caught driving the wrong way on the road and it wasnt buried. But in this case they knew about Shatter, they could have done was Shatter did last Thursday and use that to attack him during the election but they didn't.

    Unfortunately in this country all political parties are as bad as each other. :mad:

    But it happened after the election!


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    #161
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Paul Scholes.


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    #162
    rodento
    Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭rodento


    Looks like this is a case give enough rope...

    The minister's political future depends on the possible existence of a garda report on the incident four years ago, which would back up or contradict his version of events. Mr Shatter will be pressed to formally ask the gardai if there is any information on his own case – either on file or verbal.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatters-future-depends-on-garda-report-29294925.html

    Every day something new is been released like

    It is believed the garda on duty did not recognise Mr Shatter.

    Coalition figures say Mr Shatter only issued his half-hearted apology to Mr Wallace after pressure from Fine Gael and the Labour Party to acknowledge he was wrong.

    Government sources say Mr Shatter’s position is stable unless a report emerges conflicting with his version of events.

    Looking forward to tomorrow


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    #163
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    rodento wrote: »

    It is believed the garda on duty did not recognise Mr Shatter.

    I wonder what would happen if a Garda did not recognise a TD at a checkpoint after they had tried to claim Dáil travel/business privilege, and the TD decided to just drive on regardless?

    Pure speculation, but plenty of rumours doing the rounds - that is why Shatter will have to publish this Garda report to back up his version of events.


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    #164
    mikehammer67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭mikehammer67


    it not over yet


    i'll bet he loses his job over this


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    #165
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,791 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    mikehammer67 wrote: »
    it not over yet


    i'll bet he loses his job over this

    Would'nt it be a great world if we all could say "ah sure I didn't do this " and we were just waved on.

    He's damaged goods now.


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    #166
    SB2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭SB2013


    Why would there be a Garda report for any of these incidents?


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    #167
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    mikehammer67 wrote: »
    it not over yet

    i'll bet he loses his job over this
    Not before Wallace faces the justice system for his fraudulent debts, tax evasion and pension fund theft.


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    #168
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Not before Wallace faces the justice system for his fraudulent debts, tax evasion and pension fund theft.
    The state can walk straight and chew gum at the same time.

    Mick Wallace's false tax returns don't let Shatter off the hook for Shatter's potentially criminal activities.

    In the same vein, Shatter's revelations of Wallace's private data don't let Wallace off the hook for tax evasion.

    Both things stand independently of one another, not least because both are ultimately offences against the citizen.


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    #169
    Weevil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Weevil


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Not before Wallace faces the justice system for his fraudulent debts, tax evasion and pension fund theft.

    Oooooooh, look! A Distraction!


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    #170
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Forget Shatter, it's about time these unacceptable leaks of individual's records started being clamped down upon.

    How can we forget shatter? As a medical person, I find Shatter's excuse to be quite laughable. A Minister for Justice holds a position, in which their personal integrity and behaviour should stand up to the highest scrutiny at all times. But Shatter appears to be no different to the last 'shower' who were in power. In that self-preservation and power retention is their all consuming priority.


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    #171
    rodento
    Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭rodento


    Not sure if this was already posted

    However this evening Mattie McGrath hinted that he still believes the Minister was pulled over in 2011

    https://soundcloud.com/breakingnews-ie/mattie-mcgrath-hinted-that-he


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    #172
    mikehammer67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 699 ✭✭✭mikehammer67


    the exact year seems to be a mystery all round for some reason?

    i wonder if he's had a quiet word with his friend the commissioner
    to make any reports go away


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    #173
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I wonder what would happen if a Garda did not recognise a TD at a checkpoint after they had tried to claim Dáil travel/business privilege, and the TD decided to just drive on regardless?

    Pure speculation, but plenty of rumours doing the rounds - that is why Shatter will have to publish this Garda report to back up his version of events.


    What rumors are these? By all means tell us or else get the lakies out of here. Interesting that YOU are taking a deep interest in this.


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    #174
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    jank wrote: »
    What rumors are these? By all means tell us or else get the lakies out of here. Interesting that YOU are taking a deep interest in this.

    I'm not going to release and leak information as some have been doing. If it is verified within the media then so be it, Ill be happy to discuss it then but considering the rumors at the moment are just gossip it would be unfair to raise it. All I'm saying is that McGrath is sticking to his guns in terms of his version of events, and FF would not table a motion of no confidence lightly. There seems to be a consensus that Shatter's statement is an accurate representation of events, but I wouldn't be so sure until after having seen the official report on the matter.

    Not sure what your final comment means. I am very interested in current affairs. Not sure why you are posting on this forum if you aren't.


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    #175
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    All I'm saying is that McGrath is sticking to his guns in terms of his version of events, and FF would not table a motion of no confidence lightly.

    I highly doubt that.

    The time for putting down a no confidence motion was after Shatter had released private information to which he had privileged access, for his political assassination of Wallace.

    Yet Fianna Fáil didn't. In fact, last weekend, on the Saturday Debate and on the the News at One the following day, Fianna Fáil even rowed back from their calls for Shatter's resignation. They waited until an equally inappropriate release of Shatter's private life was leaked to table a no confidence motion. Extremely cynical move by a party which doesn't seem to have improved on its ethics radar.


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    #176
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I highly doubt that.

    The time for putting down a no confidence motion was after Shatter had released private information to which he had privileged access, for his political assassination of Wallace.

    Do you know how Dáil Éireann works?

    FF couldn't put down a no confidence motion for this week, as it was the Technical Group's slot in private members business. This week coming is FF's private members business slot, the earliest time in which it could move a motion of no confidence. If I were you, I would get a grasp of the facts before starting to attack FF's tabling of the no confidence motion on the basis that it should have been moved earlier.


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    #177
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Do you know how Dáil Éireann works?

    FF couldn't put down a no confidence motion for this week, as it was the Technical Group's slot in private members business. This week coming is FF's private members business slot, the earliest time in which it could move a motion of no confidence. If I were you, I would get a grasp of the facts before you start attacking FF's tabling of the no confidence motion on the basis that it should have been moved earlier.

    Er, yes, but I tend not to read the schedule of business. Nevertheless the point is that Fianna Fáil didn't indicate any willingness to put down a no-confidence motion, and even pulled back from calling for Shatter's resignation last weekend.

    Even if you read FF's current rhetoric, it focuses on demanding the Minister release information which was inappropriately leaked to the house by Mattie McGrath. The Wallace affair seems to be little more than an afterthought every time a FF lackey is sent out to speak to the press.

    I don;t think Fianna Fáil have any grasp of what Shatter has done wrong. You yourself have not indicated any such awareness.


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    #178
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    That doesn't amount to discretion the legal context of an arrest. The Garda had the option of asking Shatter if Shatter would like to go to the Garda Station, but in that case the discretion was Shatter's. It is in this context that I say the Garda had no discretion in this case - he was constitutionally prohibited from compelling Shatter to attend the Station or enter Garda custody.

    The Garda may have seized the vehicle if the Garda could establish reasonable suspicion that Shatter were drunk in charge of a motor vehicle. If Shatter had not met that test, as may have seemed likely by his demeanour and an absence of any indicator of intoxication whatever, the Garda would have no legal basis to seize Shatter's vehicle.

    Either way, what I had contended was discretion in relation to an arrest, I mentioned arrest twice in the post you quoted. I did not refer to the seizure of a vehicle, so again, it escapes me why you think you can assert that I am wrong.

    What arguably is there? I have already responded setting out why that isn't the case, citing the relevant case law for breach of the peace.
    Ok, so you agree that the Garda had discretion to act in a number of different ways; you just don't believe he had any discretion in respect of arresting shatter. Well that is certainly arguable. But far from definite.

    Aside from the exemptions within article 15.13 which are quite vague (particularly felony), there are other reasons why arguably 15.13 didn't apply. Was there evidential certainty that shatter, was in fact, coming from the dail? Does article 15.13 have to be invoked by shatter in order for it to be considered as a bar to arrest (and did shatter invoke it)? All/many of these issues are at present unknown.

    So, there are a number of reasons why your fairly final statement that 'the Garda had no discretion' is at least a little premature.


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    #179
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Er, yes, but I tend not to read the schedule of business. Nevertheless the point is that Fianna Fáil didn't indicate any willingness to put down a no-confidence motion, and even pulled back from calling for Shatter's resignation last weekend.

    Even if you read FF's current rhetoric, it focuses on demanding the Minister release information which was inappropriately leaked to the house by Mattie McGrath. The Wallace affair seems to be little more than an afterthought every time a FF lackey is sent out to speak to the press.

    I don;t think Fianna Fáil have any grasp of what Shatter has done wrong. You yourself have not indicated any such awareness.

    Its being suggested that Mattie may have been influenced by Fianna Fail (being an Independent Fianna Fail, jumping ship at the last election) and that these rumours have been going around Leinster House for a long time.


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    #180
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »

    Even if you read FF's current rhetoric, it focuses on demanding the Minister release information which was inappropriately leaked to the house by Mattie McGrath. The Wallace affair seems to be little more than an afterthought every time a FF lackey is sent out to speak to the press.

    You are being very selective with the press releases that you are referring to.

    Let me highlight the following statement for you, which was released before Mattie McGrath even mentioned the latest revelation in Dáil Éireann.

    Shatter’s explanation totally unacceptable – Collins
    Fianna Fáil Spokesperson on Justice Niall Collins has said Alan Shatter’s explanation for his inappropriate use of private and personal information on RTÉ’s Prime Time last week is totally unacceptable.

    “Minister Shatter has completely missed the point in trying to excuse his behaviour today. Last week he abused his position as Minister for Justice. He must acknowledge that, apologise for it and resign his position.

    “The roles of Ministers for Justice and Defence are extremely sensitive and involve receiving intelligence and information relating to gang crime, paramilitary activity and ongoing operations. Ministers holding these offices normally have the respect and dignity necessary to receive this information and not divulge sensitive, or in this case personal, information for political gain.

    “Alan Shatter’s actions were a fundamental breach of trust. His explanation today raises more questions about how he came to have the information concerned and does nothing to deal with the public fears that personal and sensitive information is not safe in his hands.

    “The Taoiseach’s response on this matter has been wholly inadequate and the Tánaiste’s silence on the matter is unacceptable. It is very worrying that the Labour Party is silent on such a fundamental issue.”

    The highlighted text clearly illustrates as to how FF called on the minister to resign prior to the latest revelation, which just makes matters worse for Shatter. Stop trying to claim that FF only want the minister to stand down because of the McGrath revelation, as it is simply not true. It also rubbishes your claim that FF pulled back from calling on the minister to resign after the weekend, considering the statement I refer to above was released on Monday.

    It is laughable that you are trying to turn this on the opposition, when it is Shatter who landed himself in this latest controversy. People are not falling for your diversionary tactics.


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    #181
    bus_driver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 47 ✭bus_driver


    SB2013 wrote: »
    Why would there be a Garda report for any of these incidents?


    Wallace was part of the gang who exposed garda quashing of penalty points in the dail , its no coincidence that his colleague deputy daly was herself slimed by AGS


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