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The sex myth
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Do you genuinely not recognise the common denominator for every example you cite here?
Hint: every single example you cite of them is aimed at men. So if sex sells, it is 100% used to sell to men, therefore images that are sexually appealing to men are used.
I did that on purpose B0 in response to Rosy's skewered perspective that-The female body is used as a marketing tool in general society, we didn't ask for that
My idea was to point out that the male body are used just as much as a marketing tool in general society, and I know sure as hell we didn't ask for that! But, sex sells, because we want it, unless you're asexual, and there aren't very many of those around compared to hetro and LGBT, so companies market their products accordingly.How do you not see that this is a problem? Men are at most 50% of the population but their tastes are catered to as though they are 100% of the audience.
Ehh, I don't know about that now, especially when women's magazines outnumber men's magazines by about ten to one, same for female cosmetics, in fact even feminine hygiene products get the sexy treatment because they're aimed at selling to women, I can't for the life of me think of the advert for a womens pad that the woman gets her skirt caught in a lift or something and the guy catches a glimpse of her underwear! I mean, there's no words for that one really it's so bad!
One of the biggest growing markets in the sex industry too is pornography specifically aimed at women, for women, so their tastes are catered for in that respect when they want to whip out one of their numerous array of sex toys to pleasure themselves while a man has to make do with a shítty vibrating cock ring or a fleshlight. We're not exactly spoiled for choice in that department either.
The point I'm getting at is that just like you say men are at most 50% of the population and 100% of the audience, that really depends on the market you're aiming your product at, and how that product is perceived by your target market, so while my wife is off picking up Cosmo, I'm picking up a copy of Playboy... and leaving it back down again because it hasn't contained any good articles since it was introduced here some time in the mid 90's.0 -
How so Joe wrote: »In relation to this point, it's not so very far from rape.
I'm not saying that every sleazeball who goes for the drunkest girl in the room is a rapist, but bearing in mind the general state of Irish drinkers, when someone decides to go for the drunkest girl in the room, she is almost certainly too drunk to consent to anything.
So why are they going anywhere near her? The idea that she's drunk enough that her judgement will be impaired so she might consent to something with them? That's disgusting and sleazy, yes, but the chances are she's also too drunk to actually consent to do anything at all.
So anything they do with her can probably be categorised as sexual assault, and indeed rape if it gets that far.
Key point in your post bolded there, because if you hadn't included that, your post would have looked like you were trying to imply that the general state of mind of the Irish male who goes out for a drink is that they are all potential rapists on the lookout for the drunkest girl in the room to rape her.
Nobody has raped the girl until they've actually raped her, if that is indeed their intention, because up to that point, they're just being sleazy, which doesn't qualify as rape, but still some would see no problem in categorising it as "rape culture", effectively minimising the impact of the word rape, and by extension the act of rape itself.0 -
You're right, I'm not saying that all men heading out on the lash are trying to rape/sexually assault the drunkest girl in the room.Key point in your post bolded there, because if you hadn't included that, your post would have looked like you were trying to imply that the general state of mind of the Irish male who goes out for a drink is that they are all potential rapists on the lookout for the drunkest girl in the room to rape her.
Nobody has raped the girl until they've actually raped her, if that is indeed their intention, because up to that point, they're just being sleazy, which doesn't qualify as rape, but still some would see no problem in categorising it as "rape culture", effectively minimising the impact of the word rape, and by extension the act of rape itself.
What I am saying is that any male (or female) who goes out looking for the drunkest girl in the room and then attempts in any way to hook up with her and/or do anything further, especially if this is repeated behaviour, could well, but not definitely, become a rapist/sexual assaulter (that's not even a word, but you get what I'm trying to say).
Up to the point where they physically penetrate her, they're not a rapist, I agree, but I think if anything physical happens, that's beyond the boundaries of sleazy, that's sexual assault.
The idea that this is okay, if it's widespread, which I'm not saying it is, because that would be sick, that could be labelled rape culture.
But that's not what I said in my first post.0 -
How so Joe wrote: »
What I am saying is that any male (or female) who goes out looking for the drunkest girl in the room and then attempts in any way to hook up with her and/or do anything further, especially if this is repeated behaviour, could well, but not definitely, become a rapist/sexual assaulter (that's not even a word, but you get what I'm trying to say).
No argument there!0 -
How so Joe wrote: »You're right, I'm not saying that all men heading out on the lash are trying to rape/sexually assault the drunkest girl in the room.
What I am saying is that any male (or female) who goes out looking for the drunkest girl in the room and then attempts in any way to hook up with her and/or do anything further, especially if this is repeated behaviour, could well, but not definitely, become a rapist/sexual assaulter (that's not even a word, but you get what I'm trying to say).
Up to the point where they physically penetrate her, they're not a rapist, I agree, but I think if anything physical happens, that's beyond the boundaries of sleazy, that's sexual assault.
The idea that this is okay, if it's widespread, which I'm not saying it is, because that would be sick, that could be labelled rape culture.
But that's not what I said in my first post.
OK Joe I get what you're trying to say, but both the above post and your previous one are full of "if's" and "but's", but until rape actually happens, then it's not rape, it's sleaze, and no amount of if this or if that or but the other is going to make it rape, but still as you say some people would classify it as this new umbrella term "rape culture".
As I said in MY first post you picked me up on- you're still a long ways from actual rape without all the ifs and buts.0 -
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OK Joe I get what you're trying to say, but both the above post and your previous one are full of "if's" and "but's", but until rape actually happens, then it's not rape, it's sleaze, and no amount of if this or if that or but the other is going to make it rape, but still as you say some people would classify it as this new umbrella term "rape culture".
As I said in MY first post you picked me up on- you're still a long ways from actual rape without all the ifs and buts.
I actually fully disagree with you there.
Until rape happens can be far more than sleaze. Until rape happens could well be a serious sexual assault.
Sleaze is one end of the spectrum. Rape is the other. There is a vast space inbetween which is various categories of sexual assault.0 -
How so Joe wrote: »I actually fully disagree with you there.
Until rape happens can be far more than sleaze. Until rape happens could well be a serious sexual assault.
Sleaze is one end of the spectrum. Rape is the other. There is a vast space inbetween which is various categories of sexual assault.
Now see I don't know if you're taking me up wrong on purpose, or if it's accidental, because I'd hate for anyone here to feel they are being misrepresented.
Jaffa's original assertion was this-jaffacakesyum wrote: »I see it at parties - men going after and targetting the most comotose drunk woman in the room.
my rebuttal was this-That's called sleazy, you're still quite a ways from rape.
In other words, under the broad definition of "rape culture", sleazy behaviour comes under that umbrella term, and once you start doing that, you're not too far from someone walking into a Garda station and claiming sexual assault because somebody was eyeballing them.
Imagine how much time and resources that would take from just the Gardai alone, time and resources that could be better spent investigating actual rape cases as opposed to "he or she groped my ass" cases.
Now what you're taking from my post Joe is that I'm not taking any account of the spectrum in between a guy actually eyeballing a girl and a guy actually committing rape. It's not that I've ignored the various degrees of sexual assault in between, it's that they simply don't exist in the scenario Jaffa put forward.
Therefore it's one hell of a leap to say that a guy eyeballing a drunk girl at a party is part of any perceived "rape culture".0 -
I'm certainly not deliberately being obtuse, but I may have misunderstood your point.Now see I don't know if you're taking me up wrong on purpose, or if it's accidental, because I'd hate for anyone here to feel they are being misrepresented.Jaffa's original assertion was this-
my rebuttal was this-
In other words, under the broad definition of "rape culture", sleazy behaviour comes under that umbrella term, and once you start doing that, you're not too far from someone walking into a Garda station and claiming sexual assault because somebody was eyeballing them.
Imagine how much time and resources that would take from just the Gardai alone, time and resources that could be better spent investigating actual rape cases as opposed to "he or she groped my ass" cases.
Now what you're taking from my post Joe is that I'm not taking any account of the spectrum in between a guy actually eyeballing a girl and a guy actually committing rape. It's not that I've ignored the various degrees of sexual assault in between, it's that they simply don't exist in the scenario Jaffa put forward.
Therefore it's one hell of a leap to say that a guy eyeballing a drunk girl at a party is part of any perceived "rape culture".
Again, I'm gonna disagree with you, though. I don't think, in the scenario Jaffa put forward, that they're just eyeballing her.
The impression that I got from Jaffa's post was that these men were actually attempting to 'seduce' (for want of a better word) these ridiculously drunk women.
And that, I think, is part of where the rape culture assertion comes in.
Attempting anything sexual/seductive with a woman who's clearly too off her tits to consent or refuse consent could well be a byproduct of rape culture.
But then the issue is where does sexual conduct begin, where does it cross a line, etc. Those answers are different for everyone. I can see the point you're making there.
But I think what we have here are two different scenarios - as far as I can see, anyways.
There is the scenario where a woman is off her tits, and a lad starts eyeballing her. That's not rape culture. He could even be wondering is she in any fit state to drag herself to a taxi and get home.
That's not rape. That's not sexual assault. Probably if he's leering one could feel a bit violated, but it's certainly not something worth going to the gardaí over. And I don't think it's a product of rape culture.
But there is another scenario where a woman who is off her tits is approached by a guy with intent to have sex with her, or do anything of a sexual nature. The very fact that she is off her tits means that she cannot consent, thus the guy thinking that it's okay to attempt to seduce her, that is a product of rape culture, or it could be asserted that it is.
And I also think that's the scenario Jaffa was describing.
But I'm open to correction or interpretation on that.0 -
Every time examples are given, excuses are given as to why they're not representative.
The case here where people queued up to shake the rapists hand? One single case, the rest of society isn't like that! The Steubenville case, where more attention was paid to the "ruined" lives of the perpetrators, and there was a huge amount of hatred and slut shaming directed at the victim via social media? That's just one small town and a bunch of internet trolls, the rest of society isn't like that!
At some point, you have to step back and consider that maybe such attitudes are actually more prevalent than just a few small isolated cases.
The argument for rape culture isn't so much that rape is extremely common and people are not morally opposed to rape, but rather that rape is more common than people believe, that rape victims are often met with an undue level of skepticism, that rape victims are told after the fact how they were silly for not being more careful and what they should have done to avoid being raped, and that society has a somewhat high bar for what it believes to be "actual" rape or sexual assault.
At some point you need to show evidence that such attitudes to rapists are so prevalent and give an indication of what percentage of people you are talking about.
You claim thes attitudes are so prevalent yet my experience says otherwise, the vast majority of people in my experience abhor rape and rapists.0 -
Leaving aside the fact that you blatantly do believe it is the victims fault for displaying her body, your analogy is so very flawed. A high definition telly is a material possession, that someone might steal for a myriad of reasons... They're a dick, they want to sell it for money for whatever reason, or they simply want their own telly but can't afford it. My body is not a material possession, it's not there for the taking. If I have my boobs out or a short skirt I don't think it's right or fair for a man to think 'I'll have me some of that'...And I would be shocked if any man actually thought like that.
The problem with the belief that women should be careful about what they wear in case they get raped,is wrong on so many levels, but mostly because of this; it perpetuates the dangerous notion that rape is about sex. Rape isn't about sex, it's about a twisted person asserting their dominance over a weaker opponent. Women in burkas get raped.Nuns in habits get raped. Men in jeans get raped. Children in their school uniforms get raped. Your clothing doesn't make one ****ing bit of difference.
I think you're generalising what rape is about and believing the propaganda. You can't possibly know that all rapes are about dominance over a weaker opponent and not sex. How do you know it's never about sex?
As for whether what you wear makes rapes more likely, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Probability can be a tricky topic. You're assuming clothing doesn't make a difference as to how likely it is to be raped. Why te assumption? People in all clothes have been raped but there are different frequencies.
Saying that I think women for the most part should just wear what they want as the likelihood of being taped by a stranger is still low, assuming what I've heard is true that most rapes occur by those already known.0 -
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Three Seasons wrote: »At some point you need to show evidence that such attitudes to rapists are so prevalent and give an indication of what percentage of people you are talking about.
You claim thes attitudes are do prevalent yet my experience says otherwise, the vast majority of people in my experience abhor rape and rapists.
I'd broadly agree with this Point. There's a tendency in human nature ( not just this topic) to take one or two isolated examples and extrapolate from them that this is really how the world is. While one incident is too many we can't always assume its representative. This is what makes terms like rape culture particularly insidious- largely speaking if you want to be outraged and look hard enough you'll find an example to cite and this tendency of human nature the allies you to present it as the overarching truth0 -
Getting back to the OP briefly.
I thought about it and if your definition of rape includes inappropriate touching then yeah, I really can believe its 1 in 4.0 -
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Seriously, why is it that one block of posters on this thread are so actively looking for outrage. Every statement that's made is micro scrutinised and then twisted to imply something very different. Comments are extrapolated to broad sweeping statements. It's a childish way of debating, popular amongst zealots who often have little more than strawmen arguments so seek oxygen from other sources. It's also incredibly tiring when everyone has to repeatedly defend themselves against blatant misrepresentation0
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Some people LOVE being offended. It gives their lives meaning.0
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Three Seasons wrote: »At some point you need to show evidence that such attitudes to rapists are so prevalent and give an indication of what percentage of people you are talking about.
http://www.significancemagazine.org/details/webexclusive/1424839/Rape-more-common-than-smoking-in-the-US.html
http://jezebel.com/5988325/princeton-buries-rape-survey-report-only-to-have-it-leaked-later
Time until "false claims" post... ?
There was a survey done in the 70s asking questions like "is it ok for a man to force sex if he's bought the woman something" and a surprising number coming out with "yes"
Can't find the link right now
% of society who holds these attitudes? Here we go:
http://www.amnesty.ie/node/474Today’s survey in the Irish Examiner shines a spotlight on the alarming lack of public awareness of a woman’s right not to have sex. That 41% believe that a woman is partially or totally responsible for being raped is she is drunk or takes illegal drugs, that 37% believe she bears some responsibility if she flirts extensively with a man, and 26% if she wears sexy/revealing clothing, is a wake-up call to Irish society and the Irish Government.
More "it's not me it's not me so it can't be true" to follow I suppose
Half of northern ireland students:
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=830550 -
Ok I'll put my hands up, I'm a misogynistic rape appologist, the stats prove it.0
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Statistics and their wording....
How many of those people that said the victim was partially responsible would have said the rapist was wrong to do what they did. I would expect close to 100%. Those surveys do not indicate that rape was condoned and threfore does not constitute evidence of a rape culture.0 -
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Statistics and their wording....
How many of those people that said the victim was partially responsible would have said the rapist was wrong to do what they did. I would expect close to 100%. Those surveys do not indicate that rape was condoned and threfore does not constitute evidence of a rape culture.
Saying the victim is partially or totally responsible is part of the problem and it is condoning rape. Why did you flirt? You asked for it!
Took a drink? You asked for it! Hell, that was even a legal ruling in one case described in the article. We'll cut your compensation (who wants compensation anyway) because you were asking for it
We also have the lowest conviction rateIn a 2003 study by Rape Crisis Network Europe, Ireland had the lowest rate of conviction for rape (1%) among 21 European states.
More "partially or totally responsible"(The Examiner survey found that 29% of the public believe the woman partially or totally responsible if she has had many different sexual partners.)
This is not "1 isolated case", this is 29% of people0 -
The wheelbarrow position does not require you to go outside. My husband is a bastard!!!!0
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That's called sleazy, you're still quite a ways from rape.
Eh, no, you're about 5 minutes away from rape in a lot of cases. I was at a party where a man targeted a comotose woman and if I hadn't intervened they would have had sex and she was in no condition to consent, she couldn't walk, practically couldn't talk. What is a man's (or woman's) intentions to 'go after the most drunken comotose woman in the room' if not to have sex? I'm not talking about people who go after the drunkest girl in the room to see if she's ok, or to find out if she has a nice personality :rolleyes: I'm talking about men who go over to them with the intention of hooking up. Putting their hands up their thighs, trying to kiss them etc. etc. That's sleazy sure (it's sexual asault actually if there's intimate touching involved and the woman is barely conscious)...but if it's let continue it could lead to rape. And I know you will call out the "it could" but I don't think you honestly believe that a man targetting women practically passed out at a party have good intentions but you'll argue it anyway so whatever...no point going in circles.The above reads like "as a parent so and so and if you don't have children you wouldn't understand".
Quite the opposite. I'm saying everybody (male and female) should understand as they all (usually) have some personal close relationships, be that their mother, sister, friend or whatever. Most men wouldn't dream of anything bad happening to women they know. Yet some/?a lot will question that rape is a significant problem in Ireland (and worldwide) "the stats are wrong", some will question what constitutes sexual assault etc. etc.You don't have to have female relatives or friends to be sensitive to the experiences of people who have been raped. , and not just moral outrage at what it is to have your ass groped in a nightclub.But those people who have had their ass groped in a nightclub and try to wedge it in under the umbrella term "rape culture" should actually show some sensitivity to those people who have actually experienced the utter humiliation of what it is to have been raped
I HAVE experienced the utter humiliation and pain and discomfort and trauma of going through rape. And I AM outraged that people think touching another person is ok and simply 'annoying' and not sexual assault. It IS sexual assault, however mild, to touch somebody like that. And before it is asked for the millionth time YES it is sexual assault if it is female on male as well. The person in question (male or female) might be 'just doing it for the laugh' but the law says it is trespass. Read up on the law before you go around saying it's not a problem.0 -
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This may be a case of the blind not willing to see, but I cannot believe 29% of Irish people would believe that. Of all the people I know I cannot imagine one person that would think that way. Not very scientific I admit.
Considering you've gone from "That's not evidence" to "I don't believe it", yeah, it's not. Go read the stories posted on tll, real everyday stories of the attitudes women have come across. It happens. Maybe not to you or me, but it does.0 -
Considering you've gone from "That's not evidence" to "I don't believe it", yeah, it's not. Go read the stories posted on tll, real everyday stories of the attitudes women have come across. It happens. Maybe not to you or me, but it does.
Don't get me wrong it's still would not be evidence of a rape culture, if by rape culture we mean rape is condoned.0 -
Saying the victim is partially or totally responsible is part of the problem and it is condoning rape. Why did you flirt? You asked for it!
Took a drink? You asked for it! Hell, that was even a legal ruling in one case described in the article. We'll cut your compensation (who wants compensation anyway) because you were asking for it
We also have the lowest conviction rate
More "partially or totally responsible"
This is not "1 isolated case", this is 29% of people
I don't think saying the victim was partially responsible is condoning rape, it's certainly a abhorrent attitude.
While those stats are shocking they are a minority, certainly not a "rape culture" IMO as the majority disagree.0 -
This may be a case of the blind not willing to see, but I cannot believe 29% of Irish people would believe that. Of all the people I know I cannot imagine one person that would think that way. Not very scientific I admit.
Here's the Examiner link on the Irish poll:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2008/0326/ireland/rape-our-blame-culture-58757.html
But so far I've been unable to find a direct source on the Red C site.
A similar poll was carried out in the U.K. with equally disturbing results:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618
(there's a link on that page to a download of the key results)0 -
suicide_circus wrote: »Some people LOVE being offended. It gives their lives meaning.
Yeah I'm just clutching at straws trying to find any ways to be offended here. I mean grabbing a rape victims ass and tits on a regular basis on nights out...sure I should just chillax a bit more yeah? No biggie :rolleyes:Three Seasons wrote: »I don't think saying the victim was partially responsible is condoning rape, it's certainly a abhorrent attitude.
While those stats are shocking they are a minority, certainly not a "rape culture" IMO as the majority disagree.
I think people are getting too hung up on the term "rape culture". I actually don't go around using that term, only for this thread so when discussing rape I wouldn't really use that term normally but it's kind of latched on as a common theme here.
Nonetheless, I wouldn't deny there's a rape culture in Ireland, I would just avoid using that term as it seems to distance men from the problem; men that are not 'rape apologists', everyday decent men. But they get offended with use of the term 'rape culture' for some reason as they see it as an attack on them, when it's not. So I think it's probably best avoided.
That said, a culture can exist (this is just in my opinion now) if it's not a majority of people. For example, the majority of people in Ireland don't take cocaine, yet Ireland is one of the top 5 countries in Europe for cocaine abuse. So we could say there is a 'drugs culture' in Ireland but people don't tend to call it a 'drug culture' it's just a phrase. Same way as 'rape culture' is just a phrase. I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
That's my take on it anyway.0 -
Here's the Examiner link on the Irish poll:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2008/0326/ireland/rape-our-blame-culture-58757.html
But so far I've been unable to find a direct source on the Red C site.
A similar poll was carried out in the U.K. with equally disturbing results:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618
(there's a link on that page to a download of the key results)
'38% believe a woman must share some of the blame if she walks through a deserted area.'
That's frankly bizzare. Where did they get these idiots from?0 -
jaffacakesyum wrote: »Eh, no, you're about 5 minutes away from rape in a lot of cases. I was at a party where a man targeted a comotose woman and if I hadn't intervened they would have had sex and she was in no condition to consent, she couldn't walk, practically couldn't talk. What is a man's (or woman's) intentions to 'go after the most drunken comotose woman in the room' if not to have sex? I'm not talking about people who go after the drunkest girl in the room to see if she's ok, or to find out if she has a nice personality :rolleyes: I'm talking about men who go over to them with the intention of hooking up. Putting their hands up their thighs, trying to kiss them etc. etc. That's sleazy sure (it's sexual asault actually if there's intimate touching involved and the woman is barely conscious)...but if it's let continue it could lead to rape. And I know you will call out the "it could" but I don't think you honestly believe that a man targetting women practically passed out at a party have good intentions but you'll argue it anyway so whatever...no point going in circles.
I'm not a fan of circular arguments either, and I'm not going to argue it with you as I don't know what the man was thinking. Certainly I could hazard a good guess, but then you're getting into "thought police" territory, and is a man or woman having sexual thoughts about someone they see "a product of rape culture", or is it just human nature?Quite the opposite. I'm saying everybody (male and female) should understand as they all (usually) have some personal close relationships, be that their mother, sister, friend or whatever. Most men wouldn't dream of anything bad happening to women they know. Yet some/?a lot will question that rape is a significant problem in Ireland (and worldwide) "the stats are wrong", some will question what constitutes sexual assault etc. etc.
Well can you blame them if the goal posts are being shifted by a small section of society all the time? And it IS a small section of society that comes up with a ridiculous term like "rape culture" and ascribes it to everyone on the planet. That's when you start to fail to be taken seriously.
Nobody is questioning that rape is a serious problem in Ireland, but when you start telling people that an ass grope is sexual assault akin to rape and they should report it to the Gardai, that's when people start getting mental images of the queues of people standing outside the Garda station after the club on a Saturday night, and the girl who is 100th in the queue who is there to report being raped, has to wait her turn in the queue while the Gardai take statements from the other 99 who have had their ass groped.I HAVE experienced the utter humiliation and pain and discomfort and trauma of going through rape. And I AM outraged that people think touching another person is ok and simply 'annoying' and not sexual assault. It IS sexual assault, however mild, to touch somebody like that. And before it is asked for the millionth time YES it is sexual assault if it is female on male as well. The person in question (male or female) might be 'just doing it for the laugh' but the law says it is trespass. Read up on the law before you go around saying it's not a problem.
I've no doubt it's sexual assault, I've no doubt it's a problem, I'm very familiar with the law which is why I was delighted to see this creep made an example of-
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-23-slapped-woman-on-bottom-to-get-a-thrill-29021068.html
Now, in saying that, when you try to equate a grope with rape, that's when you're going to lose people. It's not a cultural or society thing, it's merely human nature, and the thought police aren't going to change millions of years of evolution.0 -
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http://www.significancemagazine.org/details/webexclusive/1424839/Rape-more-common-than-smoking-in-the-US.html
http://jezebel.com/5988325/princeton-buries-rape-survey-report-only-to-have-it-leaked-later
Time until "false claims" post... ?
There was a survey done in the 70s asking questions like "is it ok for a man to force sex if he's bought the woman something" and a surprising number coming out with "yes"
Can't find the link right now
% of society who holds these attitudes? Here we go:
http://www.amnesty.ie/node/474
More "it's not me it's not me so it can't be true" to follow I suppose
Half of northern ireland students:
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=83055
To be honest quite a few of the links you've posted are less than choice to
Your argument. The jezebel.com link for example openly admits at the en that they put their own spin and definition on the result they quote. This is notwithstanding that the methodology isn't available to be critiqued. If the infamous Koss survey teaches us anything it's the importance of open disclosure around this as it can radically alter the findings. The nisvs survey concedes it's suffers from significant biases. Both relate to the US! If the arguement is that Ireland has a rape culture then they add nothing to it!
One of the biggest problems in this area (from both sides) is the Amount of pop science and poor quality research that thrown about as verified fact or spun to advance an agenda0
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