10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

Pantsface · 20-07-2012 07:14PM

So excited to see this movie, and can't stop thinking how those poor people would have been the same, delighted to finally see it, only for it to end up like this.

God love them.

Madam_X · 20-07-2012 07:20PM

old hippy wrote: »

I disagree. If we're getting into the blame game, we should take a closer look at what leads someone to dehumanise themselves and do such a thing.

Again, I am not condoning such acts but am concerned that as usual the baying mob will pass judgement without looking at the bigger picture.

Not a baying mob member here, but... he could have been bullied, abused, mentally ill... he's still the only one responsible for this atrocity. I don't agree with the death penalty but I think he should get actual life in a maximum security prison/psychiatric institution. What more would be appropriate? Yeh, the causes of his act need to be examined in order to prevent a repeat, but it's not like this isn't being researched already. Not everyone is a knee-jerk simpleton. Unfortunately some people seem to be beyond help...

3ndahalfof6 · 20-07-2012 07:20PM

Pantsface wrote: »

So excited to see this movie, and can't stop thinking how those poor people would have been the same, delighted to finally see it, only for it to end up like this.

God love them.

HuH!

token101 · 20-07-2012 07:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

300 million people compared to 5 million. Pretty simple really.

And I'm sorry but who the **** else will you blame? The people who carry out these acts are responsible, no-one else.

Or vs the 100s of millions in Europe? I didn't say he wasn't to blame. I said it will happen again and again in America.

stevenmu · 20-07-2012 07:21PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Colorado 117 murders, 65 by firearms.

Alabama 199 murders, 135 by firearms

South Carolina 280 murders, 207 by firearms

Minnesota 91 murders, 53 by firearms

Wisconsin 157 murders, 97 by firearms

Norway 31 murders, 9 by firearms

You can look at those statistics another way too:

Colorado 117 murders, 52 without firearms.

Alabama 199 murders, 64 without firearms

South Carolina 280 murders, 73 without firearms

Minnesota 91 murders, 38 without firearms

Wisconsin 157 murders, 60 without firearms

Norway 31 murders, 22 without firearms

It's clear that the states listed have higher murder rates than Norway even when fire arms are taken out of the equation. Despite all of the really wonderful things about America and Americans, there seems to be a serious problem with violence and murder. Sure a lot of the murders are firearms related, but if you look at how many are not firearm related, despite the easy availability of firearms, can you really say that taking the firearms away is going to prevent the murders?

If I have to hit a nail into a piece of timber, I'm clearly going to reach for a hammer and not a screwdriver, but there has been times when I didn't have a hammer, so I got the handle of the screwdriver and bet the nail in all the same.

There's clearly a much deeper problem than just the availability of guns, and in order to identify and solve it people need to stop scapegoating and face the real issues.

Duggys Housemate · 20-07-2012 07:24PM

This guy could've been abused as a kid. Or he could've been a psychopath who wanted to kill people. Or both. There are psychos out there, the most that happens when people are bullied is - for the most case they harm themselves.

The world has psychos. This is an important lesson.

token101 · 20-07-2012 07:26PM

stevenmu wrote: »

You can look at those statistics another way too:

Colorado 117 murders, 52 without firearms.

Alabama 199 murders, 64 without firearms

South Carolina 280 murders, 73 without firearms

Minnesota 91 murders, 38 without firearms

Wisconsin 157 murders, 60 without firearms

Norway 31 murders, 22 without firearms

It's clear that the states listed have higher murder rates than Norway even when fire arms are taken out of the equation. Despite all of the really wonderful things about America and Americans, there seems to be a serious problem with violence and murder. Sure a lot of the murders are firearms related, but if you look at how many are not firearm related, despite the easy availability of firearms, can you really say that taking the firearms away is going to prevent the murders?

If I have to hit a nail into a piece of timber, I'm clearly going to reach for a hammer and not a screwdriver, but there has been times when I didn't have a hammer, so I got the handle of the screwdriver and bet the nail in all the same.

There's clearly a much deeper problem than just the availability of guns, and in order to identify and solve it people need to stop scapegoating and face the real issues.

A lot harder to kill dozens of people in one sitting with a knife though. Also requires a lot more effort and aggression than simply pointing and clicking.

old hippy · 20-07-2012 07:26PM

Onixx wrote: »

Not a baying mob member here, but... he could have been bullied, abused, mentally ill... he's still the only one responsible for this atrocity. I don't agree with the death penalty but I think he should get actual life in a maximum security prison/psychiatric institution. What more would be appropriate? Yeh, the causes of his act need to be examined in order to prevent a repeat, but it's not like this isn't being researched already. Not everyone is a knee-jerk simpleton. Unfortunately some people seem to be beyond help...

Actually the whole thread is pretty balanced between mob heavies, pink wristed bleeding heart liberals like me and inbetweeners

I want to know more about his circumstances but currently I am of the opinion that this is some kinds of revenge attack to a perceived slight or way that society has treated him.

Rest assured, am pretty certain that the bloke won't be on the streets of Denver for a very long time. If ever.

Shreddingblood · 20-07-2012 07:26PM

tbh I found some of the jokes funny

Duggys Housemate · 20-07-2012 07:26PM

old hippy wrote: »

Actually the whole thread is pretty balanced between mob heavies, pink wristed bleeding heart liberals like me and inbetweeners

I want to know more about his circumstances but currently I am of the opinion that this is some kinds of revenge attack to a perceived slight or way that society has treated him.

Rest assured, am pretty certain that the bloke won't be on the streets of Denver for a very long time. If ever.

Or he likes killing people because he is a psychopath.

old hippy · 20-07-2012 07:28PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Or he likes killing people because he is a psychopath.

Perhaps. It's all speculation for now. Including my own feelings on the matter.

stevenmu · 20-07-2012 07:30PM

token101 wrote: »

A lot harder to kill dozens of people in one sitting with a knife though. Also requires a lot more effort and aggression than simply pointing and clicking.

It's a lot easier with homemade explosives or chemicals, or by flying a plane into a building, or by setting fire to one etc.. etc..

People don't just find themselves sitting around bored and holding a gun and decide to kill dozens of people. They decide to kill dozens of people and then set about how to do it. The problem isn't that they have access to guns, it's that they decide to kill dozens of people in the first place.

token101 · 20-07-2012 07:31PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

This guy could've been abused as a kid. Or he could've been a psychopath who wanted to kill people. Or both. There are psychos out there, the most that happens when people are bullied is - for the most case they harm themselves.

The world has psychos. This is an important lesson.

Isn't a bit strange though, how America seems to have proportionally more than anywhere else?

PrincessLola · 20-07-2012 07:34PM

old hippy wrote: »

Actually the whole thread is pretty balanced between mob heavies, pink wristed bleeding heart liberals like me and inbetweeners

The thing is, I'm usually a massive bleeding heart liberal on most issues (unemployment, racism, feminism, welfare). But when I hear a baby got shot at at point blank range and a twelve year old was killed I just went into a mini-meltdown

I guess that makes me the true bleeding heart heh..

token101 · 20-07-2012 07:34PM

stevenmu wrote: »

It's a lot easier with homemade explosives or chemicals, or by flying a plane into a building, or by setting fire to one etc.. etc..

People don't just find themselves sitting around bored and holding a gun and decide to kill dozens of people. They decide to kill dozens of people and then set about how to do it. The problem isn't that they have access to guns, it's that they decide to kill dozens of people in the first place.

How do you know that? If you're that pissed off and you have the means, you'll do something about it. But having weapons like he did makes a lot easier. It's difficult to make a bomb unless you know what you're doing. It's even more difficult to hijack a plane. You saw that guy last year who drove to Cork Airport in a police jeep? No one died, he got 8 years (I think?), a relatively fair sentence. Do you think if he had easy access to weapons that would have ended as well? Because I certainly don't.

Witcher · 20-07-2012 07:35PM

Not a hope in hell that there will be any changes to firearms legislation in the US after this, it would be political suicide for Obama or any future president to touch the second amendment. People hold their constitutional rights to firearms incredibly seriously there.

Duggys Housemate · 20-07-2012 07:35PM

token101 wrote: »

Isn't a bit strange though, how America seems to have proportionally more than anywhere else?

That could be access to guns, though.

However, in the Psychopath Test there was a telling exchange with a psychologist in Scotland.

q: How many Psychopath are there in scottish Jails?
a: None, they are all in Jail in London - where the rate of incarcarated Psychopaths is high.

Psychopaths are attracted to bright lights and big cities, the kind of thing that drove America forward - the entrepreneurship and drive of the self selecting groups who went there - may have meant it attracted more psychos. Psychopathy is not a trivial inheritance issue, only 1 % of the population is at any one time, but if the ratio is higher in a part of the world it probably stays higher.

Tym · 20-07-2012 07:35PM

Isn't a bit strange though, how America seems to have proportionally more than anywhere else?

Not really. Common sense would tell you that if something happens once it increases the chances of it happening again.

It's difficult to make a bomb unless you know what you're doing.

Sorry, but petrol bombs.

token101 · 20-07-2012 07:48PM

Tym wrote: »

Not really. Common sense would tell you that if something happens once it increases the chances of it happening again.

Can't see happening in Norway again though.

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

That could be access to guns, though.

However, in the Psychopath Test there was a telling exchange with a psychologist in Scotland.

q: How many Psychopath are there in scottish Jails?
a: None, they are all in Jail in London - where the rate of incarcarated Psychopaths is high.

Psychopaths are attracted to bright lights and big cities, the kind of thing that drove America forward - the entrepreneurship and drive of the self selecting groups who went there - may have meant it attracted more psychos. Psychopathy is not a trivial inheritance issue, only 1 % of the population is at any one time, but if the ratio is higher in a part of the world it probably stays higher.

Can you name one mass shooting incident like this in London? Berlin? They're all big cities like the ones in the states?

Duggys Housemate · 20-07-2012 07:50PM

token101 wrote: »

Can't see happening in Norway again though.

Can you name one mass shooting incident like this in London? Berlin? They're all big cities like the ones in the states?

Also, guns. My first point. I did say that America attracted more psychos to begin with, and add guns, and you are done.

Suryavarman · 20-07-2012 08:15PM

token101 wrote: »

Can you name one mass shooting incident like this in London? Berlin? They're all big cities like the ones in the states?

They didn't occur in London or Berlin but the Cumbria shootings & the Erfurt massacre are similar incidents.

Mickeroo · 20-07-2012 08:15PM

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

And you are telling me the above scenario would be worse than what happened, complete unopposed shooting into the crowd and 50 people shot? Any kind of resistance would have reduced the number of casualties, and glib sarcastic replies don't change that.

Neither of us can know that tbh, and I wasn't being sarcastic or glib.

MadYaker · 20-07-2012 08:21PM

How many more times does this have to happen before Americans realise that guns for anybody that wants them is not a good idea?

MadYaker · 20-07-2012 08:23PM

Blay wrote: »

Not a hope in hell that there will be any changes to firearms legislation in the US after this, it would be political suicide for Obama or any future president to touch the second amendment. People hold their constitutional rights to firearms incredibly seriously there.

True but I think incidents like this are becoming more frequent and I think in a few years time there will be some changes to the second amendment.

Luno · 20-07-2012 08:38PM

I think everyone should have a read of this.

Witcher · 20-07-2012 08:40PM

MadYaker wrote: »

True but I think incidents like this are becoming more frequent and I think in a few years time there will be some changes to the second amendment.

It would be incredibly difficult, from reading US shooting forums and watching shooting Youtube channels people over there are buying up firearms and ammunition like never before, add that to all those already in civilian hands. To try and impose stricter laws on firearms possession such as licencing in that climate would mean all those already out there would have to be grandfathered and kept unlicenced.

If they were to try and take them back I could only imagine the trouble that would erupt. I'm a shooter myself and when you explain our laws to Americans they just cannot fathom it, it is just beyond belief for them that one would need a licence, have to wait 3 months for it and be at the whim of your local Gardai. It's part of their culture and identity to own firearms. Someday I can see it being tackled but the problem will only be even bigger then.

old hippy · 20-07-2012 08:42PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

They didn't occur in London or Berlin but the Cumbria shootings & the Erfurt massacre are similar incidents.

Hmmm. It's more a home grown terrorism thingy but we did have David Copeland causing chaos and trying to stir up hatreds but I guess that had a more "political" bent to it....

old hippy · 20-07-2012 08:43PM

PrincessLola wrote: »

The thing is, I'm usually a massive bleeding heart liberal on most issues (unemployment, racism, feminism, welfare). But when I hear a baby got shot at at point blank range and a twelve year old was killed I just went into a mini-meltdown

I guess that makes me the true bleeding heart heh..

Those dry cleaning bills must add up, eh?

notnumber · 20-07-2012 08:48PM

Luno wrote: »

I think everyone should have a read of this.

everyone cant login to fc

old hippy · 20-07-2012 08:55PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

That could be access to guns, though.

However, in the Psychopath Test there was a telling exchange with a psychologist in Scotland.

q: How many Psychopath are there in scottish Jails?
a: None, they are all in Jail in London - where the rate of incarcarated Psychopaths is high.

Psychopaths are attracted to bright lights and big cities, the kind of thing that drove America forward - the entrepreneurship and drive of the self selecting groups who went there - may have meant it attracted more psychos. Psychopathy is not a trivial inheritance issue, only 1 % of the population is at any one time, but if the ratio is higher in a part of the world it probably stays higher.

Dunblane being an exception? Plus massacres in China, I don't think all the school killings have taken place in a city?

10 shot dead at Batman showing in Denver

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