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Leinster Schools Rugby 2012-2013 [Provincial Schools Thread Link in Post 1]

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    #182
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Gordon Gecko wrote: »
    Who have you your eye on? Are we talking u18/19s or u21s/AIL?
    I would assume rugby_fan is talking about 19s level
    Having seen youths and 19s interpros this season there is several in the youths/clubs system that are v strong like prop peter dooley from birr, centre tom daly from carlow


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    #183
    Fight_Night
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Fight_Night


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Yeah Ross Byrne. Is he not in sixth year?

    Yeah he's in 6th year, serious talent in the Michaels backline between himself, Kelleher and McCarthy.


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    #184
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Fight_Night wrote: »
    Yeah he's in 6th year, serious talent in the Michaels backline between himself, Kelleher and McCarthy.

    To be honest I wasn't that impressed with McCarthy during the interpro's. Thought he was lucky to get ahead of Tim Schmidt. Think Terenure have a better backline than 'Michaels but 'Michaels have a better pack.


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    #185
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Peter Dooley
    Ross Molony
    Shane Delahunt
    Jack O'Neill
    Bobby Holland
    Billy Dardis
    Harrison Brewer
    Peter Robb
    Cian Kelleher
    Thomas Daly
    Adam Byrne
    Max McFarland

    would be the guys I think who have a good chance at getting into the academy next year. With the bolded being the more likely. The u20 6N and JWC will throw up some more names I'm sure.


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    #186
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Hagz wrote: »
    Peter Dooley
    Ross Molony
    Shane Delahunt
    Jack O'Neill
    Bobby Holland
    Billy Dardis
    Harrison Brewer
    Peter Robb
    Cian Kelleher
    Thomas Daly
    Adam Byrne
    Max McFarland

    would be the guys I think who have a good chance at getting into the academy next year. With the bolded being the more likely. The u20 6N and JWC will throw up some more names I'm sure.

    McFarland is also a full back isn't he? They would hardly take two full backs into the academy at the same time would they?


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    #187
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Hagz wrote: »
    Peter Dooley
    Ross Molony
    Shane Delahunt
    Jack O'Neill
    Bobby Holland
    Billy Dardis
    Harrison Brewer
    Peter Robb
    Cian Kelleher
    Thomas Daly
    Adam Byrne
    Max McFarland

    would be the guys I think who have a good chance at getting into the academy next year. With the bolded being the more likely. The u20 6N and JWC will throw up some more names I'm sure.
    3/12 are youths and 2/5 you highlight(and you know your stuff) are youths which is good to see.
    AIL also highlights some players esp those who are out of school a year or two
    Quint2010 wrote: »
    McFarland is also a full back isn't he? They would hardly take two full backs into the academy at the same time would they?
    Has he not played a lot of rugby with Leinster, Ireland 19s on the wing?
    Bringing in 2 full backs at same time isnt that big a deal. Academy positions depend on need of the province so Leinster could bring in 2 fbs if they felt there was a real need for that position


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    #188
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    The academy is quite light on backs, and considering they only took two backs last year (Marsh and McGrath) and a considerable amount of forwards, I would expect there to be more backs taken next year than forwards. If the rumours about Sherlock are true, then Hudson and SCM are the only full-backs in the academy and unless I'm mistaken, they are both in their final year. If we are to assume that those in their final year will graduate and leave the academy (which may not be the case) then there would be 5 backs and 12 forwards, and I'm including Coghlan as a back in this case.

    Prop is becoming a serious area of depth. Delahunt is someone who under normal circumstances you would be quite confident of going into the academy, but with Moore and Furlong there, is there a need for him? And I'm not surprised that Tracy is trying his hand at hooker given the talent at LH. The dark horse for me though, and I've said it before on another thread, is Robb. He's turning a few heads at u21 level for Old Belvedere and is so physically developed. He's the opposite of the typical 'stout' centres we are used to at Leinster, but he might have to wait a while and try impress at AIL level.


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    #189
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Hagz wrote: »
    The academy is quite light on backs, and considering they only took two backs last year (Marsh and McGrath) and a considerable amount of forwards, I would expect there to be more backs taken next year than forwards. If the rumours about Sherlock are true, then Hudson and SCM are the only full-backs in the academy and unless I'm mistaken, they are both in their final year. If we are to assume that those in their final year will graduate and leave the academy (which may not be the case) then there would be 5 backs and 12 forwards, and I'm including Coghlan as a back in this case.

    Prop is becoming a serious area of depth. Delahunt is someone who under normal circumstances you would be quite confident of going into the academy, but with Moore and Furlong there, is there a need for him? And I'm not surprised that Tracy is trying his hand at hooker given the talent at LH. The dark horse for me though, and I've said it before on another thread, is Robb. He's turning a few heads at u21 level for Old Belvedere and is so physically developed. He's the opposite of the typical 'stout' centres we are used to at Leinster, but he might have to wait a while and try impress at AIL level.

    true. He's left the academy and is happy out playing AIL in 2B with Skerries.


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    #190
    Oldboy 92
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Oldboy 92


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Sorry which Byrne are you referring to?
    Sorry the St Michaels 10, he was very impressive in the SCT Final. I was told that day he was only a 4th year.


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    #191
    fox_1973
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭fox_1973


    Oldboy 92 wrote: »
    Sorry the St Michaels 10, he was very impressive in the SCT Final. I was told that day he was only a 4th year.

    Ross Byrne, they must of been mistaken, he was in 5th year for the final


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    #192
    6dsp9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Hagz wrote: »
    The academy is quite light on backs, and considering they only took two backs last year (Marsh and McGrath) and a considerable amount of forwards, I would expect there to be more backs taken next year than forwards. If the rumours about Sherlock are true, then Hudson and SCM are the only full-backs in the academy and unless I'm mistaken, they are both in their final year. If we are to assume that those in their final year will graduate and leave the academy (which may not be the case) then there would be 5 backs and 12 forwards, and I'm including Coghlan as a back in this case.

    Prop is becoming a serious area of depth. Delahunt is someone who under normal circumstances you would be quite confident of going into the academy, but with Moore and Furlong there, is there a need for him? And I'm not surprised that Tracy is trying his hand at hooker given the talent at LH. The dark horse for me though, and I've said it before on another thread, is Robb. He's turning a few heads at u21 level for Old Belvedere and is so physically developed. He's the opposite of the typical 'stout' centres we are used to at Leinster, but he might have to wait a while and try impress at AIL level.

    I believe this is a big problem with the mindset around here,places in the academy shouldn't be given because theyve spent time in the gym and are "physically developed"


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    #193
    Leinster5
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Leinster5


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    To be honest I wasn't that impressed with McCarthy during the interpro's. Thought he was lucky to get ahead of Tim Schmidt. Think Terenure have a better backline than 'Michaels but 'Michaels have a better pack.
    Do Terenure have a better back-line than Michaels ? Thought Michaels still had McCarthy, Byrne, Kelleher and Leavy back from last year, or am I mistaken ?


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    #194
    gfitz95
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭gfitz95


    my potential academy players:
    billy dardis
    ross byrne
    rory moloney
    steven o neill (assuming he gets fit in time for cup)
    cian kelleher
    That is only people involved i the cup this year.Dont think Brewers good enough to make it but may on reputation.


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    #195
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    6dsp9 wrote: »
    I believe this is a big problem with the mindset around here,places in the academy shouldn't be given because theyve spent time in the gym and are "physically developed"

    Rugby is a physical sport and like it or not being bigger does give you an advantage. Now it's one thing just being ahead of the posse because you've been hibernating in the weights room, but it's another thing to be genetically built and have the skill set to match. When I said "physically developed" I meant in a natural sense. Some guys can spend a lot of time in the gym and not reach the size that others guys can. For instance if you take someone like Macken, who's been in the professional set-up for a while now, and you stood him beside Robb, there would be a noticeable difference. It's all my opinion of course, and Robb's size isn't the only thing that's impressive about him, but it's also not something to be sniffed at.


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    #196
    6dsp9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Hagz wrote: »
    Rugby is a physical sport and like it or not being bigger does give you an advantage. Now it's one thing just being ahead of the posse because you've been hibernating in the weights room, but it's another thing to be genetically built and have the skill set to match. When I said "physically developed" I meant in a natural sense. Some guys can spend a lot of time in the gym and not reach the size that others guys can. For instance if you take someone like Macken, who's been in the professional set-up for a while now, and you stood him beside Robb, there would be a noticeable difference. It's all my opinion of course, and Robb's size isn't the only thing that's impressive about him, but it's also not something to be sniffed at.


    How much of an advantage did being big give Tony Buckley and Stewart Maguire? They both got shunned because a more technically proficient player came along. The older you get the less and less size is a factor. Obviously it's always handy to have someone who's naturally big because they might have potential but invariably they don't have the skills to match. Macken was bigger than many at schools and was a very powerful lad who used his size to his advantage,but now he's matured into a very intelligent skilful player with a great step and a fresh pair of hands,despite not being as big as others. I appreciate your opinion


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    #197
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Leinster5 wrote: »
    Do Terenure have a better back-line than Michaels ? Thought Michaels still had McCarthy, Byrne, Kelleher and Leavy back from last year, or am I mistaken ?

    Terenure have Schmidt, Brewer, Dardis, Madigan (all Leinster u18 players-Madigan from 2011) O'Neill and Clarkin(injured last year-both Leinster U19 players) plus Tom O'Brien and Conor Weakliam all back from last year. I haven't seen 'Michaels backline but would have to be a very good one to come anywhere near Terenure's one. By the sounds of things 'Michaels have a very strong pack and this is where Terenure may struggle if they face them in the cup.
    gfitz95 wrote: »
    my potential academy players:
    billy dardis
    ross byrne
    rory moloney
    steven o neill (assuming he gets fit in time for cup)
    cian kelleher
    That is only people involved i the cup this year.Dont think Brewers good enough to make it but may on reputation.

    Be amazed if Brewer doesn't get an academy spot. Physically he is exactly what Leinster are crying out for in the centre going forward-plus he has fantastic hands and is an excellent defender. The only thing he lacks is pace which could count against him.


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    #198
    6dsp9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    gfitz95 wrote: »
    my potential academy players:
    billy dardis
    ross byrne
    rory moloney
    steven o neill (assuming he gets fit in time for cup)
    cian kelleher
    That is only people involved i the cup this year.Dont think Brewers good enough to make it but may on reputation.

    Don't think any of those lads will make it straight out.Someone mentioned Dooley,Daly,Byrne and McFarland,I'd add Delahunt to that list. Id say Delahunt and Dooley will go into sub academy next year after the summer. Byrne is already in there and judging by how he gets on with Ireland 20s will progress.Moloney is a serious operator but don't think he has the height to make it as a 2nd row. Ross Byrne is another class player with a quality boot. Ste O'Neill is good but not that good if you follow I think. What about this Conor McKeon from Gonzaga? I watched their game against Terenure last year and he was the best player on the pitch. He controls the game excellently and most importlantly looks like he has the attitude and qualities to go very far,as well as being a fearless tackler to boot.


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    #199
    6dsp9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Terenure have Schmidt, Brewer, Dardis, Madigan (all Leinster u18 players-Madigan from 2011) O'Neill and Clarkin(injured last year-both Leinster U19 players) plus Tom O'Brien and Conor Weakliam all back from last year. I haven't seen 'Michaels backline but would have to be a very good one to come anywhere near Terenure's one. By the sounds of things 'Michaels have a very strong pack and this is where Terenure may struggle if they face them in the cup.



    Be amazed if Brewer doesn't get an academy spot. Physically he is exactly what Leinster are crying out for in the centre going forward-plus he has fantastic hands and is an excellent defender. The only thing he lacks is pace which could count against him.

    I agree with Quint I think Brewer is a really good player and could be very valuable to Leinster,not due to his size but because he's something different to what we usually have here. He has that NZ flair and runs with the ball in two hands and importantly always looks to offload. Little bit predictable with the step back into traffic but a great operator who plays with serious enthusiasm


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    #200
    Fight_Night
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Fight_Night


    6dsp9 wrote: »
    Don't think any of those lads will make it straight out.Someone mentioned Dooley,Daly,Byrne and McFarland,I'd add Delahunt to that list. Id say Delahunt and Dooley will go into sub academy next year after the summer. Byrne is already in there and judging by how he gets on with Ireland 20s will progress.Moloney is a serious operator but don't think he has the height to make it as a 2nd row. Ross Byrne is another class player with a quality boot. Ste O'Neill is good but not that good if you follow I think. What about this Conor McKeon from Gonzaga? I watched their game against Terenure last year and he was the best player on the pitch. He controls the game excellently and most importlantly looks like he has the attitude and qualities to go very far,as well as being a fearless tackler to boot.

    Moloney is no smaller than 6'6'', think that's big enough for a second row no?


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    #201
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Fight_Night wrote: »
    Moloney is no smaller than 6'6'', think that's big enough for a second row no?

    Maybe you're confusing Rory with Ross (the Michael's second row). Rory Moloney is from Roscrea and is 6'4 I think. He could develop into a blindside though, in the McLaughlin mould.


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    #202
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    6dsp9 wrote: »
    Don't think any of those lads will make it straight out.Someone mentioned Dooley,Daly,Byrne and McFarland,I'd add Delahunt to that list. Id say Delahunt and Dooley will go into sub academy next year after the summer. Byrne is already in there and judging by how he gets on with Ireland 20s will progress.Moloney is a serious operator but don't think he has the height to make it as a 2nd row. Ross Byrne is another class player with a quality boot. Ste O'Neill is good but not that good if you follow I think. What about this Conor McKeon from Gonzaga? I watched their game against Terenure last year and he was the best player on the pitch. He controls the game excellently and most importlantly looks like he has the attitude and qualities to go very far,as well as being a fearless tackler to boot.

    Agreed about McKeon. Excellent player.


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    #203
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    6dsp9 wrote: »
    How much of an advantage did being big give Tony Buckley and Stewart Maguire? They both got shunned because a more technically proficient player came along. The older you get the less and less size is a factor. Obviously it's always handy to have someone who's naturally big because they might have potential but invariably they don't have the skills to match. Macken was bigger than many at schools and was a very powerful lad who used his size to his advantage,but now he's matured into a very intelligent skilful player with a great step and a fresh pair of hands,despite not being as big as others. I appreciate your opinion

    We’re talking about them going straight into the academy though. When they enter they will be training with the firsts and need to be physically developed enough to handle it. I’m not advocating picking the “gym monkeys” or freaks but if a player needs to bulk up considerably it should be done in the sub academy while leaving the more developed (though still technically proficient) to go straight in. I think this is how it is generally done anyway, and in a perfect world how it would always be done, but I think certain players have/will be given academy spots straight out of school in order to fend off the advances from other provinces/clubs.


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    #204
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    We’re talking about them going straight into the academy though. When they enter they will be training with the firsts and need to be physically developed enough to handle it. I’m not advocating picking the “gym monkeys” or freaks but if a player needs to bulk up considerably it should be done in the sub academy while leaving the more developed (though still technically proficient) to go straight in. I think this is how it is generally done anyway, and in a perfect world how it would always be done, but I think certain players have/will be given academy spots straight out of school in order to fend off the advances from other provinces/clubs.
    Surely it should be the other way round and the better technically proficient player should make it. The bulk can be added in time so the technically better player should be added to the academy while the technically proficient player is left to develop outside the full academy system.


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    #205
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    ormond lad wrote: »
    Surely it should be the other way round and the better technically proficient player should make it. The bulk can be added in time so the technically better player should be added to the academy while the technically proficient player is left to develop outside the full academy system.

    Agreed. Dan Leavy went straight into The Academy despite only just turned 18 and still having a fair bit of developing to do. If you're talented enough you're old enough.


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    #206
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    ormond lad wrote: »
    Surely it should be the other way round and the better technically proficient player should make it. The bulk can be added in time so the technically better player should be added to the academy while the technically proficient player is left to develop outside the full academy system.

    There’s adding a bit of bulk and then there’s adding “considerable bulk” as I stated in my comment. I clearly said that I am not advocating gym monkeys at the expense of more technically proficient players but as there is a finite number of players that can enter the full academy do you take the player straight out of school who is technically proficient but slight or the player who is technically proficient but has spent the year in the sub-academy, involved in the Irish under 20’s setup and physically more mature than the school leaver.

    There are some lads who just aren’t physically developed enough to go in and deal with tackling SOB/Healy on a daily basis and would gain far more from taking a year to bulk up and play AIL and Irish Under 20’s and come in ready for the rigours of the academy. I’m obviously not talking about the exceptional players amongst the school leavers but those on the margins.

    The policy used to select the academy is pretty much the same as what I’ve been saying so there must be something to it.


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    #207
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Agreed. Dan Leavy went straight into The Academy despite only just turned 18 and still having a fair bit of developing to do. If you're talented enough you're old enough.

    This has nothing to do with age. There are plenty of extremely talented players at all ages who's bodies are not physically capable of daily training with professional players. As I've said I have no problems with a much more talented guy being selected over a freak but when it's a marginal call on talent go with the more physically developed, give the other guy a year to develop and then he can come into the academy.


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    #208
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    There’s adding a bit of bulk and then there’s adding “considerable bulk” as I stated in my comment. I clearly said that I am not advocating gym monkeys at the expense of more technically proficient players but as there is a finite number of players that can enter the full academy do you take the player straight out of school who is technically proficient but slight or the player who is technically proficient but has spent the year in the sub-academy, involved in the Irish under 20’s setup and physically more mature than the school leaver.

    There are some lads who just aren’t physically developed enough to go in and deal with tackling SOB/Healy on a daily basis and would gain far more from taking a year to bulk up and play AIL and Irish Under 20’s and come in ready for the rigours of the academy. I’m obviously not talking about the exceptional players amongst the school leavers but those on the margins.

    The policy used to select the academy is pretty much the same as what I’ve been saying so there must be something to it.

    Leavy, The Byrne twins and Thornbury-straight into the academy from school without playing AIL or for the U20's.


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    #209
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Leavy, The Byrne twins and Thornbury-straight into the academy from school without playing AIL or for the U20's.

    From the post you quoted.
    Me wrote:
    I’m obviously not talking about the exceptional players amongst the school leavers but those on the margins.


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    #210
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with age. There are plenty of extremely talented players at all ages who's bodies are not physically capable of daily training with professional players.

    Yes-and there are some players whose talent outshines the fact that they arent as physically developed as they would be if they were a year or two older. Leavy played Irish Schools this year. Now he is in the academy. He is not an especially bulky guy for his age. The most important thing is that he has talent. And name me one player who is in the academy who isn't exceptional? That's what the academy is there for-to further develop players who have the most raw talent and because they play a position that Leinster feel they may need reinforcing in the future. They are not picked because they are the most physically developed. In that case-why isn't Peter Robb in the academy?


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    #211
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    All the players who went straight into the academy from school this year are all pretty big for their age.


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