Communions/confirmations, utter farce?

Sarky

Galvasean wrote: »

Actually, what the hell am I doing having this discussion?
IT'S NOT EVEN JUNE YET!!!!

That's how they get you, Jernal, they keep pushing for more and more ridiculous scenarios until before you know it you're talking about the Christmas ten years from now instead of the next one.

Those religious folks, they're a wily bunch, you couldn't be up to them at all at all.

Galvasean

Sarky wrote: »

That's how they get you, Jernal,

I'm not Jernal, but thanks for implying a sense of gravitas.

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm not Jernal, but thanks for implying a sense of gravitas.

Linky?


:pac:

Turtwig

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm not Jernal, but thanks for implying a sense of gravitas.

I don't even know what you mean by this.

Sarky

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm not Jernal, but thanks for implying a sense of gravitas.

You can't prove that you're NOT Jernal!


Lousy confusing mobile site with its ugly non-Cloud skin...

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

You can't prove that you're NOT Jernal!


Lousy confusing mobile site with its ugly non-Cloud skin...

Oh indeed, it's very tough, our awesomeness is immeasurable and that also makes us indistinguishable at times.
Sean, let me say it here and now. You, sir, are awesome!

shes_crazy

Galvasean wrote: »

Or more to the point, the Pagan practice of putting up a tree in your house and decorating it as the Bible strictly forbids...

You do realise that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for a greater purpose?

Bannasidhe

shes_crazy wrote: »

You do realise that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for a greater purpose?

Has it? Or has the paganism at the heart of Christianity subverted it?


Btw 'pagan' comes from the Latin paganii meaning forest dwellers in the same way as the word 'culchi' comes from Coillte (forest). It just means people who live outside settlements like villages/towns/cities.

endacl

shes_crazy wrote: »

You do realise that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for a greater purpose?

Good man. Bring that crazy ON!

Mardy Bum

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Has it? Or has the paganism at the heart of Christianity subverted it?

Dancing at Lughnasa is a brilliant exploration of this.

Galvasean

shes_crazy wrote: »

You do realise that Christianity successfully conquered paganism and appropriated its festivals for a greater purpose?

Just like how the Godless are currently conquering Christianity and appropriating Christmas for greater purposes? :pac:

This is fun.

Tordelback

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

They also supported the British Whig party over the Irish Home Rule until it became obvious the latter (Founded by Protestant Issaac Butt and later led by fellow Protestant Charles Stewart Parnell) had the support of the Irish people.

Perhaps most critically it was the Catholic Church's moral assassination of Parnell that destroyed this island's best hope for peaceful Home Rule, and the independence that would have followed in time.

Doctor Strange

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Has it? Or has the paganism at the heart of Christianity subverted it?


Btw 'pagan' comes from the Latin paganii meaning forest dwellers in the same way as the word 'culchi' comes from Coillte (forest). It just means people who live outside settlements like villages/towns/cities.

I was never aware of that.

Also, Christmas....presents.....food....movies etc.

Brian Shanahan

shes_crazy wrote: »

So you're saying that Catholicism had no role in gaining independence from Britain?!

No it did not. Most of the leaders of the various republican movements up until deV got in to the Dáil with FF were pretty agnostic wrt religion in the public state sphere.

And quite a few of our most prominent and best rebel leaders were Protestants.

Actually deV had a lot to answer for by destroying the secular nature of Irish nationalism with his 1937 constitution.

Brian Shanahan

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Turtwig

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Now, now, most of the children are obviously still Catholic. Their parents may be still catholic it's just the whole Church stances on going to Mass, premarital sex, gay marriage, fish on fridays, frequent confessions etc. that they don't agree with.

Brian Shanahan

otto_26 wrote: »

Ya hate all those hypocrites that celebrate Christmas and they try to justify celebrating Christmas by saying it's not about the birth of Jesus to them, so that's why it's OK for them to celebrate the religious event.

A) Christmas is a pagan festival, with origins in Northern Europe. Therefore if you want to talk about stealing it, take the beam from your own eye first.

Jesus wasn't born at christmas. According to the bible the best date for his birthday would be sometime in the Autumn. Shepards do not leave their flocks out on hills in winter, not even in Israel.

Penn

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

I don't think it matters when you make communion, but confirmation definitely shouldn't be until you're 18. You're confirming that you will continue to be a christian for the rest of your life, and that the promises your parents made for you at your baptism, you will continue with yourself. That's basically what the ceremony is. I was 11 when I made my confirmation. Not even nearly 12, about 11 and 3 months. I made that decision because I was told I was making that decision.

It's complete horsesh*t that that takes place at such a young age. Like others, my confirmation was merely how I earned money for a Playstation. That was all I was thinking of.

If confirmation didn't happen until you were 18 and there was no big ceremony about it, many people wouldn't bother with it.

swampgas

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Just was listening to Joe Duffy a few minutes ago, and there was a priest on from Carlow who made an interesting anecdotal observation, that of the c.250 kids getting their communion annually in his parish, he generally only sees about 40 the week after and 20 the week after that. So it is clearly not done for religious reasons for most.

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

I'm sure he'll be hearing from the bishop before very long.

shruikan2553

I would be interested in seeing the results of an experiment where you offer a class of students doing their confirmation a list of religions to join with how much money they would receive beside it.

Catholic €500
Protestant €600
Jewish €700
Muslim €800
Scientology €1000

Have 2 or 3 classes asked separately without contact from other students and another 2-3 where the students can walk around and discuss with each other.

Obliq

Great idea! I'll suggest it to my teen to bring up in CPSE or RE or whatever they're calling it now. I can pretty much guess the outcome, but the discussions as to which religions could subsequently have a hold over you would be interesting....

Oh wait, I didn't read the "doing their confirmation" part properly. Will have to ask the 11yr old militantly atheist son instead...

shruikan2553

Obliq wrote: »

Great idea! I'll suggest it to my teen to bring up in CPSE or RE or whatever they're calling it now. I can pretty much guess the outcome, but the discussions as to which religions could subsequently have a hold over you would be interesting....

Oh wait, I didn't read the "doing their confirmation" part properly. Will have to ask the 11yr old militantly atheist son instead...

Other ages would work too, I just said confirmation age because they would be already talking about a religious event where they will be getting money

Obliq

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Other ages would work too, I just said confirmation age because they would be already talking about a religious event where they will be getting money

Yeah, true. It'd be interesting to note the difference in the outcomes between different age groups too. I reckon the older kids would be much more inclined not to sign up to a religion for financial gain, or any religion for that matter.

shruikan2553

Obliq wrote: »

Yeah, true. It'd be interesting to note the difference in the outcomes between different age groups too. I reckon the older kids would be much more inclined not to sign up to a religion for financial gain, or any religion for that matter.

Around communion it would be all about the money. The older they are some might think that their parents/grandparents are catholic and gran would get angry if they werent so decide to keep the piece and become catholic.

That would be another thing to look at, why did they choose a certain religion? Money, family expectations or spiritual.

the culture of deference

Sarky wrote: »

Somebody give me funding and a barrel full of monkeys, and I'll make it happen.

Some about to be free monkeys here

Enda Kenny is planning to set up a high-powered Dail committee to specifically scrutinise legislation after the Seanad is scrapped.

Magenta wrote: »

There are women here too, you know. I know that your religion treats us as second-class citizens and sees us as little more than baby vessels, but we do at least deserve to be acknowledged.

38 seconds

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I don't know if I've even told my son that Christians think it's Jesus birthday. Might have mentioned it, but he wouldn't care a less so long as Santa is coming. I like Santa because it's a fairytale full of magic, but unlike religion children are expected to realise the truth at a certain age.

There is a great scene in the trailer park boys where Ricky (main character) talking with his dad reveals he believes the big guy in the sky is santa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuLjGoLCshM

Sarky wrote: »

You can't prove that you're NOT Jernal!


Lousy confusing mobile site with its ugly non-Cloud skin...

Jernal Sarky and Galve are the trilogy on boards

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

He also went on to make two sensible suggestions, a) take the preparation out of school, to lessen the pressure on families not really interested in participating from doing so, and b) having young people doing the ceremony at a later age in order that they make an informed decision to have communion/confirmation or not.

Or better still, the government introduces a nationwide enquiry into the church (like Oz), then the church is removed from dealing with children, it's assets seized and the money put to good use in early intervention projects.


They don't even want to let go of their 94% stranglehold on primary schools, no one would go to church if they brought this in. More soundbites

Turtwig

the culture of deference wrote: »

Jernal Sarky and Galve are the trilogy on boards

Sarky and me in the one sentence. I think I want die now.

Bannasidhe

Jernal wrote: »

Sarky and me in the one sentence. I think I want die now.

Could have been worse. It could have been Jer, Sark and Galve.

Turtwig

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Could have been worse. It could have been Jer, Sark and Galve.

Not really for that one using cognitive dissonance to dissociate my name with the post would have been easier than it is for the one where my full name appears. It's at times likes these I wish I could do the mental gymnastics that others can so easily master.

Vojera

I'm now some sort of agnostic, but as a teen I read a lot about other religions and flirted with becoming pagan or maybe Buddhist. The attitude of all the adults around me was "You're far too young to decide on something like that" but they couldn't explain why I was too young to view nature as worthy of worship but doing my confirmation and locking myself into Catholicism a few years earlier was okay.

Bannasidhe

Vojera wrote: »

I'm now some sort of agnostic, but as a teen I read a lot about other religions and flirted with becoming pagan or maybe Buddhist. The attitude of all the adults around me was "You're far too young to decide on something like that" but they couldn't explain why I was too young to view nature as worthy of worship but doing my confirmation and locking myself into Catholicism a few years earlier was okay.

Soon to be 7 year old Hermoine (the granddaughter) is in the same position - she can't understand why she is too young to not believe there is a god but is old enough make her communion next year. She is rapidly running out of patience with the people who tell her she will understand when she is older but refuse to tell her why, in that case, she is not making her communion when she is older.
Asked if she wouldn't like to wear a beautiful dress she replied she has a beautiful dress and is planning on wearing it for her birthday and frankly doesn't believe there could possibly be a more beautiful dress than the one she already has...she would like some new shoes.
Asked if she wouldn't like to get loads of money she replied she would like 20 euro to take herself and her brother to Monkey Maze twice but she gets that from her great auntie every birthday anyway...