Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

premierstone · 26-07-2012 12:45pm

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

good point ,its like someone saying he wins dirty ball ,what the fcuk is dirty ball

Would have thought it was obvious, and there are many good examples of players who win dirty ball, Bonner Maher, Prendergast, Ryan O'Dwyer, Cyrill Donellan are all perfect examples of it, guys that wouldn't win it in a month of Sundays would be the likes of Pa Bourke, Seamus Callinan, Paul Ryan, Cathal Naughton etc.

Its ball thats not won cleanly and direct, but has to fought for in the trenches. Actually Bonner Maher really is the ultimate example of it, not the most skillfull but the heart and fight of a lion.

noiniho · 26-07-2012 1:25pm

Does anyone know if there is WIFI in Semple and the password, would like to listen to Newstalks build-up and match commentary

Psychedelic · 26-07-2012 1:28pm

noiniho wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is WIFI in Semple and the password, would like to listen to Newstalks build-up and match commentary

You could just use the radio on your phone? (I assume most phones these days have built-in radio)

Mountainlad · 26-07-2012 1:28pm

redlead wrote: »

I agree 100% with all of the above. I'm of the view that Jamie Barron is the youngster with the biggest potential for us but I don't think he should really be expected to be playing intercounty for another couple of years. We are throwing lads in way too early lately. GOB is just having his confidence destroyed lately and Brian O Halloran has become a forgotten man.

Can't for the life of me understand why Madigan isn't being played in the forwards either.

The same reason Jamie Barron played in the backs the last day, they felt they had a better forward line than they actually had, and recognized that there were some gaps in the defence that needed filling. First time I saw Madigan was at wing back for the minors, they're slow to change these things on the underage teams with Waterford. Are you saying Madigan should have been looked at for the Senior team? He's only a year older than O'Brien and Barron.

I dunno that we are throwing players in to young, nor am I so certain that Gavin O'Brien's confidence is ruined. It's gonna take him a while to get to grips with Senior level because he doesn't have any outstanding physical attributes, his game is his skill. Other players adapt quicker because they're stronger and faster i.e. Darragh Fives. Not every player should be painted with the same brush, look at the impact some of the lads had when they came in as teenagers. Great players no doubt, but rather than be so protective of the lads we have, trusting their abilities might be a better idea.

It would make no sense at this stage to be firing Jamie Barron into a starting role for the Seniors, and lets be under no illusions here it simply won't happen. If he plays well enough in training, however, we may see him make an appearance at some stage.

noiniho · 26-07-2012 2:16pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

You could just use the radio on your phone? (I assume most phones these days have built-in radio)

Iphone works by streaming the radio over the internet, if there is wifi there and can stream it for free and not use up a months worth of data on my plan

redlead · 26-07-2012 2:48pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

The same reason Jamie Barron played in the backs the last day, they felt they had a better forward line than they actually had, and recognized that there were some gaps in the defence that needed filling. First time I saw Madigan was at wing back for the minors, they're slow to change these things on the underage teams with Waterford. Are you saying Madigan should have been looked at for the Senior team? He's only a year older than O'Brien and Barron.

I dunno that we are throwing players in to young, nor am I so certain that Gavin O'Brien's confidence is ruined. It's gonna take him a while to get to grips with Senior level because he doesn't have any outstanding physical attributes, his game is his skill. Other players adapt quicker because they're stronger and faster i.e. Darragh Fives. Not every player should be painted with the same brush, look at the impact some of the lads had when they came in as teenagers. Great players no doubt, but rather than be so protective of the lads we have, trusting their abilities might be a better idea.

It would make no sense at this stage to be firing Jamie Barron into a starting role for the Seniors, and lets be under no illusions here it simply won't happen. If he plays well enough in training, however, we may see him make an appearance at some stage.

No I'm not suggesting Madigan should be on the senior team. I was referring to DLS.

I don't think GOBs confidence is destroyed but it is in the process of being destroyed. He is way too light for senior intercounty hurling and isn't getting a look in. Martin O'Neill is a better option at the moment imo due to his superior physicality.

Mountainlad · 26-07-2012 3:13pm

redlead wrote: »

No I'm not suggesting Madigan should be on the senior team. I was referring to DLS.

I don't think GOBs confidence is destroyed but it is in the process of being destroyed. He is way too light for senior intercounty hurling and isn't getting a look in. Martin O'Neill is a better option at the moment imo due to his superior physicality.

Jack Kennedy, and the fact that a couple of DLS backs have emigrated (not sure who but I suspect Michael Doherty being one) is the reason he has been relocated. When he does play with the Waterford Senior team I'd like to see him as a forward, and I felt that he should have gotten a look in at the start of the league when we were desperately short of players.

Possibly, but I think long term there's no question who'll flourish better in my opinion. Persistence with O'Brien is understandable though I can also understand change at this stage. Tommy Ryan is probably a better option off the bench, so Martin O'Neill would be my preference if he is dropped. As long as Kelly gets nowhere near it I won't be too disappointed.

hardybuck · 26-07-2012 3:24pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

The same reason Jamie Barron played in the backs the last day, they felt they had a better forward line than they actually had, and recognized that there were some gaps in the defence that needed filling. First time I saw Madigan was at wing back for the minors, they're slow to change these things on the underage teams with Waterford. Are you saying Madigan should have been looked at for the Senior team? He's only a year older than O'Brien and Barron.

I dunno that we are throwing players in to young, nor am I so certain that Gavin O'Brien's confidence is ruined. It's gonna take him a while to get to grips with Senior level because he doesn't have any outstanding physical attributes, his game is his skill. Other players adapt quicker because they're stronger and faster i.e. Darragh Fives. Not every player should be painted with the same brush, look at the impact some of the lads had when they came in as teenagers. Great players no doubt, but rather than be so protective of the lads we have, trusting their abilities might be a better idea.

It would make no sense at this stage to be firing Jamie Barron into a starting role for the Seniors, and lets be under no illusions here it simply won't happen. If he plays well enough in training, however, we may see him make an appearance at some stage.

I think he should have been brought into the squad a year or two ago. He's been built like a powerful man since about the age of 17. Instead we've had guys built like children - i.e. Thomas Ryan, and lads like Shane Casey in the squad for four years without much result.

DLS lost Doherty and Russell who both would have been corner backs. McNulty looked to be a top class centre back and they'd him in at full forward, and Madigan who looked brilliant at full forward playing wing back. Don't really understand that to be honest! McNulty scored for fun against Tallow, but that wasn't a real game.

deisebhoy17 · 26-07-2012 4:50pm

noiniho wrote: »

Iphone works by streaming the radio over the internet, if there is wifi there and can stream it for free and not use up a months worth of data on my plan

How about leave your elctro-techno junk-box at home and just enjoy the real action unfold on the field. what more entertainment do u need:P

solarith · 26-07-2012 5:04pm

noiniho wrote: »

Iphone works by streaming the radio over the internet, if there is wifi there and can stream it for free and not use up a months worth of data on my plan

It shouldn't use more than 150Mb, IMO. Could be wrong of course. If there's WiFi everyone will be on it and you won't get a suitable connection for streaming audio.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 6:56pm

premierstone wrote: »

As I have pointed out on a few other threads already, minor form from 3 years previously means nothing at u-21 level, just look at the players individually and anyone impartial could clearly see Clare had the better quality of players, the bookies didnt pluck them odds from thin air , obviously I agree on paper they are not 20 points better but imo they are superior, tbh very few outside of Waterford were giving them a chance.

Bit late replying, and wonder if there's much of a point, as we're inclined to disagree on the above. I would agree re: form though, but when I mentioned minor teams of 2/3 years ago, it would be in reference to some of the current U-21 team who were on that minor, many of the same players who are hovering around the edges of the starting 15. In any case, we can agree to disagree. I could go through the U21 starting 15 we sent out, and make a case for why I would have expected better from a team composed of promising minors, and previously promising U21's now hovering around the senior team.

Re: bookies, they may be an indication of certain things, but not much when it comes to Waterford. Senior game on Sunday against Cork, case in point, where in what to most hurling fans is a 50-50 game, the bookies clearly have Cork installed as favourites. I am long used to bookies beggaring belief when it comes to Waterford hurling, and to be honest, hurling in general. Every year, the same biases towards the 'traditional' counties in most fixtures, any county who has displayed good league form, or just Galway in general, are abundantly apparent. Add into the mix, the ludicrously long odds frequently offered on Waterford in nearly all fixtures, and you can see why I would not be relying on bookies to discern much.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 6:57pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

Well I think they do have a better forward line. Probably not by an awful lot, but they're probably better able to take their scores. Horgan has been unreal this year, I think Luke O'Farrell is an excellent finisher, Lehane is lethal, Pa Cronin drifts in and out of games but has quality. Was never pne to rate Niall McCarthy but he's taken some nice scores this year. Paudi O Sullivan is definitely incosistent but still can be dangerous.

Shane Walsh and Mullane are the two big scoring threats. Sure, Seamus brings a big aerial threat and Maurice is great to run at defences, but they're no going to get that many scores. Mahony and O'Brien as well aren't likely to score too much. If they all chipped in however, and the midfield got a score or two then between that and frees you could still put up a match winning score. Think we have a better defense than Cork. Midfield, as usual, is the key area but we've been doing well there this year.

That is very green grass on the other side, alright..

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 7:18pm

Roger Sterling wrote: »

http://www.hurlingstats.com/blog/

Some good stats here. He's apparently the most efficent scorer in the game, has the most points from play since 2004 and best average points per game since then.

And last I looked, could easily be the all time highest scorer from play, if he continues to get his 3 points from play in the championship games we play every year, and doesn't throw in the towel just yet..

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 7:25pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I think Prendergast is better at scoring than the Munster Final suggested, but not that many half forwards run up big scores anyway. If he win ball and doesn't let there centre back win clean ball then his job is done. Think Maurice is important too. While not noted for his speed, he created gaps in the Tipp defence the last day. His finishing product wasn't great, but that could easily change and he's well capable of burying a ball in the back of the net.

I'd agree about Shane Walsh, he's very important. Think he couldn't handle the pitch the last day, lost his footing a lot, but when he got the ball in space his point scoring is lethal, and of course he's excellent in the air. Big test for Cahalane.

In fairness to Seamus, he can't hit the broad side of a barn these days, and hasn't been able to deliver anything like a reasonable shot conversion ratio in a long time. All other aspects of his game great or improving, and to be fair, felt he was probably forced to shoot the last day on those instances, as there was no supporting player to offload to.

Re: Shane Walsh, wondered if he was fully fit the last day, as he seemed very restrained, slipping aside. Very dangerous when fit, and when he gets the service though, and in my opinion, one of the most underrated full forwards in the game, although that seems to be slowly changing.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 7:27pm

Orizio wrote: »

No, every player from 8-15 needs to be able to contribute to the scoreboard, regardless of their other attributes. That is the only way you win AIs.

Bit naieve, as long as Seamus can win, offload and set up players for scores this year, thats as much as I think we can hope for, especially in a position that has been as much an achilles heel for us as the lauded full back position. That said, I would hope Seamus is practicing his shooting in training, especially under pressure, as the wides he had the last day were atrocious.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 7:31pm

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The best team doesn't always win, as anyone who has ever watched any sport could tell you.

In fairness, hurling is not like most sports, as the quantity of scores generally mean the best team of the day win, crazy refereeing and umpiring aside

Cake Man · 26-07-2012 8:06pm

Just passed Walsh park and the lads were finished up training, any word of the starting 15 for Sunday?

EDIT: SOK, Daniels, Lawlor, Connors, Browne, Brick, Moran, Molumphy, Philip Mahony, Paudric Mahony, Prendergast, Maurice, Mullane, Shane Walsh, Tommy Ryan.

One change from Munster final, Tommy Ryan in for Gavin O'Brien.

Cork line out as: Nash, O'Neill, McDonnell, Murphy, Kenny, Cadogan, Sean Óg, Kearney, Cronin, Lehane, Cian McCarthy, Niall McCarthy, Paudie Sull, Luke Farrell, Horgan.

Interesting that Sean Óg starts. McDonnell can be got at at FB and Cadogan is a bit loose at CB. Has Daniel Kearney startd for Cork this year?

doz · 26-07-2012 9:01pm

Would be happy enough with that team. I think this year has come too soon for Gavin O'Brien in terms of starting senior games but the experience will have done him good. Personally I would like to have seen Martin O'Neill coming in and not Tommy Ryan but at least we haven't resorted to Kelly. Can't wait for Sunday now, hon the Deise!

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 9:16pm

Interesting to see Tommy Ryan starting. Always felt he held a lot of promise, but have equally felt he is too light, and may get marked out of it. A good player to bring in I feel, but hope starting him Sunday does not backfire against us. As mentioned, felt O'Neill might be better suited to start at this level.

EDIT: Would add, I like the cavalier attitude of our management team, and to see them trying new things, even if they hold risk.

Orizio · 26-07-2012 9:40pm

First start for Kearney.

Orizio · 26-07-2012 9:42pm

lovelypoint wrote: »

Bit naieve, as long as Seamus can win, offload and set up players for scores this year, thats as much as I think we can hope for,

...thats the most you can hope for because he is a limited player. You expect more from top quality 11s. And I'm not the one being naive, trust me.

Professey Chin · 26-07-2012 9:43pm

Delighted to see Ryan get the start. Send the ball in low behind for him to run onto and he'll be a nightmare to catch

suitcasepink · 26-07-2012 9:46pm

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Delighted to see Ryan get the start.

Same!

Awwww lawds, tummys in bits over this one. Id say ill be taking the inhaler with me..

Mountainlad · 26-07-2012 10:05pm

It's good to see Tommy Ryan get a chance as a starter. First start having been on the panel since 2009. The one thing that's held him back is that he's so light, but it will be interesting to see how he'll do in from the throw in. He has made a couple of good cameo's of the bench. The goal last year against Galway, and this year against Clare setting up Martin O'Neill and nearly scoring a goal, even if he should have passed it. He'll have his work cut out for him, but it is good to see him get a chance because god knows we need some pace in the forward line and he's a very good finisher too.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 10:37pm

Orizio wrote: »

...thats the most you can hope for because he is a limited player. You expect more from top quality 11s. And I'm not the one being naive, trust me.

I agree, but the crux of the matter is we do not have a top quality 11 at the moment. Lack of ball winners in the half forward line have been a persistent problem for us for quite some time now, and one we've only really started to address this season under new management. For now, I would settle for an effective 11, and hope that the work is being done in the background to cultivate a top quality centreforward. Perhaps find someone with a good engine, and strong in the air, and force feed them Bonner Maher videos?:D

Mountainlad · 26-07-2012 10:44pm

Orizio wrote: »

...thats the most you can hope for because he is a limited player. You expect more from top quality 11s. And I'm not the one being naive, trust me.

How would you describe Bonner Maher? Maybe not a potent scoring threat, but he is invaluable to Tipp and I thought could easily have been man of the match against Cork as much as Noel McGrath was.

lovelypoint · 26-07-2012 10:44pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

It's good to see Tommy Ryan get a chance as a starter. First start having been on the panel since 2009. The one thing that's held him back is that he's so light, but it will be interesting to see how he'll do in from the throw in. He has made a couple of good cameo's of the bench. The goal last year against Galway, and this year against Clare setting up Martin O'Neill and nearly scoring a goal, even if he should have passed it. He'll have his work cut out for him, but it is good to see him get a chance because god knows we need some pace in the forward line and he's a very good finisher too.

Delighted to see him get a start too, and hope my previous post did not indicate otherwise. Heart of a lion, with a ferocious hunger for goal, his unashamed, competitive attitude on the pitch never fails to warm my heart. Reminds me a little of when Mullane burst onto the county scene, but young Tommy is still quite raw, and still quite light, so only time will tell..

deisebhoy17 · 26-07-2012 10:49pm

Tommy Ryan deserves his chance. Hes been knocking around the panel a few years now and has never got enough game time show what hes fully capable of. This is his time and I hope it works out for him

Mountainlad · 26-07-2012 10:51pm

Cake Man wrote: »

Just passed Walsh park and the lads were finished up training, any word of the starting 15 for Sunday?

EDIT: SOK, Daniels, Lawlor, Connors, Browne, Brick, Moran, Molumphy, Philip Mahony, Paudric Mahony, Prendergast, Maurice, Mullane, Shane Walsh, Tommy Ryan.

One change from Munster final, Tommy Ryan in for Gavin O'Brien.

Cork line out as: Nash, O'Neill, McDonnell, Murphy, Kenny, Cadogan, Sean Óg, Kearney, Cronin, Lehane, Cian McCarthy, Niall McCarthy, Paudie Sull, Luke Farrell, Horgan.

Interesting that Sean Óg starts. McDonnell can be got at at FB and Cadogan is a bit loose at CB. Has Daniel Kearney startd for Cork this year?

That Cork have reverted back to McDonnell and have been forced to play Cadogan, and indeed Sean Og making his first championship start in 2 years having fallen out of favour earlier in the year smacks of desperation.

Haven't seen this Kearney lad play so I can't comment on him to be fair.

Far from a settled team it has to be said, and that backline would not inspire confidence in me if I was a Cork fan.

I'm not usually one to make a definitive judgement on a game before for fear of looking the fool (talked us up a lot before the 2008 all-ireland final) but my confidence seems to be growing all the while with regard to this game. Hope I don't regret that

deisebhoy17 · 26-07-2012 10:52pm

Cake Man wrote: »

Just passed Walsh park and the lads were finished up training, any word of the starting 15 for Sunday?

EDIT: SOK, Daniels, Lawlor, Connors, Browne, Brick, Moran, Molumphy, Philip Mahony, Paudric Mahony, Prendergast, Maurice, Mullane, Shane Walsh, Tommy Ryan.

One change from Munster final, Tommy Ryan in for Gavin O'Brien.

Cork line out as: Nash, O'Neill, McDonnell, Murphy, Kenny, Cadogan, Sean Óg, Kearney, Cronin, Lehane, Cian McCarthy, Niall McCarthy, Paudie Sull, Luke Farrell, Horgan.

Interesting that Sean Óg starts. McDonnell can be got at at FB and Cadogan is a bit loose at CB. Has Daniel Kearney startd for Cork this year?

Not getting ahead of myself but looking at that cork team I think they are there for the taking. Only time will tellroll on sunday

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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