Sexism you deal with in everyday life? Mod Note in first post. Please read

wallycharlo · 14-02-2013 08:03PM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Exactly. Hence the reason TLL was created in the first place as aplce where women could post to avoid the mud slinging matches. There's nowhere else on this website where this could be posted and respected. People have genuine stories here. Yes, there are man haters out there but I don't identify with them. I live in Spain where sexism definitely exists, I posted about it because two other posters did and it's good to vent about it because it pees me off. Some men have come in questioning people's experiences in a defensive and condescending manner as if they were an attack on them personally and I genuinely haven't seen any attacks in here on men as a gender, just people's experiences of gender-based discrimination from BOTH genders.

People can act the prick under the guise of anonymity and people should recognise that. The internet is far from an ideal world. You should know that too.

Understood.

I'm relatively new to this particular forum, and hence still may need to come up to speed with the dress code of the various sub forums so to speak, so apologies for any such ignorance of such things on my part.

... so, time to get the thread back on the correct rail !

Ectoplasm · 14-02-2013 11:06PM

Something that used to happen to me far more in the past happened again today and I immediately thought of this thread. I work in an industry which is seriously male dominated although it's been changing a bit in the last few years.

Today, I was dealing with a customer over the phone and giving him dimensions on a product. He is having trouble understanding me so of course it's my fault. Then he comes out with a familiar old chestnut: "Look, just put me onto one of the lads, I need to speak to someone who knows what they're talking about". In the past, (usually depending on how busy I was or how rage filled I felt) I would have either brushed over the insult and continued until he got it or put him through to someone else because I'd be close to losing it. Today I did something different.

I asked him to repeat what he'd said and was quite shocked when he did, going so far as to emphasise that 'the lads' would better understand him. I then told him, very politely, that I am someone who knows what they're talking about and he could either get the information from me or I'd have to hang up - this wasn't just me being contrary either, the only reason I was taking the call was that the phones were hopping. He went BALLISTIC. Asked for my name and said he was going to make a complaint to my boss (I work with my brothers, it's our company but that's actually beside the point). I gave him my first name only (surname would give it away) and directed him towards our general manager and hung up. I couldn't give a monkeys if he never purchases another thing from us - I'm sick of this attitude - that 'girls' don't understand anything - and I really thought it was disappearing from the industry but apparently its still out there.

I heard later that the GM had laughed him off the phone, explained that I'm responsible for the production of every technical manual that leaves the building and told him he was a sexist dinosaur who was lucky to still have an account with us.

Jelly2 · 15-02-2013 08:24AM

EMF2010 wrote: »

Something that used to happen to me far more in the past happened again today and I immediately thought of this thread. I work in an industry which is seriously male dominated although it's been changing a bit in the last few years.

Today, I was dealing with a customer over the phone and giving him dimensions on a product. He is having trouble understanding me so of course it's my fault. Then he comes out with a familiar old chestnut: "Look, just put me onto one of the lads, I need to speak to someone who knows what they're talking about". In the past, (usually depending on how busy I was or how rage filled I felt) I would have either brushed over the insult and continued until he got it or put him through to someone else because I'd be close to losing it. Today I did something different.

I asked him to repeat what he'd said and was quite shocked when he did, going so far as to emphasise that 'the lads' would better understand him. I then told him, very politely, that I am someone who knows what they're talking about and he could either get the information from me or I'd have to hang up - this wasn't just me being contrary either, the only reason I was taking the call was that the phones were hopping. He went BALLISTIC. Asked for my name and said he was going to make a complaint to my boss (I work with my brothers, it's our company but that's actually beside the point). I gave him my first name only (surname would give it away) and directed him towards our general manager and hung up. I couldn't give a monkeys if he never purchases another thing from us - I'm sick of this attitude - that 'girls' don't understand anything - and I really thought it was disappearing from the industry but apparently its still out there.

I heard later that the GM had laughed him off the phone, explained that I'm responsible for the production of every technical manual that leaves the building and told him he was a sexist dinosaur who was lucky to still have an account with us.

What an absolutely fantastic response! You're a bit of a heroine to me this morning.:)

Roisy7 · 15-02-2013 08:49AM

Jelly2 wrote: »

What an absolutely fantastic response! You're a bit of a heroine to me this morning.:)

Seconded! You're quite the legend

Honey-ec · 15-02-2013 10:21AM

I had a customer like that back in my days selling cars, EMF, only it was a woman. Refused point blank to deal with me because a girl couldn't possibly know anything about cars.

Turns out the crotchety old geebag did me a massive favour; she bought the car off one of lads and was literally back in the dealership or on the phone once a week for the rest of the year, complaining about non-existent problems with the car. The poor guy she bought off was tearing his hair out.

Ectoplasm · 15-02-2013 11:36AM

Jelly2 wrote: »

What an absolutely fantastic response! You're a bit of a heroine to me this morning.:)

Thanks for that!

It was only when I thought about it afterwards that I wondered why I'd never done it before; part of it is the whole 'customer is always right' thing (they're not btw, they're usually wrong and a$$holes with it but that's another issue) but another part of it was that I was, in the past, so accustomed to that kind of attitude that I accepted it on some level. Which is kind of sad, but at least I now have a way to confront it.

Honey-ec wrote: »

I had a customer like that back in my days selling cars, EMF, only it was a woman. Refused point blank to deal with me because a girl couldn't possibly know anything about cars.

Turns out the crotchety old geebag did me a massive favour; she bought the car off one of lads and was literally back in the dealership or on the phone once a week for the rest of the year, complaining about non-existent problems with the car. The poor guy she bought off was tearing his hair out.

I think that's the really annoying thing - I didn't want to deal with that git in the first place, I was trying to prevent him being stuck on hold for ten minutes! How some people manage to 'gender' certain knowledge I'll never understand! A lucky escape for you though

panda100 · 15-02-2013 07:44PM

darklighter wrote: »

Not sure if this counts but sure see what yiz think:

Was listening to Today FM this morning and they were doing the sports bulletin & they were finished & Ian Dempsey had to remind the sports guy that the Ireland Ladies had trounced the English ladies in the rugby. Not only trounced but beat them for the first time ever!! And they werent even going to mention it.

Now when (if) we ever beat New Zealand in (mens) rugby, it'll be all over the news for at least a week. Now I know there are differing levels of interest between the two teams etc. but not to mention it at all was abit wrong.

Ugh, sexism in relation to fitness and sport is the most frustrating thing for me. One thing that really pisses me of is the presumtion that I'm poor at sports or weak because I'm a women.

I entered a 5 mile race before Christmas along with a few male friends. Despite the fact that they had done little exercise or training, they still thought they were going to beat me. I do pretty hardcore training at least four days a week. It was pretty satisfying when I left them all trailing in the dust after the first five minutes.

I was out last Saturday night, and for some unknown reasons some of the guys I was out with started arm wrestling each other. I asked if I could have a go, and got laughed out of it. I eventually convinced them to let me have a go, and I beat two of them. I ws delighted with myself

I don't think they couldn't fathom the concept that I was physically stronger then them.

GalwayGuy2 · 15-02-2013 10:01PM

This will sound like I have an agenda, but I honestly don't. But probably the most common sexist thing I ever hear is "Man/Woman to man/Woman". Or "As a man to another man"

It's a bit, well since your a woman/man you won't have any clue what I'm talking about, and if you disagree with me your wrong.

I dunno, I have just a very vague dislike of someone trying validate what they're saying with their gender :S (Even though I've probably done it myself)

Does anybody else find that kind of sexist?

cdaly_ · 19-02-2013 10:55AM

beks101 wrote: »

One thing that Ive always experienced in the workplace is the old talking-to-the-chest / blatant body scans mid conversation. I can think of at least three married middle aged men who do this any time I engage them, all three senior producers, highly respected, intelligent men who I would otherwise feel privileged to work alongside.

I'm a feminist, married middle aged man, only brother of a bunch of sisters and well aware of sexist behaviour and how I might defuse it and I still have to keep a "DON'T STARE AT THE BOOBS!" mantra running in my head. I have to consciously work to look her in the eyes.

Vojera · 19-02-2013 01:26PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

This will sound like I have an agenda, but I honestly don't. But probably the most common sexist thing I ever hear is "Man/Woman to man/Woman". Or "As a man to another man"

It's a bit, well since your a woman/man you won't have any clue what I'm talking about, and if you disagree with me your wrong.

I dunno, I have just a very vague dislike of someone trying validate what they're saying with their gender :S (Even though I've probably done it myself)

Does anybody else find that kind of sexist?

For me, that's just as annoying (and patronising) as those people who say things like "Speaking as a parent...", because obviously if you don't have kids you're completely lacking in empathy and understanding.

I wouldn't consider it particularly sexist, just stupid! It's nearly a form of hedging your bets, if you get me. If they say that and then you disagree with what follows, it's not because they were wrong it's because you clearly wouldn't understand anyway, you stupid man/woman/non-parent/person who hasn't gone backpacking through Asia/etc.

beks101 · 20-02-2013 02:48AM

cdaly_ wrote: »

I'm a feminist, married middle aged man, only brother of a bunch of sisters and well aware of sexist behaviour and how I might defuse it and I still have to keep a "DON'T STARE AT THE BOOBS!" mantra running in my head. I have to consciously work to look her in the eyes.

I get that it's human nature to look.

But to so obviously stare, take a blatant departure from eye contact and the conversation - which is usually important, urgent and asking a lot of me in a professional capacity - to glance at my boobs or eyeball me from head to toe, is just massively demeaning, unsettling and annoying.

I'm not some scantily-clad playboy bunny walking around the office with it all hanging out, I'm a normal woman, conservatively dressed, usually trying to put out about 20 fires, and even if I encountered an absolute ridebag of epic proportions as I go about my business, departing from my professional reputation like that just wouldn't be on my radar. Cop on and a hefty dose of subtlety is key!

jaffacakesyum · 20-02-2013 09:09AM

beks101 wrote: »

I get that it's human nature to look.

But to so obviously stare, take a blatant departure from eye contact and the conversation - which is usually important, urgent and asking a lot of me in a professional capacity - to glance at my boobs or eyeball me from head to toe, is just massively demeaning, unsettling and annoying.

I'm not some scantily-clad playboy bunny walking around the office with it all hanging out, I'm a normal woman, conservatively dressed, usually trying to put out about 20 fires, and even if I encountered an absolute ridebag of epic proportions as I go about my business, departing from my professional reputation like that just wouldn't be on my radar. Cop on and a hefty dose of subtlety is key!

+1

There's no excuses for being so rude and demeaning as to stare at a women's chest when you're having a discussion, especially in the work place. And I don't buy into this "I'm a man, it's impossible not to do it". That's BS. I'm a woman who is attracted to other women, and I still can manage to look a girl in the eye when I'm talking to her :rolleyes:

GalwayGuy2 · 20-02-2013 02:34PM

I'm not some scantily-clad playboy bunny walking around the office with it all hanging out, I'm a normal woman, conservatively dressed, usually trying to put out about 20 fires, and even if I encountered an absolute ridebag of epic proportions as I go about my business, departing from my professional reputation like that just wouldn't be on my radar. Cop on and a hefty dose of subtlety is key!

In all honesty, even if you do have it all "hanging out" they shouldn't be "staring" disrespectfully. It is natural to glance at anything your attracted to, eyes, smile, hair, abs, biceps, vague physic, but staring for a long period of time is disrespectful, creepy and incredibly cringeworthy-awkward...and from a practical side it'll hardly attract women:P

I'm a woman who is attracted to other women, and I still can manage to look a girl in the eye when I'm talking to her

Ah, but you're not a man;)

Joke:pac:

jaffacakesyum · 20-02-2013 04:28PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Ah, but you're not a man;)

Joke:pac:

No, I'm better

(Joke? :P )

GalwayGuy2 · 20-02-2013 05:19PM

No, I'm better

(Joke? )

Not to drag this thread off topic, but this kind of reminded me of a quote which I kind of like, and for obvious reasons kind of don't like:P,:

Marilyn Monroe :Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.

BizzyLizzie · 22-02-2013 02:52AM

I frequently am on the receiving end of rolled eyes when I have the 'cheek' the involve myself in a discussion on football. Usually the comments I make aren't even acknowledged, I mean completely ignored and the conversation continues where it was before I said anything. Only seems to happen when I'm at a game with my dad and his friends. I wouldn't mind if I hadn't a clue what I was talking about but I'm generally proven to be right...a fact I delight in pointing out at a later date

On a similar note, whenever I'm somewhere with my father and he bumps into other males that he knows, they always seem to form a circle and leave me standing outside it like a fool. I'm not sure if it's sexism or what but it never happens to the son of one of my dad's friends. I've noticed it happen to their daughter's though. My mother has commented on the same thing happening to her with dad's group of buddies. Maybe his friends are just horrible people!

P_1 · 22-02-2013 01:06PM

Used to get this all the time in a previous job:

Female Colleague: There's this person on the phone who only wants to talk about his issue with a man, will you take the call?
Me: Ok pass them on.
Barking Buffoon: Bullschite...
Me: Actually I wouldn't be the best person to talk about this, my colleague who you were just speaking to knows so much more about it than I do, would you like me to pass you back to her?
Barking Buffoon: *silence*

Princess Peach · 22-02-2013 08:09PM

This week the guys on my team all did a pool on who would win the golf, but a fiver in each. None of the girls on the team were invited to enter. When the team director questioned why they told her it's a man's thing.

Now I will admit I don't follow the golf, but would have joined the pool for the laugh. And not having even asked any of the girls how are they to know who is or isn't a golf fan!

April O Neill · 26-02-2013 12:16PM

Dean0088 wrote: »

Rugby seems to have a good female following.

Morag · 26-02-2013 09:58PM

And women's rugby is finally getting some airspace, with the Irish women's team winning the Tripple Crown for this years 6 nations.

Stheno · 27-02-2013 01:23AM

Princess Peach wrote: »

This week the guys on my team all did a pool on who would win the golf, but a fiver in each. None of the girls on the team were invited to enter. When the team director questioned why they told her it's a man's thing.

Now I will admit I don't follow the golf, but would have joined the pool for the laugh. And not having even asked any of the girls how are they to know who is or isn't a golf fan!

I once had the very good fortune to go to a high profile rugby game courtesy of my work.

One of the people in the group who was also invited but wasn't an employee (we'd a few tickets going spare) was in the pub after and commented that it was strange to see a buuurrdddd interested in rugby*. He neatly got thrown out by my colleagues.

The past few weeks every week my Monday call with one of my colleagues starts with a "Did you watch this weekend" and a good ten minutes spent on it.

Sport can be strange, but if you show an interest sometimes it can work in your favour, I only got the ticket to that match, after my Monday morning caller said, ask Steno she's a big rugby fan.

*I got the biggest laugh when I asked him who he'd played for and in what position. He never had. I'd been a second row in a fairly decent club for a year

You can get the opposite in some ways, and maybe it's a subject for another thread. I interviewed someone two years ago who was dead keen to work parttime one week a month, and needed to get qualified.

They got qualified and when they did we sat down, and they informed me one week a month wouldn't work, they'd prefer to work 2-3 days maybe twice a month.

My company invested significantly in this person, they individually gained worldwide recognised qualifications, and then turn around and change what they want to do in a very short time. That to me is damaging women in the workplace, I might start a thread on it.

the_syco · 27-02-2013 02:25AM

BizzyLizzie wrote: »

On a similar note, whenever I'm somewhere with my father and he bumps into other males that he knows, they always seem to form a circle and leave me standing outside it like a fool. I'm not sure if it's sexism or what but it never happens to the son of one of my dad's friends. I've noticed it happen to their daughter's though. My mother has commented on the same thing happening to her with dad's group of buddies. Maybe his friends are just horrible people!

From a dudes perspective; they're being ****s of the highest order. Next time it happens, keep walking.

Nicker · 05-03-2013 11:32AM

My dad owns a vet's clinic in a small country town with 3 vets, a few years back he had a woman working for him but many farmers would specifically request not to send her out on their calls because "she's not capable" and they only wanted one of her male colleagues. She was only young too and didn't get a chance to leave the small animal clinic much so eventually she moved on and left for a city clinic. Since then my dad hasn't employed anymore female vets.

My dad isn't a big rotten sexist pig (3 daughters have seen to that) but for the sake of his business he couldn't afford to have a female vet on staff due to the business running spin-offs.

eviltwin · 05-03-2013 12:23PM

I was driving home from work on Sunday night about 11m, I live out in a quiet part of Dublin so have to take a lot of country roads. I overtook a car with three guys in it at lights so they proceeded to follow me tailgating and using their full beam for about 2 miles before they went a different route. I would doubt they would have done that only for the fact they saw I was a woman on my own.

Jenneke87 · 05-03-2013 02:10PM

I was at my brother in law's place recently and he had a friend over. My sister is currently taking driving lessons and she got hit by another car who switched lanes too late before an exit and bumped into her. So she told how she and her driver filled in the necessary forms to which his friend responded:"Well at least you learned how to do that now, you're a woman so you will be doing that many more times." Charming....he then proceeded to tell how he never did anything around the house and let his girlfriend do all of the housework saying that wasn't "his job" and that that's what she was for." I pity her....

Das Kitty · 05-03-2013 02:22PM

Nicker wrote: »

My dad owns a vet's clinic in a small country town with 3 vets, a few years back he had a woman working for him but many farmers would specifically request not to send her out on their calls because "she's not capable" and they only wanted one of her male colleagues. She was only young too and didn't get a chance to leave the small animal clinic much so eventually she moved on and left for a city clinic. Since then my dad hasn't employed anymore female vets.

My dad isn't a big rotten sexist pig (3 daughters have seen to that) but for the sake of his business he couldn't afford to have a female vet on staff due to the business running spin-offs.

Your dad should have told the farmers to cop the eff on and grow up instead of discriminating against his staff member. Yeah, he might have tought he'd lose some of the old boy farmers, but in reality I'd say very few would jump ship. Similar situation in a vets I know, the practise owner sent the woman out anyway and after a few visits they realised how good a vet she was and there wasn't another complaint.

If he's ruling out female vets now, he's actively discriminating against them.

Jerrica · 05-03-2013 02:59PM

I was in the States over the weekend and treated myself to a fairly fabulous pair of new shoes. On going to pay the assistant automatically turned to my fiancé and asked how he would like to pay. "With her card" he says and we both burst out laughing. I don't know if that was sexism or not, but it certainly wasn't the only time over the weekend that it was assumed that he'd be the one paying for food/ travel/ everything!

Roisy7 · 05-03-2013 03:03PM

Jenneke87 wrote: »

I was at my brother in law's place recently and he had a friend over. My sister is currently taking driving lessons and she got hit by another car who switched lanes too late before an exit and bumped into her. So she told how she and her driver filled in the necessary forms to which his friend responded:"Well at least you learned how to do that now, you're a woman so you will be doing that many more times." Charming....he then proceeded to tell how he never did anything around the house and let his girlfriend do all of the housework saying that wasn't "his job" and that that's what she was for." I pity her....

Grrrrrrrr!! You just KNOW that he's a terrible, inconsiderate driver too, you can tell >:(

Guys with that kind of attitude baffle me. Nothing cool/manly about not being capable of cleaning up after yourself or feeding yourself. My dad was in the army and was expected to be clean and cook (it went in a rota, he said there was one soldier whose meals they always looked forward to!), he's more of a man than any ape like that. /rant!

sillysmiles · 05-03-2013 03:41PM

Nicker wrote: »

My dad owns a vet's clinic in a small country town with 3 vets, a few years back he had a woman working for him but many farmers would specifically request not to send her out on their calls because "she's not capable" and they only wanted one of her male colleagues. She was only young too and didn't get a chance to leave the small animal clinic much so eventually she moved on and left for a city clinic. Since then my dad hasn't employed anymore female vets.

My dad isn't a big rotten sexist pig (3 daughters have seen to that) but for the sake of his business he couldn't afford to have a female vet on staff due to the business running spin-offs.

I grew up on a farm and I know that if a vet is crap then farmers will say they don't want them going near the place, regardless of their gender.

Morag · 05-03-2013 05:02PM

fair enough but new vets all start somewhere and there are some who will not give a female vet a fair a shake starting off as a male vet.

Sexism you deal with in everyday life? ***Mod Note in first post. Please read***

Comments

Sexism you deal with in everyday life? Mod Note in first post. Please read