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The sex myth

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    #422
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Saying the victim is partially or totally responsible is part of the problem and it is condoning rape. Why did you flirt? You asked for it!
    Took a drink? You asked for it! Hell, that was even a legal ruling in one case described in the article. We'll cut your compensation (who wants compensation anyway) because you were asking for it
    We also have the lowest conviction rate


    More "partially or totally responsible"

    This is not "1 isolated case", this is 29% of people

    I think he means that if for example I drank so much I passed out, and when i woke up i discovered my phone and wallet were gone people would think that by putting myself into that situation I bare partial responsibility. That's not to say I deserved to be robbed. That the thief is any less responsible for their actions. Or that the thief should not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. It just means that there is extra responsibility placed on me as well.

    The same with rape. The guy is still a rapist. he should still be prosecuted. There should be no "open window" defense for his actions (by that I mean someone who walks past a house sees the window open and jumps in to rob the place. "But your honor, the place was asking to be robbed"). But people should accept responsibility for their actions. There are many dangers out there. And everyone should take responsibility for themselves and make sure they don't end up in a situation that helps a potential attacker.

    And note, I'm only talking about one particular type of assault. there are loads of types and most i would imagine aren't like that. just as most thiefts are not from people asleep on the street.

    EDITED: for one typo that actually completly changed the meaning of a sentance. oops.


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    #423
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Hmm, is there a link to any of the studies themselves, I'd be intrested in seeing the info. I'm not saying they're making it up or anything, but it's be intresting to see how it was carried out. Did they create scenarios or did they just throw out questionnaires, was it in certain areas, random, the actual questions themselves, it'd be interesting

    And tbh surveys aren't as reliable as you would think, as the term "partly to blame" or "some of the blame" could encompass anything from, "it was her fault",to, "That basterd was attracted by that". And it doesn't actually account how much blame is actually given to the victim, and the percentage based on the percentage of blame given may be lower. Not that I'm excusing those comments, as, it goes without saying, rape is a sadistic act that the person who is raped is not to blame for.

    I don't really agree with the theory in it's entirety of Rape Culture, but some points of it I do agree with. But I don't think it's a good theory tbh.

    I think blame culture is a better bet. I think it's quite common for Irish people to blame the person attacked in any situation. If someone is walking down a dark limerick street is mugged, then I think a lot of people would blame him. Where in reality, it was the muggers fault for actually committing the crime.


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    #424
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    I think blame culture is a better bet. I think it's quite common for Irish people to blame the person attacked in any situation. If someone is walking down a dark limerick street is mugged, then I think a lot of people would blame him. Where in reality, it was the muggers fault for actually committing the crime.

    Depends. There are times where someone is just reckless.

    Thankfully, the world is getting better. Compared with 50 years ago the awareness of something like rape is a lot higher. But there's a lot further to go. And I think that my grandchildren (Should I even have children) will still live in a world with dangers and will still have to take precautions. But hopefully it won't be as dangerous as the world is right now.


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    #425
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I think that if a young guy got really drunk and walked around a dodgy part of town, resulting in a mugging, there wouldn't be such a big deal about people saying he really should have been more careful. People who felt this way wouldn't be accused of condoning robbery and blaming the victim, or being in some way part of a 'robbery culture.'

    But when the crime is rape, say the same thing about a girl (or guy), and you get accused of condoning rape, blaming the victim, being part of a 'rape culture.'

    I don't get the difference really. And I don't get the idea that it has to be an 'either/or' situation. 'You shouldn't be teaching people how to avoid being raped, you should be teaching people not to think rape is ok.' Why can't you do both?

    Opportunistic crime happens. People teach their kids to make sure the door is locked at night, and the car windows are closed if they park it somewhere, to close their bag so their wallet/phone etc isn't visible, to reduce the liklihood of suffering opportunistic crime. Is it wrong to apply the same argument to a sexual crime (I know that not all sexual assaults are opportunistic)?

    Also, the idea that if you don't consider a slap on the bum to be sexual assault, you therefore must think there is nothing wrong with it, is idiotic.


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    #426
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    tritium wrote: »
    To be honest quite a few of the links you've posted are less than choice to
    Your argument. The jezebel.com link for example openly admits at the en that they put their own spin and definition on the result they quote. This is notwithstanding that the methodology isn't available to be critiqued. If the infamous Koss survey teaches us anything it's the importance of open disclosure around this as it can radically alter the findings. The nisvs survey concedes it's suffers from significant biases. Both relate to the US! If the arguement is that Ireland has a rape culture then they add nothing to it!

    One of the biggest problems in this area (from both sides) is the Amount of pop science and poor quality research that thrown about as verified fact or spun to advance an agenda


    I don't think it needs to be specifically irish, but yeah, it was just a very quick google of surveys done


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    #427
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Hmm, is there a link to any of the studies themselves, I'd be intrested in seeing the info. I'm not saying they're making it up or anything, but it's be intresting to see how it was carried out. Did they create scenarios or did they just throw out questionnaires, was it in certain areas, random, the actual questions themselves, it'd be interesting.

    I posted this on the previous page:

    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618

    It gives the results of a similar poll carried out in the U.K.

    This link: http://www.amnesty.org.uk/uploads/documents/doc_16619.doc downloads a word.doc with the key findings.


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    #428
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    Yeah I'm just clutching at straws trying to find any ways to be offended here. I mean grabbing a rape victims ass and tits on a regular basis on nights out...sure I should just chillax a bit more yeah? No biggie :rolleyes:


    How is anyone now in all fairness Jaffa supposed to know you are a victim of rape unless you tell them?

    Can I just ask btw which do you with more- the word victim or survivor? I know you'll say they're only words and we shouldn't get too hung up on words, but if we're all expected to tackle a problem, it's important for the sake of clear communication that we're all using the same language and we all understand and have a clear definition of the words we're using.

    I think people are getting too hung up on the term "rape culture". I actually don't go around using that term, only for this thread so when discussing rape I wouldn't really use that term normally but it's kind of latched on as a common theme here.

    Right, so you are supporting the use of a term that you don't use yourself and you're expecting people not to get too hung up about it? Well people DO kinda get hung up about it when they're being held responsible for something over which they have absolutely no control of whatsoever- another person's thought processes.

    I can raise my son to the best of my ability, teach him to respect people, the whole nine yards, but that doesn't say that like I said earlier he can disregard all I've taught him and exercise his free will to rape somebody. Rapists have relatives too remember, they just don't care, so the whole "think about your relatives and friends", that doesn't really wash with them.

    Nonetheless, I wouldn't deny there's a rape culture in Ireland, I would just avoid using that term as it seems to distance men from the problem; men that are not 'rape apologists', everyday decent men. But they get offended with use of the term 'rape culture' for some reason as they see it as an attack on them, when it's not. So I think it's probably best avoided.


    I love that expression, because of the way the person knows well why people get offended, but wants to play it down, the same people that complain about an ass grope being equivalent to rape.

    "People get offended when I grope their ass, for some reason. They shouldn't get so hung up about it"

    Can you see now how the above comes across?
    That said, a culture can exist (this is just in my opinion now) if it's not a majority of people. For example, the majority of people in Ireland don't take cocaine, yet Ireland is one of the top 5 countries in Europe for cocaine abuse. So we could say there is a 'drugs culture' in Ireland but people don't tend to call it a 'drug culture' it's just a phrase. Same way as 'rape culture' is just a phrase. I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

    That's my take on it anyway.


    Hmm, I wouldn't though, because it sounds like one of those TV3 media spin phrases that yer man who does those awful shocumentaries uses, what's his name, the guy that did dogging in Ireland or something like that anyway. It's basically scaremongering and exaggeration! And when you exaggerate a problem like rape using stats like ass groping to bump up the numbers and call it a "rape culture", that's when you'll lose your audience who will fail to take you seriously!

    I for one would rather see that didn't happen, because thankfully it's changed now, but 20 years ago male rape when reported got filed under the "fcuk me that was awkward" file by the Gardai, and I'd hate to see them have a "fcuk me that was ridiculous" file for reports of ass groping.


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    #429
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    B0jangles wrote: »
    I posted this on the previous page:

    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618

    I took a look at the word doc. There is a bit of good news.
    • 30% of respondents thought that being drunk makes a woman in some way responsible for being raped, with 4% stating this makes them ‘totally’ responsible, while over a quarter (26%) viewed this as making the woman ‘partially’ responsible.

    • Most (60%) thought drunkenness was not a contributory factor in making a woman in any way responsible for being raped.

    • Those aged 65 years or more were more likely to think that being drunk makes a woman totally (11%) or partially responsible (43%), compared to the total sample (4% and 26% respectively).

    Only 4% think that the woman is totally responsable. And the biggest age group to think that were over 65.

    In tooking at the rest of the figures, whenever there is a response that is negative towards the victim, the older generation generally think it. But figures for the younger and middle aged are far better.

    At least that means that these kind of attitudes are disappearing.


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    #430
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Grayson wrote: »
    I took a look at the word doc. There is a bit of good news.



    Only 4% think that the woman is totally responsable. And the biggest age group to think that were over 65.

    In tooking at the rest of the figures, whenever there is a response that is negative towards the victim, the older generation generally think it. But figures for the younger and middle aged are far better.

    At least that means that these kind of attitudes are disappearing.

    Thanks for that Greyson. You've actually highlighted the huge importance of looking at how research is done and the detail of the findings. It's far too common to see the most sensational number available being thrown out without any context or critique


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    #431
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    I posted this before in the "Trivial things that annoy you" thread, but it's a perfect example of perception vs reality, and how damaging terms like "rape culture" are on a society-

    Czarcasm wrote: »

    Trivial things that annoy me? People who are only interested in themselves.

    A classic example being just now when a well spoken middle aged lady and I were walking down the street, and there were a crowd of about twenty school children coming the opposite way, so we'd to step out on the street to pass them.

    I was about to cross the road once we'd passed them when the woman launched into a tirade about how "the children should have been walking two abreast and they'd no respect for people and their teachers were too busy nattering, etc", she was giving it welly, even the rubbish on the street, then as we walked she told me she'd an interview to go to, she was going back to work after 28 years, but she'd no idea where the building was.

    I was well out of my way at this stage, but I decided that I'd walk her to the building to make sure she didn't get lost and was late for her interview (actually now I think of it, not once did she say thank you!).

    After leaving her into the building, I wished her well in her interview and doubled back to where I was going myself. I was on my way back down past the same building when I spotted the woman, but she happened to be on the phone at the time and I heard her say to the person on the other end that she had no idea where she was.

    I decided I'd stand off to one side and wait til she was finished on the phone to ask her how she got on in her interview and then direct her out of the area. She spotted me out of the corner of her eye and while still on the phone, darted into the middle of the street in front of oncoming traffic, looking back to see was I still standing there.

    I figured at that point it was best to get the hell out of there and be on my way before she killed herself to get away from the person who only five minutes earlier had gone out of his way to help her.


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    #432
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I posted this before in the "Trivial things that annoy you" thread, but it's a perfect example of perception vs reality, and how damaging terms like "rape culture" are on a society-

    As everyone else has said: that's just one weirdo. You can't extrapolate it to a whole society.


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    #433
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Victim blaming is appalling, the blame rests entirely with the rapist. Oh, and culture, apparently.


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    #434
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Seriously, Czarcasm, WTF has that to do with this thread?:D


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    #435
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Victim blaming is appalling, the blame rests entirely with the rapist. Oh, and culture, apparently.

    So says bodice ripper.....


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    #436
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Grayson wrote: »
    So says bodice ripper.....

    Perhaps I just have massive jabs.


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    #437
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    bluewolf wrote: »
    As everyone else has said: that's just one weirdo. You can't extrapolate it to a whole society.


    Well I wouldn't quite have called her a weirdo bluewolf, I understood where she was coming from, she was acting out of fear, she was confident going into the interview, but when she came out and realised she didn't know where she was, she became naturally upset, it took me a minute to figure out that she was risking her life running into traffic for a reason, because of the over-riding fear that I might rape her.

    That's why I said to myself it was better to get the hell out of there rather than risk her being run over. I knew I was never going to be able to say to her "you're lost, now let me direct you out of here!", because in her mind I was already set to rape her.


    Now, that happens more often than we think, where perception contradicts reality, so do we now have a contradiction to the "rape culture" nonsense?

    If you can't see how the two words-

    rape: non-consensual sex

    culture: the beliefs of a society


    Effectively what you are doing is you are painting society as a whole of being approving and accommodating of rape, when it bloody well isn't, and that's why the phrase "rape culture" gets people's backs up.


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    #438
    Mr Tibbs
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭Mr Tibbs


    Well one myth that has been blown out of the water is that Priests are celibate and abstain from sex. Imagine people actually believed this crap in this country for years and some still do.


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    #439
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Seriously, Czarcasm, WTF has that to do with this thread?:D


    It has everything to do with the thread-

    We can back and forth all day here and pull statistics from google searches and argue about words and their definitions and meanings, but the best solution that's been put forth so far is that we all need to acknowledge that we're contributing to some "rape culture" notion and it'll all be ok if we go on a slut walk to take back our power.

    Fcuk that. To put it bluntly. I'm unsubscribing from this thread now as it's just a complete farce, and good luck telling anyone here that the best solution is to actually look out for each other.

    That's far too simple altogether of course.


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    #440
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    It has everything to do with the thread-

    We can back and forth all day here and pull statistics from google searches and argue about words and their definitions and meanings, but the best solution that's been put forth so far is that we all need to acknowledge that we're contributing to some "rape culture" notion and it'll all be ok if we go on a slut walk to take back our power.

    Fcuk that. To put it bluntly. I'm unsubscribing from this thread now as it's just a complete farce, and good luck telling anyone here that the best solution is to actually look out for each other.

    That's far too simple altogether of course.

    Why do you think she thought you were going to rape her - she could have just as likely thought you were the most boring bloke on god's green earth and wanted to leg it. The reason she stepped out in traffic could have have been because she was reliving the interview and not concentrating. That you think she might have been in fear of you is a strange conclusion to come to from what you've said.


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    #441
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Well I wouldn't quite have called her a weirdo bluewolf, I understood where she was coming from, she was acting out of fear, she was confident going into the interview, but when she came out and realised she didn't know where she was, she became naturally upset, it took me a minute to figure out that she was risking her life running into traffic for a reason, because of the over-riding fear that I might rape her.

    That's why I said to myself it was better to get the hell out of there rather than risk her being run over. I knew I was never going to be able to say to her "you're lost, now let me direct you out of here!", because in her mind I was already set to rape her.

    As far as I can see she was behaving in exactly the way most women are told to protect themselves against being raped.

    She was in an unfamiliar place when she noticed a man she didn't know except for a casual encounter some time earlier apparently hanging around waiting for her and watching her. If it had not been you - (obviously you know your intentions are prefectly friendly and benign, she does not), would you have recommended that woman to wait around and see why this man was apparently waiting for her and watching her?

    This thread is absolutely thonging with posters who support the idea that it's only common sense for people to avoid being raped by not putting themselves in various so-called risky situations; you describe a woman behaving in a way that aligns with what many see as sensible behaviour and you think was being irrationally nervous?

    Why? Because she wasn't psychic and just knew you were a good guy?


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    #442
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of circular arguments either, and I'm not going to argue it with you as I don't know what the man was thinking. Certainly I could hazard a good guess, but then you're getting into "thought police" territory, and is a man or woman having sexual thoughts about someone they see "a product of rape culture", or is it just human nature?

    Human nature to go after a vulnerable person with the aim of having sex with them non-consensually? Ummm no, I wouldn't say that's human nature otherwise all men would be potential rapists, which they're not. If I'm understanding you correctly (which perhaps I'm not) that's awfully close to the sexist attitude that "all men can't keep it in their pants, it's in their nature to have sex no matter what"
    Well can you blame them if the goal posts are being shifted by a small section of society all the time? And it IS a small section of society that comes up with a ridiculous term like "rape culture" and ascribes it to everyone on the planet. That's when you start to fail to be taken seriously.

    Nobody is ascribing 'rape culture' to everyone on the planet. Rape culture exists in varying degrees, for example it is much more prominent in some African countries. I would also say it's more of a problem in some states in America compared to Ireland.

    Nobody is saying all men are rapists or victim blamers or are condoning or trying to justify rape. However, there is a rape culture in Ireland in my opinion, based on statistics and countless anecdotes. If you're going to continue to deny it, based on what's already been said on this thread, than I'm hardly going to ever convince you, really.
    Nobody is questioning that rape is a serious problem in Ireland, but when you start telling people that an ass grope is sexual assault akin to rape and they should report it to the Gardai, that's when people start getting mental images of the queues of people standing outside the Garda station after the club on a Saturday night, and the girl who is 100th in the queue who is there to report being raped, has to wait her turn in the queue while the Gardai take statements from the other 99 who have had their ass groped.

    Show me where I or anyone else have said this on the thread. Groping somebody unwantledly is sexual assault. Raping someone is rape. What aren't you getting here? I've said many times now already that what we're talking about here can be considered mild in comparisan to rape. Me getting my ass and tits grabbed at on a night out is sexual assault and is not pleasant but I recognise it is mild and I get on with my night. I recognise it's not nearly as severe as what I went through when I was raped. What aren't you getting here?

    I've no doubt it's sexual assault, I've no doubt it's a problem, I'm very familiar with the law which is why I was delighted to see this creep made an example of-

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-23-slapped-woman-on-bottom-to-get-a-thrill-29021068.html

    I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not here....?
    Now, in saying that, when you try to equate a grope with rape, that's when you're going to lose people. It's not a cultural or society thing, it's merely human nature, and the thought police aren't going to change millions of years of evolution.

    Again, where have I equated groping with raping? Sexual assault includes but is not limited to groping, touching someone unwantedly, more visciously grabbing them and molesting them etc. etc. Rape includes but is not limited to digital rape, oral rape, vaginal rape, anal rape etc.

    I don't believe rape is purely a cultural or societal thing. And I don't believe it is purely a genetic or biological thing either. It's a mixture of all elements and can be different in different cases. Same way murderers are not necessarily 'born but not bred'.
    Czarcasm wrote: »
    How is anyone now in all fairness Jaffa supposed to know you are a victim of rape unless you tell them?

    They shouldn't know. It shouldn't have to be "oh she's a rape victim, she's off limits, but hey this girl hasn't been raped before, let's grab her ass"
    Can I just ask btw which do you with more- the word victim or survivor? I know you'll say they're only words and we shouldn't get too hung up on words, but if we're all expected to tackle a problem, it's important for the sake of clear communication that we're all using the same language and we all understand and have a clear definition of the words we're using.

    Interchangably, it doesn't bother me. I would use both in my case because I'm a survivor in that if I had not been found there may have been more serious consequences than just rape for me, but I won't get into it and make anyone feel uncomfortable here.
    Right, so you are supporting the use of a term that you don't use yourself and you're expecting people not to get too hung up about it? Well people DO kinda get hung up about it when they're being held responsible for something over which they have absolutely no control of whatsoever- another person's thought processes.

    How am I holding you responsible for ANYTHING? I don't know you from Adam but I would hope that you don't go around grabbing peoples ass and tits in clubs (although you don't see it as sexual assault so who knows!); I would hope that you wouldn't try to have sex with a comotose girl; I would hope you wouldn't shake a rapists hand; I would hope you wouldn't think of the 'poor decent lads' in the Steubenville case; I would hope you wouldn't resort to victim blaming and slut shaming. Because you are probably like most men who don't contribute to rape culture. You are probably a normal decent bloke. However, there is a significant minority who aren't like you.
    I can raise my son to the best of my ability, teach him to respect people, the whole nine yards, but that doesn't say that like I said earlier he can disregard all I've taught him and exercise his free will to rape somebody. Rapists have relatives too remember, they just don't care, so the whole "think about your relatives and friends", that doesn't really wash with them.

    You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying to rapists "think about your relatives and friends" I'm saying to people who are saying that groping a woman isn't sexual assault, I'm saying to people who think the victim is to blame because of what they wear, I'm saying to people who think 'the stats are completely wrong based on nothing but my own personal opinion because I don't want to think that my gender could possibly be responsible for that many rapes', I'm saying to the people who think taking advantage of a comotose girl is 'sleazy' but not any more sinister etc. etc.

    I'm saying to these people, who in all together contribute to rape culture, to think of their relatives and friends.


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    #443
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Well I wouldn't quite have called her a weirdo bluewolf,

    Yeah, I didn't see the part about you hanging around and staring at her afterward ;)

    Bojangles makes a good point: women are being told repeatedly to have "common sense" to protect themselves against strange men and potentially threatening situations. Yet when one does, it's a sign of the downfall of society

    Can't have it both ways...


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    #444
    donutheadhomer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Aldi freezer bag and masking tape if your going posh.

    hard to get the tape off the hair though

    think thats why the priests preferred them young


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    #445
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Perhaps I just have massive jabs.

    Grayson likes this answer.


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    #446
    Steve O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Steve O


    Is it possible to find a woman attractive without being thought of as thinking that she is a sex object?

    This thread is all kinds of ridiculous.


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    #447
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    I don't know any men who have told me that they were date raped, despite the fact that any number of them have ended up in bed with a woman they had no interest in and have zero memory of. None of them were traumatised.

    Maybe we should stop raising little girls to see themselves as being on the recieving end of sex, that it is something to bestowed like a gift to just the right person, that your virginity is taken from you and that male sexuality is something to be feared.

    Also, maybe we could all stop telling rape victims how their lives are ruined. Maybe their lives won't be ruined then...


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    #448
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    That women can orgasm
    They do but the real myth is that it matters if they do or not.


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    #449
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Also, maybe we could all stop telling rape victims how their lives are ruined. Maybe their lives won't be ruined then...

    +100


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    #450
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I don't know any men who have told me that they were date raped, despite the fact that any number of them have ended up in bed with a woman they had no interest in and have zero memory of. None of them were traumatised.

    Maybe we should stop raising little girls to see themselves as being on the recieving end of sex, that it is something to bestowed like a gift to just the right person, that your virginity is taken from you and that male sexuality is something to be feared.

    Also, maybe we could all stop telling rape victims how their lives are ruined. Maybe their lives won't be ruined then...

    So do you think we should encourage women to have more sexual partners, presumably so no-one will have to rape them to get what they want and then if it does happen to turn into a rape anyway lets try to put a positive spin on it so they are encouraged not to feel bad about it?

    :confused:


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    #451
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    B0jangles wrote: »
    So do you think we should encourage women to have more sexual partners, presumably so no-one will have to rape them to get what they want and then if it does happen to turn into a rape anyway lets try to put a positive spin on in so they don't feel too bad about it?

    :confused:



    I didn't say anything like that. I am not rewording to rebut what you imagined I said.


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