Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

n97 mini

Losty Dublin wrote: »

and far cheaper than in the privatised UK system.

My own recent experience is the walk-up price (or "rock up" as some apparent IE employees say) is that transport in the UK is about as expensive as here, but the advance price is usually far cheaper. For example some of the airport coach services do a 99p advance fare into London. That's even cheaper than the 16A.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Tourists tend to plan out a route of where to go so if anything they will be better prepared than asome local travelers, as LX has inferred.

Of course they have their journey planned, but that doesn't mean they've paid for it.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

Well it is until further notice rather than a fixed date.

It is their summer sale, nothing more, they did the same last year and the year before only in a different way because their booking system was different. In fact in previous years there was better value to be had as they flooded the bookings with cheaper fares on the less crowed services so you could get very cheap fares with no 3 days advance booking.

Also the web sale fares are from/to Dublin and the terminus stations only and there is no reduction for travelling to places like Carlow/Waterford and Mullingar/Sligo.

devnull

UK fares can be much more expensive than Irish rail for walk up fares on long distances, especially during peak times where they can be very high.

However the advance tickets are without doubt very good value and cheaper than the advance purchase tickets in Ireland.

goingnowhere

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is their summer sale, nothing more, they did the same last year and the year before only in a different way because their booking system was different. In fact in previous years there was better value to be had as they flooded the bookings with cheaper fares on the less crowed services so you could get very cheap fares with no 3 days advance booking.

Also the web sale fares are from/to Dublin and the terminus stations only and there is no reduction for travelling to places like Carlow/Waterford and Mullingar/Sligo.

Wrong as always, discounted fare is available between any two stations on all radial routes where the offer fare is less than cash fare

Dublin Thurles is 14.99 for example

gawker

The deals at the moment are good in fairness. Just booked Heuston-Killarney return for 40 euro. Can't complain about that. It's fares on the day that can be heartbreaking.

foggy_lad

goingnowhere wrote: »

Wrong as always, discounted fare is available between any two stations on all radial routes where the offer fare is less than cash fare

Dublin Thurles is 14.99 for example

So those in places as far away from Dublin as Mullingar Carlow etc are not allowed any benefit from the sale, and Dublin to Ballybrophy costs €21.99 while going further to Castleconnell costs €14.99.

The same old crooked system as before just tarted up in different colours!

goingnowhere

foggy_lad wrote: »

goingnowhere wrote: »

Wrong as always, discounted fare is available between any two stations on all radial routes where the offer fare is less than cash fare

Dublin Thurles is 14.99 for example

So those in places as far away from Dublin as Mullingar Carlow etc are not allowed any benefit from the sale, and Dublin to Ballybrophy costs €21.99 while going further to Castleconnell costs €14.99.

The same old crooked system as before just tarted up in different colours!

I get 14.99 for Dublin Ballybrophy for more than 3 days advance

So busted again

yer man!

Seeing as this is a commuting and transport forum, do you not think there is perhaps a little bit of bias towards checking train tickets before you go somewhere on holidays? The people in this forum are not a true representation of the majority of tourists.... Think about it, if your mother was on holidays lets say Rome and decided she wanted to go somewhere, lets say Florence for the day, is she gonna book her train ticket weeks before the holiday, I would seriously think not, most/majority (we are not most/majority) tourists buy their tickets on the day.

n97 mini

devnull wrote: »

However the advance tickets are without doubt very good value and cheaper than the advance purchase tickets in Ireland.

Absolutely. Just for example in a month from now for two ~40 mile rail journeys.
London Victoria to Horsham: £5
Dublin Heuston to Portarlington: €15 + fees

foggy_lad

goingnowhere wrote: »

I get 14.99 for Dublin Ballybrophy for more than 3 days advance

So busted again

Busted is right! I was talking about tomorrow's fares and Dublin-Ballybrophy costing €21.99 each way or €35 return while the journey to Castleconnell will cost €14.99 each way and €30 return!

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

What is inconvenient about walking from the train to the front of Heuston Station?

Dragging a very heavy bag off the train, walk a distance and drag the bag on a bus/taxi. Versus having the aircoach drop you right at the door of departures at Dublin airport.

Just a month ago my mother was flying out of Dublin. Despite have a free travel pass she opted to pay for the Aircoach as it was much more convenient for her and she was VERY happy with the service.

Not easy for an elderly person to drag bags on and off trains. The aircoach driver helped her load and unload her bag at both ends.

lxflyer wrote: »

It is freely available on every train and every seat is priced the same, provided people book 3 days in advance.

It is a limited time special offer, that can be ended by Irish Rail at any time.

And lets be honest, this new special offer only came into existence one week after Aircoach launched their Cork service. If we didn't have Aircoach I'm not sure we would still have this special deal.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The person who posted was comparing Aircoach to Irish Rail and a trip to the airport - that's precisely why I asked how far in advance they booked their plane, if they booked their plane fare on the day the cost of the train would be the least of their worries.

I'm in Poland at the moment. I bought my ticket Wednesday and my flight was Thursday morning.

BTW I use to travel between Cork and Dublin by rail for ten years and I only ever booked in advance about 4 times. I never really knew when I'd be travelling down, it depended on what was going on in Cork or Dublin, friends and family, etc.

Plus up to two years ago, there was no reduced fares for online booking. And when it was introduced it was almost impossible to get the cheap fares unless you booked almost a month in advance and then at silly off peak times.

Rail fans seem to be conveniently forgetting that the current special offer only started about 4 months ago.

LXFlyer

So every traveller has a VERY heavy bag do they, and are elderly?

As for the web sale, as I pointed out to you at the time on several occasions, but you decided to ignore the point, it had far more to do with a new Commercial Director having been appointed about two months previously from outside IE.

If you seriously think the entire booking system could have been rejigged in a week, including a full assessment of the revenue implications of the changes in a response to Aircoach starting then I think you're somewhat deluded.

I really couldn't care less what systems were there in the past. They're history. The only appropriate discussion now is using the current fare structure.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

So every traveller has a VERY heavy bag do they, and are elderly?

Whatever way you like to paint it, Aircoach to Dublin Airport is still faster, cheaper and more convenient then Irish Rail.

lxflyer wrote: »

If you seriously think the entire booking system could have been rejigged in a week, including a full assessment of the revenue implications of the changes in a response to Aircoach starting then I think you're somewhat deluded.

They had two months as the listings for the license for Aircoach and GoBus had been listed publicly two months prior to the launch of the service.

Plenty of time to rejig the booking system in preparation and then wait and see if Aircoach/GoBus launch and what sort of service before pulling the trigger on introducing this new web fare. Which they did one week after Aircoach launched.

The reality is neither of us know the truth and we will never know.

And really who cares less about some new Commercial director dude? IR wouldn't have bothered to bring him in if they didn't face all this new competition.

Are you seriously saying Irish Rail would still have offered this half price deal if they never faced the competition from the motorways and coaches?

Utter bull.

All I can say is Aircoach is the best thing to ever happen to public transport to Cork. We now have a cheap, fast, frequent service to Cork with a very wide schedule, including late night services, something no CIE company ever bothered to offer between our two largest cities!!

And now it is even having a positive effect on Irish Rail, forcing them to reduce prices and speed up the schedule. As a commuter all I can say is fantastic.

steamengine

Irish Rail have two ads on the DART at present, one advertising a DART family day rambler ticket for €10 - 2 adults and up to 4 kids. Also I noticed Dublin - Cork advertised for €20 - 3 days plus prior booking required. InterCity trains are way more spacious and comfortable than any bus, always have been and hopefully will continue to be.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

Whatever way you like to paint it, Aircoach to Dublin Airport is still faster, cheaper and more convenient then Irish Rail.


Of course it is seeing that the train doesnt go to the Airport.

I havent used Aircoach but it looks like a good addition to commuting market.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Whatever way you like to paint it, Aircoach to Dublin Airport is still faster, cheaper and more convenient then Irish Rail.

I never said it wasn't. I just questioned your use of the word "inconvenient" about a 5 minute walk from the train to the 747. It is of course less convenient, but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill for the vast majority of people by stating it's inconvenient. Most people would view a direct connection from a railway station to an airport as a very welcome facility. What about passengers from all the other stations on the route (whom you seem to be happy to ignore all the time by focussing solely on end-to-end travel)?

bk wrote: »

They had two months as the listings for the license for Aircoach and GoBus had been listed publicly two months prior to the launch of the service.

Plenty of time to rejig the booking system in preparation and then wait and see if Aircoach/GoBus launch and what sort of service before pulling the trigger on introducing this new web fare. Which they did one week after Aircoach launched.

The reality is neither of us know the truth and we will never know.

And really who cares less about some new Commercial director dude? IR wouldn't have bothered to bring him in if they didn't face all this new competition.

Are you seriously saying Irish Rail would still have offered this half price deal if they never faced the competition from the motorways and coaches?

Utter bull.

All I can say is Aircoach is the best thing to ever happen to public transport to Cork. We now have a cheap, fast, frequent service to Cork with a very wide schedule, including late night services, something no CIE company ever bothered to offer between our two largest cities!!

And now it is even having a positive effect on Irish Rail, forcing them to reduce prices and speed up the schedule. As a commuter all I can say is fantastic.

I would say that the appointment of the Commercial Director was of course a response to the coach operators - but not on the Cork route. I would say it had everything to do with the Galway route.

Your analysis of IE management approach is far too simplistic. If you seriously believe the entire recast of the fares system was to do with Aircoach then frankly you haven't got a clue.

It would have everything to do with a response to the Galway route issues. IE have never been that responsive to market moves and to suggest it was a response to Aircoach frankly is naive in the extreme.

The decision to appoint a Commercial Director with private sector experience would have been made well before Aircoach/Gobus licences on the Cork route became public knowledge. However you may wish to belittle that decision, it is a totally new strategy for IE and is in my opinion one of the biggest game changing moves in that company in years. Finally they have appointed someone with commercial experience of working in the real world to a significant position rather than internal railway personnel.

I don't disagree that Aircoach arriving on the scene is good news - of course it is - and I've said so before on numerous occasions, but it's not the reason behind all of the changes within IE heretofore however much you want to bleat on and on about it.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

I never said it wasn't. I just questioned your use of the word "inconvenient" about a 5 minute walk from the train to the 747.

747 runs every 15 mins. Law of averages dictates that you will have a 7.5 min wait, but maybe more, maybe less, after your 5 minute walk up from the train.

LXFlyer

You are still both making a mountain out of a molehill in the context of a journey from one side of the country to another.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

You are still both making a mountain out of a molehill in the context of a journey from one side of the country to another.

That's your opinion. A lot of people would see a potential 20 minute wait an inconvenience versus no wait at all.

Solair

n97 mini wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

You are still both making a mountain out of a molehill in the context of a journey from one side of the country to another.

That's your opinion. A lot of people would see a potential 20 minute wait an inconvenience versus no wait at all.

Cost : Benefit analysis for this leans heavily on the side of cost tbh.

bk

Oh I dont think it was just Aircoach on the Cork route. I agree that they saw the devastating effect GoBus/Citylink had on the Galway route and feared what would happen on the Limerick and Cork routes when similar services started.

In particular the Cork route which is their most important intercity route carrying by far the majority of intercity passengers.

I've done the analysis and I found that if the same modal shift to coach happens in Cork that happened in Galway, IR would see a 40% drop in intercity passenger numbers!!

So yes this new commercial director isn't here just because of Aircoach, but rather the competition of bus coach on all routes, but most importantly the Cork route.

People choose based on speed, cost and convenience. To Dublin airport Aircoach wins by a mile on all three.

Sponge Bob

lxflyer wrote: »

I would say that the appointment of the Commercial Director was of course a response to the coach operators - but not on the Cork route. I would say it had everything to do with the Galway route.

<snip>

The decision to appoint a Commercial Director with private sector experience would have been made well before Aircoach/Gobus licences on the Cork route became public knowledge. However you may wish to belittle that decision, it is a totally new strategy for IE and is in my opinion one of the biggest game changing moves in that company in years. Finally they have appointed someone with commercial experience of working in the real world to a significant position rather than internal railway personnel.

But IE surely should have known they needed a 'commericial' type at least 4 years ago. It is far too late now. See this from 2008.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57243855&postcount=6

The Galway - Dublin train will be no faster than it was in 1968 or even possibly 1948 ( well over 2 hours) while a car will do it in less than 2 hours outside the rush hour ...by 2010.

The move will more likely be to EXPRESS buses at the expense of rail post 2010 .

The Motorways will simply murder Iarnród Éireann I fear . A fully functioning interconnector is at least 10 years away seeing as Iarnród Éireann only propose to build part of it ( the underground bit in Dublin ) for starters .

CIE

How is it that IE and BE have yet conspired to move Ireland's public transportation back to the 60s? You aren't going to have any 200-km/h express buses, certainly not operating safely anywhere. (And why did anyone think that the Interconnector DART Underground would result in faster intercity passenger rail?)

foggy_lad

CIE wrote: »

How is it that IE and BE have yet conspired to move Ireland's public transportation back to the 60s? You aren't going to have any 200-km/h express buses, certainly not operating safely anywhere. (And why did anyone think that the Interconnector DART Underground would result in faster intercity passenger rail?)

Bus eireann have moved with the times as much as they are allowed by the nta and have competed with Irish fail on every route except the flagship cort line but Irish rail have consistently failed miserably on just about every intercity route and people instead of blaming the company are saying it is a CIE conspiracy??

CIE

foggy_lad wrote: »

Bus eireann have moved with the times as much as they are allowed by the nta and have competed with Irish fail on every route except the flagship cort line but Irish rail have consistently failed miserably on just about every intercity route and people instead of blaming the company are saying it is a CIE conspiracy??

Conspiracy? Not so hard to believe. After all, CIE owns both BE and IE, and the state owns CIE. That creates a conflict of interest; a company cannot compete against itself by definition, and state-owned concerns do not compete, full stop—they control. The West Cork lines were closed due to so-called "bus competition" after all (that was the major excuse back then). Funny how people don't recognise the same trick that was played on them a half-century ago, and fall for it like they were born yesterday. Welcome to Airstrip Two... :mad:

end of the road

CIE wrote: »

The West Cork lines were closed due to so-called "bus competition" after all (that was the major excuse back then).

and i wonder how much of that (bus competition) that replaced the closed railways survives?

CIE wrote: »

Funny how people don't recognise the same trick that was played on them a half-century ago, and fall for it like they were born yesterday.

well thats foggy lad for you, he seems to believe that closing more railways will solve CIE'S problems and will make some rail routes (proffitable) meh. it didn't in the 60s and 70s, and it won't now. just look at what we got for those closures, it may as well have been nothing. the railways are still as slow if not slower then when all the closures took place, trains that can't even reach their full potential, a company who throws away rolling stock when their board of it, a company who allowed alsthom to provide them with inferior dart units and get away with it, certain rail routes which should be getting more services can't, others which might have been viable are being bastardised into oblivian. so yeah bring on the closures i say, by the time were finished we'l have nothing left. but never mind, it will make some rail routes (proffitable) the irish railway won't have a chance at possibly being proffitable without investment to bring it up to a standard which will attract customers to it and back to it, of course thats not going to happen now, and even if it did theirs no guarintee it ever be proffitable, is their anything state run that does make a proffit?

corktina

i have always believed the West Cork lines closed because of the major cost of renewals required.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

i have always believed the West Cork lines closed because of the major cost of renewals required.

thats the thing corktina, i don't think anyone knows for sure apart from those in CIE at the time. if only their was some way of getting official documents to do with it and other closed lines. maybe one day.

Solair

corktina wrote: »

i have always believed the West Cork lines closed because of the major cost of renewals required.

Well, there were two reasons:

1) The fact that those lines needed major refurbishment.
2) Cork (and Ireland generally) wasn't very economically buoyant and West Cork tourism had yet to kick-off. The decisions might have been very different had they been taken 30 years later when towns like Kinsale were buzzing with tourists and long-distance commuters were the norm.

Seannew1

Letting a Malahide Dart depart 5 mins before the 5.55 Pearse Dundalk service which serves Malahide is an absolute joke.......basically lets get people who live in Clontarf home before people who live in Dundalk......ridiculous