Mattie Mcgrath accuses Shatter of being stopped by Gardai

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if a Garda did not recognise a TD at a checkpoint after they had tried to claim Dáil travel/business privilege, and the TD decided to just drive on regardless?

Pure speculation, but plenty of rumours doing the rounds - that is why Shatter will have to publish this Garda report to back up his version of events.

Did your FF weekly newspaper ( Sunday Independent) print the rumours you were hoping for?

Sully

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

What is interesting to note is that Mattie McGrath, according to his comments just now on Newstalk, is pretty certain that his date was closer to the correct time of the event than the date Shatter gave in his statement. Wouldn't surprise me if McGrath knows much more than he is letting on, so the Sunday papers could be very interesting.

Well Thank You very much! First thing I did this morning was rush out to by the Sindo to see what all this fuss was about Shatter, but the best Fianna Fail could muster was about a fake Rolex watch Shatter had in his house that he bought in the Canaries some years ago.

Very disappointed. Gutted, in fact, that the papers had nothing new. But I am sure it was good for the circulation for the Sindo as it would have peaked this weekend following a rush from Boardsies to go and buy it on your suggestion :P

I guess we will wait for the bombshell to be dropped in the confidence vote.

jank

Yeap, still waiting for the newspapers to have the 'real' story about Shatter. My guess is that Mattie McGrath is full of ****, pumped full of it my Michael Martin.

mikehammer67

did he play the dail card when threatened with arrest?

his asthma excuse doesn't appear to be legit either


lots of elite athletes have asthma- they seem to be able to breathe ok

Cody Pomeray

mikehammer67 wrote: »

did he play the dail card when threatened with arrest?

It's not a question of "the Dáil card" - it is irrelevant whether Shatter deliberately used Article 15.13 to avoid detention or arrest; citing one's Constitutional rights cannot be a resigning offence. That would be patently ridiculous.

The "bombshell" was the release of an opposition politician's private information, as such, this 'bombshell' has already been dropped, and we should wait until SIPO reports before we pronounce Shatter's career to have survived. I hope it ends up with Shatter resigning and leaving political life forever. This Matty McGrath diversion is - as you might expect from McGrath and his party - a clownish exercise in the ridiculous.

mikehammer67

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

It's not a question of "the Dáil card" - it is irrelevant whether Shatter deliberately used Article 15.13 to avoid detention or arrest; citing one's Constitutional rights cannot be a resigning offence. That would be patently ridiculous.

The "bombshell" was the release of an opposition politician's private information, as such, this 'bombshell' has already been dropped, and we should wait until SIPO reports before we pronounce Shatter's career to have survived. I hope it ends up with Shatter resigning and leaving political life forever. This Matty McGrath diversion is - as you might expect from McGrath and his party - a clownish exercise in the ridiculous.

you may feel it's irrelevant that maybe he played the dail card to avoid being arrested

i don't

Cody Pomeray

That's fine. People believe in all sorts of ridiculous stuff.

mikehammer67

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

That's fine. People believe in all sorts of ridiculous stuff.

you think it's ok if the serving minister for justice played the dail card to avoid arrest

after failing to provide a breath sample?


and it's ridiculous if i have a problem with that?

Mr.Micro

The irony of all this, is FF wagging the finger in the form of a pretend independent about standards. You gotta laugh, coming from a party that never had any.

Cody Pomeray

mikehammer67 wrote: »

you think it's ok if the serving minister for justice played the dail card to avoid arrest

"pulling the Dáil card" = citing a constitutional right.

If a member of An Garda Síochána walked up to your car and tried to arrest you, I'm sure you'd want to be satisfied that they were giving due cognisance to your Constitutional rights. I'm sure you wouldn't dismiss your rights as "pulling the Constitutional card".

I'd have no problem with privilege from arrest under Article 15.13 of the Constitution being abolished.

But while it exists, it forms part of the legitimate collection of constitutional rights afforded to someone in Shatter's position, and individuals just cannot be expected to land in hot water for the citation of their Constitutional rights. That's the kind of nonsense we would expect from a banana republic.

SB2013

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

"pulling the Dáil card" = citing a constitutional right.

If a member of An Garda Síochána walked up to your car and tried to arrest you, I'm sure you'd want to be satisfied that they were giving due cognisance to your Constitutional rights. I'm sure you wouldn't dismiss your rights as "pulling the Constitutional card".

I'd have no problem with privilege from arrest under Article 15.13 of the Constitution being abolished.

But while it exists, it forms part of the legitimate collection of constitutional rights afforded to someone in Shatter's position, and individuals just cannot be expected to land in hot water for the citation of their Constitutional rights. That's the kind of nonsense we would expect from a banana republic.

The issue is more with his failure to provide a sample knowing he could not be arrested.

mikehammer67

SB2013 wrote: »

The issue is more with his failure to provide a sample knowing he could not be arrested.

exactly

he doesn't seem to get it

raymon

Sully wrote: »

Well Thank You very much! First thing I did this morning was rush out to by the Sindo to see what all this fuss was about Shatter, but the best Fianna Fail could muster was about a fake Rolex watch Shatter had in his house that he bought in the Canaries some years ago.

Very disappointed. Gutted, in fact, that the papers had nothing new. But I am sure it was good for the circulation for the Sindo as it would have peaked this weekend following a rush from Boardsies to go and buy it on your suggestion :P

I guess we will wait for the bombshell to be dropped in the confidence vote.

Poor you. Now you have to read through pages and pages of Fianna Fail twaddle.

My advice , go straight to the Lidl Catalogue.

Cody Pomeray

SB2013 wrote: »

The issue is more with his failure to provide a sample knowing he could not be arrested.

Alan Shatter is a solicitor, both he and the Garda would have been very aware that a Garda manning a checkpoint could have prosecuted Shatter for failing to supply a breath sample in accordance with the Garda's request.

This offence doesn't require an arrest, and Shatter enjoyed no immunity from prosecution in law.

So it seems unlikely that Shatter would have deliberately refused to provide a breath sample, since he might have ended up before the courts for doing so, Article 15.13 notwithstanding.

mikehammer67

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Alan Shatter is a solicitor, both he and the Garda would have been very aware that a Garda manning a checkpoint could have prosecuted Shatter for failing to supply a breath sample in accordance with the Garda's request.

This offence doesn't require an arrest, and Shatter enjoyed no immunity from prosecution in law.

So it seems unlikely that Shatter would have deliberately refused to provide a breath sample, since he might have ended up before the courts for doing so, Article 15.13 notwithstanding.

unless he had been drinking............... and wanted to get away with it

Cody Pomeray

mikehammer67 wrote: »

unless he had been drinking............... and wanted to get away with it

Now we're really getting into the "what if" territory. Yes, Shatter might have been stociously drunk, he might have had cocaine all over the dashboard of his car, and he might have had two dead prostitutes in the back seat. I suppose we'll never know Ms Lansbury .....................


........................

mikehammer67

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Now we're really getting into the "what if" territory. Yes, Shatter might have been stociously drunk, he might have had cocaine all over the dashboard of his car, and he might have had two dead prostitutes in the back seat. I suppose we'll never know Ms Lansbury .....................


........................

i didn't speculate that far


it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that he had a couple of drinks

that might explain his actions at the scene

drkpower

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Alan Shatter is a solicitor, both he and the Garda would have been very aware that a Garda manning a checkpoint could have prosecuted Shatter for failing to supply a breath sample in accordance with the Garda's request.

This offence doesn't require an arrest, and Shatter enjoyed no immunity from prosecution in law.

So it seems unlikely that Shatter would have deliberately refused to provide a breath sample, since he might have ended up before the courts for doing so, Article 15.13 notwithstanding.

But he is also knowledgeable enough to know that a 'failure' to produce a sample on apparent medical grounds is very likely to amount to a very strong defence.

In any case, all of the media's focus on shatters past indiscretions is quite conveniently taking the focus away from the actual issue here; his apparent illegal disclosure of personal information for political purposes. Even pat rabitte has acknowledged that it was wrong, yet shatter is still maintaining that it was legitimate.

I'm not overly concerned about wallace's minor indiscretions being made public, but am concerned that a justice minister can continue to assert that such an action is both lawful and acceptable.

trashcan

drkpower wrote: »

In any case, all of the media's focus on shatters past indiscretions is quite conveniently taking the focus away from the actual issue here; his apparent illegal disclosure of personal information for political purposes. Even pat rabitte has acknowledged that it was wrong, yet shatter is still maintaining that it was legitimate.

I'm not overly concerned about wallace's minor indiscretions being made public, but am concerned that a justice minister can continue to assert that such an action is both lawful and acceptable.

Yes yes yes. Thank you. I thought it was just me who was seeing this. I'm not really overly concerned if Shatter may have been slightly over the limit when stopped 4/5 years ago - or whenever it actually was- and somehow managed to talk his way out of a test. As I've said already on this thread, what's far more disturbing is that a fairly innocuous (by the sounds of it) encounter between a citizen and two rank and file Gardai somehow makes it's way to the Minister for Justice who then proceeds to use the info to do down a political opponent. There was no legitimate reason for the Commissioner, or any other Garda, to bring this matter to the attention of the Minister, and no legitimate reason for him to use it for political gain.

Le_Dieux

wazzer1 wrote: »

Sorry but whats this Dail privilege, they dont have to take a breath test??

Doesn't seem like it, nor do they have to píss in a bottle, OR give a blood sample.

HYPOCRACY of the highest order IMHO!

Le_Dieux

ResearchWill wrote: »

No a member of the Dail can not be arrested going to or from the Dail. This is contained in the Constitution Article 15 13

"13. The members of each House of the Oireachtas shall, except in case of treason as defined in this Constitution, felony or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest in going to and returning from, and while within the precincts of, either House, and shall not, in respect of any utterance in either House, be amenable to any court or any authority other than the House itself."

This was to make sure that in important votes members would not be stopped from voting.

So, there is nothing to say they can't vote while being locked stupid???:eek:

yara

Le_Dieux wrote: »

So, there is nothing to say they can't vote while being locked stupid???:eek:

old news is old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHkCqdGZhZg

Le_Dieux

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

He has issued a statement saying he is asthmatic and was incapable of providing a sample. A Garda consulted with another Garda, and then let him go.

Absolute nonsense, but this path is already well trod.

If He was stopped and asked to inhale, there MUST have been suspicions! So, why wasn't taken to the relevant Garda station, & instructed to pee in a bottle, or give a blood sample?

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Very complicated, but plausable. Oh, Mattie. Talk your way out of this one!

On the contrary, I would think it's dear oul Alan who needs to find a plausible story here.

He was stopped for a reason, He couldn't blow into a breathalyser (sp?), but then why wasn't he carted down to the copshop, and either urine or blood sample taken?

Plausable on McGrath's part I should think!

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

Clare Daly admitted having a drink. There is no suggestion that it was suspected that Alan Shatter had been drinking.

OMG....IF there was NO suspicion, then why was he asked to blow into the bag in the first place??

drkpower

Le dieux slow down and do a bit of background reading, it was a random drink driving checkpoint where everyone is breathylysed

Cody Pomeray

drkpower wrote: »

But he is also knowledgeable enough to know that a 'failure' to produce a sample on apparent medical grounds is very likely to amount to a very strong defence.

Yes, it is; rightly so. I've blown into a breathalyser in the past, my recollection is that it does take a reasonably significant exhalation. Asthma had previously been held to cause to a legitimate inability to provide a complete sample of breath for the purposes of alcohol testing in the English courts (R (Willicott) v DPP [2001]).

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Doesn't seem like it, nor do they have to píss in a bottle, OR give a blood sample.

HYPOCRACY of the highest order IMHO!

A TD or a Senator who is stopped by a Garda en route to, or on return from Oireachtas Eireann may be charged both with refusing to supply a breath sample, and with drink driving in accordance with Section 4(1) of the Road Traffic Act (2010). The TD can be fined, imprisoned and put off the road just like everyone else. No hypocrisy at all.

Worztron

seamus wrote: »

I've had a roadside breath test fail on me (i.e. the machine didn't work) and I was waved on.

I've also been stopped at a checkpoint with an expired insurance disc (I was insured though) and after quickly asking me about it, I was waved on.

And I'm not a politician. Discretion is used on a daily basis by all if not most Gardai, there's nothing odd or corrupt about politicians experiencing it just like the rest of us do.

You did not fail the breath test - the gammy machine did. But lets say the machine worked fine and you were asthmatic and said: "Sorry guard, I am not taking the test because I'm asthmatic."

Le_Dieux

Deleted User wrote: »

IF he committed a serious offence, yes. Spreading gossip, which is what Mattie has done is wrong.

Here we have a minister who has not told the story until he was named in DE my Mattie McGrath, independent TD for South Tipperary, of which ( as MA contributes to the Clonmel thread) resides there. I therefore wonder if MA has an ulterior motive or otherwise to criticising Mattie McGrath?

I live in Newbridge, so have NO affiliation to Mattie McGrath one bit. I DO, however, believe I, as a law abiding* citizen of this corrupt screwed up country, have a right to know why Shatter was not brought to the Garda Staion and asked for either a blood sample, or a unrine sample.

* I don't regard not paying a tax which I can't nor will pay as a law breaker - and please MA, You well know, there are enough other threads on this LPT.

mikehammer67

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Here we have a minister who has not told the story until he was named in DE my Mattie McGrath, independent TD for South Tipperary, of which ( as MA contributes to the Clonmel thread) resides there. I therefore wonder if MA has an ulterior motive or otherwise to criticising Mattie McGrath?

I live in Newbridge, so have NO affiliation to Mattie McGrath one bit. I DO, however, believe I, as a law abiding* citizen of this corrupt screwed up country, have a right to know why Shatter was not brought to the Garda Staion and asked for either a blood sample, or a unrine sample.

* I don't regard not paying a tax which I can't nor will pay as a law breaker - and please MA, You well know, there are enough other threads on this LPT.

DE MA LPT ??