Nigel Farage MEP

Robbo · 12-02-2013 01:22PM

A reasonable omnibus of some of the more "colourful" members and actions of UKIP.

I really don't see how Farage can have any truck with wasted expenses when he presides over what's esentially an abstentionist party (except when it comes to expenses).

biko · 12-02-2013 06:45PM

Thanks Scofflaw for not deleting the video and elaborating on the content.

NAP123 · 13-02-2013 12:09AM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Sadly, I don't think any of that really requires an answer.

regards,
Scofflaw

Indeed it is sad.

Scofflaw · 23-02-2013 10:46AM

The historically rather grumpy Marta Andreasen has defected to the Tories, calling Nigel some rude names en route:

Marta Andreasen defects to Conservatives

A senior member of the UK Independence Party has said she is leaving the party to join the Conservatives.

Marta Andreasen, a South East region MEP, sent her resignation letter to UKIP leader Nigel Farage on Friday.

It comes two weeks after she accused the UKIP leader of bullying and being "anti-women" and "a Stalinist" and threatened to leave the party.

In response, Mr Farage said the Tories "deserve what is coming to them" and added: "The woman is impossible."

In an open letter expressing her dissatisfaction with UKIP, she accused Mr Farage of treating any views other than his own with contempt.

She said Mr Farage surrounded himself with "an old boys club of like-minded sycophants", whereas Conservative leader David Cameron had shown "he can listen, adapt and do what is right for the country, not just for personal gain".

Meanwhile, in a statement issued on Friday, the UKIP leader said: "Having left the OECD, the European Commission and UKIP in unpleasant circumstances, the Conservative Party deserve what is coming to them.

"The woman is impossible."

I'm not entirely inclined to disagree with Farage here, but on the other hand Andreasen's criticisms aren't particularly incredible either. I doubt she's a straw in the wind, but on the other hand her involvement with UKIP was something of propaganda point for them. Her constituent's opinions on the switch do not seem to be recorded.

cordially,
Scofflaw

darkhorse · 27-02-2013 10:57PM

McDave wrote: »

:pac:

You mean like the UKIP 'Respect the Ahrish No' stunt in the EP where their MEPs practically dressed up as leprechauns. Like they give a toss...

First of all, it was "Respect the Irish Vote", and not as stated above. Secondly, how many Irish politicians did you count in that clip from the European Parliament. Third, could give me some idea as to what senior irish politicians, in you esteemed view, gives a toss about the Ahrish people.

McDave · 28-02-2013 08:58PM

darkhorse wrote: »

First of all, it was "Respect the Irish Vote", and not as stated above. Secondly, how many Irish politicians did you count in that clip from the European Parliament. Third, could give me some idea as to what senior irish politicians, in you esteemed view, gives a toss about the Ahrish people.

If you detect a lack of respect on my part for the UKIP yocks and jocks in the EP and their patronising stunt, you're quite on the money. They don't represent Irish constituencies, and their smart aleck behaviour deserves contempt.

Farage's lame little Lisbon canvassing stunt at the GPO was equally deserving of ridicule. As is any notion that this bunch of jingoistic opportunists gives a damn about the "Ahrish". But feel free to extol Nigel's virtues.

darkhorse · 01-03-2013 12:15AM

biko wrote: »

Must say I like him. Here he is doing what he does best, showing how EU is using taxpayer's money to sustain itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aROq6Q2jC0

Ya gotta admit, it would be hard to find any holes in anything that the man says.

darkhorse · 01-03-2013 12:21AM

McDave wrote: »

There's a reason we're in hock. It's because we goofed up.

Who is the we?

darkhorse · 01-03-2013 12:27AM

McDave wrote: »

What a weasel Farage is.

Is a weasel someone who tells the truth, if so, thats exactly what he is.

darkhorse · 01-03-2013 01:06AM

McDave wrote: »

If you, or anyone else, can demonstrate we were formally forced in such a scenario, believe me there'll be no problem in legally transferring the full net costs of the collapse of our pirate banks onto the EZ at some point in the future.

Letters show extent of pressure put on Lenihan for bailout - The Irish ...

Trichet says letters to Lenihan should not be published ...

darkhorse · 01-03-2013 01:40AM

darkhorse wrote: »

First of all, it was "Respect the Irish Vote", and not as stated above. Secondly, how many Irish politicians did you count in that clip from the European Parliament. Third, could give me some idea as to what senior irish politicians, in you esteemed view, gives a toss about the Ahrish people.

McDave wrote: »

If you detect a lack of respect on my part for the UKIP yocks and jocks in the EP and their patronising stunt, you're quite on the money. They don't represent Irish constituencies, and their smart aleck behaviour deserves contempt.

In other words, McDave, your answer is, "I don't know". No need to stand on formalities, just say, I don't know. Now, I've read over the past couple of years from our goverment politicians, that we put the green jersey on, but maybe if said politicians wore the green jersey that actually demanded respect for the Irish citizens, (like the ones the UKIP party wore in the EP), well, just ponder that one.

Scofflaw · 01-03-2013 01:48AM

darkhorse wrote: »

Letters show extent of pressure put on Lenihan for bailout - The Irish ...

Trichet says letters to Lenihan should not be published ...

It's quite extraordinary the number of people who apparently can't tell the difference between 2008 and 2010.

The bank bailout by the Irish State started in 2008. The State's bailout by the EU/IMF began in 2010. There is a 2-year gap, during which nearly all the bonds in the banks were paid off.

regards,
Scofflaw

McDave · 01-03-2013 08:44PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Who is the we?

Irish electorate - Irish government - Irish institutions. You know, essential components of a sovereign Irish state.

Assuming you feel you have no part in the blame, who do *you* think goofed up?

McDave · 01-03-2013 08:48PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Letters show extent of pressure put on Lenihan for bailout - The Irish ...

Trichet says letters to Lenihan should not be published ...

And just like I actually said, if coercion can be demonstrated, we'll be able to make our case for an EZ-wide solution quite forcefully.

So, what's your *net* point?

McDave · 01-03-2013 08:55PM

darkhorse wrote: »

In other words, McDave, your answer is, "I don't know". No need to stand on formalities, just say, I don't know. Now, I've read over the past couple of years from our goverment politicians, that we put the green jersey on, but maybe if said politicians wore the green jersey that actually demanded respect for the Irish citizens, (like the ones the UKIP party wore in the EP), well, just ponder that one.

I can speak for myself thank you darkhorse. I don't need you to put words in my mouth.

My answer was quite clear. I've no respect for that populist smart aleck Farage and his risible attention-seeking stunts. I'd take most Irish politicians over him most days of the week. But feel free to bat for him if you will.

shanered · 01-03-2013 10:06PM

McDave wrote: »

I'd take most Irish politicians over him most days of the week. But feel free to bat for him if you will.

Well I truly believe that the politicians we've had over the last good few years have been dreadful. None stood up against Europe in any sense, shape or form. we've been a pushover and hence half the woes of our current recession.
The last few treaties have been double voted in because the Paymasters and the puppets didn't like our democratic vote.
Bit of a farce in my view.
I have to say I respect the way Nigel has the balls to stand up against the powers that be such as the EU president and others.
Also think he is right about whatever he is talking about from any clips of him I can find.
I dont see many Irish politicians of his caliber, though we're not famous for good politicians at this stage are we?

oscarBravo · 01-03-2013 10:53PM

shanered wrote: »

None stood up against Europe...

...which is only a problem if you perceive "Europe" as a malevolent external actor working against our interests, as opposed to a union in which we are a participant. But then:

...the Paymasters and the puppets didn't like our democratic vote.

I guess that is, indeed, how you view it.

BlitzKrieg · 01-03-2013 10:58PM

Nigel has the balls to stand up against the powers that be such as the EU president

ffs...

McDave · 01-03-2013 11:02PM

shanered wrote: »

Well I truly believe that the politicians we've had over the last good few years have been dreadful. None stood up against Europe in any sense, shape or form. we've been a pushover and hence half the woes of our current recession.
The last few treaties have been double voted in because the Paymasters and the puppets didn't like our democratic vote.
Bit of a farce in my view.
I have to say I respect the way Nigel has the balls to stand up against the powers that be such as the EU president and others.
Also think he is right about whatever he is talking about from any clips of him I can find.
I dont see many Irish politicians of his caliber, though we're not famous for good politicians at this stage are we?

I think you're right about the calibre of our politicians. However IMO 'Europe' is the wrong target. Our problem was our politicians didn't show enough leadership in developing a sustainable economy. Instead Ahern & co. just threw away the best chance we had to construct a stable economy and lay the foundations for real wealth and a proper infrastructure.

All Farage does is posture an insult. He doesn't have a particularly positive agenda. It's easy to snipe from the sidelines with cheap jingoistic patter playing to his gallery.

darkhorse · 02-03-2013 01:18AM

McDave wrote: »

Irish electorate - Irish government - Irish institutions. You know, essential components of a sovereign Irish state.

Assuming you feel you have no part in the blame, who do *you* think goofed up?

I'm touched that you consider me an essential component of a former sovereign state, but I really can't take any of the credit for voting for FF/FG/Labour/PDs or Greens. In answer to your question, who do I think goofed, I would have to say that pure greed, dishonesty and deception played the biggest part our recession. So, really, apart from the government at the time, I dont thinked anyone goofed, they knew what they were doing. Oh, by the way, I, like the majority of people, never partied or went mad.

shanered · 02-03-2013 01:55AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

ffs...

Is that really all you can add?
I'm expressing my opinion ffs.
No need for posts like that tbh.

I am not for one moment saying Europe is the enemy or should be, its just respect for the Irish electorate when we vote no in a referendum.
I'm sure Iceland doesn't want to be an enemy of Europe even when the burnt the bondholders, but it was nessessary to get their house in order and not lose control of their own situation.
We should always be part of European dialogue and we should be involved with the EU, but the sometimes blatent disregard and contempt that sometimes comes from the top brass in the EU really annoys me.
It not black and white either, there somewhere inbetween where we are now being Europes lapdog and completely leaving the Eurozone is what we need. A direction the UK is slightly taking recently.

darkhorse · 02-03-2013 01:55AM

oscarBravo wrote: »

...which is only a problem if you perceive "Europe" as a malevolent external actor working against our interests,

I do perceive it that way.

Here’s another little stat to chew on. The European banking crisis is just that – a European crisis. But as we know, this has not been addressed at European level. Rather, the cost has been delegated to individual countries regardless of their size or ability to pay. For instance:

Ireland makes up 0.9 percent of the EU population
The Irish economy makes up 1.2 percent of EU GDP

Ok, we’re small. So how much of the entire European banking debt have we paid?
The Irish people have paid 42 percent of the total cost of the European banking crisis

darkhorse · 02-03-2013 02:01AM

oscarBravo wrote: »

But then: I guess that is, indeed, how you view it.

There is no other way to view it. We had to vote twice.

EU referendum: Ireland rejects Lisbon Treaty - Telegraph

RTÉ News: Morning Ireland - Lisbon Treaty Referendum 2009

darkhorse · 02-03-2013 02:07AM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

ffs...

I can't follow that.

oscarBravo · 02-03-2013 02:16AM

darkhorse wrote: »

There is no other way to view it. We had to vote twice.

And who has the sole and only authority to determine whether a referendum will be called?

I'll give you a hint: it's the Oireachtas. Read Article 46 of our Constitution.

darkhorse wrote: »

I can't follow that.

I'll spell it out for you, although it's a bit depressing to have to. One: there's no such thing as an "EU President". Two: assuming that it's a standard misrepresentation of the role currently held by Herman Van Rompuy, that of President of the European Council, to describe that role as "the powers that be" indicates either a laughable lack of understanding of how the EU institutions work, or - more likely - a willingness (probably due to confirmation bias) to accept caricatures of such roles as fact.

Or, in short: ffs.

Scofflaw · 02-03-2013 10:55AM

darkhorse wrote: »

I do perceive it that way.

Here’s another little stat to chew on. The European banking crisis is just that – a European crisis. But as we know, this has not been addressed at European level. Rather, the cost has been delegated to individual countries regardless of their size or ability to pay. For instance:
Ireland makes up 0.9 percent of the EU population

The Irish economy makes up 1.2 percent of EU GDP

Ok, we’re small. So how much of the entire European banking debt have we paid?
The Irish people have paid 42 percent of the total cost of the European banking crisis

The figure is completely false, quite aside from the fact that there is no such thing as a "European bank", and therefore no such thing as a "European bank bailout". The Member States were determined to retain the power to regulate banks in their own hands, and therefore never created a European mechanism to handle banking resolution.

That's how "the EU" works - it has only the powers given to it. Because the Member States didn't make it responsible for banking resolution before the crisis, it had no responsibility for banking resolution in the crisis, and there is therefore no question of the EU "delegating" the cost to the Member States - on the contrary, the Member States had failed to delegate it in advance to the EU.

The correct figures for the cost of national bailouts around the EU can be found here: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/government_finance_statistics/excessive_deficit/supplementary_tables_financial_turmoil

Those are the figures the "42%" is supposedly based on, but that number is made up by only using part of the figures - the "capital transfers" part of bailouts. Ireland's bailout was mostly done by "capital transfers", whereas everyone else's bailouts were handled by "financial transactions". The real figure for our bailout as a proportion of all recorded bailout costs is closer to 7%, and its disproportion to our population reflects the grotesque pre-crisis size of our banks.

As usual, there's a good Seamus Coffey article pointing out how false the figure is: http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2013/02/deficit-debt-and-expenditure-impacting.html

cordially,
Scofflaw

McDave · 03-03-2013 06:25PM

darkhorse wrote: »

I'm touched that you consider me an essential component of a former sovereign state, but I really can't take any of the credit for voting for FF/FG/Labour/PDs or Greens. In answer to your question, who do I think goofed, I would have to say that pure greed, dishonesty and deception played the biggest part our recession. So, really, apart from the government at the time, I dont thinked anyone goofed, they knew what they were doing. Oh, by the way, I, like the majority of people, never partied or went mad.

I would primarily blame the Irish government. However, the Irish electorate set the tone for the government by repeatedly endorsing low standards. The electorate cannot be given a free pass for its credulousness and naïveté. Practically no controls were placed on FF 's narrow self-interest by voters here. And we can see the direct results of FF selling the country down the river.

But remember, we did all this as a sovereign state. Now we're in hock, we've no-one to blame but ourselves. Individual protestations of innocence count for little. I never 'partied' or voted for FF. But what difference did that make in the end? Ahern got 70% endorsements in opinion polls. Too many adults ran up massive credit card debts, bought 4-wheel drives, overpaid for houses and bragged about it at dinner parties. I'm afraid they set the tone for an appalling bout of consumerism. The culture of materialism and excess was palpable and pervasive. Irish society created that reality entirely of its own volition.

I certainly wouldn't blame the EU for the hole we dug for ourselves. Most other EZ democracies managed to steer clear of the excesses we fell for. Ireland made its own bed.

KyussBishop · 03-03-2013 10:54PM

An opposing argument to that, is that all EU member states share blame for not implementing proper regulatory controls within the EU, upon agreeing to the single currency, and for not implementing proper recovery/stabilization policies at the same time either, which was complete madness really as the Euro was bound to blow up eventually (and many economists warned of this).

When you've got a single currency, shared by many member states, you pretty much can't put 100% blame for a countries economic problems on any one member state, when a massive contributing part to the reason things blew up, is that the entire EU put in place a disastrously dangerous system, without the proper checks and limits.

In the context of talking about recovery too, it misses the point, because the Euro is very much an 'all together' or 'all apart' kind of thing, because if member states don't stop the bickering/blame-game, and don't implement actual recovery policies, then the Euro will fail (even if it takes the best part of a decade to happen), and many countries will suffer significant damage in moving back to local currencies.

darkhorse · 04-03-2013 02:00AM

McDave wrote: »

They don't represent Irish constituencies.

You are, of course right, but these people do. Can ya spot the irony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhxp-JJqDo&feature=player_detailpage

McDave · 04-03-2013 10:23PM

darkhorse wrote: »

You are, of course right, but these people do. Can ya spot the irony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhxp-JJqDo&feature=player_detailpage

I don't subscribe to the 'default' school of thinking. Regrettably the real damage was done by the frontloading of a decade's worth of growth into the spending of the Ahern-McCreevy-Cowen bubble years. And the utter failure to put any brakes on the entire financial system - whether they be pirate banks, 'systemic' banks, building societies or even credit unions.

I can't personally blame Noonan for a problem he didn't cause. Hence you'll forgive me if I don't see the irony you see yourself. The link between Farage and Noonan is, I'm afraid, simply too tenuous for words.

Nigel Farage MEP

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