Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Mountainlad · 25-07-2012 1:52pm

premierstone wrote: »

Cork have serious problems at the back alright, especially CB and FB, Mullane will cause any team problems, Prendergast will win he's share of ball against any CB but isn't prolific enough, so the real key for me is Shane Walsh, if he plays as he can, Waterford will win IMO.

I think Prendergast is better at scoring than the Munster Final suggested, but not that many half forwards run up big scores anyway. If he win ball and doesn't let there centre back win clean ball then his job is done. Think Maurice is important too. While not noted for his speed, he created gaps in the Tipp defence the last day. His finishing product wasn't great, but that could easily change and he's well capable of burying a ball in the back of the net.

I'd agree about Shane Walsh, he's very important. Think he couldn't handle the pitch the last day, lost his footing a lot, but when he got the ball in space his point scoring is lethal, and of course he's excellent in the air. Big test for Cahalane.

deisedude · 25-07-2012 1:53pm

premierstone wrote: »

Cork have serious problems at the back alright, especially CB and FB, Mullane will cause any team problems, Prendergast will win he's share of ball against any CB but isn't prolific enough, so the real key for me is Shane Walsh, if he plays as he can, Waterford will win IMO.

If Prendergast and Walsh play well i think we will win. Cork are ropey at full back this year, if we can exploit this its ours to lose

Orizio · 25-07-2012 1:53pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

If he win ball and doesn't let there centre back win clean ball then his job is done.

No, every player from 8-15 needs to be able to contribute to the scoreboard, regardless of their other attributes. That is the only way you win AIs.

Mountainlad · 25-07-2012 1:55pm

Orizio wrote: »

No, every player from 8-15 needs to be able to contribute to the scoreboard, regardless of their other attributes. That is the only way you win AIs.

And I think he can. I didn't realize Sunday was an all-ireland final. His primary function is to win ball and to break it down for others, and if he does that and takes the right option and play in some of the quality ball he gave to setup scores in the Munster Final, than we'll be in with a good shout.

Orizio · 25-07-2012 1:59pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

I didn't realize Sunday was an all-ireland final.

No need to be smug mate.

Anyway, just making a point about the necessity of everyone from midfield up contributing if you want to be successful (which in GAA means winning AIs). Lads like Prendergast won't do in the game of hurling as it is right now, even if he may help to beat the mediocre teams in AI quarter finals, he'll be worthless against top class opposition. This whole 'if he wins some ball and stops his man from playing he has done his job' stuff was fine a decade ago, but not now.

mccarthy37 · 25-07-2012 1:59pm

I fear the JMB factor we could never handle Cork the last time he was in charge. He is like a God down there.

premierstone · 25-07-2012 1:59pm

Orizio wrote: »

Its rare I'd agree with PS but I'd have to say Walsh has to have a big game, particularly as he will be marking Cork's least experienced player, Cahalane. Well I'd imagine he'll be marking him.

See your knowledge is improving all the time

Mountainlad · 25-07-2012 2:04pm

Orizio wrote: »

No need to be smug mate.

Anyway, just making a point about the necessity of everyone from midfield up contributing if you want to be successful (which in GAA means winning AIs). Lads like Prendergast won't do in the game of hurling as it is right now, even if he may help to beat the mediocre teams in AI quarter finals, he'll be worthless against top class opposition. This whole 'if he wins some ball and stops his man from playing he has done his job' stuff was fine a decade ago, but not now.

That's very witty of you.

We might as well not bother playing the match Sunday so, as neither team is likely to win an all-ireland.

Worthless against top class opposition? Like Tipp? Didn't see his performance as worthless at all to be honest, his shooting was wayward and suddenly he has this reputation for being inaccurate (which I don't buy, I'd accept immobile). He roasted Conor O'Mahony.

Mountainlad · 25-07-2012 2:05pm

mccarthy37 wrote: »

I fear the JMB factor we could never handle Cork the last time he was in charge. He is like a God down there.

We hadn't won a Munster the last time he was in charge.

hardybuck · 25-07-2012 2:33pm

HillFarmer wrote: »

Possible team for Sunday?

Also who will be taking the frees?

Froim what I saw in Cork Maurice lost all confidence on the frees. Don't think a Quarter final will be any easier than a Munster.

I reckon if kelly is starting they should put him on the frees, i know he missed a 65 the last day but whne hes on form he can knock them over form all angles.

Didn't think P mahony was very consistent this year in league with his free taking as apposed to last year.
What are peoples thoughts on gavin o brien starting?
Will he get any change out of Shane o Neil or possibly Conor O Sullivan

Mahony, if fit and starts, must take the frees. I can't remember Shanahan ever matching his accuracy at county level.

I don't think Gavin O'Brien deserves to start. He hasn't performed in the first two games, and would have another tough assignment on Sunday ahead of him. I think you've got to give either Paul O'Brien or Martin O'Neill an opportunity. O'Neill also offers an option for frees if he is picked.

HillFarmer · 25-07-2012 3:28pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Mahony, if fit and starts, must take the frees. I can't remember Shanahan ever matching his accuracy at county level.

I don't think Gavin O'Brien deserves to start. He hasn't performed in the first two games, and would have another tough assignment on Sunday ahead of him. I think you've got to give either Paul O'Brien or Martin O'Neill an opportunity. O'Neill also offers an option for frees if he is picked.

Agree with you about Gavin, great Minor but proably too young to make an impact at Senior yet. I'd start Eoin Kelly Corner Forward and have a crack at any 21 yard free. I think our half backline will dominate so we should be able to get good ball into our forwards.

How fit can P mahony be? Don't think he will be able to last 70 mins.
Anyone know if darragh Fives is fit?

hardybuck · 25-07-2012 3:32pm

HillFarmer wrote: »

Agree with you about Gavin, great Minor but proably too young to make an impact at Senior yet. I'd start Eoin Kelly Corner Forward and have a crack at any 21 yard free. I think our half backline will dominate so we should be able to get good ball into our forwards.

How fit can P mahony be? Don't think he will be able to last 70 mins.
Anyone know if darragh Fives is fit?

How could you justify picking Fives given he couldn't last even a half of U21 against Clare? The defence is doing well and should be left along I believe.

I like the option of having Kelly as a sub when the game hopefully gets a bit looser and he might conjure a goal, but I don't think he deserves a start ahead of O'Neill or P.O'Brien.

mccarthy37 · 25-07-2012 3:55pm

If our under 21 team had won last Thursday night we would be lining up players for different positions now as it is there is a bit of doubt in our thinking. It would be great if some of the younger players have a great game on Sunday and show the promise we all believe they have. Martin O'Neill was very accurate from frees last Thursday under a lot of pressure so its not like we are stuck for options there. Its hard to believe we are still taught of as a one forward team. This was said about us when Paul Flynn was on the panel for a good few years sure wasn't Eoin Kelly and John Mullane on the panel for a good number of those years with Flynn. I hope we will prove on Sunday that this is not so. As the big day looms Cork seem to be oozing confidence and some are looking at Galway already. You can't really blame them as their record over us is very impressive before 06. Its going to be a mighty battle lets hope we can progress to face Galway I'm sure they would love a crack at us now with their new found confidence. They say the best team always wins lets hope that's us.

Roger Sterling · 25-07-2012 4:03pm

mccarthy37 wrote: »

If our under 21 team had won last Thursday night we would be lining up players for different positions now as it is there is a bit of doubt in our thinking. It would be great if some of the younger players have a great game on Sunday and show the promise we all believe they have. Martin O'Neill was very accurate from frees last Thursday under a lot of pressure so its not like we are stuck for options there. Its hard to believe we are still taught of as a one forward team. This was said about us when Paul Flynn was on the panel for a good few years sure wasn't Eoin Kelly and John Mullane on the panel for a good number of those years with Flynn. I hope we will prove on Sunday that this is not so. As the big day looms Cork seem to be oozing confidence and some are looking at Galway already. You can't really blame them as their record over us is very impressive before 06. Its going to be a mighty battle lets hope we can progress to face Galway I'm sure they would love a crack at us now with their new found confidence. They say the best team always wins lets hope that's us.

Clearly not, why bother having the game at all in the first place?

solarith · 25-07-2012 4:04pm

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Clearly not, why bother having the game at all in the first place?

?

Roger Sterling · 25-07-2012 4:05pm

solarith wrote: »

?

The best team doesn't always win, as anyone who has ever watched any sport could tell you.

HillFarmer · 25-07-2012 4:26pm

hardybuck wrote: »

How could you justify picking Fives given he couldn't last even a half of U21 against Clare? The defence is doing well and should be left along I believe.

I like the option of having Kelly as a sub when the game hopefully gets a bit looser and he might conjure a goal, but I don't think he deserves a start ahead of O'Neill or P.O'Brien.

Who said anything about picking Fives?
Just wanted to know if he was available.

Limestone1 · 25-07-2012 5:32pm

Looked like he pulled his hamstring in the U21 game so its unlikely

deisebhoy17 · 25-07-2012 6:20pm

mccarthy37 wrote: »

I fear the JMB factor we could never handle Cork the last time he was in charge. He is like a God down there.

Rubbish. Its 15 v 15 weve too much hoodoos hanging over us in this county. If you want something to go on weve met Cork god knows how many times in the past 10 years and theres rarely more than a puck of the ball between us. Sunday will be the same and it will come down to a bit of cuteness and experience to swing it

actually cork havent beaten us in our last 5 championship meetings. FACT so the days of us being fearful of counties are well and truly gone

scoring forward · 25-07-2012 7:23pm

I actually think that barron will start at 15 as his club understanding with shane walsh could be vital.I believe he gave N Connors a torrid time in an internal game last weekend.Otherwise T Ryan could be given the start cause i think there is going to be a great pace to the game.

hurler on de ditch · 25-07-2012 7:59pm

Orizio wrote: »

No need to be smug mate.

Anyway, just making a point about the necessity of everyone from midfield up contributing if you want to be successful (which in GAA means winning AIs). Lads like Prendergast won't do in the game of hurling as it is right now, even if he may help to beat the mediocre teams in AI quarter finals, he'll be worthless against top class opposition. This whole 'if he wins some ball and stops his man from playing he has done his job' stuff was fine a decade ago, but not now.

good point ,its like someone saying he wins dirty ball ,what the fcuk is dirty ball

mccarthy37 · 25-07-2012 8:00pm

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The best team doesn't always win, as anyone who has ever watched any sport could tell you.

No ****.

mccarthy37 · 25-07-2012 8:06pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Rubbish. Its 15 v 15 weve too much hoodoos hanging over us in this county. If you want something to go on weve met Cork god knows how many times in the past 10 years and theres rarely more than a puck of the ball between us. Sunday will be the same and it will come down to a bit of cuteness and experience to swing it

actually cork havent beaten us in our last 5 championship meetings. FACT so the days of us being fearful of counties are well and truly gone

I wouldn't call it rubbish I'd call it being careful, being very careful. We also held a hoodoo over Tipp for a few years as I recall. I don't want this one to end just yet.

Mountainlad · 25-07-2012 8:41pm

scoring forward wrote: »

I actually think that barron will start at 15 as his club understanding with shane walsh could be vital.I believe he gave N Connors a torrid time in an internal game last weekend.Otherwise T Ryan could be given the start cause i think there is going to be a great pace to the game.

I am 100 % certain that neither of them will start. An appearance at some stage from Barron is possible but not altogether sure he will feature. Tommy Ryan will take to the field at some stage in the game more than likely.

Cake Man · 25-07-2012 9:48pm

Either way, it'll be interesting to see who starts at 15. GOB was quiet v Clare and Tipp but then if you drop him, are the alternatives (Kelly, Paul O'Brien, Tommy Ryan) much better?

Ballygunner beat Mount Sion in minor championship this evening, think it was 0-18 to 1-12. Entertaining game but Wadding too whistle happy. Late penalty by Austin Gleeson saved that would have brought them level. Defeat means Sion out of championship now.

zol 2 · 25-07-2012 9:58pm

scoring forward wrote: »

I actually think that barron will start at 15 as his club understanding with shane walsh could be vital.I believe he gave N Connors a torrid time in an internal game last weekend.Otherwise T Ryan could be given the start cause i think there is going to be a great pace to the game.

Big difference getting a few scores off Noel Connors in a half paced game than been thrown into the heat of battle in an All Ireland q/f. While he is definitely one for the future the lack of not having played any game with the seniors in either league or championship would stand against him. You would imagine the Cork defenders would love someone new thrown in against them it would suit them down to the ground. I think Paul O Brien would be a better option to start.
For Barron's own sake he'd be better off not starting look at what happened to Brian O Halloran against Tipp 2 years ago in the semi final the game flew past him for the 20 mins he was on.

The blue blaa · 25-07-2012 10:53pm

premierstone wrote: »

The blue blaa wrote: »

The under 21 grade is a joke really it was always considered a stepping stone to senior hurling but these days with so many players goin straight outta minor into senior much more of a young mans game these days, it's hard to take it seriously it's a balls of a competition IMHO IT's the senior results that matter

All very easy to say when your county is enjoying no success at the grade, u-21 is far from a joke, and IMO is actually the purest form of hurling when played right, no over emphasis on tactics etc. some of the best games of the last 20 years have been at under 21 level.

Sorry premierstone I was talking about Waterford only,I agree with you in what you say but down here it's not taken as serious as it maybe should be not by all in fairness now but the results back it up IMO

hurler on de ditch · 26-07-2012 8:55am

zol 2 wrote: »

Big difference getting a few scores off Noel Connors in a half paced game than been thrown into the heat of battle in an All Ireland q/f. While he is definitely one for the future the lack of not having played any game with the seniors in either league or championship would stand against him. You would imagine the Cork defenders would love someone new thrown in against them it would suit them down to the ground. I think Paul O Brien would be a better option to start.
For Barron's own sake he'd be better off not starting look at what happened to Brian O Halloran against Tipp 2 years ago in the semi final the game flew past him for the 20 mins he was on.

the tipp game where Brian O Halloran was playing completely different ,he was in a 2 man ff line with the half back line in midfield[GOD davy fitz was a genius really]so it was like 2against 6 but sure there you go ,we cant keep looking back on that game,

hardybuck · 26-07-2012 10:00am

Anyone suggesting that Barron should start must be mental. He'd be eaten alive out there. Give him a run in the Waterford Crystal next year and take it from there.

Tommy Ryan wouldn't be my go to man if I was looking for an impact from the bench either. He'd probably be my fourth choice of forward replacements.

A debate for another day, but I'd be fairly unhappy with the positioning of Eoin Madigan at wing back for both DLS and the U21's. While DLS will be entitled to play their players wherever they want, the U21's mandate should be taking a longer term view of developing players. A couple of years ago he was scoring outrageous points in the full forward line for DLS in an All Ireland club semi final. We rarely see forwards with his size and accuracy, and should have been experimenting with him rather than the likes of Eoin McGrath.

redlead · 26-07-2012 10:54am

hardybuck wrote: »

Anyone suggesting that Barron should start must be mental. He'd be eaten alive out there. Give him a run in the Waterford Crystal next year and take it from there.

Tommy Ryan wouldn't be my go to man if I was looking for an impact from the bench either. He'd probably be my fourth choice of forward replacements.

A debate for another day, but I'd be fairly unhappy with the positioning of Eoin Madigan at wing back for both DLS and the U21's. While DLS will be entitled to play their players wherever they want, the U21's mandate should be taking a longer term view of developing players. A couple of years ago he was scoring outrageous points in the full forward line for DLS in an All Ireland club semi final. We rarely see forwards with his size and accuracy, and should have been experimenting with him rather than the likes of Eoin McGrath.

I agree 100% with all of the above. I'm of the view that Jamie Barron is the youngster with the biggest potential for us but I don't think he should really be expected to be playing intercounty for another couple of years. We are throwing lads in way too early lately. GOB is just having his confidence destroyed lately and Brian O Halloran has become a forgotten man.

Can't for the life of me understand why Madigan isn't being played in the forwards either.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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