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DCM 2013: Mentored Novices Thread......Take 2

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    #332
    Woden
    Registered Users Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭Woden


    Post here from CM with the plan and a link to the google doc the training starting from 24th June

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83947539&postcount=67

    Was planning to start on the 17th myself to give a week incase of injury or sickness.


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    #333
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    ecoli wrote: »
    Did you roll the TFL or the ITB?

    The ITB is a very thin sheet of muscle so rolling on it isnt going to help as it is effectively a tendon for the most part. If you are foam rolling make sure to go above the ITB up around the TFL and Glute Medius

    Twas the Illiotibial Band alright:), it had shortened or tightened up because I had upped the mileage from nothing drawing a ligament across the side of my knee bone. My maintainance regime when properly training is to work a sliotar into the glutes, roll the IT Band and that lateral front thigh muscle on the Grid followed by a roasting of the calves with 'The Stick'.

    Pain is your friend. :)


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    #334
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Mr Slow wrote: »

    Pain is your friend. :)

    No doubt on this one but I have found that rolling the IT band is about as useful as trying to break a rock with a rubber hammer all you are doing is pushing it into the outside quad muscle. The TFL actually inserts into the IT band so in fact it is the TFL which pulls on the IT band which in turn pulls the knee laterally.

    I agree foam rolling will help but you will have more success loosening out the source of the tightness (which to be fair you were probably getting a bit with the sliotar on the glutes)


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    #335
    Milknosugar
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Milknosugar


    Fit Magazine city series 12th May in Phoenix Park

    I rocked up to this yesterday a little tired and a little demotivated especially with the rain! I was worried about what I call my shin splints, but my physio calls them something else - soft tissue damage. The area around 3-5 inches directly up from the inside ankle on both legs. HAs anyone experienced anything like it? I put it down to tennis the last few weeks as Id been fine up to then. Tennis can be fairly high impact.

    Anyway, the race started 3 mins early and i had to run to the start line which meant I was nearly Paddy last. Knowing my speed, i probably would be! I just went very slowly but I felt pain every step of the way.

    It was 2 laps of 5 km and the most disheartening thing was just coming through the finish line the first time at 35 mins, the ladies winner flies by me - fair play to her, but tough to know she can run exactly twice as fast!! And I had another painful 5 km to go!

    There was an old lad on a bike at one stage and one of the marshalls was trying to get him off the running course but he was having none of it - started shouting "get out of my way" and ramming him with his bike! Ive never seen anything like it. there was another path 2 feet away. Some people!! It took my mind off the legs for a minute anyway.

    I liked the motivational signs along the way..one said "pain is nothing compared to the feeling of quitting". I got in at a pretty unimpressive 1hr8mins but I did run the whole way and ran the second half a little faster.

    I have a physio appointment tomorrow eve. Hopefully a couple of days rest after means Ill be able to do 10 miles at the weekend, and then the burren half the following week. I m not aiming for a time. Ill settle for run/walking it and just take in the scenery.


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    #336
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    ecoli wrote: »
    No doubt on this one but I have found that rolling the IT band is about as useful as trying to break a rock with a rubber hammer all you are doing is pushing it into the outside quad muscle. The TFL actually inserts into the IT band so in fact it is the TFL which pulls on the IT band which in turn pulls the knee laterally.

    I agree foam rolling will help but you will have more success loosening out the source of the tightness (which to be fair you were probably getting a bit with the sliotar on the glutes)

    I've just realised I appear to be contradicting you L, I bow to your superior knowledge. :o


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    #337
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    greenb wrote: »
    Thanks Mr (not so) Slow (I've read your log!).....

    I've already had two torture sessions going for third tonight:eek:!.........My Grid arrived in the post from amphibian King on Friday........so I'm attacking this injury as best I can. How long were you out with ITBS, and how was your return to running? My physio is advising a lot of rest and I believe this injury is very prone to reoccurence if not dealt with. It's very encouraging for me to hear that you've had no problems since so I would be really interested to hear how you handled it.

    As for my racing history.........there isn't much of it. I've only done a couple of 5ks and one 5 mile race (Raheny this year). My 5k pb is 24:06 and I was truely shocked and stunned to beat 40mins (just!) for the 5 miles.


    Obviously every injury is individual and you have to take the required time out, I on the other hand ran when I could bear it, sometimes when it was unbearable, not the way to go. Runners get so used to discomfort they miss or pay no heed to warning signs. In keeping with my ITBS approach I ran myself into the ground in 2011 for a 3:29 marathon, 18 months later and I'm just starting to train again.

    Heed the warnings, listen to your physio, be well! ;)


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    #338
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Mr Slow wrote: »
    I've just realised I appear to be contradicting you L, I bow to your superior knowledge. :o

    Please don't better to challenge anything you don't agree with (especially with something like this that is debated by therapists).

    You can be damn sure that Kurt and tRR wouldn't pull punches so why should the rest of us :pac:


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    #339
    MazzR
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭MazzR


    14 miles last week. Not happy with that. Start of a new week today,will get 4-5 done this evening for a start...


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    #340
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    Milknosugar wrote: »
    Fit Magazine city series 12th May in Phoenix Park

    I rocked up to this yesterday a little tired and a little demotivated especially with the rain! I was worried about what I call my shin splints, but my physio calls them something else - soft tissue damage. The area around 3-5 inches directly up from the inside ankle on both legs. HAs anyone experienced anything like it? I put it down to tennis the last few weeks as Id been fine up to then. Tennis can be fairly high impact.

    Anyway, the race started 3 mins early and i had to run to the start line which meant I was nearly Paddy last. Knowing my speed, i probably would be! I just went very slowly but I felt pain every step of the way.

    It was 2 laps of 5 km and the most disheartening thing was just coming through the finish line the first time at 35 mins, the ladies winner flies by me - fair play to her, but tough to know she can run exactly twice as fast!! And I had another painful 5 km to go!

    There was an old lad on a bike at one stage and one of the marshalls was trying to get him off the running course but he was having none of it - started shouting "get out of my way" and ramming him with his bike! Ive never seen anything like it. there was another path 2 feet away. Some people!! It took my mind off the legs for a minute anyway.

    I liked the motivational signs along the way..one said "pain is nothing compared to the feeling of quitting". I got in at a pretty unimpressive 1hr8mins but I did run the whole way and ran the second half a little faster.

    I have a physio appointment tomorrow eve. Hopefully a couple of days rest after means Ill be able to do 10 miles at the weekend, and then the burren half the following week. I m not aiming for a time. Ill settle for run/walking it and just take in the scenery.

    Well done milknosugar, really sounds like you dug in deep there! The weather conditions were serious over the weekend:eek:Hope the physio goes well!

    I'm after spending the evening icing, rolling and deep heating my calves! A well needed step back week this week so going to try focus more on getting my stretch/rolling routine up to scratch!


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    #341
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    MazzR wrote: »
    14 miles last week. Not happy with that. Start of a new week today,will get 4-5 done this evening for a start...

    Every bit counts MazzR, must be hard to fit training in around bringing up kids


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    #342
    AlsoRan
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭AlsoRan


    Decided I'd finally stop lurking and join in on this thread as I'm signed up for the marathon this year, just went as far as the DCM half-marathon in '12. Was addicted to the half-marathon thread last year with Zooming and Darren, it kept me motivated. I naturally believe I won't complete races so signing up for races forces me to commit to them and reading about other people's struggles makes me think that I'm not doing this in isolation!

    Now to the all-important questions:

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    I've only been running a year, starting with the mini-marathon.
    5k PB Parkrun April '13 27.18
    10K PB Clane Oct '12 59.XX (just scraped under)
    1/2 mara Wex April '13 2.12

    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
    No, my speed is still non-existent but I'm lasting and recovering a lot better than before

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
    I was covering around 25 miles a week (I'm old school re miles) as I have done two halfs so far this year, Wicklow and Wexford. I'm now covering just 10-15 for the next few weeks to give myself a breather before picking it up for the Clontarf half, the DCM race series, the Athlone 3/4 and the marathon training programme.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
    I would love to finish close to 4 hours, being realistic given my half times, close to 4 1/2 is more realistic.

    •How many days a week can you train ?
    I tend to do something at least 5 days a week. Usually running on 3 days, then zumba and pilates on another 2 days, the pilates in particular helps sort out my muscles.

    •Why are you running this marathon ?
    Most of my family are asking this question and sometimes I am as well. I really want to complete to prove to myself I can do it and I'm hoping that the races I'll have run by then this year will have set me up for it.


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    #343
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    AlsoRan wrote: »
    Decided I'd finally stop lurking and join in on this thread as I'm signed up for the marathon this year, just went as far as the DCM half-marathon in '12. Was addicted to the half-marathon thread last year with Zooming and Darren, it kept me motivated. I naturally believe I won't complete races so signing up for races forces me to commit to them and reading about other people's struggles makes me think that I'm not doing this in isolation!

    Now to the all-important questions:

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    I've only been running a year, starting with the mini-marathon.
    5k PB Parkrun April '13 27.18
    10K PB Clane Oct '12 59.XX (just scraped under)
    1/2 mara Wex April '13 2.12

    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
    No, my speed is still non-existent but I'm lasting and recovering a lot better than before

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
    I was covering around 25 miles a week (I'm old school re miles) as I have done two halfs so far this year, Wicklow and Wexford. I'm now covering just 10-15 for the next few weeks to give myself a breather before picking it up for the Clontarf half, the DCM race series, the Athlone 3/4 and the marathon training programme.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
    I would love to finish close to 4 hours, being realistic given my half times, close to 4 1/2 is more realistic.

    •How many days a week can you train ?
    I tend to do something at least 5 days a week. Usually running on 3 days, then zumba and pilates on another 2 days, the pilates in particular helps sort out my muscles.

    •Why are you running this marathon ?
    Most of my family are asking this question and sometimes I am as well. I really want to complete to prove to myself I can do it and I'm hoping that the races I'll have run by then this year will have set me up for it.

    Welcome! We've pretty similar race times AlsoRan... Im hoping to get a little faster over the next while, best of luck with the training:)


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    #344
    rob w
    Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭rob w


    And so it begins....

    My plan started today, (doing a different plan than the HH1), so did an easy 3 mile run. Lovely day out for it too, would have liked to keep going but best to stick to the plan, ill try get out for a walk later before the sun dissapears again! Im going to get a training log going on here when I get some time to get around to it too, just to keep track and a bit of motivation too!

    So the wheels are in motion, all I need to do now is keep up....:pac::pac::pac:


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    #345
    shortstuff!
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭shortstuff!


    rob w wrote: »
    And so it begins....

    My plan started today, (doing a different plan than the HH1), so did an easy 3 mile run. Lovely day out for it too, would have liked to keep going but best to stick to the plan, ill try get out for a walk later before the sun dissapears again! Im going to get a training log going on here when I get some time to get around to it too, just to keep track and a bit of motivation too!

    So the wheels are in motion, all I need to do now is keep up....:pac::pac::pac:

    Nice early start! What plan are you following rob?


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    #346
    rob w
    Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭rob w


    shortstuff! wrote: »
    Nice early start! What plan are you following rob?

    Its the hal higdon marathon 3 plan, there should be a link to it back in my first post on this thread!

    Yeah its quite early alright, but its because its only 3 days of running a week rather than 4, so it allows 2 days of crosstraining per week, which lets me incorporate some time on my bike too!


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    #347
    Nappy
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭Nappy


    Hey Guys!

    I'm extremely new to running. I did my first 5K last august in a relay race with work. I've been keeping at it in the gym and over the last 2 months I run about 2-3 5K's a week. I haven't really pushed it on the distance yet. I just saw this thread today and it got me all obsessed about completing a marathon. I had a look at the race series to the dublin marathon. I'd be so proud If I did it but I'm wondering am I pushing it too far to expect to run my first marathon in October.

    Now to the all-important questions:

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    2 5K races: PB = 21 mins


    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
    No but I have only been running 5Ks

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
    Currently finishing off exams. I am normally doing 3 x 5Ks a week plus gym. I will follow the hal higdon plan once finished and am keen to get back on my bike.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
    I would love to finish close to 3:45.

    •How many days a week can you train ?
    I will run 3-4 times per week following the HH plan and also frequent the gym. I will sign up for the race series also to keep me motivated.

    •Why are you running this marathon ?
    I want to tick it off the bucket list! Looks great on the CV too!


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    #348
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    CV? Never thought of that :-p

    You'll be OK if you train sensibly and don't get carried away. At this stage last year I had yet to run my first 5k and I completed a 4-mile, an 8k, a 10-mile and the DCM (4:02) by Oct. In retrospect, the most impressive part was showing up at DCM fresh and without injury, and being able to run it consistently without stopping for stretches, the toilet, a walk, etc.

    edit: oh yeah, and I'm over 50, so if you're a young lad you should be well able for it.


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    #349
    Nappy
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭Nappy


    murphd77 wrote: »
    CV? Never thought of that :-p

    You'll be OK if you train sensibly and don't get carried away. At this stage last year I had yet to run my first 5k and I completed a 4-mile, an 8k, a 10-mile and the DCM (4:02) by Oct. In retrospect, the most impressive part was showing up at DCM fresh and without injury, and being able to run it consistently without stopping for stretches, the toilet, a walk, etc.

    edit: oh yeah, and I'm over 50, so if you're a young lad you should be well able for it.

    Major respect! That some achievement. I'm exactly half your age so now I have no excuse. DCM here I come!


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    #350
    MazzR
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭MazzR


    Did 10k with hubby yesterday just to see if I could and did it in 59.29.! Happy with that. My calves are sooooore though now


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    #351
    MazzR
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭MazzR


    Oh and here's the thing with me, I get faster (obviously not fast but faster) as I go along, and feel stronger. Yesterday for example, I moaned and groaned and wanted to stop for the 1st couple of k, then when hubby had to stop at around 8k, I was flying (my version of flying anyway). I've a 5k race on Sunday with my club and I honestly reckon ill be last. I've found though, if they are longer I am better...


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    #352
    donnacha
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭donnacha


    Been lurking around these parts for the last couple of months and have finally decided its time to join in. So first off a bit about me ...a couple of years back the doc weighed me in and I'd hit 16 1/2 stone - took that visit for me to take the thumb out and join a gym. That was June 2011 and over the course of the following 18 mths I managed to get my weight down to a respectable 13 stone with a variety of diet and exercise. I found at the gym I could do 10k runs on the threadmill and liked the challenge of beating previous times etc. Though I did do a couple of the urbantrails series last year I only really started running outdoors in February this year.

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    4k Urbantrails/Marlay Park Feb '12 21:32
    8k Urbantrails/ St Annes Apr '12 44:55
    10k Samsung Night Run Apr '13 49:25

    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
    No, am okay at pacing myself (thanks to the garmin forerunner), though I have no idea how I'll be able to keep running for 4+hrs :)

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level
    I was doing a mix of weights machines and threadmill until Feb this year, on average covering 20kms/wk on threadmill. Since then I haven't seen the gym since and have been running 3 times a wk covering 25kms.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
    Dream finish would be to be coming in sub 4hrs - need to be getting some longer runs under the belt to see how realistic that is. I'm going to do the Rock and Roll Half Marathon first and my target time for that will be 1:50

    •How many days a week can you train ?
    3 kids at home and work are going to come between this some weeks but I'm planning 4 days of running and hoping to fit in 1 day cross (planning to buy a bike)

    •Why are you running this marathon ?
    Because hopefully I can :P
    Main reasons are to keep the weight off and to do this before I turn 40 next yr.

    So now to look to you all for advice.
    My training plan commenced yesterday as I have the Half Marathon on 5th August. I'm planning to follow the 12 wk HalHigdon Novice 2 Program. If all goes well with that then I'm planning to jump in on the HalHigdon Novice 2 Marathon plan on wk 8 of the 18 wk plan. I've looked at the two plans and they seem to fit neatly in with one another.
    Would this approach work? Or would any of you advise of a more suitable plan based on my previous times/target times?


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    #353
    career_move
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    Welcome to the Novices thread Donnacha. Have you anymore races planned between the HM and DCM?


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    #354
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Hello:)
    Hope it's ok to join the party if I'm following a different plan.

    Have you raced before?
    5k MSB March 2013 - 25:50
    Wexford Half Marathon - 2:05 (was on track for sub 2 up to 9/10 miles but had to deal with a personal problem which ruined my race. 3 miles of hell made for a very unhappy finish. Race time not a reflection of where I'm at in training at the moment)

    Do you need to take breaks in training?
    No

    How much training do you currently do?
    Running about 18 months. Started with C25k from absolute scratch. No history of running or any sport. Lazy cow for 30 odd years.
    I currently run 6 days a week (7 if allowed :)) and cover 40+ miles. I am following a fantastic training plan ;) which is tailor made for me based on my heart rate training zones. I do hill work, tempo work, a m/lsr (longest 13 miles) and lots and lots of very slow recovery and easy paced miles based on a percentage of my max hr (found during a fitness test) to steadily build up my aerobic base. I do double runs a few days a week and have toyed with the idea of the odd triple! Overkill for a newbie, I know I know..
    I am doing a new core workout programme as I want to build a much stronger upper and middle-body section. I do lots of planks and press-ups and some free weights at home. Foam roll a lot which is keeping me injury free as I haven't been to the physio since I started doing this! Was there every few months last year.

    What time do you want to achieve? Dream and realistic?
    Dream: 3:59:59
    Realistic: This is a tough one. I am working very hard for this although I hate calling it "work" as I love every second of my training. I have no natural ability for running, I'm actually really bad at it :o but I'm giving 110% to this marathon so I hope to do well. It's early days so I won't know what's realistic until after the half in September.

    How many days a week can you train?
    6. Would train 7 if allowed :P. wish they'd make an 8 day week:D

    Why are you running this marathon?
    Don't know why but always promised myself I'd do it someday. Always admired people who completed marathons. Watched my brother do it twice and was jealous.
    It would be a nice way to celebrate my 2nd running anniversary almost to the day that I started Couch 25k when I ran for 1 minute and really thought I would collapse and die from exhaustion :o
    I'm a running junkie so it's an excuse to run more miles without my oh and family/friends thinking I'm losing it. I just LOVE running:D
    Also, I think it's an interesting experiment, to see if someone who sucks at running can make some kind of decent job out of a marathon by total dedication, hard work and commitment alone.

    As it's my birthday today, I'm off soon to enjoy a rare night of debauchery and can enjoy it guilt free as I did tomorrow's tempo session earlier today. 3 miles warm up, 20 mins @ 8:30ish min/miles and a long cooldown. 8 miles covered in total. Feel great after it:)

    Let the party begin.


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    #355
    vitani
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭vitani


    Ososlo wrote: »
    How much training do you currently do?
    Running about 18 months. Started with C25k from absolute scratch. No history of running or any sport. Lazy cow for 30 odd years.
    I currently run 6 days a week (7 if allowed :)) and cover 40+ miles. I am following a fantastic training plan ;) which is tailor made for me based on my heart rate training zones. I do hill work, tempo work, a m/lsr (longest 13 miles) and lots and lots of very slow recovery and easy paced miles based on a percentage of my max hr (found during a fitness test) to steadily build up my aerobic base. I do double runs a few days a week and have toyed with the idea of the odd triple! Overkill for a newbie, I know I know..
    I am doing a new core workout programme as I want to build a much stronger upper and middle-body section. I do lots of planks and press-ups and some free weights at home. Foam roll a lot which is keeping me injury free as I haven't been to the physio since I started doing this! Was there every few months last year.

    If there was a prize for commitment, I think you'd win it. Best of luck throughout the training - I'll be watching with interest.

    Enjoy the birthday celebrations!


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    #356
    statss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭statss


    I'm interested to here about this tailor made plan Ososlo, care to tell us more about it? Sounds like it might be from the P & D book?

    I signed up & paid for DCM2013 and the race series today. No. 1202 :cool:


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    #357
    donnacha
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭donnacha


    career_move wrote: »
    Welcome to the Novices thread Donnacha. Have you anymore races planned between the HM and DCM?

    Thanks career_move. I've been considering entering the Flatline HM in Athlone -its on mid Sept. My training plans all call for a couple of other races also so I'll see where I can fit these in between juggling family duties and work.


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    #358
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    Ososlo wrote: »
    How much training do you currently do?
    Running about 18 months. Started with C25k from absolute scratch. No history of running or any sport. Lazy cow for 30 odd years.
    I currently run 6 days a week (7 if allowed :)) and cover 40+ miles. I am following a fantastic training plan ;) which is tailor made for me based on my heart rate training zones. I do hill work, tempo work, a m/lsr (longest 13 miles) and lots and lots of very slow recovery and easy paced miles based on a percentage of my max hr (found during a fitness test) to steadily build up my aerobic base. I do double runs a few days a week and have toyed with the idea of the odd triple! Overkill for a newbie, I know I know..
    I am doing a new core workout programme as I want to build a much stronger upper and middle-body section. I do lots of planks and press-ups and some free weights at home. Foam roll a lot which is keeping me injury free as I haven't been to the physio since I started doing this! Was there every few months last year. .

    Looks like you're well set, stay injury free and you'll have a great debut.


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    #359
    career_move
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    donnacha wrote: »
    Thanks career_move. I've been considering entering the Flatline HM in Athlone -its on mid Sept. My training plans all call for a couple of other races also so I'll see where I can fit these in between juggling family duties and work.
    Good stuff. Sounds like you have it all worked out. I followed Hal Higdon Novice 2 last year but added in extra mileage. You should be good to jump in at week 8 when your finished the HM plan. Or you can follow my plan which has the Athlone HM included. Just make sure with either that you take it easy for the few days after the race.


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    #360
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    statss wrote: »
    I'm interested to here about this tailor made plan Ososlo, care to tell us more about it?

    Likewise - sounds like an epic plan. Would love to see it. Just make sure you get enough recovery time (and I don't necessarily mean rest).


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    #361
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    Likewise - sounds like an epic plan. Would love to see it. Just make sure you get enough recovery time (and I don't necessarily mean rest).

    what kind of recovery do you mean Dilbert?

    Plan ain't from no book. Not an established static plan. Just a plan put together for me by someone else. Based on heart rate training. Involves lots of very slow running. Patience required :D


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