Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Communions/confirmations, utter farce?

Options
  • 18-05-2013 7:03pm
    #1
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭


    Parents who don't believe in God, those who do or aren't sure usually don't do what the church preaches. Yet they are celebrating their progeny being initiated into this discredited institution. What's it all about?:confused:


«13456789

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    sea_monkey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 755 ✭✭✭sea_monkey


    Tradition,conforming, fear of making their child different


  • Options
    #3
    DazMarz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s


    For the kids anyway (and in some cases the parents), the above video, particularly the chorus, would seem to be the reason behind it...


  • Options
    #4
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Sure its a lovely day out, isn't it? Sure, everyone else is doing it, they'll be gutted if they're left out. Ah, its different from our day, the priest is lovely and they teach them about being friends, that kinda thing. Sure why wouldn't you want them doing it? Ah, the grannies would be devastated if we didn't do it, they love the day out. It won't do them any harm, sure I don't agree with the church but, sure we have our own faith, you have to believe in something, don't you? Ah, they've been doing it in school, you couldn't back out when they've been hearing about it since they were in baby infants.

    Etc, etc, etc. Never once have I heard any parents say they are including their children in the sacraments because they are important to them as a family raising children in Catholic doctrine. Its always a list of 'nice' bits about the church, wrapped up with tradition, the auld 'everyone else is doing it line' (because that's a good lesson to teach your children) and the nice memories they have of their own magic wafers.


  • Options
    #5
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,694 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    because they think it supplies a moral framework atheism doesn't, too.


  • Options
    #6
    Lisha
    Registered Users Posts: 8,693 ✭✭✭Lisha


    Communions confirmations are done through schools mostly . Noone wants to be the one to say my Johnny/Mary must be assigned class work while ye do the religious biz.
    Also Nana would have a fit :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    because they think it supplies a moral framework atheism doesn't, too.

    [Citation needed]

    Which moral framework are you applying that you learned from the communion and confirmation sacraments?


  • Options
    #8
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Parents who don't believe in God, those who do or aren't sure usually don't do what the church preaches. Yet they are celebrating their progeny being initiated into this discredited institution. What's it all about?:confused:

    It is the path of least resistance.


  • Options
    #9
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,694 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    lazygal wrote: »
    [Citation needed]

    Which moral framework are you applying that you learned from the communion and confirmation sacraments?
    are you asking me or the hypothetical parents?


  • Options
    #10
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Parents who don't believe in God, those who do or aren't sure usually don't do what the church preaches. Yet they are celebrating their progeny being initiated into this discredited institution. What's it all about?:confused:

    I don't believe in God. My daughter is makin her confirmation this year. This was entirely her choice. She was offered a coming of age type day out together with cash should she choose not to make it. I didn't want money to be the deciding factor in her decision.

    I imagine most reasonable Atheists and Agnostics raise their children to be critical thinkers and to make their own minds up about religion.


  • Options
    #11
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    StillWaters wrote: »
    I don't believe in God. My daughter is makin her confirmation this year. This was entirely her choice. She was offered a coming of age type day out together with cash should she choose not to make it. I didn't want money to be the deciding factor in her decision.

    I imagine most reasonable Atheists and Agnostics raise their children to be critical thinkers and to make their own minds up about religion.

    Is she in a Catholic school? I presume she's 12. I don't think children of 12 know what they're getting into in terms of organised religion at 12. I know I didn't.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    are you asking me or the hypothetical parents?

    You seemed to know what the hypothetical parents were thinking in your previous post.

    It's a bit absurd, alright. I was confirmed at 9, in 1970. Get them brainwashed early, eh.


  • Options
    #13
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    A lot of parents see religion as the easy way of instilling a bit of morality in kids.
    A lot of people couldn't care less about contemplating reality in any depth sure isn't Britain's Got Scabies on and XFactor.
    The common theme is laziness and a lack of desire to learn anything after secondary school.


  • Options
    #14
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Parents who don't believe in God, those who do or aren't sure usually don't do what the church preaches. Yet they are celebrating their progeny being initiated into this discredited institution. What's it all about?:confused:

    It's a Catholic country, the majority of people here are Catholic. Still a significant number of people attending weekly Mass.

    If you dont want to practice religion then it s up to you. You wont find Catholics starting discussion threads slagging you off. Find something else to moan about.


  • Options
    #15
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    jimd2 wrote: »
    Still a significant number of people attending weekly Mass.

    That's an interesting interpretation of the word 'significant'.


  • Options
    #16
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    jimd2 wrote: »
    It's a Catholic country, the majority of people here are Catholic. Still a significant number of people attending weekly Mass.

    If you dont want to practice religion then it s up to you. You wont find Catholics starting discussion threads slagging you off. Find something else to moan about.

    And yet very few people understand their faith for us to be in a catholic country with a "significant" number of people attending mass with most people asked saying that religion isnt important in their lives.

    I dont see him slagging off Catholics, its the people who call themselves catholic while not going near a church outside of weddings and Christmas he is questioning.


  • Options
    #17
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    Galvasean wrote: »
    That's an interesting interpretation of the word 'significant'.

    What problem do you have with my use of the word?


  • Options
    #18
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    And yet very few people understand their faith for us to be in a catholic country with a "significant" number of people attending mass with most people asked saying that religion isnt important in their lives.

    I dont see him slagging off Catholics, its the people who call themselves catholic while not going near a church outside of weddings and Christmas he is questioning.

    Have you a link to the reports showing that very few understand their faith and also the report saying that most people attending mass say that religion isn't important in their lives (that is how I interpreted your point).


  • Options
    #19
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    jimd2 wrote: »
    What problem do you have with my use of the word?

    It would seem completely unsuitable, because buggerall people go to mass any more. Did it really have to be spelled out for you? And one really doesn't have to travel very far to see Catholics starting discussion threads slagging off non-Catholics. Not very far at all. They're just not very good at it.


  • Options
    #20
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    jimd2 wrote: »
    Have you a link to the reports showing that very few understand their faith and also the report saying that most people attending mass say that religion isn't important in their lives (that is how I interpreted your point).

    I havent seen any reports myself on peoples understanding of their faith but from my own experience when an atheist (or I may be more ignostic) is telling you what you are supposedly meant to believe as a Catholic I would question what do you actually know about your belief. Although the children that are counted as members know nothing about the group they are part of but I'll ignore them as they are being "educated" of it.

    What I meant was they are two separate groups but again I have no evidence to prove that most church goers are or are not religious, they could have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning.

    This is copy/pasted from a discussion I had on the Christianity forum:

    Look hear at church attendance:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...lic_of_Ireland

    And here for 53% of Ireland answered no to "Does religion occupy an important place in your life?":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrelig...lic_of_Ireland

    Sarky wrote: »
    It would seem completely unsuitable, because buggerall people go to mass any more. Did it really have to be spelled out for you? And one really doesn't have to travel very far to see Catholics starting discussion threads slagging off non-Catholics. Not very far at all. They're just not very good at it.

    The last time it turned into a discussion on biscuits which was actually more popular than the original topic.


  • Options
    #21
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I havent seen any reports myself on peoples understanding of their faith but from my own experience when an atheist (or I may be more ignostic) is telling you what you are supposedly meant to believe as a Catholic I would question what do you actually know about your belief. Although the children that are counted as members know nothing about the group they are part of but I'll ignore them as they are being "educated" of it.

    What I meant was they are two separate groups but again I have no evidence to prove that most church goers are or are not religious, they could have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning.

    This is copy/pasted from a discussion I had on the Christianity forum:

    Look hear at church attendance:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...lic_of_Irelandk

    And here for 53% of Ireland answered no to "Does religion occupy an important place in your life?":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrelig...lic_of_Ireland

    First of all what is ignostic?

    Explain the bit where you have explained what I am "supposedly meant to believe" ??

    And your 53% answering no to the importance of religion question, is that of people attending mass as you seemed to state in your post?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    jimd2
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    Sarky wrote: »
    It would seem completely unsuitable, because buggerall people go to mass any more. Did it really have to be spelled out for you? And one really doesn't have to travel very far to see Catholics starting discussion threads slagging off non-Catholics. Not very far at all. They're just not very good at it.

    Maybe in your area "buggerall" go to mass but in my area a significant number of people go. That is not saying the majority go but a substantial amount go in comparison to the numbers going to many other events both religious and non religious. My area is a town circa 5-10000 population so is not a rural hamlet.

    And if you have a recent thread that makes your point better on the Catholics slagging off non Catholics then post a link. We are all big boys here. I do mean recent as a google search can almost find anything online.


  • Options
    #23
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    jimd2 wrote: »
    First of all what is ignostic?

    Explain the bit where you have explained what I am "supposedly meant to believe" ??

    And your 53% answering no to the importance of religion question, is that of people attending mass as you seemed to state in your post?

    Im new to the idea of ignosticism but from my reading of it it asks what is meant by the term god and beliefs vary for different definitions.

    Transubstantiation, homosexuality is a sin, divorce is wrong, contraception is wrong, moldy cloth should be taken to a priest etc etc. Quite a few protestants who consider themselves catholic in this country.

    As mentioned above that is not what I meant. They are statistics of mass attendance and there is the 53% of people asked(both mass attenders and non mass attenders, both treated as separate groups.


    On page 1 of the forum is this:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056942968


  • Options
    #24
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    lazygal wrote: »
    Is she in a Catholic school? I presume she's 12. I don't think children of 12 know what they're getting into in terms of organised religion at 12. I know I didn't.

    No, not a Catholic school. I think you will find that many 12 year olds who have been brought up to be questioning critical thinkers have a fair idea of what organised religion is about.

    Most rational tolerant atheists bring their children up to form their own opinions, and do not foist their own beliefs or lack of upon them. That is what I have always striven to do. My daughter has made an informed decision and I support her in that.


  • Options
    #25
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    StillWaters wrote: »
    . My daughter has made an informed decision and I support her in that.

    Did your daughter get a choice in her christening and communion too?


  • Options
    #26
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    I've let my children figure out the tooth fairy, easter bunny and santa while actively encouraging belief. I've no doubt they'll come to the right conclusion about Catholicism, especially as they don't get encouragement.

    It's as said above, it's the path of least resistance.


  • Options
    #27
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I object to my country being labelled a 'catholic country', actually the idea that religion developes morality is a complete misnomer. It's doctrine is directly opposed to many basic human right's. The Catholic church tells me who to love, not to use contraception, denies women autonomy over their own bodies, whenever there's an issue of civil liberties the catholic church opposes it. I think it can create seriously imbalanced children. For a decade or more I thought I was going to hell.

    It is initiation into this institution that families celebrate, the farce is that many, most parent's even agree with much or most of what I've written, so what's it all about?.:confused: The path of least resistance, yes I understand that, but something needs to change, there's too many Catholic run schools and despite all of what I've outlined, and much of what I haven't, most parent's don't seem to care.

    I've met people who go to mass and who professed not even to believe in God, I suppose they were raised with it, it was a social opportunity, a habit, a civic duty even though they don't believe in God, I joke you not, never mind all that goes with that.


  • Options
    #28
    shes_crazy
    Site Banned Posts: 45 ✭shes_crazy


    Freiheit wrote: »
    I object to my country being labelled a 'catholic country', actually the idea that religion developes morality is a complete misnomer. It's doctrine is directly opposed to many basic human right's. The Catholic church tells me who to love, not to use contraception, denies women autonomy over their own bodies, whenever there's an issue of civil liberties the catholic church opposes it. I think it can create seriously imbalanced children. For a decade or more I thought I was going to hell.

    It is initiation into this institution that families celebrate, the farce is that many, most parent's even agree with much or most of what I've written, so what's it all about?.:confused: The path of least resistance, yes I understand that, but something needs to change, there's too many Catholic run schools and despite all of what I've outlined, and much of what I haven't, most parent's don't seem to care.

    I've met people who go to mass and who professed not even to believe in God, I suppose they were raised with it, it was a social opportunity, a habit, a civic duty even though they don't believe in God, I joke you not, never mind all that goes with that.

    If it wasn't for Catholicism, you and your parents/grandparents be subjects, not citizens. You really ought to read up on a bit of history and have a bit more respect for institutions that helped to lay the foundation stones for this State.


  • Options
    #29
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    shes_crazy wrote: »
    If it wasn't for Catholicism, you and your parents/grandparents be subjects, not citizens. You really ought to read up on a bit of history and have a bit more respect for institutions that helped to lay the foundation stones for this State.

    Only a theist could write this sentence. It is complete with belief and zero facts.


  • Options
    #30
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    ElleEm wrote: »
    Did your daughter get a choice in her christening and communion too?

    Yes. You must be christened to make your confirmation. But you don't have to had made your communion. There are a few of her peers being christened for this purpose prior to their confirmation.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    jimd2 wrote: »
    It's a Catholic country, the majority of people here are Catholic.

    The next census needs to differentiate between regular Joe Catholics, and those who treat it as a lifestyle choice. Then perhaps we'll get some clearer indications about the 'majority'.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



Advertisement