STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Stove Fan wrote: »

It could be that the fire isn't established enough before the coal is added and so isn't enough heat there to fully ignite it? Smokeless fuel takes more lighting so I would say use plenty of kindling or firelighters.
The briquettes could well stifle the fire so I would put a layer of the coal on top of plenty of kindling and once going for 10-15 minutes put the briquettes on top.
You could also leave the stove door open a crack to increase the air but do remember to close it.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks Stove Fan, will give that a shot

mylomac wrote: »

Hi Stovefan, I have taken your advice from previous queries and have a pretty good idea what I want at this stage. In summary, I am adding a bolier stove in the main room of a bungalow, either a Boru Carrickmore 20K (which my sister has had for the last year and is delighted with) or an Arrow EB12HE (recommended by yourself).The pipes will be running up from the stove to a new dual/triple coil cylinder in the attic. I have spoken to one plumber and am getting a quote from another.
I have a few points that I hope you can clarify please.

1. I understand that the hot water pipe from the stove should rise to the cylinder to allow the garvity system to work. Can the return take the same route or are there any restrictions on how the return is routed.
2. There isnt an existing fireplace but the stove will be on an external wall and I can put in a new chimney and go to roof ridge level for around the cost of the metal flue, If I am exiting the stove into the chimney, does the choice of back or top exit from the stove make much of a difference in terms of the smoke draw - or should it all work pretty well via the chimney.
3. I understand that a 'leak radiator' can be used to dissipate heat in the gravity system. Is this just a normal rad ? Where should it be positioned in the system - does it have to be the first rad that is fed in the system ?
4. Is there a way of bypassing the cylinder via a thermostat when the water reaches the desired level ? Is there a switch or a valve that can be used ?

Thanks for any help.

Hi, yes the pipework should rise to the cylinder. The return pipe can follow the same route, this is normal.
For your chimney providing you don't have any horizontal flue runs more than 6 inches and use only 45 degree bends you should be fine. Personally in your situation I would use the top flue outlet on the stove, ie 600mm piece then a 45 degree bend with sootdoor on. Cement/seal the stoves fluepipe to the clay liner well and at the base of the clay liners if not using a stainless steel flexi liner in the new chimney install a external soot door below the level of where the stoves flue joins the main clay flue. We have this setup but to be honest If I was doing it again I would line the clay liners as well in a stainless steel flexi liner as it keeps the flue warmer.
For the heat leak this is just an ordinary radiator, the size of the heat leak radiator is usually specified in the stoves installation manual or between 10-30% boiler output depending on the stove manufacturer. In the case of the EB12 stove it's 10% so 1.2kw rad.
The heat leak rad should be plumbed off the main 1 inch pipes to the hot water cylinder but anywhere is ok providing it heats up without the central heating pump being on. The most usual place to locate it is in the bathroom, but anywhere where it will work is fine. This radiator should be permanently open by using lockshield valves with fixed heads rad valves. Ie not able to turn off.
For your cylinder temperature control you could use a cylinder thermostat and zone valve on the pipework to the cylinder. This should not block any feed or vent. Please be aware that if the cylinder gets fully heated the heat leak radiator will get hotter. This is fine as both stoves have boiler thermostats. Another alternative control is a Cytrol valve but a bit old technology now.

Stove Fan:)

kali23 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan,

I have taken your advice and purchased a morso squirrel this afternoon for the sitting room/non-boiler stove in my house. While I was in the stove shop, I was pointed in the direction of a Charnwood 16B boiler stove for the kitchen and I was wondering do you think this stove is a good choice for the Kitchen/boiler stove for the space I want to heat.

Thanks again for all the info.

Hi,

The country 16B should be fine room heat wise but I think it could be undersized boiler wise to heat 15 single rads. It's hard to say without knowing the radiator sizes. It may only heat 8/9 of them. http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/country-16b-multifuel-boiler.aspx
The 16B produces a max of 13kw to water. You really need I would say around 18kw as a basic questimate. Can you view an arrow EB20HE stove?

The squirrel is a great stove:D

Stove Fan:)

hi just need some advice,putting a stove into a bungalow and have to rise the pipe into the attic,could i put a pump on in the attic to pump down into the cylinder and on passed into the the flow for the old gas boiler and then use the old pump thats on the rads circuit to pump the hot water around the house?

was going to use a second 3 port valve on the pipes coming down from attic,so when cylinder gets up to temp you would have two pumps pumping around a not very big heating circuit

would just like some opinions to know would this be safe first of all and would it work?

kali23 wrote: »

The lady in the shop told me her sister has the same stove and heats 16 rads and she has another customer who heats 22 rads from the Charnwood 16b. The single rads in our house will be

9 1200x500

5 1400-1600x500

And one small rad in the hot press.

I haven't seen the aarrow but I did contact one of the boiler stove companies whose link u posted and even though they have it listed on their website they told me they stopped stocking that stove as it was too troublesome??!!

Based on your rads the rad output is 15.5kw but you have to allow 2.5kw for heating the hot water cylinder. So in total you are looking for a boiler output of 18kw.

The 13 kw boiler on the charnwood would need 4 rads turned off to heat all the others to hot.

You see it may heat 16 or 22 rads but her rads must be a smaller size and hence lower heat output.

Did he specify the problems on the Aarrow EB20 stove? Not heard any problems myself and a few users here are very pleased with the EB series.
Was he trying to sell you a more expensive stove?

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan,

Thanks again for all that advice, the stove they were trying to sell me was a Hestia. I hadn't heard of it before and so I didn't contact them after that. He didn't specify the problems with the aarow and to be honest I didn't ask him to once I heard he didn't stock them.

I am concerned that I was strongly advised to put in the Charnwood and obviously that won't be sufficient to heat my house. I was told that their spec was based on burning wood and I would probably get more Kw's out of the boiler burning turf/briquettes/coal & basically because these other customers were able to heat roughly the same number of rads that I would too.

I find it unbelievable that I could be told this information especially as I am hoping to heat my house solely by this boiler!

Sorry, can I just ask is the EB20 7kw to room? If so does that mean it has a boiler of 13kw? Is the EB25 on sale yet? On their website it says 'coming soon.'

jameshayes wrote: »

Lads, I have a question about installing a stove...

the stove (stanley Oisin) will be located in my sitting room, in front of a flush wall which has a chimney at the other side, the stove will sit about 250mm off the ground on a platform and the flue pip will go straight up for 1.5 flue lengths then a 45 into the wall and chimney (another 45 in the chimney also)

my question is, do I need to do anything to the wall that will be behind the stove, it is a solid wall with plaster and skim over it..

Any help appreciated..

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, so long as the wall is solid and isn't drylined or has wallpaper or gloss paint it will be fine as is. It may crack the plaster due to the heat from the stove but you could if you wanted clad the wall behind with a vermiculite board and emulsion it in the same colour as the wall.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks again man! picked up the stove on the weekend but got they gave me the wrong colour flue pipe!!!

Just a confirmation of a question - where the flue pipe enters the wall in my sitting room, is it ok for this to be just regular 5'' flue pipe - doesn't need to be twin wall or anything special?

Thanks!

Stove Fan wrote: »

It's ok in singlewall pipe if it's going into a masonry chimney and the flue pipe isn't passing through a cavity wall or anything combustible inside. So long as everything it passes through is non combustible, ie solid masonry, then your fine in single walled pipe.

If on the other hand it was going through the wall to a new twinwall chimney then the twinwall should start inside the building and then go through the wall.

Ie singlewall pipe from stove max 1.5metre then 45 degree bend with sootdoor, then into twinwall insulated flue through wall and rest of the flue run.

Stove Fan:)

A1 man,

thanks again (again!)

Hi Stove Fan

New to Boards.ie. Have been reading this thread with interest. We are looking into installing an inset boiler stove in our sitting room which will heat our water and 12 radiators. Don't want a free standing stove as don't think it would look well in sitting room. We currently have OFCH that heats our bungalow but want to utilise the heat from the open fire in sitting room. Have been looking around the net for suitable stove and would welcome some advice. Sitting room is 16ft x 16ft and the 12 radiator sizes are as follows

Kitchen/Dining room 1400x500 Double/700x500 Double
Sitting room 1600x500 Double
Hall 1400x500 single
Utility 900x500 single
bedroom 1100x500 single
bedroom 1100x500 single
bathroom 1000x500 single
corridor 900x500 single
bedroom 1800x500 single
bedroom 1800x500 single
ensuite 600x500 single

What size stove would we need

Many thanks

Ludi wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan

New to Boards.ie. Have been reading this thread with interest. We are looking into installing an inset boiler stove in our sitting room which will heat our water and 12 radiators. Don't want a free standing stove as don't think it would look well in sitting room. We currently have OFCH that heats our bungalow but want to utilise the heat from the open fire in sitting room. Have been looking around the net for suitable stove and would welcome some advice. Sitting room is 16ft x 16ft and the 12 radiator sizes are as follows

Kitchen/Dining room 1400x500 Double/700x500 Double
Sitting room 1600x500 Double
Hall 1400x500 single
Utility 900x500 single
bedroom 1100x500 single
bedroom 1100x500 single
bathroom 1000x500 single
corridor 900x500 single
bedroom 1800x500 single
bedroom 1800x500 single
ensuite 600x500 single

What size stove would we need

Many thanks

Hi based on 11 radiators and heating the hot water you need a stove with a 15 kw output boiler. Your sitting room size depending on insulation requires anything from 3-5kw to heat this room.
I'm guessing your bungalow has reasonable insulation as the double rad in the sitting room has an output of around 2.5kw.
This rad would be switched off as the stove would heat this space.

I would say the Aarrow EB12HE inset might be a possible providing some of the rads had thermostatic rad valves fitted and were not all on full. The EB12HE stove produces max 12kw to water and 5kw to the room. You would leave the door open to other room(s) to let any excess heat escape.

Your oil system would need to be an open vented system and not a sealed/pressurised system. A plumber could check this for you as most boiler stoves need to be installed on an open vented system.

Stove Fan:)

Ludi wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan

Many thanks for your reply. All your time must be spent replying to all the queries. We have an F&E Tank in the attic so presume the central heating is open vented. House was insulated last year in both cavity walls and attic. Is it possible to run both OFCH and boiler stove at the same time? I know we have a single coil hot tank, so this would need to be replaced with a double coil

You should have 2 F&E tanks, One larger one to supply the hot water cylinder. The other one will be much smaller, this is to fill the rads/heating system.

Yes it's possible to run both depending on system link up but it's generally adviced to use each seperately. It's ok to use oil/gas first and then switch it off after you have got the fire lit.
Yes you would need a new twincoil cylinder, if plumbing it in basically.

Stove Fan:)

SmithySeller wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan, thanks for your advice. I have decided to change tack, and Im considering placing the stove on the far side, on the opposite side to each valley and opposite the sliding doors. This way the flue can have a straight climb of at least 4metres internally before reaching the wooden vaulted ceiling. Out of interest if you look at the photos again you will see a Gallery upstairs (great for heat loss ) this has about 10 metres squared of floor space and three bedrooms totalling about another 35 square metres. The stairs from the hall also leads up to the Gallery on the far side. The sunroom where the stove will be placed is about 4.5x4.5x4.8, given the heat loss through the Gallery what output stove do you think I should go for? I guess I might as well try heat the bedrooms while Im at it given all the heat is going up there anyhow. And would a convection based stove be better suited? Any recommendations? Ive attached a couple more photos as reminder, stove would placed about three feet to the right of the middle of the long couch, and thanks again

Hi, based on the lower room size and bedrooms and gallery I personally would install a stove around 9-11kw. It depends on the insulation but the sunroom does have quite a large glazed area. 9kw is based on high insulation.

The only thing with the double height and gallery the rooms up there could get too warm, you may need to close the bedroom doors once warmed up to help the heat spread downwards. You may consider a ceiling mounted fan to help spread the hot air downwards.

To be honest a convector stove is a good choice as the fire is generally contained in an inner casing and so the outer casing is generally cooler. The gap between them is ventilated to let the heat escape and can generally be installed in more tight locations with less clearance to combustibles than a standard stove. If you want more radiant/convected heat buy a normal stove but need more space away from combustibles.

Stove Fan:)

SmithySeller wrote: »

Its a new house, the insulation upstairs is excellent and retains heat pretty well. Its more the design that makes the sunroom (our main TV room) difficult to heat. I have a gas stove that is 3kw and electric that is also 3kw and when both are running they heat the room just fine. But its not sustainable to keep them running through the whole winter. I assume you mean 9/11kw nominal output?

Hi is the Charnwood Cove 2 any good had a look at one very impressed.

SmithySeller wrote: »

Its a new house, the insulation upstairs is excellent and retains heat pretty well. Its more the design that makes the sunroom (our main TV room) difficult to heat. I have a gas stove that is 3kw and electric that is also 3kw and when both are running they heat the room just fine. But its not sustainable to keep them running through the whole winter. I assume you mean 9/11kw nominal output?

8 kw max now sounds more than adequate in your situation as 6kw heats the space well with the 2 heaters:). As your house is new it should be very airtight and so any stove will need an air vent. You should be looking for a stove with an external air supply option.

The charnwood Cove and Island have this feature.
http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/charnwood-external-air-manifold.aspx

Stove Fan:)

Flue length is one thing that Im trying to get right. Out of interest do you know what length yours is? I believe 4.5 metres is building regs but not sure if that correlates to what is acceptable in all situations.