Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

dowlingm

brokenarms wrote: »

I was at Malihide station a few weeks ago, late and seen 3 big transits vans parked outside the station.

Full of men sound asleep. Every van.

I wonder if they where supposed to be working?

knock on the window and ask?

RonanM123

people love to compare IE to Ryanair but if MOL was running IE he'd be the first to say "should have reserved your seat"

Why reserve a seat when its not guaranteed?

If MOL was in charge of IE I would be delighted as he would have all OAP either pay full fare or don't travel with him, the company would be profitable and not increasing losses every year and have the correct number of staff instead of being overstaffed. IE needs a ryanair style business plan fast to turn the company around as its next to impossible to do it currently.

Jhcx

U know they can throw every gadget under the sun at u. But its how quick can u get home. From Dublin to Ennis its just a fair crap journey having to change at limerick junction and then at limerick and because ir are just horrible they actually send the train going to Ennis 9 minutes before the limerick junction train arrives in limerick making u have to get the bus which is leaving other wise u can wait an hour and a half to get the next train. But that's just my opinion I hate them that's why it pays to travel by car. Faster no mess no fuss no waiting no standing, stop when u want go as fast as u want within the limit. And no body gets stressed out. Plus u can always install ur own portable WiFi

gsxr1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How do you know that they multiply?

Fair enough that you have an issue with IR but at least come up with something more valid to bump a thread.

I was listening to the and an Irishrail spokesman came on . Causally trying to explain the price hikes and reduction in services. While all the way Matt Coper is baffled why they would raise prices when they are trying to promote rail travel.
It made me angry. Seeing the waste and money spent first hand on things like company vans, allowances unused lines. ect..... Costing millions. Men hardly touched by recession .
Its fecking madness. Someone needs to take the whole railway over to turn it around. Run it like a bushiness I am convinced the people doing it now are not capable.

Its not getting any better with time. They are failing to get customers back.
That is worth bumping IMO.

Losty Dublin

gsxr1 wrote: »

I was listening to the and an Irishrail spokesman came on . Causally trying to explain the price hikes and reduction in services. While all the way Matt Coper is baffled why they would raise prices when they are trying to promote rail travel.

Think about this one long and hard.

Cut your prices you say. Do you get more people in and increase your income or will your already busy services (Rush hour Darts/Commuter services, say or the 17:00 and 18:00 Dublin-Cork or trains tomorrow from Galway and Kilkenny) drop income because passengers you already know are there pay less? Or do you cut them early in the day, half fill the mid morning trains and end up with a more consistent flow who pay less overall? Do you think those using buses or cars will move to train on this basis, do they use off peak services, if they can, or will they turn up at peak hours and reject it if they think it's busy?

There isn't a clear cut answer here but when income is down there are only ever three options you can look at. You can either try to bring in new business or more business from your old customer base (Which they barely do, to be honest), you can cut your cost base to save running costs (Which they do), you raise your prices (which they do) or you can mix a combination of two or all three together. In the case of new customers they can't fill already full trains so the focus goes towards off peak services. Subvention is down plus white elephant services such as the WRC, M3 and Rosslare cost money that's ill affordable to the company. Staff numbers are always being cut while outsourcing is the done thing for all manner of services within the company, rarely at management level it must be said.

The main mitigating factor is that the company is run for and on behalf of the State and it has many constraints, legal implications to fulfill, vested and unvested interests and some underhanded puppeteering at play which private companies don't have to deal with. Many changes that need to be done can't be done easily while others just can't be done at all. It's not as easy as it looks to us all.

Judgement Day

FYP

Hilly Bill

gsxr1 wrote: »

I was listening to the and an Irishrail spokesman came on . Causally trying to explain the price hikes and reduction in services. While all the way Matt Coper is baffled why they would raise prices when they are trying to promote rail travel.
It made me angry. Seeing the waste and money spent first hand on things like company vans, allowances unused lines. ect..... Costing millions. Men hardly touched by recession .
Its fecking madness. Someone needs to take the whole railway over to turn it around. Run it like a bushiness I am convinced the people doing it now are not capable.

Its not getting any better with time. They are failing to get customers back.
That is worth bumping IMO.

Care to expand on the bit in bold? How come you had nothing to say when you were working as a contractor on the projects but have plenty to say now that the work dried up for your company on them projects?
Prices and train cuts then fair enough but the rest you know nothing or little about.

end of the road

RonanM123 wrote: »

If MOL was in charge of IE I would be delighted as he would have all OAP either pay full fare or don't travel with him

only if he was allowed to which i suspect not. he can run ryan air whatever way he likes but if he came to IE their probably would be some constraints for him, he won't be coming to run irish rail anyway.

RonanM123 wrote: »

the company would be profitable and not increasing losses every year and have the correct number of staff instead of being overstaffed.

you hope. i don't think any semi state company can be profitable, as for staff just because MOL may say he needs a certain amount of staff doesn't mean that its the actual number of staff that a railway might require, the company could end up under staffed not intentionally but it could happen.

RonanM123 wrote: »

IE needs a ryanair style business plan fast to turn the company around as its next to impossible to do it currently.

if implemented properly their are probably some ideas from ryan air which could be implemented. but one should be careful what one wishes for, running IE like ryan air right down to the last detail could make things worse, do remember irish rail have a menopally on our railways, whereas their are other operators using our airports.

end of the road

Losty Dublin wrote: »

white elephant services such as the WRC, M3 and Rosslare

and who's fault is it that their white elephant services? in the case of m3 CIE/IE and meath county council for not protecting the alignment to navan and for not extending the line their instead of m3. as for rosslare, well what do you expect when you were being provided with a rubbish service for years while every other service was prioritised over it, even lesser used services, and even still to this day the WRC has more services, then on top of that being saddled with commuter rail cars in the hope they could drive everyone away so they could shut and lift the line but thankfully they failed for now, people had enough and left because they were sick of the rubbish treatment by IE as part of their vendetta against the line, i hope that IE are never allowed to close the line and it drags them down to the point where they have to be got rid of and replaced or reformed severely.

dublinman1990

I was heading home on the Dart sometime last week by getting on Tara Street.

It headed into Pearse Street as it normally would, collecting passengers from the station on my side going to Bray. It was just around after 8pm when it arrived. But, the life of going on a train didn't go quite as planned for one young man.

The man in question was followed by a member of staff from IE. He didn't happen to be a scumbag or anything; he was a clean guy with a middle class accent. By my look of him, he sounded and dressed casually rather well. He was followed by the IE staff member after jumping over the barriers at Pearse. He had the valid ticket for going through the barriers.

However; his point was that while he admitting jumped over the barriers, they were not working at all. There was an absence (his words, not mine) of IE personnel opening the barriers for him while he was on the platform. It meant he could have been stuck for ages trying to get through the barriers with no one to help him at all.

The IE employee wasn't helpful either as this man went on the train to explain his case. The IE man had said to all the passengers including myself that the train will be delayed for a few minutes while asking the bloke to get off it. Another IE staff at Pearse than arrived after him to see what was going on.

He demanded the IE employee to show Photo I.D. a few times before he got off the train. The IE employee said he will show his I.D. once the bloke gets off the train and let it continue. He then said IE was a dreadful service. He said he was going to make a complaint to IE several times, if it continued not to be in his favour.

He also made a joke of the guy's uniform saying it could have been 'bought in a shop somewhere'.

Is there a case where IE was at a lot of fault because of what the man did in the circumstances. As soon as the three guys got off the train and when it left Pearse, the 1st IE staff member really went into your man's face with a lot of aggression shown towards the fellow.

At that point I don't think that situation could have been fair to an unsuspecting member of the public in light of what happened.

Hilly Bill

Did you get off the train with the man at Pearse ? if not then how do you know what happened after the train moved off? How did you know that he had a valid ticket?

If the chap had a valid ticket then he would have used it in the barrier and the barrier would open if the ticket was from pearse. If it was from a different station then the barrier wont open and it will look like it didnt work. If the barrier was unmanned then one of the barriers would have been left open .

Personally i think the chap was acting the maggot from what you have posted.

Jamie2k9

I don't see a issue here if you jump a barrier (even with a valid ticket) what do you expect. I find it hard to beleave no barriers were working...

Judgement Day

I can't comment on this particular case but it has - to me - been noticeable that CIE/IE have always manned ticket barriers and ticket offices in the Dublin area with some of the most ignorant, unhelpful staff available. Whether this is as a result of years of having to deal with bolshie, rude customers or that they were ignorant gob****es at the outset is a mystery.

dublinman1990

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Did you get off the train with the man at Pearse ? if not then how do you know what happened after the train moved off? How did you know that he had a valid ticket?

If the chap had a valid ticket then he would have used it in the barrier and the barrier would open if the ticket was from pearse. If it was from a different station then the barrier wont open and it will look like it didnt work. If the barrier was unmanned then one of the barriers would have been left open .

Personally i think the chap was acting the maggot from what you have posted.

He explained to the staff members that he had tried to put in the ticket when he attempting to go through the barriers. I think he said that he apparently waiting for around 10 to 15 minutes to get through them.

While he came on the train he was asked by the IE man to refrain from boarding the train before he showed his ticket. He refused and proceeded to board the train regardless and held it up for a few minutes. He had then showed the ticket to the staff member while he was on the train.

This guy was aged probably aged in his 30's. There was a number of young lads who were half his age laughing at him thinking it was a joke.

I was heading home from Tara Street to Blackrock when it happened.

Hilly Bill

Still sounds like a spoofer. Was he the only one that wanted to go through the barriers at that time? Doubt it.

Hilly Bill

Judgement Day wrote: »

I can't comment on this particular case but it has - to me - been noticeable that CIE/IE have always manned ticket barriers and ticket offices in the Dublin area with some of the most ignorant, unhelpful staff available. Whether this is as a result of years of having to deal with bolshie, rude customers or that they were ignorant gob****es at the outset is a mystery.

Maybe you just have to be nicer to them JD .

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Judgement Day wrote: »

I can't comment on this particular case but it has - to me - been noticeable that CIE/IE have always manned ticket barriers and ticket offices in the Dublin area with some of the most ignorant, unhelpful staff available. Whether this is as a result of years of having to deal with bolshie, rude customers or that they were ignorant gob****es at the outset is a mystery.

Maybe you just have to be nicer to them JD .

Or just report them and maybe one day when Irish rail becomes a real railway operation and not some old boys club people like this will be kept away from the customers! Sounds like the staff member had a power trip.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Or just report them and maybe one day when Irish rail becomes a real railway operation and not some old boys club people like this will be kept away from the customers! Sounds like the staff member had a power trip.

Old boys club?

Report anyone being rude or abusive? yes

Staff member challenging a barrier jumper would only be doing his or her job and not on a power trip.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Old boys club?

Report anyone being rude or abusive? yes

Staff member challenging a barrier jumper would only be doing his or her job and not on a power trip.

Except where the barrier jumper has apparently shown a valid ticket but this is not good enough for staff who basically prevent the person from travelling?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Except where the barrier jumper has apparently shown a valid ticket but this is not good enough for staff who basically prevent the person from travelling?

" he was asked by the IE man to refrain from boarding the train before he showed his ticket. He refused and proceeded to board the train "

Going by whats posted, the chap jumped the barrier and then refused to show his ticket when asked. Was the big bad IR staff in the wrong for asking to see his ticket?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

" he was asked by the IE man to refrain from boarding the train before he showed his ticket. He refused and proceeded to board the train "

Going by whats posted, the chap jumped the barrier and then refused to show his ticket when asked. Was the big bad IR staff in the wrong for asking to see his ticket?

It is of course possible that there was some issue with the barriers and from experience at Pearce station there is not always someone on hand to open barriers when they fail, there is also a possibility there was something amiss with the persons ticket like if he attempted to use a return ticket for two journeys in the same direction, but going on how RPU staff in particular are with passengers I would say it was an Irish rail staff power trip.

CIE

foggy_lad wrote: »

Except where the barrier jumper has apparently shown a valid ticket but this is not good enough for staff who basically prevent the person from travelling?

He could show an annual pass, but he is a barrier jumper. IE are not obliged to provide transportation, especially to someone who doesn't respect their boundaries or property, and can refuse it to anyone.

Losty Dublin

dublinman1990 wrote: »

He explained to the staff members that he had tried to put in the ticket when he attempting to go through the barriers. I think he said that he apparently waiting for around 10 to 15 minutes to get through them.

When a train is coming in, some staff will man the platform to ensure people get on and off safely. While there may be times when the barrier is unmanned, this is going to be perhaps 2-3 minutes but certainly not 10-15 minutes of a wait. If he going to be taking the mickey with antics like this he can expect hassle; his reactions didn't help his case one little bit if he said and did what you saw.

Incidentally, if he was waiting that long there was nothing to stop him using the barrier/kiosk on the other side of the station; these are manned as well.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is of course possible that there was some issue with the barriers and from experience at Pearce station there is not always someone on hand to open barriers when they fail, there is also a possibility there was something amiss with the persons ticket like if he attempted to use a return ticket for two journeys in the same direction, but going on how RPU staff in particular are with passengers I would say it was an Irish rail staff power trip.

In a busy station like Pearse, do you think that he was the only person that wanted to go through the barriers at that time? i doubt it very much. A valid ticket would open the barrier an invalid one wouldnt. If the barrier wasnt attended at the time then one would have been left open. If he had a valid ticket then all he had to do was show it when asked and he would have been allowed to carry on and just told not to be jumping the barriers.

Since you like possibilities and what if's, what if you were on that train and the chap had jumped the barrier and IR staff had failed to stop him and after the train moved on he punched you in the face ,would you blame IR staff for not stopping him and allowing him to board the train after jumping the barrier?
Im sure you would. If you had seen the chap jump the barrier and IR staff not doing anything about it then you would have an issue with that so they cant really win with you can they Foggy.
Just because you have an issue with them Foggy it doesnt mean they are on a power trip when they are only doing their job.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In a busy station like Pearse, do you think that he was the only person that wanted to go through the barriers at that time? i doubt it very much. A valid ticket would open the barrier an invalid one wouldnt. If the barrier wasnt attended at the time then one would have been left open. If he had a valid ticket then all he had to do was show it when asked and he would have been allowed to carry on and just told not to be jumping the barriers.

A valid ticket only opens barriers that are working and Irish rail barriers are usually left open in most stations because they break down so often!

The barrier would have been left open if a member of staff had been made aware they were not working and sought permission from superiors to open the barriers and check tickets manually. I have passed through unattended barriers in pearse station where none have been left open.

It is really sad to see that even in the dying days of Irish rail the company and staff still have this anti-customer ethos and operate as if we are just a nuisance.

Hilly Bill

If only you knew what you are talking about then maybe you could be taken seriously, but as usual you come up with just about anything you can make up just to have a go at big bad Irish Rail.

road_high

I note the KK hurling team are not using the train for homecoming from Dublin this year. Yet another switch from rail to the new motorway.

mickydoomsux

mfitzy wrote: »

I note the KK hurling team are not using the train for homecoming from Dublin this year. Yet another switch from rail to the new motorway.

It was actually a health and safety issue. It's goddamn bedlam and far too dangerous to have hundreds if not thousands of people standing on the platform waiting for the train to come into Kilkenny.

Dravokivich

foggy_lad wrote: »

A valid ticket only opens barriers that are working and Irish rail barriers are usually left open in most stations because they break down so often!

Actually just in regards to this comment. They have to leave the gates open when the ticket offices are closed. I think it's to rule out any liability on Irish Rails part so that in the case of an emergency, they weren't preventing people from leaving the station in the event they fail, as there'd be no-one avail to switch'em off.

end of the road

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It was actually a health and safety issue.

H&s as usual. i'm tellin ya now, all this H&S will ruin this country, ruin it i tells yis.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It's goddamn bedlam and far too dangerous to have hundreds if not thousands of people standing on the platform waiting for the train to come into Kilkenny.

well it was good enough before wasn't it.