Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Japer

GRMA wrote: »

Ah yeah, things were fine and dandy in the ritish empire and sure things got even better after the act of union. You should read a history book.

you should read one about what happened in the rest of the world. Look at the huge numbers killed by Belgium in Africa as resent as a hundred years ago. Look at the Russian gulags. Closer to home and more recent, look at the millions of various Europeans killed in German Concentration camps.

gurramok

Japer wrote: »

you should read one about what happened in the rest of the world. Look at the huge numbers killed by Belgium in Africa as resent as a hundred years ago. Look at the Russian gulags. Closer to home and more recent, look at the millions of various Europeans killed in German Concentration camps.

Even closer to home, we had mass starvation under British rule, aka the Famine.

youreadthat

Nodin wrote: »

Yep. Name one - other than the British - that has people defending it on a regular basis. Or a semi-regular basis. Or ever.

Every single one.

GRMA

Japer wrote: »

you should read one about what happened in the rest of the world. Look at the huge numbers killed by Belgium in Africa as resent as a hundred years ago. Look at the Russian gulags. Closer to home and more recent, look at the millions of various Europeans killed in German Concentration camps.

If we want to look as massacres in Africa we dont need to go back as far as a hundred years for the British.

The British empire was at the very least, just as barbaric, cruel and oppressive, if not more so, than all the empires you mention, bar none.

This is readily apparent looking just at Irish history.

Judgement Day

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Can you point me to where I said this was ok?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81544990&postcount=519

Fratton Fred

GRMA wrote: »

What did we have to fear from other empires? Like France? They wanted to help us.

Really? like they "Helped" Spain, Portugal and Northern Italy?

If the French invasion in 1798 had worked, the Irish would have been begging the British to come back to help get rid of them

GRMA wrote: »

If we want to look as massacres in Africa we dont need to go back as far as a hundred years for the British.

The British empire was at the very least, just as barbaric, cruel and oppressive, if not more so, than all the empires you mention, bar none.

This is readily apparent looking just at Irish history.

Really, in what way?

Do you think the indigenous population of South America would consider the British treatment of the Irish less barbaric then the treatment they faced under the Spanish?

How do you think the Algerians view the Irish war of Independence? Do you think they feel like they were "Lucky"?

Ask Armenians what they thought about life under the Ottomans, probably glad it wasn't the British, I'm sure.

partyguinness

Bloody hell...is this thread still going.

Lelantos

partyguinness wrote: »

Bloody hell...is this thread still going.

"Poppies for sale! get your poppies here! Discount for RA members!"

Spread

Fred - old bean! You come across as a typical British right on sort of chap. The way you try and try again to legitimise the barbarism of colonial rule would give the impression that you have not sank back in your armchair with a cup of Rosie and thought the process through. No country likes to be overrun/invaded. No amount of talk about roads/bridges being built, educating the ignorant or exchanging cultural values (one way of course) makes sense. The fact is that empire building was all about rape, loot and pillage. Not your fault that you don't get it as this historical axiom is anathema to most British minds who's history lessons were, er, taught by teachers that had been educated in that system.
But like most colonial ruling nations ......... the chicks come home to roost and, in the face of seismic change, are left pining for the old days when Britannia ruled the waves and Johnny Foreigner knew his place.
Get with the programme Fred and take the pressure off your spleen. Try eating Mr Kipling instead of reading Rudyard .......... leaves a far nicer taste in the mouth

partyguinness

"Why would an Irish person wear a poppy?"Because they want to support the Poppy Appeal organised by the Royal British Legion and/or/because [insert appropriate reason as desired].There you go.

Japer

Spread wrote: »

No country likes to be overrun/invaded.

so what are you doing in the USA? Ask the native Americans how they feel....or any of the people who have a grievance with the USA before lecturing others on " colonial ruling nations".

If you believe "No country likes to be overrun/invaded. ", why was your USA so slow in coming to the aid of such overrun / invaded countries in WW1 and WW2?

Fratton Fred

Spread wrote: »

Fred - old bean! You come across as a typical British right on sort of chap. The way you try and try again to legitimise the barbarism of colonial rule would give the impression that you have not sank back in your armchair with a cup of Rosie and thought the process through. No country likes to be overrun/invaded. No amount of talk about roads/bridges being built, educating the ignorant or exchanging cultural values (one way of course) makes sense. The fact is that empire building was all about rape, loot and pillage. Not your fault that you don't get it as this historical axiom is anathema to most British minds who's history lessons were, er, taught by teachers that had been educated in that system.
But like most colonial ruling nations ......... the chicks come home to roost and, in the face of seismic change, are left pining for the old days when Britannia ruled the waves and Johnny Foreigner knew his place.
Get with the programme Fred and take the pressure off your spleen. Try eating Mr Kipling instead of reading Rudyard .......... leaves a far nicer taste in the mouth

Spread, my old mucker, how's she cuttin?

I have not once tried to defend empires, or the British one. If I have I would be grateful if you could point to it.

Now, here's a bit of news for you.

No, The British Empire was not the worst. Not the best and not benevolent, but not the worst. Also, no, the Irish were not treated worse than the jews under Hitler or whatever such sob story people like to come up with.

No, the Famine wasn't genocide and yes, a lot of Irish people did quite nicely under the British and carried out their own bit of Empire building. Ask yourself why, for example, the people of Montserrat celebrate St Patrick's day. Not because they love the Irish (Although obviously, the whole world do ) but because they chose that day to rise up against their imperial slave owners who, as like most Irish people, would be celebrating that day.

The Idyl Race

gurramok wrote: »

Even closer to home, we had mass starvation under British rule, aka the Famine.

We also had mass emigration, destitution, slums, tuberculosis, the Magdalen homes and Letterfrack under Irish rule. Up to the end of DeValera's rule as Taoiseach, was independence any better than what had gone before? Ireland was still run for the benefit of a tiny minority except this time they were Catholics. Whoop de do.

partyguinness

Japer wrote: »

so what are you doing in the USA? Ask the native Americans how they feel....or any of the people who have a grievance with the USA before lecturing others on " colonial ruling nations".

If you believe "No country likes to be overrun/invaded. ", why was your USA so slow in coming to the aid of such overrun / invaded countries in WW1 and WW2?

You sound like you are losing the run of yourself. That last point is a whole different thread.

Fratton Fred

Japer wrote: »

so what are you doing in the USA? Ask the native Americans how they feel....or any of the people who have a grievance with the USA before lecturing others on " colonial ruling nations".

If you believe "No country likes to be overrun/invaded. ", why was your USA so slow in coming to the aid of such overrun / invaded countries in WW1 and WW2?

From what I have learnt on this thread, the Native Americans would be perfectly entitled to burn Spread out of his house tonight and murder his children. After all, they would only be "Fighting Back".;)

Spread

Japer wrote: »

so what are you doing in the USA? Ask the native Americans how they feel....or any of the people who have a grievance with the USA before lecturing others on " colonial ruling nations".

If you believe "No country likes to be overrun/invaded. ", why was your USA so slow in coming to the aid of such overrun / invaded countries in WW1 and WW2?

A bit of a leap Japer ............ retired and came out here about 18 months ago so unless they introduce the draft to foreigners over 60, I won't be invading anywhere

Fratton Fred

The Idyl Race wrote: »

We also had mass emigration, destitution, slums, tuberculosis, the Magdalen homes and Letterfrack under Irish rule. Up to the end of DeValera's rule as Taoiseach, was independence any better than what had gone before? Ireland was still run for the benefit of a tiny minority except this time they were Catholics. Whoop de do.

Up until the second world war, most countries were run for the benefit of a few. Lets face it, the seven main founding fathers of the US, who signed a deceleration stating that "all men were equal under god" all owned farms and plantations worked by slaves.

Obviously "All Men" only applied to the white christian ones.

The Idyl Race

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Up until the second world war, most countries were run for the benefit of a few. Lets face it, the seven main founding fathers of the US, who signed a deceleration stating that "all men were equal under god" all owned farms and plantations worked by slaves.

Obviously "All Men" only applied to the white christian ones.

It says a lot though that life in Britain, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand was a lot more attractive to Irish people, both before and after independence, even before the War.

Dalken

Im over and back to England working, no one expects you to wear one in my experience. It's part of British culture and it seems they start wearing them earlier and earlier every year. I wouldnt be offended to see an Irish person here wear a poppy thats their business, it doesn't hurt anyone. I don't know why people here still go on about it every year, its time we grew up a bit in this country and stopped wondering about our past and what the Brits might be up to...they sure as hell know or care f*ck all about what we do.

Spread

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Spread, my old mucker, how's she cuttin?

I have not once tried to defend empires, or the British one. If I have I would be grateful if you could point to it.

Now, here's a bit of news for you.

No, The British Empire was not the worst. Not the best and not benevolent, but not the worst. Also, no, the Irish were not treated worse than the jews under Hitler or whatever such sob story people like to come up with.

No, the Famine wasn't genocide and yes, a lot of Irish people did quite nicely under the British and carried out their own bit of Empire building. Ask yourself why, for example, the people of Montserrat celebrate St Patrick's day. Not because they love the Irish (Although obviously, the whole world do ) but because they chose that day to rise up against their imperial slave owners who, as like most Irish people, would be celebrating that day.[/QUOTE]

Ungrateful fuckers. After all we did for them. Educated them, taught them Irish, showed them ye olde equivelent of Riverdance (camera cue to row of drunken Irish plantation owners shooting under the dancers' toes) etc.
This is not the way I would think .......... but it is possibly your train of thought. Because (I'm not blaming you) that was the way you were taught Fred!

marwelie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poppy_Appeal

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one. To possibly sacrifice yourself in war for your country (and im not talking ROI/UK/NI stuff here) when you're barely out of school is the most selfless act anyone can commit.

bobbysands81

K-9 wrote: »

Yeah that's great, didn't really address my point but wasn't expecting it tbh.

Ask me a question and I'll answer it.

bobbysands81

Japer wrote: »

All the European countries had Empires : Belgium, Germany, France, Spain. Portugal etc. We were part of the UK, and Irish people made up a third of the admonistration of India, for example. In the 20th century, we had much to fear from the like of Germany and Russia, and hundreds of thousands of Irish people fought against those empires....if they did not / nobody did, its almost certain your life would be a lot worse.;)

We don't know what Germany and Russia 'might' have done. All we know is that British Governmental policies are/were directly (through murder) and indirectly (through intentional neglect) responsible for the deaths of millions of Irish people.

Yet you'd swear by reading your posts that Britain in the past was a friendly ally and not a murderous regime on this island.

Chuck Stone

marwelie wrote: »

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one.

I watched all three and all it did for me was underscore how futile the deaths of those young people were. I find it bemusing how the people of the UK don't demand that their forces be taken out of that hell hole. That's why, for me at least, the poppy represents mass slaughter of ordinary people, often for obscure reasons.

Also, the poppy seems to have been manipulated to 'manufacture consent' as it were. I pity the fool in the public eye in the UK who'd refuse to wear one on principle. Methinks the outcry to conform would be the end of his career.

I'd imagine people like Eamon Holmes, Dara O Brin and Lious Walsh (sp?) are all too aware of the hissy fit the poppy fascists would throw if they failed in their duty to wear the poppy. Further, is it a coincidence that Girls Aloud's Nadine Coyle (of Derry) disappears from the UK at this time of year? Or is it that she refuses want to wear a poppy but knows that the poppy fascists would want her metaphorical head if she dared appear on the British airwaves 'naked' of poppy.

Indeed this poppy fascism is the antithesis of what the people laid down their lives for on the beaches of Normandy and plains of Europe in WWII. For the above reason and the slaughter of my kin-folk on the streets of the north by the British Army I will never wear a poppy.

bobbysands81

Judgement Day wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81544990&postcount=519

You must have difficulty with basic English mate, because that's disgraceful intentional misrepresentation of what I said.

bobbysands81

marwelie wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poppy_Appeal

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one. To possibly sacrifice yourself in war for your country (and im not talking ROI/UK/NI stuff here) when you're barely out of school is the most selfless act anyone can commit.

Even more selfless if you're a Volunteer and not gaining financially from it surely?

bobbysands81

marwelie wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poppy_Appeal

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one. To possibly sacrifice yourself in war for your country (and im not talking ROI/UK/NI stuff here) when you're barely out of school is the most selfless act anyone can commit.

Maybe some British politicians should watch that and ensure their 'heroes' get the treatment that their sacrifices deserve instead of these people being forced to beg by selling poppies.

Why don't their Government look after them
Properly?

Fratton Fred

Spread wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Spread, my old mucker, how's she cuttin?

I have not once tried to defend empires, or the British one. If I have I would be grateful if you could point to it.

Now, here's a bit of news for you.

No, The British Empire was not the worst. Not the best and not benevolent, but not the worst. Also, no, the Irish were not treated worse than the jews under Hitler or whatever such sob story people like to come up with.

No, the Famine wasn't genocide and yes, a lot of Irish people did quite nicely under the British and carried out their own bit of Empire building. Ask yourself why, for example, the people of Montserrat celebrate St Patrick's day. Not because they love the Irish (Although obviously, the whole world do ) but because they chose that day to rise up against their imperial slave owners who, as like most Irish people, would be celebrating that day.[/QUOTE]

Ungrateful fuckers. After all we did for them. Educated them, taught them Irish, showed them ye olde equivelent of Riverdance (camera cue to row of drunken Irish plantation owners shooting under the dancers' toes) etc.
This is not the way I would think .......... but it is possibly your train of thought. Because (I'm not blaming you) that was the way you were taught Fred!

Even by your standards, that's a load of bollocks.

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Even more selfless if you're a Volunteer and not gaining financially from it surely?

All depends if you can use it as a front for drug dealing and fuel smuggling I guess.

Spread

marwelie wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poppy_Appeal

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one. To possibly sacrifice yourself in war for your country (and im not talking ROI/UK/NI stuff here) when you're barely out of school is the most selfless act anyone can commit.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori:
mors et fugacem persequitur virum
nec parcit inbellis iuventae
poplitibus timidove tergo.

You gotta be joking. Unless your brains are downstairs. But that mix of testosterone and hero worship is very powerful. Out here, you join the army to fund your education (which makes you a sort of prostitute) or you can't get a job in civvy street. That's why the rich recruiting grounds are in the Appalachians, north of England etc. and other unemployment black spots.