Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

end of the road · 12-08-2012 06:18PM

Solair wrote: »

Well, there were two reasons:

1) The fact that those lines needed major refurbishment.
2) Cork (and Ireland generally) wasn't very economically buoyant and West Cork tourism had yet to kick-off. The decisions might have been very different had they been taken 30 years later when towns like Kinsale were buzzing with tourists and long-distance commuters were the norm.

well whatever about suspending services or closure, the fact that they tore them up was a discrase, but anyway its done now.

thomasj · 12-08-2012 11:28PM

I think the implementation of network direct in the Dublin 15 area in particular has had an affect on decreasing numbers on the maynooth line.

The introduction of the 39a alongside lack of bus rail connections has made the rail option less of a popular choice for me. If I was to get a train to clonsilla at night, the train would arrive as the bus was passing by making a 30 minute wait for the next one. That is not on. It's also likely that if I catch a 39 to clonsilla ill likely have to wait a while on the next train.

When it was taking over an hour to get a bus from blanchardstown to the city, and the train was a popular choice but that has changed.

Also spare a thought for those waiting on hansfield to open for over a year. The 70 has become a popular choice so they may have a job luring the passengers to the station when it does eventually open.

CIE · 13-08-2012 12:46AM

Solair wrote: »

Well, there were two reasons:

The fact that those lines needed major refurbishment

Would this "major refurbishment" have to do with the GSR deferring maintenance due to preferential treatment for other lines under their auspices? When you are the operator of all the railways that are within the Free State's boundaries, and your very creation was due to an act of government anyhow (mandating the swallowing up of 25 separate private railway companies), your agenda is going to be political rather than economic. (The GSR was into bus operations too; a conflict of interest...what a surprise. The GNR had bus and trucking divisions too.)

Solair wrote: »

Cork (and Ireland generally) wasn't very economically buoyant and West Cork tourism had yet to kick off. The decisions might have been very different had they been taken 30 years later when towns like Kinsale were buzzing with tourists and long-distance commuters were the norm

Or the politicians of the day were more interested in social engineering of a type, rather than getting the country's economy off the ground. State ownership bespeaks a certain political agenda after all.

dowlingm · 13-08-2012 02:56PM

Seannew1 wrote: »

Letting a Malahide Dart depart 5 mins before the 5.55 Pearse Dundalk service which serves Malahide is an absolute joke.......basically lets get people who live in Clontarf home before people who live in Dundalk......ridiculous

DART has Priority 1 on the Northern line. It's the decision which makes punctuality stats look better rather than provide the most rational timetable. Without a bit of triple/quad tracking between Fairview and Malahide there's not much can be done about separating slow and fast traffic.

end of the road · 13-08-2012 03:20PM

or you could have fast traffic depart before slow traffic and not have it stop at stations where the slow traffic will stop but no they won't do that as that would make sense so of course it won't happen. oh well i guess we'l have to put up with being stuck behind a dart that stops everywhere.

CIE · 13-08-2012 07:53PM

dowlingm wrote: »

DART has Priority 1 on the Northern line. It's the decision which makes punctuality stats look better rather than provide the most rational timetable. Without a bit of triple/quad tracking between Fairview and Malahide there's not much can be done about separating slow and fast traffic.

What happened to that? There was some noise about doing that in the early 2000s, but that went quiet. I suppose the mad dash for unnecessary new rolling stock trumped the outstanding need to actually upgrade the infrastructure. I do have to wonder how Howth Junction would be configured under such a plan, though.

CIE · 13-08-2012 08:08PM

end of the road wrote: »

or you could have fast traffic depart before slow traffic and not have it stop at stations where the slow traffic will stop but no they won't do that as that would make sense so of course it won't happen. oh well i guess we'l have to put up with being stuck behind a dart that stops everywhere

That kind of stuff is hard to time without cancelling some of the stopping trains; never mind the fact that platforms 5 through 7 get jammed up with commuter trains running through to Pearse instead of terminating at Connolly's platforms 1-4. There are even weekday morning trains running through from Dundalk to Bray and Maynooth to Bray; if they didn't do that run through, then perhaps there could be some express trains running right-handed into the city. With some DARTs still five minutes apart, it could be that the density of DART journeys remains too high as well. (There are even trains running from the M3 Parkway station to Pearse instead of into Docklands.)

parsi · 16-08-2012 10:16PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

You won't see trains running at close to that speed either, not now and not in the future of Irish rail sadly but that is nothing to do with government policy and all to do with C.I.E. and Irish rail policy and failure to give value for money!

Considering the vast numbers of people travelling for free I'd say they're delivering value for money to those folks.

miller50841 · 16-08-2012 11:13PM

parsi wrote: »

Considering the vast numbers of people travelling for free I'd say they're delivering value for money to those folks.

Yes but they pay the staffs wages so I have heard some say

parsi · 17-08-2012 11:09PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Yes but they pay the staffs wages so I have heard some say

Hmmmmm.... anecdotal evidence would suggest that their contribution to the public coffers is low enough. How many boards.ie traders who travel around the country pay tax on their profits - for example ?

Louise27 · 19-08-2012 12:19PM

I wonder can any of you help me on this matter. I am due to start treatment in a few weeks time in a hospital in Dublin, and my only method of trasport is by train from Cork. As it stands I need to go to Dublin 3 days a week for 5 or 6 weeks hopefully. I rang Irish rail and they can offer me a weekly (mon-fri) ticket for 5 weeks for 'about €750 euro' ('perhaps a little more' he said). As I only need to go to Dublin three days each week this would not be useful for me, not to mention the crazy cost of it. If i book in advance online I can get a somewhat cheaper ticket for 44euro return for each day. Are there any other options available to me? Can you get a discounted ticket for medical reasons or anything. I just feel this is a great amount of money for three days a week.

Thanks alot.

bk · 19-08-2012 01:02PM

Aircoach Cork to Dublin €22 return.

It is a coach bus, so not train, but is just as fast.

another option might me stay in a B&B in Dublin. Do arrangement for a reduction up front.

I know not directly answering your question, but it might help.

Louise27 · 19-08-2012 01:08PM

Thanks for your reply. I considered bus option, only discounting it becasue after a long weary day in Dublin, getting a bus at about 7 o clock in the evening doesn't sit too well with me, but perhaps I need to look at this option. B &B may be better value I will look into it. Thanks again:):)

NufcNavan · 20-08-2012 02:17AM

bk wrote: »

It is a coach bus, so not train,

Cheers for clearing that up.

bk · 20-08-2012 09:04AM

Louise27 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I considered bus option, only discounting it becasue after a long weary day in Dublin, getting a bus at about 7 o clock in the evening doesn't sit too well with me, but perhaps I need to look at this option.

Louise the bus is just as fast and as comfortable as the train. Perhaps worth trying it out the first time and seeing how it is. If it doesn't suit you then you can always take the train in future.

The Idyll Race · 20-08-2012 01:14PM

bk wrote: »

Louise the bus is just as fast and as comfortable as the train. Perhaps worth trying it out the first time and seeing how it is. If it doesn't suit you then you can always take the train in future.

Well, bk, I've taken my share of interurban buses down through the years and they would want to be like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon before I'd willingly use one again, and I also have a legroom problem due to being of normal height. You seem pretty evangelical about them, but have you ever done the stopover in Monaghan on the run to Derry or Letterkenny? Cavan is pretty tragic as well.

devnull · 20-08-2012 01:31PM

Well some of the newer vehicles in operation have just as much leg room as the train if not more in some cases to be fair, this aspect of bus travel has come a long way in the last ten years, even for someone tall and 6ft4 there is plenty of room on new modern vehicles, it's not like it ones just after the turn of the century where someone would cram in around 60+ seats on a two axle coach.

Most modern coaches have a couple of rows removed from that layout at least which gives more leg-room, for example Aircoach on some of their coaches have 44 seats on a two axle and 53 on a tri-axle, much better, the same with GoBus, Dublin Coach and CItylink and a few others, it's streets ahead of what it used to be.

dutopia · 20-08-2012 01:55PM

The price of tickets!!

It's unrealistically expensive to use the train.

I can drive in my own car to Galway and back for less than the price of a one way fare on Irish Rail.

bk · 20-08-2012 01:57PM

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Well, bk, I've taken my share of interurban buses down through the years and they would want to be like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon before I'd willingly use one again, and I also have a legroom problem due to being of normal height. You seem pretty evangelical about them, but have you ever done the stopover in Monaghan on the run to Derry or Letterkenny? Cavan is pretty tragic as well.

And I wonder if you have used any of the new modern coaches on the fast direct non-stop services to Cork, Galway or Limerick?

Yes the old buses on awful roads to the likes of Derry or Letterkenny were awful. But times changes, we now have fantastic smooth new roads between are largest cities and very nice modern coaches operating on these roads.

I had the same opinion as you until about two years ago when I took GoBus to Galway and I saw what an incredibly high level of service you could enjoy on such services.

Legroom is not an issue in most of these coaches, they actually often have more legroom then the train.

Also Louise27 is specifically asking about Cork to Dublin, not Letterkenny, etc. I have a lot of experience of this route, having used Irish Rail to Cork for the past 10 years and now Aircoach over the last 6 months. I've done detailed comparisons of these two services and I'm simply sharing my experience with Louise.

She can try the service herself once and if she finds she likes it and that it is almost as good as rail, then she can save herself hundreds of euros, well worth trying IMO.

Losty Dublin · 20-08-2012 02:17PM

dutopia wrote: »

The price of tickets!!

It's unrealistically expensive to use the train.

I can drive in my own car to Galway and back for less than the price of a one way fare on Irish Rail.

Maybe if you are using green diesel and avoiding the toll barriers, perhaps :rolleyes:

Jamie2k9 · 20-08-2012 02:31PM

So you can drive from Dublin-Galway for just €14.99 (Online fare booked 3 days ahead)

spank_inferno · 21-08-2012 09:18AM

My own local example is Wicklow-Dublin (connolly).
booking off-peak a week in advance (it won't allow to book peak travel) it comes to €16 return.

By car it takes a similar amount of time for about €10 of fuel.

I know people will say... cost of insurance/tax/vehicle.. blah blah.
I don't have to walk 20 mins to the station, I don't have to sit(stand) on a packed train being cooked.

€16 is not that bad.... its just the alternative is better value all round.

foggy_lad · 21-08-2012 09:47AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So you can drive from Dublin-Galway for just €14.99 (Online fare booked 3 days ahead)

The standard single fare is €33.50 plus the fare between Dublin CC and Heuston which is about €2, driving conservately and avoiding tolls most people can drive to Galway and back for less than €35.

Why not compare fares with other walk up fares? why keep quoting "special offer fares"? All the bus services offer very cheap walk up fares and taking your car is just as good, the cheap fares on the train require you to book online in advance which most people will not be able to do, the cheap train fares also restrict you to one particular train with strict penalties for changing to a different train.

djpbarry · 21-08-2012 10:11AM

spank_inferno wrote: »

€16 is not that bad.... its just the alternative is better value all round.

I think that's a reasonable assessment. The last two rail journeys I've done in Ireland were Dublin - Galway and Dublin - Carlow. I think the return fares (booked in advance) were about €40 and €20 respectively, which isn't bad value, especially when compared to the UK, where rail fares are absolutely extortionate.

Now, comparing those fares with buses is reasonable, but I like to work when I travel and that tends to be more difficult on buses, so I'm prepared to pay a little more so I can work in comfort. However, comparing rail fares to the cost of petrol used to do a similar journey by car is not a reasonable comparison, because it assumes that one already has access to a car.

devnull · 21-08-2012 10:14AM

Rail fares in the UK are very cheap when they are booked more than a few days in advance, but I agree the walk up fares are very expensive.

djpbarry · 21-08-2012 10:20AM

devnull wrote: »

Rail fares in the UK are very cheap when they are booked more than a few days in advance...

That really depends on when and where you are travelling. Sometimes you can get good deals, but generally, very cheap advance fares are rare and they are obviously quite restrictive.

Louise27 · 21-08-2012 11:20AM

Thanks for all the messages,the train prices are a rob and only for going online in advance and looking for cheapest fares at specific times I wouldn't even consider the train. I may try the bus I have to be in Dublin for 9am so I guess bus could be option. On a side note I was on the train last week and was so shocked so witness a man and woman who had bought their ticket at desk in station and when arrived onto train could not find seats,many had the reserved names highlighted where noone was sitting in them,for a finish the woman took one of these 'reserved seats' and had paid almost twice what I had for her ticket simply because I had booked online,which she had no access to and didn't guarantee her a seat.sorry this is off topic somewhat

spank_inferno · 21-08-2012 11:30AM

djpbarry wrote: »

However, comparing rail fares to the cost of petrol used to do a similar journey by car is not a reasonable comparison, because it assumes that one already has access to a car.

Obviously it does assume that.... because I do have a car!

I cannot compare rail travel costs to my previous life of non car ownership, what would make no sense.

Plus, seeing as most of us do have access to a car its entirely logical to comapre the two.

djpbarry · 21-08-2012 11:46AM

spank_inferno wrote: »

Plus, seeing as most of us do have access to a car its entirely logical to comapre the two.

But a lot of people don't - that often seems to be forgotten in discussions on the cost of public transport. Besides, I wouldn't be so sure that most people in Dublin have access to a car - as is often the case in cities, car ownership in Dublin is lower than in the rest of the country.

steamengine · 21-08-2012 12:29PM

According to AA stats on the total cost of motoring, as gleaned from their website, the minimum figure quoted is 58cent per kilometre. These stats put the perceived high cost of public transport into better perspective, whether it be train or bus - even walk up fares !!!

It is a bit puzzling alright, as when you own a car you just factor in fuel costs and that's it. Nevertheless, the true cost of motoring is as above. Logic can be difficult to understand by times.

Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

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