Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

hardybuck · 18-04-2013 10:18am

It wouldn't be too complicated to give people receipts as they pass through the turnstiles.

Not only would you prevent messing like what happened yesterday, but the County Board would be able to get accurate attendence figures. This would obviously reduce the risk of lads dipping into the takings, and should also be very important for Health & Safety reasons.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 10:28am

hardybuck wrote: »

It wouldn't be too complicated to give people receipts as they pass through the turnstiles.

Not only would you prevent messing like what happened yesterday, but the County Board would be able to get accurate attendence figures. This would obviously reduce the risk of lads dipping into the takings, and should also be very important for Health & Safety reasons.

It would be too complicated, or at least would infuriate a large section of the match-going populace to the point of violence. I saw it at Walsh Park last week, fellas (it's always men) going straight into the turnstile oblivious to the person right beside the turnstile taking money. Can you imagine giving these types a receipt for EVERY GAME? And that's even before you consider the logistics of giving official receipts to every punter causing congestion at busy games. The game should have been called off earlier, that was the problem. Let's not go about creating permanently-impacting solutions for problems that occur once in a blue moon.

DeiseX · 18-04-2013 10:30am

deiseach wrote: »

It would be too complicated, or at least would infuriate a large section of the match-going populace to the point of violence. I saw it at Walsh Park last week, fellas (it's always men) going straight into the turnstile oblivious to the person right beside the turnstile taking money. Can you imagine giving these types a receipt for EVERY GAME? And that's even before you consider the logistics of giving official receipts to every punter causing congestion at busy games. The game should have been called off earlier, that was the problem. Let's not go about creating permanently-impacting solutions for problems that occur once in a blue moon.

A small bit of contingency and forward thinking is all that is needed.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 10:36am

DeiseX wrote: »

A small bit of contingency and forward thinking is all that is needed.

They should have called the match off earlier so no money was taken. We don't need to introduce an extra level of bureaucracy to the match-going experience.

Professey Chin · 18-04-2013 10:41am

deiseach wrote: »

It would be too complicated, or at least would infuriate a large section of the match-going populace to the point of violence. I saw it at Walsh Park last week, fellas (it's always men) going straight into the turnstile oblivious to the person right beside the turnstile taking money. Can you imagine giving these types a receipt for EVERY GAME? And that's even before you consider the logistics of giving official receipts to every punter causing congestion at busy games. The game should have been called off earlier, that was the problem. Let's not go about creating permanently-impacting solutions for problems that occur once in a blue moon.

Are you genuinely saying that giving someone a small stub of paper when paying into a game is too difficult because of some grumpy old men?

DeiseX · 18-04-2013 10:42am

deiseach wrote: »

They should have called the match off earlier so no money was taken. We don't need to introduce an extra level of bureaucracy to the match-going experience.

Bureaucracy!! !Jesus wept! Hand someone a small stub of paper!!! Not a mortgage application!!!

The GAA's dinosaur attitude towards patrons is ridiculous!

deiseach · 18-04-2013 10:51am

Chinpool wrote: »

Are you genuinely saying that giving someone a small stub of paper when paying into a game is too difficult because of some grumpy old men?

I'm saying that giving everyone, not just the grumpy old men, a piece of paper is an unnecessary level of complication to going to a match. It will slow down access to the ground for every game - please don't say it won't, even a short transaction repeated several thousand times takes time - and lead to people bitching about the length of time it takes to get in. Last night's fiasco could have been avoided had they just called the game off earlier. That was where the mistake was made.

robopaddy · 18-04-2013 10:54am

DeiseX wrote: »

Bureaucracy!! !Jesus wept! Hand someone a small stub of paper!!! Not a mortgage application!!!

The GAA's dinosaur attitude towards patrons is ridiculous!

waste of time... a small stub of paper for each of 3 or 4,000 people entering the match most people will just end up throwing on the ground and littering the place. and what happens when you go to get your money back and this 'small stub of paper' is not in your pocket? God help the lad at the gate thats all I say

Mountainlad · 18-04-2013 11:02am

We're all wise after the event here. How many people would be arguing so vehemently for the introduction of receipts if the GAA had introduced a proposal to do so?

When has anyone called for receipts to be introduced before? Quite likely, plenty of people who became so accustomed to getting receipts while not needing would eventually either tell the person at the turnstile to keep them or discard them upon receiving one.

It's a shame for the people that went, especially as was pointed out to me yesterday for the Clare people who travelled. Where would the refund be available for Clare people if they'd been issued receipts? The Munster GAA headquarters? Or would we make them come all the way back to Waterford again? They have already incurred petrol costs that's no dead money to them, and for no reason at all.

There's only one thing about it, and that is that the game should have been called off earlier and that should have been communicated as quickly and as broadly as possible. This also takes into account the Clare players, who travelled to the game. Very frustrating to have a slightly more than 4 hour round trip to and from Dungarvan to Ennis, as well as making their way home for those that don't live right beside Ennis for no reason.

deisefolife · 18-04-2013 11:03am

deiseach wrote: »

I'm saying that giving everyone, not just the grumpy old men, a piece of paper is an unnecessary level of complication to going to a match. It will slow down access to the ground for every game - please don't say it won't, even a short transaction repeated several thousand times takes time - and lead to people bitching about the length of time it takes to get in. Last night's fiasco could have been avoided had they just called the game off earlier. That was where the mistake was made.

one solution would be to let people in earlier to avoid congestion.. problem solved.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 11:11am

deisefolife wrote: »

one solution would be to let people in earlier to avoid congestion.. problem solved.

Okay. How many people do you think turned up to Fraher last night and found the gates closed? How many people were in the queue when the gates opened? That's how much congestion you would avoid using this particular solution.

robopaddy · 18-04-2013 11:13am

DeiseX wrote: »

Free entry is all grand and good the next day, but those who turned up last night and paid €10 are still €10 out of pocket! Whereas those who turn up the next night and weren't there last night obviously won't be €10 out of pocket!! Granted, its not a huge admission fee but its the principle of the thing.

you dont have to pay the next day so you are not actually 'out of pocket'. Im starting to think the big issue seems to be people are sickened to see people that couldnt or didnt go last night getting in free the next day but thats just the way it has to work. you have paid the tenner entrance fee, so be it.

If people are so much the wiser that the match should have been cancelled earlier why did they turn up in the first place?

I do feel sorry for the people that made the journey down from Clare on a midweek night only to find out that the match is cancelled, they are the ones who are really 'out of pocket'

DeiseX · 18-04-2013 11:15am

robopaddy wrote: »

you dont have to pay the next day so you are not actually 'out of pocket'. Im starting to think the big issue seems to be people are sickened to see people that couldnt or didnt go last night getting in free the next day but thats just the way it has to work. you have paid the tenner entrance fee, so be it.

I do feel sorry for the people that made the journey down from Clare on a midweek night only to find out that the match is cancelled, they are the ones who are really 'out of pocket'

Well, I paid €10 last night and I won't be getting it back! As I was leaving the stand and walking back to the turnstile an man, early 60s I guess, was literally after walking 5 steps through the turnstile into the ground. I said to him you may turn around, the game is off. No one entered behind him in the meantime. The same steward who took his money 15 seconds previously refused to refund him. Are you genuinely telling me this is ok???

As a matter of interest, did the Munster Council decide to change the strategy from Walsh Park last week (go and pay, get a ticket, walk through the turnstile) for the game last night (simply pay cash at the turnstile) based on feedback from the Tipp game? Genuine question.

hardybuck · 18-04-2013 11:33am

deiseach wrote: »

It would be too complicated, or at least would infuriate a large section of the match-going populace to the point of violence. I saw it at Walsh Park last week, fellas (it's always men) going straight into the turnstile oblivious to the person right beside the turnstile taking money. Can you imagine giving these types a receipt for EVERY GAME? And that's even before you consider the logistics of giving official receipts to every punter causing congestion at busy games. The game should have been called off earlier, that was the problem. Let's not go about creating permanently-impacting solutions for problems that occur once in a blue moon.

I take it you've bought something in a shop before? You hand over the money, you get a receipt, you continue on your way. Takes about 20 seconds. I saw it in Walsh Park as well last year, and it was a joke - but that doesn't mean the concept is wrong.

Think of the amount of times you've sat in stands when people were lauging when the attendance was announced. That alone should be a reason for introducing a system that will stand up to scrutiny.

Can you imagine any other business that wouldn't be able to reconcile their tills at the end of the day!?

deiseach · 18-04-2013 11:37am

robopaddy wrote: »

you dont have to pay the next day so you are not actually 'out of pocket'. Im starting to think the big issue seems to be people are sickened to see people that couldnt or didnt go last night getting in free the next day but thats just the way it has to work. you have paid the tenner entrance fee, so be it.

I can understand people being aggrieved, some are not going to make the rescheduled game. However, the idea that every punter needs to have a receipt of entry for every game up and down the land on the chance the game is called off at the last minute is a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Mountainlad · 18-04-2013 11:44am

DeiseX wrote: »

Well, I paid €10 last night and I won't be getting it back! As I was leaving the stand and walking back to the turnstile an man, early 60s I guess, was literally after walking 5 steps through the turnstile into the ground. I said to him you may turn around, the game is off. No one entered behind him in the meantime. The same steward who took his money 15 seconds previously refused to refund him. Are you genuinely telling me this is ok???

As a matter of interest, did the Munster Council decide to change the strategy from Walsh Park last week (go and pay, get a ticket, walk through the turnstile) for the game last night (simply pay cash at the turnstile) based on feedback from the Tipp game? Genuine question.

If people are going to go to the game when its refixed, then it makes no difference. If you pay a €10 in, and get it refunded then it will still cost €10 the next day. It being free the next day, the cost incurred is €10. It's the same thing, the only difference being there will be people who will get in free. I see this being more peoples gripe than the actual cost of it. If you attend the game the next day you are certainly not out of pocket.

The only people that would be are Clare people who have to travel twice, and also people who don't go to the game the next day. If you weren't going to the game the next day (as in couldn't) then I'd send an email to the Munster Council immediately.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 11:52am

hardybuck wrote: »

I take it you've bought something in a shop before? You hand over the money, you get a receipt, you continue on your way. Takes about 20 seconds. I saw it in Walsh Park as well last year, and it was a joke - but that doesn't mean the concept is wrong.

Think of the amount of times you've sat in stands when people were lauging when the attendance was announced. That alone should be a reason for introducing a system that will stand up to scrutiny.

Can you imagine any other business that wouldn't be able to reconcile their tills at the end of the day!?

Well, I've never gone to a GAA match and heard people griping that they didn't get a receipt, whereas I've heard lots of complaints over the years about the nuisance of any system of payment other than cash at the turnstiles, hence my previous reference to the grumpy old men. As Mountainlad notes, the lack of receipts was never an issue before last night. Had the game been called off in good time we wouldn't be having this conversation. As for the supposed cooking of the books, that's a long running joke. Given the amount of people who get into grounds without payment of any description, whether legitimately or not, I don't see how issuing tickets to punters who pay to get in will eradicate those suspicions. Unless you want everyone to be able to produce a ticket, which would seem like overkill to me.

hardybuck · 18-04-2013 12:17pm

deiseach wrote: »

Well, I've never gone to a GAA match and heard people griping that they didn't get a receipt, whereas I've heard lots of complaints over the years about the nuisance of any system of payment other than cash at the turnstiles, hence my previous reference to the grumpy old men. As Mountainlad notes, the lack of receipts was never an issue before last night. Had the game been called off in good time we wouldn't be having this conversation. As for the supposed cooking of the books, that's a long running joke. Given the amount of people who get into grounds without payment of any description, whether legitimately or not, I don't see how issuing tickets to punters who pay to get in will eradicate those suspicions. Unless you want everyone to be able to produce a ticket, which would seem like overkill to me.

My point revolves around the fact that the County Board officials don't know how many people are in the ground. They don't know how many of them have paid, are OAP's or students.

If you don't know how many people are in a ground - how can you ensure Health & Safety is properly looked after? Sure there may be plenty of space, but how many fire exits are manned for example - a crowd of 2,000 would take longer to evacuate than 1,000.

If you don't know how many people are in a ground, how can you ensure that you're people on the gates aren't stealing? You can't.

The above two are absolute basics, and I don't know how they're getting away without having that nailed down. If we were talking about a properly run organisation, you'd also like to know the basic demographics of your customer base - i.e. how many children, students, adults and OAP's are attending games. Once you know that you can look towards providing proper facilities (e.g. providing family friendly toilet areas where parents can bring young kids) or market your product more effectively to your target market - which we know the GAA is woeful at.

I just think that we're so used to looking at a really sloppy setup, and are to quick to provide reasons why improvements couldn't be made. Obviously this negative and reactive thinking is present at Board level also.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 12:37pm

hardybuck wrote: »

My point revolves around the fact that the County Board officials don't know how many people are in the ground. They don't know how many of them have paid, are OAP's or students.

If you don't know how many people are in a ground - how can you ensure Health & Safety is properly looked after? Sure there may be plenty of space, but how many fire exits are manned for example - a crowd of 2,000 would take longer to evacuate than 1,000.

If you don't know how many people are in a ground, how can you ensure that you're people on the gates aren't stealing? You can't.

The above two are absolute basics, and I don't know how they're getting away without having that nailed down. If we were talking about a properly run organisation, you'd also like to know the basic demographics of your customer base - i.e. how many children, students, adults and OAP's are attending games. Once you know that you can look towards providing proper facilities (e.g. providing family friendly toilet areas where parents can bring young kids) or market your product more effectively to your target market - which we know the GAA is woeful at.

I just think that we're so used to looking at a really sloppy setup, and are to quick to provide reasons why improvements couldn't be made. Obviously this negative and reactive thinking is present at Board level also.

A series of solutions looking for problems. You say you "don't know how they're getting away" with not knowing precisely how many people are in the ground from a Health & Safety perspective. Given these games are hardly hidden from the prying eyes of the authorities - the presence of the Gardaí at all these matches is a bit of a giveaway - I'd say the grounds conform with Health & Safety requirements. By your logic churchgoers should be issued with tickets so that they know precisely how many there are in congregation in the case of an emergency. I'm sure this is not the case and the same is true of sports venues. As for people potentially robbing and knowing the demographics of your audience, do you really think the answer to these problems is to make every GAA game all-ticket? Because that is the upshot of what you are suggesting. If that's the case, fine. I think it would be ridiculously convoluted, but we could agree to differ.

hardybuck · 18-04-2013 12:45pm

deiseach wrote: »

A series of solutions looking for problems. You say you "don't know how they're getting away" with not knowing precisely how many people are in the ground from a Health & Safety perspective. Given these games are hardly hidden from the prying eyes of the authorities - the presence of the Gardaí at all these matches is a bit of a giveaway - I'd say the grounds conform with Health & Safety requirements. By your logic churchgoers should be issued with tickets so that they know precisely how many there are in congregation in the case of an emergency. I'm sure this is not the case and the same is true of sports venues. As for people potentially robbing and knowing the demographics of your audience, do you really think the answer to these problems is to make every GAA game all-ticket? Because that is the upshot of what you are suggesting. If that's the case, fine. I think it would be ridiculously convoluted, but we could agree to differ.

A can of worms has been opened here which we could go on about for ages.

The Garda presence - I'm sure that's a very scientific process, "yera, there's a minor game on tonight, sure me and Joe will go up and keep an eye on things". Maybe I'm wrong - I'm sure they do it more carefully in Croke Park.

I'm sure if Waterford County Board want to hold a concert in Fraher Field this summer (and let's not even go there in terms of how badly they approached that fiasco) they'd have to conform to much stricter guidelines than they do when hosting GAA matches.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 12:47pm

hardybuck wrote: »

A can of worms has been opened here which we could go on about for ages.

You say it like it's a bad thing

Psychedelic · 18-04-2013 2:14pm

Some amount of moaning over a fcuking tenner, and you'll still get to see the game for the money you paid. Get over it lads, shit happens, it's not the end of the world.

premierstone · 18-04-2013 3:17pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

Some amount of moaning over a fcuking tenner, and you'll still get to see the game for the money you paid. Get over it lads, shit happens, it's not the end of the world.

Percisely, too many lads as usual looking for something to be mad about, and when the Munster Council then make the correct move and announce the re-fixed game will be free entry all the begrudgers can think about is other folk getting in for nothing and they paid a €10, even though they were quite happy to pay the tenner in the first place, its a typical Irish attitude unfortunately.

deiseach · 18-04-2013 3:22pm

Dmitri (of the Ballydurn Shostakovichs) finds out he'll get to see the match for free while some other misfortunates spent a tenner:

robopaddy · 18-04-2013 3:33pm

DeiseX wrote: »

Well, I paid €10 last night and I won't be getting it back! As I was leaving the stand and walking back to the turnstile an man, early 60s I guess, was literally after walking 5 steps through the turnstile into the ground. I said to him you may turn around, the game is off. No one entered behind him in the meantime. The same steward who took his money 15 seconds previously refused to refund him. Are you genuinely telling me this is ok???

and if he had gotten his tenner back? no doubt youd have demanded yours, and the person with you and so on so forth and before you know it you have 500 people gathered around one or two gatesmen demanding a tenner a head when the lads at the gate are only taking instructions from upstairs.

DeiseX · 18-04-2013 3:56pm

robopaddy wrote: »

and if he had gotten his tenner back? no doubt youd have demanded yours, and the person with you and so on so forth and before you know it you have 500 people gathered around one or two gatesmen demanding a tenner a head when the lads at the gate are only taking instructions from upstairs.

Look, I feel I was entitled to me €10! Simple as that! I'll say no more!

Mountainlad · 19-04-2013 3:19pm

Intersting that I read here that Brian Looby (Abbeyside/Ballinacourty), the Dungarvan Colleges full back, was not part of the Waterford Minor Hurling Panel as he was concentrating on his leaving cert. He lines out for the Waterford minor football team though tomorrow. A total of 4 startes from the Minor hurling team line out for the footballers:

1. Craig Brown Erin’s Own
2. Jack Mullaney Stradbally
3. Tomas Cooney Nire
4. Dermot Ryan Nire
5. Jamie Barron An Rinn
6. Brian Looby Ballinacourty
7. Billy o Keeffe Gaultir
8. Cormac Curran Brickey Rangers
9. Tom Devine Modeligo
10. Willie Hahessy Rathgormack
11. Micheal Casey Dunhill
12. Jason Curry Rathgormack CAPTAIN
13. Michael Troy Modeligo
14. Conor Gleeson Nire
15. Paul O Connor Clashmore/Kinsalebeg

cleaboy boy · 19-04-2013 4:05pm

The reason he lines out for the footballers is that they got together about 2 weeks ago and he knows that it'll be a short campaign ( with no disrespect to the football people in the county )

hardybuck · 19-04-2013 4:43pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Intersting that I read here that Brian Looby (Abbeyside/Ballinacourty), the Dungarvan Colleges full back, was not part of the Waterford Minor Hurling Panel as he was concentrating on his leaving cert. He lines out for the Waterford minor football team though tomorrow. A total of 4 startes from the Minor hurling team line out for the footballers:

1. Craig Brown Erin’s Own
2. Jack Mullaney Stradbally
3. Tomas Cooney Nire
4. Dermot Ryan Nire
5. Jamie Barron An Rinn
6. Brian Looby Ballinacourty
7. Billy o Keeffe Gaultir
8. Cormac Curran Brickey Rangers
9. Tom Devine Modeligo
10. Willie Hahessy Rathgormack
11. Micheal Casey Dunhill
12. Jason Curry Rathgormack CAPTAIN
13. Michael Troy Modeligo
14. Conor Gleeson Nire
15. Paul O Connor Clashmore/Kinsalebeg

Must be a very long time since an Erin's Own man has been on a Waterford minor football side! Fair play to him.

tramoreabu · 19-04-2013 5:44pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Intersting that I read here that Brian Looby (Abbeyside/Ballinacourty), the Dungarvan Colleges full back, was not part of the Waterford Minor Hurling Panel as he was concentrating on his leaving cert. He lines out for the Waterford minor football team though tomorrow. A total of 4 startes from the Minor hurling team line out for the footballers:

1. Craig Brown Erin’s Own
2. Jack Mullaney Stradbally
3. Tomas Cooney Nire
4. Dermot Ryan Nire
5. Jamie Barron An Rinn
6. Brian Looby Ballinacourty
7. Billy o Keeffe Gaultir
8. Cormac Curran Brickey Rangers
9. Tom Devine Modeligo
10. Willie Hahessy Rathgormack
11. Micheal Casey Dunhill
12. Jason Curry Rathgormack CAPTAIN
13. Michael Troy Modeligo
14. Conor Gleeson Nire
15. Paul O Connor Clashmore/Kinsalebeg

Can't believe there's no city lads getting a look in, just like the u21.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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