Prison officer dies after shooting in Armagh.

3GAINSBOROUGH · 01-11-2012 03:14PM

gallag wrote: »

All I did was question his statement of fact that this officer deserved to die for the way he was treating prisoners, I pointed out it could be a drug dealing dissident that ordered the hit.

You are mistaken.
Dissidents do not deal drugs. They tax drug dealers profits. They also charge drug dealers for protection, and for a pitch to sell drugs in.
Dissidents are also involved on robbing cash in transit theives, and racketeering pub and nightclub owners. They control the security on doors of pubs and clubs in order to control the drug dealing pitches, and tax the dealers profits.
Dissidents do not directly get involved in drugs, they get involved with the cash profit made from dealing drugs.
Killing a Prisoner Officer is unconnected to the drugs trade. It is a direct product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhimane way inmates are treated. You are confusing the two issues; drug dealing, and prison conditions. They are separate issues.

gallag · 01-11-2012 03:16PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

Agreed.
Dissidents are not true Republicans, they are gangsters.
True Republicans want change through political means not terrorism.
Killing Prison Officers has nothing to do with the Republican movement.
Killing a Prison Officer in the North is a product of inmates being treated in an inhumane way, and the conditions in Maghaberry.

Still trying to put reason to madness. Tell me how it is possible to treat prisoners inhumanity no a day's? The amount of groups for rights and ethics etc up here astounding, I find it hard to believe they are being treated as anything but prisoners. Mabey they think the tail should be waging the dog?

3GAINSBOROUGH · 01-11-2012 03:19PM

gallag wrote: »

Still trying to put reason to madness. Tell me how it is possible to treat prisoners inhumanity no a day's? The amount of groups for rights and ethics etc up here astounding, I find it hard to believe they are being treated as anything but prisoners. Mabey they think the tail should be waging the dog?

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16992

charlemont · 01-11-2012 03:19PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

Prison officer must be a terrifying job, especially in a country like Ireland where there is hardly any protection or resources for them to avoid being blackmailed, threatened, etc.
We have all heard how the druh trade in prisons is rife, and a huge percentage go into prison only to become addicted to drugs because the higher up scum threaten and bully them into it.

The prison officers are the same, theres a constant fear of family being treatened and themselves to smuggle in drugs.
There have been quite a few cases where prison officers and even police in this country have been caught and convicted of smuggle thousands worth of drugs. Cornered and forced to do it some of the cases no doubt.

Well This incident has F all to do with drugs but I agree with some of your comments and the powers that be are responsible for keeping the drug trade in the hands of scum.

I'v been to prison so i was upset to hear about this incident as the vast majority of P.O 's are sound.

awec · 01-11-2012 03:21PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16992

And what?

It's a prison. Those inside it need to remember where they are and why they are there.

Am I supposed to feel sympathetic toward terrorists or something?

gallag · 01-11-2012 03:24PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

You are mistaken.
Dissidents do not deal drugs. They tax drug dealers profits. They also charge drug dealers for protection, and for a pitch to sell drugs in.
Dissidents are also involved on robbing cash in transit theives, and racketeering pub and nightclub owners. They control the security on doors of pubs and clubs in order to control the drug dealing pitches, and tax the dealers profits.
Dissidents do not directly get involved in drugs, they get involved with the cash profit made from dealing drugs.
Killing a Prisoner Officer is unconnected to the drugs trade. It is a direct product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhimane way inmates are treated. You are confusing the two issues; drug dealing, and prison conditions. They are separate issues.

What inhumane way????? How is it possible???? The prisons are ran by our politicians, it's not like they are British controlled institutions that have no watch groups and can act with impunity ffs.

granturismo · 01-11-2012 03:24PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

You are mistaken.
..It is a direct product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhimane way inmates are treated. You are confusing the two issues; drug dealing, and prison conditions. They are separate issues.

So, prison conditions warrant the murder of a prison officer. Murder is also inhumane. You are confusing the value of a life.

Valetta · 01-11-2012 03:27PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16992

Notice how they don't say who commissioned the report, or who prepared it?

Also, that piece is over three years old.

You seem to know an awful lot about dissident republicans?

Most of your posts are written as stating facts.

3GAINSBOROUGH · 01-11-2012 03:28PM

K-9 wrote: »

No, no, you are assuming I'm assuming that, you missed the start of my first post which said maybe you are right, I just offered a perfectly reasonable alternative which you want to dismiss for some strange reason.

Your posts are a bit all over the place on this thread, you don't respect the dissidents and regard them as drug dealers yet want them treated as special category prisoners seemingly. I can't really make out what your thinking is.

I will clarify my thinking in a simple way that you will be able to grasp.

1. Dissidents are not true Republicans, they are gangsters. Dissidents do not deal drugs, they tax drug dealers cash profits in return for protection.

2. I do not condone the killing of Prison Officers. I do not condone the conditions of Maghaberry, or the inhumane way inmates are treated either.

3. Killing Prison Officers has nothing to do with the Republican movement. It is a product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhumane way inmates are treated.

4. The Prison Officer made a mistake, and was killed. This will bring about change in Maghaberry, and a change to the way Prison Officers treat inmates.

Whether one agrees with my points of view or not, the above is the reality of the situation.

Your point of view on the other hand is naive. You make the knee jerk reaction that a Prison Officer is killed in the North, therefore it must be by drug dealing dissidents.

Like I said before, a Prison Officer is not killed in the North for no reason.

Valetta · 01-11-2012 03:33PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

I will clarify my thinking in a simple way that you will be able to grasp.

1. Dissidents are not true Republicans, they are gangsters. Dissidents do not deal drugs, they tax drug dealers cash profits in return for protection.

2. I do not condone the killing of Prison Officers. I do not condone the conditions of Maghaberry, or the inhumane way inmates are treated either.

3. Killing Prison Officers has nothing to do with the Republican movement. It is a product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhumane way inmates are treated.

4. The Prison Officer made a mistake, and was killed. This will bring about change in Maghaberry, and a change to the way Prison Officers treat inmates.

Whether one agrees with my points of view or not, the above is the reality of the situation.

Your point of view on the other hand is naive. You make the knee jerk reaction that a Prison Officer is killed in the North, therefore it must be by drug dealing dissidents.

Like I said before, a Prison Officer is not killed in the North for no reason.

How do you know all this?

I'm fascinated.

K-9 · 01-11-2012 03:34PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

I will clarify my thinking in a simple way that you will be able to grasp.

1. Dissidents are not true Republicans, they are gangsters. Dissidents do not deal drugs, they tax drug dealers cash profits in return for protection.

3. I do not condone the killing of Prison Officers. I do not condone the conditions of Maghaberry, or the inhumane way inmates are treated either.

4. Killing Prison Officers has nothing to do with the Republican movement. It is a product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhumane way inmates are treated.

3. The Prison Officer made a mistake, and was killed. This will bring about change in Maghaberry, and a change to the way Prison Officers treat inmates.

Whether one agrees with my points of view or not, the above is the reality of the situation.

Your point of view on the other hand is naive. You make the knee jerk reaction that a Prison Officer is killed in the North, therefore it must be by drug dealing dissidents.

Like I said before, a Prison Officer is not killed in the North for no reason.

I don't think it will bring about much change at all so maybe I'm not the nieve one!

Again I clearly stated maybe you are right, it could be a few different options, you're the one dismissing a likely option, not me. If you ignore what I post its a pretty meaningless discussion.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 03:34PM

Saying that there was a reason for this doesn't make one an apologist. Nor does saying it was an inevitability.

The issue with the prisons has been building for a long long time and now it has reached tipping point. People have warned that this would happen. Anyone who was paying attention could see that this would happen. That's what makes this such a tragedy.

The ultimate responsibility lies with the people who did this obviously, but if you do something which has an inevitable negative outcome, something which is clearly signposted - it has happened before remember, when the blanket men were mistreated - then I think you have a degree of responsibility for what happens to people under your watch.

If the prison was run properly, like portlaoise, this would have have happened. It wouldn't even have to be like Portlaoise, all that was needed was some movement, which the prison agreed to back in 2010, to put in special chairs which made invasive body searches unnecessary and stopped scenes, like those from the film Hunger, where people are stripped, beaten and have their anal cavity searched.

As someone who has campaigned for prisoners rights and a change in the way things are done precisely because I didn't want to see crap like this or a hungerstrike or other things which garner support and propaganda for dissident republicans - this event today is very disheartening, things can only get worse from here, the prisoners will be treated worse and we will have a merry go round of reaction on all sides. Stupid thing to do.

gallag · 01-11-2012 03:37PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

I will clarify my thinking in a simple way that you will be able to grasp.

1. Dissidents are not true Republicans, they are gangsters. Dissidents do not deal drugs, they tax drug dealers cash profits in return for protection.

2. I do not condone the killing of Prison Officers. I do not condone the conditions of Maghaberry, or the inhumane way inmates are treated either.

3. Killing Prison Officers has nothing to do with the Republican movement. It is a product of the conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhumane way inmates are treated.

4. The Prison Officer made a mistake, and was killed. This will bring about change in Maghaberry, and a change to the way Prison Officers treat inmates.

Whether one agrees with my points of view or not, the above is the reality of the situation.

Your point of view on the other hand is naive. You make the knee jerk reaction that a Prison Officer is killed in the North, therefore it must be by drug dealing dissidents.

Like I said before, a Prison Officer is not killed in the North for no reason.

How can you say this prison officer made a mistake???? How are inmates being treated inhumanely in such a monitored institution?? And this statement

"4. The Prison Officer made a mistake, and was killed. This will bring about change in Maghaberry, and a change to the way Prison Officers treat inmates."
Shows your true colours.

Angus MacGyver · 01-11-2012 03:41PM

Im getting tired of the word inhumanity used when discribing conditions in prisons.
The so called humans in prison care little for treating people humanely when they commited the crimes they are convicted of.
This latest event only highlights the disregard they hold human life in.
Yet there is always somebody somewhere ready to stand and defend them.

I think the world needs to redefine the words human and humane before we start affording elements who seek to destroy lives the same rights we afford their victims.

Sadly, anyone who is the victim of serious crime will often feel that they are the lesser when it comes to how each party is are treated post trial.

My sincere sympathies to the mans family and his colleagues.

Super-Rush · 01-11-2012 03:42PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

A prison officer does not get shot dead for no reason.
So many of you are not thinking about that.
This was not a random killing. He was killed as payback for something he did.

Unless you have some evidence to back these claims up i suggest you stop posting on this matter right now.

A man has been shot and killed and all you can go on about is trivial sh1te that you're making up in your head.

There could be one of a million reasons why this man was killed but you seem to be focusing on something you've plucked out of the sky. Have some respect for the man and his family and stop it.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 03:42PM

Valetta wrote: »

How do you know all this?

I'm fascinated.

It's fairly common knowledge. In Dublin for example there are two factions, one (Alan Ryans) nicks money off of drug dealers, as in robs the cash from their houses or whatever. That why they had him killed. The other faction gets paid protection by drug dealers and will do their dirty work for them.

K-9 · 01-11-2012 03:44PM

GRMA wrote: »

Saying that there was a reason for this doesn't make one an apologist. Nor does saying it was an inevitability.

The issue with the prisons has been building for a long long time and now it has reached tipping point. People have warned that this would happen. Anyone who was paying attention could see that this would happen. That's what makes this such a tragedy.

The ultimate responsibility lies with the people who did this obviously, but if you do something which has an inevitable negative outcome, something which is clearly signposted - it has happened before remember, when the blanket men were mistreated - then I think you have a degree of responsibility for what happens to people under your watch.

If the prison was run properly, like portlaoise, this would have have happened. It wouldn't even have to be like Portlaoise, all that was needed was some movement, which the prison agreed to back in 2010, to put in special chairs which made invasive body searches unnecessary and stopped scenes, like those from the film Hunger, where people are stripped, beaten and have their anal cavity searched.

As someone who has campaigned for prisoners rights and a change in the way things are done precisely because I didn't want to see crap like this or a hungerstrike or other things which garner support and propaganda for dissident republicans - this event today is very disheartening, things can only get worse from here, the prisoners will be treated worse and we will have a merry go round of reaction on all sides. Stupid thing to do.

Just because these guys think they are some successors to the Hunger Strikers does not mean they are not common protection racketeers and shouldn't be treated as such.

Just because somebody thinks their cause is just, doesn't necessarily make it so.

3GAINSBOROUGH · 01-11-2012 03:45PM

gallag wrote: »

What inhumane way????? How is it possible???? The prisons are ran by our politicians, it's not like they are British controlled institutions that have no watch groups and can act with impunity ffs.

You are mistaken.
Maghaberry is in the North.
The prisons in the North are not run by our politicians, they are out of their jurisdiction.
Prisons in the North are controlled by the British Government as they are part of the United Kingdom.
I feel I have educated you enough, you can Google the rest.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 03:50PM

K-9 wrote: »

Just because these guys think they are some successors to the Hunger Strikers does not mean they are not common protection racketeers and shouldn't be treated as such.

Just because somebody thinks their cause is just, doesn't necessarily make it so.

I never said it was just.

And they should be treated better than they are, it prevents stuff like this from happening and just as importantly starves dissidents of their most potent propaganda.

They are not ordinary prisoners, never have been. Thats not saying they are somehow better than other prisoners, the opposite may be true.

Can you give me a good reason why the prison should not be run along the lines of Portlaoise?

awec · 01-11-2012 03:51PM

GRMA wrote: »

I never said it was just.

And they should be treated better than they are, it prevents stuff like this from happening and just as importantly starves dissidents of their most potent propaganda.

They are not ordinary prisoners, never have been. Thats not saying they are somehow better than other prisoners, the opposite may be true.

Can you give me a good reason why the prison should not be run along the lines of Portlaoise?

Why?

granturismo · 01-11-2012 03:51PM

Super-Rush wrote: »

Unless you have some evidence to back these claims up i suggest you stop posting on this matter right now.

She obviously has close connections to the republican movement:rolleyes::

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

Now is the calm before the storm.
It wont be Sinn Fein organising the uprising on the 100th anniversary of the 1916 Easter Rising.
You will see something you will remember for the rest of your life.

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

I am not at liberty to discuss this.
Suffice it to say, plans are well under way though.

3GAINSBOROUGH · 01-11-2012 03:52PM

GRMA wrote: »

It's fairly common knowledge. In Dublin for example there are two factions, one (Alan Ryans) nicks money off of drug dealers, as in robs the cash from their houses or whatever. That why they had him killed. The other faction gets paid protection by drug dealers and will do their dirty work for them.

Agreed.
You have summed up how it works.
So many people on this thread don't make the distinction between dissidents and Republicans.
They don't make the connection between conditions in Maghaberry, and the inhumane treatment of inmates; and the killing of a Prison Officer.
The naive knee jerk reaction is; that Prison Officer must have been killed by dissident Republican drug dealers.
They can't seem to see they are separate issues.

K-9 · 01-11-2012 03:52PM

GRMA wrote: »

Can you give me a good reason why the prison should not be run along the lines of Portlaoise?

Because it feeds their self delusion and importance. It's hardly as if they got the same treatment they'd stop their campaign. It's just a propaganda exercise.

K-9 · 01-11-2012 03:55PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

The naive knee jerk reaction is; that Prison Officer must have been killed by dissident Republican drug dealers.

Yet it strangely seems to be the most likely explanation, next it will be some black propaganda exercise.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 03:56PM

awec wrote: »

Why?

Read the rest of the sentence. I'm not saying they should have a great time, caviar for dinner etc, but just not be mistreated they way they are, with regards to strip searches and the cleaning chemicals etc

gallag · 01-11-2012 03:57PM

3GAINSBOROUGH wrote: »

You are mistaken.
Maghaberry is in the North.
The prisons in the North are not run by our politicians, they are out of their jurisdiction.
Prisons in the North are controlled by the British Government as they are part of the United Kingdom.
I feel I have educated you enough, you can Google the rest.

I live in the north and ment that our devolved government in stormont takes care of this, it's impossible that the prisoners are being treated like anything but prisoners with the amount of watch dogs ombusmen etc. These prisoners expect better treatment than others.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 04:00PM

K-9 wrote: »

Because it feeds their self delusion and importance. It's hardly as if they got the same treatment they'd stop their campaign. It's just a propaganda exercise.

Has there been protests over Portlaoise? Are there pickets and rallies held frequently over it? Has a prison officer in portlaoise been killed recently? Is Portlaoise the number one source of propaganda for dissident republicans and the number one recruiting tool for dissatisfied republicans, as in they see history repeating itself?

The answer to all the above is no.

Is Portlaoise safe?

Yes.

Is it secure?

Yes.

But it feeds their self delusion and importance eh? That must be much worse than what happened today.

GRMA · 01-11-2012 04:02PM

gallag wrote: »

I live in the north and ment that our devolved government in stormont takes care of this, it's impossible that the prisoners are being treated like anything but prisoners with the amount of watch dogs ombusmen etc. These prisoners expect better treatment than others.

You are simply wrong. Get on to David Forde.

K-9 · 01-11-2012 04:05PM

GRMA wrote: »

Has there been protests over Portlaoise? Are there pickets and rallies held frequently over it? Has a prison officer in portlaoise been killed recently? Is Portlaoise the number one source of propaganda for dissident republicans and the number one recruiting tool for dissatisfied republicans, as in they see history repeating itself?

The answer to all the above is no.

Is Portlaoise safe?

Yes.

Is it secure?

Yes.

But it feeds their self delusion and importance eh? That must be much worse than what happened today.

I suppose we could give in to the next rag tag bunch of protection racketeers who see themselves as Republican. Giving in gives them legitimacy, giving into the Hungers Strikers demands hardly made things better?

gallag · 01-11-2012 04:07PM

GRMA wrote: »

Has there been protests over Portlaoise? Are there pickets and rallies held frequently over it? Has a prison officer in portlaoise been killed recently? Is Portlaoise the number one source of propaganda for dissident republicans and the number one recruiting tool for dissatisfied republicans, as in they see history repeating itself?

The answer to all the above is no.

Is Portlaoise safe?

Yes.

Is it secure?

Yes.

But it feeds their self delusion and importance eh? That must be much worse than what happened today.

Mabey they are getting special treatment in portlaoise and Mabey because it's an Irish prison they don't feel bad about some prods telling them what to do. You can't compare a prison in the south to one in the north. Is there more "dissidents" in the north prison? Etc.

Also I bet mantra of these prisoners still consider themselves prisoners of war while in a "British" prison and expect better treatment while in portlaoise they would just be prisoners.

Prison officer dies after shooting in Armagh.

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