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Phoenix Park Concert - Swedish House Mafia *** READ POST 121 BEFORE POSTING***
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beware people of Rathfarnham the same crowd will be at the David Guetta gig in Marly PK0
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A lot of people are blaming the Security for this, i've been in the industry for 15+ yrs and here's my observations.
The introduction of the Private Security Industry (SIA in UK), although great in making all Security personnel having to be registered, has so many flaws it's unreal.
When i first started working the doors, and doing concert security, there was a lot of good lads, and 99% of thm could handle issues like those that arose at the gig the other night, not only could they handle them, they were confident in doing so and would, 99% of the time, sort out any issues.
Then the PSA (SIA) came along, some of the door guys i worked with in the UK (Can't answer for Ireland as wasn't here at that stage) lost their ability to work overnight, all because they had 1 or 2 MINOR indescretions on there records.
Replacing these guys came a new breed, Little Billy, who wanted to supplement his full time job in Mcdonalds with a few extra quid, 10stone Mohammed who thought it was easy work. These type of people WOULD NEVER know how to deal with situations, or be confident in any way, yet they had there license, and when a promotor/club asked for a Security Officer, the agency would send them along, a lot of agencies will charge 20Euro per hour per man, and give the Security guy 10, so of course they're not really that arsed.
There's a core of decent guys at any 1 gig, but IMO only 25% of current security could handle the incidents.
That's one of the main rasons why i got out of the Door game, i had no confidence in the team around me, sure, a few would stand with me but the rest.......
Put it this way, if you were doing Concert Security and were being paid 10Euro an hour, then come across a guy waving a knife, would you deal with him or walk away? I would 100% have the confidence (And profesional integrity) to sort t out, most won't though0 -
UsedToWait wrote: »In fairness, it's better now than when MCD's heavy hitting legal team meant that we weren't even able to mention an MCD event on here...
Yes, it's nonsense, and completely against the ethos of freedom of speech and expression that our constitution is supposed to protect and cherish, but then what can we expect when our elected representatives and lawmakers sit inside a culture driven by political donations and business connections, consistently underdeliver on their promises, and then use Dáil privelidge to claim that the open debate and discussion that a forum like boards.ie affords is "tantamount to subversion of the state"?
As far as I'm concerned, if I want to express an entirely personal opinion that a particular company or enterprise (referring to no company in particular here, once again of course) is massively abusing a position of market dominance and purposely taking advantage of political inertia and failures of enforcement to profiteer while knowingly and callously endangering the well being and safety of citizens of the state, I should be able to express that opinion without fear of retribution to myself or anyone who facilitates me in doing so.
I should also be able to express a completely personal opinion about my disgust for any particular individual at the head of any such hypothetical company who might have the gall to release a disengenuous, lip-servicing statement, drafted by a PR team and without a shred of contrition to it, for the sole purpose of calculated damage limitation after having received negative media attention in connection with a major incident.
Unfortunately, naming names in a (hypothetical) situation like that (were it ever to arise) could cause a lot of heat for a lot of very conscientious people running online forums-People who probably would be looked on a lot more kindly by the legal systems in better countries than this one. As a result, I will make sure not to venture down that road at any point...0 -
Why is rave music being blamed when the lightweight gangster rapper snoop doggy dog was playing, he is lightweight in gangster rap in the US but to the Irish gangsters he must be the nearest to gangster they have been able to see.
Over the last six months gangster rap has taken off in a huge way with the young men in Dublin it started in the inner city and has spread like wildfire, they are listening to Niggaz Wit Attitudes, Ice t, dr dre, etc,
This Music of course glorifies violence, random violence not just violence against other gangs but against anybody including women- it’s the music to listen to if you are robbing a little old ladies handbag or putting a “bullet in his face” one of their fav tracks. Working with young men a few weeks ago (some 18 with conviction‘s for hand guns,) I found young men ,nice kid’s really from good family’s not the kind of kids that would become gangsters five years ago were listing to 80’s gangster rap, but they were in gangs and they all were listing to this rap all the time and were talking to each other with the same type of terms of the 80’s U.S. black ghetto- at the time I saw the funny side of this (ali-g) but it’s not funny it’s like some type of religion that is sweeping the land. The young guy’s think they really are gangsters and they are willing to prove it.
But why are young men in Dublin Ireland listing to gangtsa rap from the 1980’s, 90’s U.S. black ghettos. Why is this big in thing in Dublin? Is it because they have no hope of a job, car, and house all the things they need to get a girl.
In twith the gombeens from the media and political elite without the slightest idea that they are them self’s to blame. Every single day the unemployed have been attacked by the media and the political elite – “they are all sponging lazy bums” etc. In a country that had really no unemployment only five years back. Think these nasty attacks will get the country back to work when there is no jobs or might it have some really weird effects like rising Gangsta culture.
The best one is from austerity pin-up Joan Burton “-Joan Burton TD, Minister for Social Protection, today (10th July) said that what happened in the Phoenix Park on Saturday was “totally unacceptable.’’ “I saw the excessive intake of alcohol on Saturday as I was in the Castleknock and Navan Road areas myself. I also noticed that some very young people appeared to have been drinking heavily. The debris left behind made that very clear. I am also concerned about reports of other substances being abused’’
Drinking Alcohol were they Joan, drugs you say, - They must have too much cash Joan is paying unemployed men under 25 years €100 a week to live on and when they are older Joan will pay them a €188 for the rest of their lives because Joan belongs to a government that is doing sod all for jobs or education for the poor. I think that’s totally unacceptable. The fight in the park and the fight in Henry street will be seen as marking the very beginning of a major change in Ireland, this time next year we will look back with nostalgia at the time you could leave the house without being stabbed or shot at and that will include Castleknock .0 -
^^don't forget the Greeks, they invented gayness!0
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IRISHREDSTAR wrote: »Why is rave music being blamed when the lightweight gangster rapper snoop doggy dog was playing, he is lightweight in gangster rap in the US but to the Irish gangsters he must be the nearest to gangster they have been able to see.
Over the last six months gangster rap has taken off in a huge way with the young men in Dublin it started in the inner city and has spread like wildfire, they are listening to Niggaz Wit Attitudes, Ice t, dr dre, etc,
This Music of course glorifies violence, random violence not just violence against other gangs but against anybody including women- it’s the music to listen to if you are robbing a little old ladies handbag or putting a “bullet in his face” one of their fav tracks. Working with young men a few weeks ago (some 18 with conviction‘s for hand guns,) I found young men ,nice kid’s really from good family’s not the kind of kids that would become gangsters five years ago were listing to 80’s gangster rap, but they were in gangs and they all were listing to this rap all the time and were talking to each other with the same type of terms of the 80’s U.S. black ghetto- at the time I saw the funny side of this (ali-g) but it’s not funny it’s like some type of religion that is sweeping the land. The young guy’s think they really are gangsters and they are willing to prove it.
But why are young men in Dublin Ireland listing to gangtsa rap from the 1980’s, 90’s U.S. black ghettos. Why is this big in thing in Dublin? Is it because they have no hope of a job, car, and house all the things they need to get a girl.
In twith the gombeens from the media and political elite without the slightest idea that they are them self’s to blame. Every single day the unemployed have been attacked by the media and the political elite – “they are all sponging lazy bums” etc. In a country that had really no unemployment only five years back. Think these nasty attacks will get the country back to work when there is no jobs or might it have some really weird effects like rising Gangsta culture.
The best one is from austerity pin-up Joan Burton “-Joan Burton TD, Minister for Social Protection, today (10th July) said that what happened in the Phoenix Park on Saturday was “totally unacceptable.’’ “I saw the excessive intake of alcohol on Saturday as I was in the Castleknock and Navan Road areas myself. I also noticed that some very young people appeared to have been drinking heavily. The debris left behind made that very clear. I am also concerned about reports of other substances being abused’’
Drinking Alcohol were they Joan, drugs you say, - They must have too much cash Joan is paying unemployed men under 25 years €100 a week to live on and when they are older Joan will pay them a €188 for the rest of their lives because Joan belongs to a government that is doing sod all for jobs or education for the poor. I think that’s totally unacceptable. The fight in the park and the fight in Henry street will be seen as marking the very beginning of a major change in Ireland, this time next year we will look back with nostalgia at the time you could leave the house without being stabbed or shot at and that will include Castleknock .
That's a pretty random rant. I can't fully understand what kind of point you're trying to make.
The gangster rap argument is bollix in my opinion. Young people have been listening to that for the best part of 10 years or more now. It's not just confined to 6 months, as you claim, and there has never been violence on this scale before so you can't put it solely down to Snoop Dogg and his music.
Rave and rap music are usually the default options for criticising things. If it's not one then it has to be the other.
It's convenient that you failed to mention the excessive drinking. I walked up O'Connell Street at 3.30 that day and 90% of the people I saw were off their trolley. Others were walking along with more cans, and one lad had a bottle of vodka and Buckfast. There wasn't a guard in sight to tell him to get rid of it. I'm all for having a good time but drinking in excess can only lead to bad things, and all it takes is a couple of people to kick things off when inside.0 -
Drinking Alcohol were they Joan, drugs you say, - They must have too much cash Joan is paying unemployed men under 25 years €100 a week to live on and when they are older Joan will pay them a €188 for the rest of their lives because Joan belongs to a government that is doing sod all for jobs or education for the poor. I think that’s totally unacceptable.
I think irishredstar is right there about joan burton,how it relates to the stabbing though is a different story..Its easy for the likes of joan to have a good old dole bashing at the poor,when she doesnt chastise the rich who are comitting travel fraud quite regulary in the dail..remember mary harney and the FAS scandal,and junkets for her friends in high places?Or the ruari quinn travel expenses scandal,or the TD selling the passports to non nationals,when he shouldnt have been doing?
I think FAS/JOBBRIDGE,is one of the worst quangos to befall the youth of today,as FAS/JOBBRIDGE robs what could have been a paid job advertised,it creates unemployment,something we dont need in a recession.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »IMO The differences between the two gigs are not just down to the crowd, they are due to the hugely different approaches to public safety spending, alcohol consumption, event licensing, drug enforcement, corporate greed, and general cop on and ability to act like an adult between concert-goers in the two different countries mentioned.
Irish attitudes to all of these things (both from the Irish authorities and organizers as well as from Irish gig-goers and ticket buyers) have created a situation here where promoters (no names mentioned) can easily skimp on security, enforcement, policing contributions, stop and search, crowd control, and all of the other costs that go with running a show without any fear of sanction, while at the same time charging some of the highest ticket prices for gigs in all of Europe. In short, Ireland is easy pickings.
A big gig in Ireland is a license for a major promoter to charge whatever they want, skimp on lots of the running costs, and make lots of profit, and if there are any consequences (like the ones we had last weekend), all they have to do is pay lip service in a public statement, and express regret that a few bad apples spoiled it for everybody else, and that will be the end of the matter for them. No slap on the wrist, no fines, they're free and clear.
As regards to specific concert promoters and their track records in Ireland, I'm going to tread carefully and stick to facts here, and only talk about what I've seen personally from one promoter in particular, lest i be accused of being libelous or infringing on anyone's reputation or deserved good name (whatever happened to open public discourse on the net? The threat of litigation has got everybody walking on eggshells around here).
I personally have seen MCD and their agents shirking their responsibilities on several occasions in the past while running large gigs in Ireland, often involving very serious consequences for their paying attendees, but with none so far for themselves in terms of any resulting sanctions, fines, withdrawal of licenses etc.
The last large, open-air MCD event i attended was AC/DC in Punchestown in 2009, a venue which was grossly unsuitable for the purpose. I was charged far too much for my ticket, had a thoroughly miserable experience in gaining access to the venue by public transport due to insufficient and downright dangerous access planning, had a torrid time while there due to the dreadful organization within the venue itself, and left early to avoid the traffic mayhem which eventually occurred.
While approaching the venue and attending the show, i saw gross breaches of public safety and fire and emergency access regulations, widespread failure to stop and search due to insufficient spending by the organizers on staff and marshaling, sales of alcohol to minors, public drunkenness to the point of vomiting and unconsciousness, widespread littering, violence, insufficient planning around crowd movement, improper lighting, pedestrian access, parking, toilet facilities, and improper and unsuitable provisions around access to public transport (which later resulted in stampeding and trampling injuries to many people who rushed the buses after the show, in fear of another 5 hour trip home).
I left that show vowing never to go to another large open-air MCD-promoted gig in Ireland (which i haven't), and wondering how long it would take before somebody lost their life at one of their events due to a combination of their irresponsibility, the lack of any appropriate sanctions or deterrent being visible under law, and the general stupidity and irresponsibility of some of the Irish concert-going public.
It seems i have my answer.....and yet all of the noise that the dreadful events at this recent phoenix park gig has generated in the press will die down by next week and will all be forgotten about...until it happens again next time.
How many concert goers have to die at an event like last weekend's before all parties concerned are willing to really genuinely do something about it? Do we really need another incident on the scale of the stardust disaster before people are willing to demand something is done here? Why do we always need loss of life and the associated outrage that goes with it to shock us into action in Ireland?
We will never get anywhere on this unless everybody involved stands up and takes responsibility for their actions. Everybody has a part to play here. The promoters, the lawmakers, the educators, the drinks industry, the security and police enforcement task forces, the parents who give impressionable children their attitudes to drink/drugs, and above all the concert-goers themselves.
You make some reasonable points and I agree that MCD always skimp but your argument falls down when you consider that there were gigs in the same venue last weekend either side of the Saturday gig when, despite poor organisation once again from MCD, there was no trouble and no arrests.
When that list of artists was put together last Saturday was an accident waiting to happen, the only people the likes of Swedish House Mafia appeal to in general are teenagers and scumbags, most people grow out of liking that sort of cheesy dance music the older they get.0 -
You make some reasonable points and I agree that MCD always skimp but your argument falls down when you consider that there were gigs in the same venue last weekend either side of the Saturday gig when, despite poor organisation once again from MCD, there was no trouble and no arrests.
When that list of artists was put together last Saturday was an accident waiting to happen, the only people the likes of Swedish House Mafia appeal to in general are teenagers and scumbags, most people grow out of liking that sort of cheesy dance music the older they get.
It does highlight the "one size fits all" attitude to organisation though. What is right for gig is not necessarily right for another gig.0 -
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When that list of artists was put together last Saturday was an accident waiting to happen, the only people the likes of Swedish House Mafia appeal to in general are teenagers and scumbags, most people grow out of liking that sort of cheesy dance music the older they get.
What about Snoop? Hasn't he been around for over 20 years? You could say thats where your argument falls down....0 -
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A lot of people are blaming the Security for this, i've been in the industry for 15+ yrs and here's my observations.
The introduction of the Private Security Industry (SIA in UK), although great in making all Security personnel having to be registered, has so many flaws it's unreal.
When i first started working the doors, and doing concert security, there was a lot of good lads, and 99% of thm could handle issues like those that arose at the gig the other night, not only could they handle them, they were confident in doing so and would, 99% of the time, sort out any issues.
Then the PSA (SIA) came along, some of the door guys i worked with in the UK (Can't answer for Ireland as wasn't here at that stage) lost their ability to work overnight, all because they had 1 or 2 MINOR indescretions on there records.
Replacing these guys came a new breed, Little Billy, who wanted to supplement his full time job in Mcdonalds with a few extra quid, 10stone Mohammed who thought it was easy work. These type of people WOULD NEVER know how to deal with situations, or be confident in any way, yet they had there license, and when a promotor/club asked for a Security Officer, the agency would send them along, a lot of agencies will charge 20Euro per hour per man, and give the Security guy 10, so of course they're not really that arsed.
There's a core of decent guys at any 1 gig, but IMO only 25% of current security could handle the incidents.
That's one of the main rasons why i got out of the Door game, i had no confidence in the team around me, sure, a few would stand with me but the rest.......
Put it this way, if you were doing Concert Security and were being paid 10Euro an hour, then come across a guy waving a knife, would you deal with him or walk away? I would 100% have the confidence (And profesional integrity) to sort t out, most won't though
+1
I said it in another thread, and I speak with the benefit of 20 plus years in the industry.
The guys working these events are the dregs of the security industry.
As for the PSA, they're just another useless FF/Green quango which has made a balls of something they were entrusted with.
Good post Scud.0 -
You make some reasonable points and I agree that MCD always skimp but your argument falls down when you consider that there were gigs in the same venue last weekend either side of the Saturday gig when, despite poor organisation once again from MCD, there was no trouble and no arrests.
Different demographics of patrons require different approaches in terms of crowd control, drug enforcement, security etc, instead of throwing out the same low cost response for everyone. It's reasonable to expect different levels of anti-social behaviour at different events based on the average age profile and social dynamic of the fans of the bands on the bill, otherwise we would see the same level of mayhem at a simon and garfunkel gig as we did last Saturday. The key point though, is that the promoters should arrange security and crowd control accordingly with respect to that fact.
Had the crowds on Friday and Sunday been as irresponsible as some of the crowd from Saturday was, we could have easily been looking at a multiple of the weekend's death and injury toll, as it looks like the security response was inadequate for all 3 gigs, but luckily for all concerned, the majority of the weekend's concert goers didn't behave like animals, just some of the ones from Saturday did. That's not to say that the organisers are fully to blame for that, they're not, but they do have a responsibility to be properly prepared and resourced for the increased likelyhood of trouble at a gig where the average punter is a house music fan aged 20 as opposed to a 90's brit-pop/rock fan aged 45.
Different demographics require different approaches to security and crowd control, and they didn't get them in the Phoenix Park over the weekend.Megan Gorgeous Pidgin wrote: »I speak with the benefit of 20 plus years in the industry....The guys working these events are the dregs of the security industry
But they're also the cheapest to hire and outsource the work to. It's not difficult to see where the incentive to skimp on costs is here. Security costs are low, everything is nice and legal and above board, and everybody's got their Fetac level 4 qualification so nobody can point any blame at the promoter, and everything's fine as long as no trouble flares up. Once it does though, a ten euro an hour scumbag with no industry experience and a cert that isn't worth the paper it's printed on won't be able to do anything to improve the situation. At best he'll do nothing, and depending on his attitude and mentality, he might actually make things worse.
The law as it stands in this area is a disaster waiting to happen.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »
The law as it stands in this area is a disaster waiting to happen.
It pretty much happened with this gig and its only by the grace of God that things weren't worse.
I've a good mate who works these outdoor gigs, he's excellent ~ an old time bouncer. But they're few and far between because they cost money.
He's offered me work, a lot of work. But he knows my form too, I won't work with the muppets his company hires.0 -
One more thing, that i forgot to add, EVERY decent (or half decent) security guy would have been working his regular pub/club on the Saturday night, that's the place that pays the bills for 52 weeks of the year.
If any of these decent guys were available and worked then it would have been the Thursday (Roses) or Sunday (SnowPatrol).
Is it a conincidence that all the crap happened on the Saturday?
Just one more thing to throw out there0 -
One more thing, that i forgot to add, EVERY decent (or half decent) security guy would have been working his regular pub/club on the Saturday night, that's the place that pays the bills for 52 weeks of the year.
If any of these decent guys were available and worked then it would have been the Thursday (Roses) or Sunday (SnowPatrol).
Is it a conincidence that all the crap happened on the Saturday?
Just one more thing to throw out there
If you see any of the vids/pics or talk to people who were there, the security guards weren't in bunches so one lad on his own isn't going to jump into a fight with 5-6 people and risk getting the **** kicked out of him or stabbed for €150.
The security were there to tell people to take their girlfriends off their shoulders. Thats about it. A solo security guard isn't going to break up a mass brawl on his tod.0 -
If you see any of the vids/pics or talk to people who were there, the security guards weren't in bunches so one lad on his own isn't going to jump into a fight with 5-6 people and risk getting the **** kicked out of him or stabbed for €150.
The security were there to tell people to take their girlfriends off their shoulders. Thats about it. A solo security guard isn't going to break up a mass brawl on his tod.
That's exactly right, and more like 80Euro (8hrs x 10Euro per hour)
If it was me in charge, i'd have 3 teams of 10, all top guys getting paid 20Euro an hour minimum, working together, staying together, and binning the scum0 -
On the whole I had a great evening with little or no trouble. I was in the pit so there was security observing on both sides.
However I saw one fight, the male involved wasn't removed, even after he had really beaten up another guy. Can say I totally agree with those saying security were unable to deal with these situations!
My biggest gripe about the gig was the lack of taxis after. We walked to where the signs indicated there were taxis and there were none. We were told by a Garda to move along to find one. We walked for an hour and a half around the side of Phoenix Park in the dark, until we finally got one. Group of 18 year old girls, totally lost, in an unfamiliar city. Really I found this organization by MCD a complete joke!0 -
One more thing, that i forgot to add, EVERY decent (or half decent) security guy would have been working his regular pub/club on the Saturday night, that's the place that pays the bills for 52 weeks of the year.
If any of these decent guys were available and worked then it would have been the Thursday (Roses) or Sunday (SnowPatrol).
Is it a conincidence that all the crap happened on the Saturday?
Just one more thing to throw out there
Nothing to do with it whatsoever, it's just that there were a lot more scrotes there on Saturday because hip hop and **** commercial house is their thing.
Any regular gig goer could have told you in as soon as that line up was announced that it'll be a scumbag fest. It'll be the same for David Guetta in Marley Park although there'll be far more cops and security on duty for that after what happened last Saturday. I know there was plenty of nice regular kids at that gig on Saturday as well but that sort of line up always attracts a far larger than normal percentage of scumbags unfortunately.0 -
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There was more media attention about the gig on the news there few mins agoMinister for Justice Alan Shatter has told the Dáil that anti-social behaviour at last Saturday's concert in the Phoenix Park is of major concern to him.
Mr Shatter said he believes the level of security at Saturday's concert was inadequate
Gardaí say that following the concert, there were 33 arrests and 70 charges of public order, drunkenness and drug-related offences being brought before the courts.
Mr Shatter said he believes the level of security at the concert, based on the “nature” of the event, was inadequate.
Speaking in the Dáil this afternoon during topical questions, Labour TD Eamonn Maloney said he was astonished that the directors of MCD had not been arrested following the violence at the concert.
He claimed that in the UK or Europe they would have been.
Deputy Maloney accused the promoters of being involved in a PR campagn to disclaim responsibility for what had happened.
He told the Dáil that the controversy reminded him of the 1981 Stardust tragedy where no one was ultimately found responsible for what had happened.
Deputy Maloney said MCD should not be awarded any more concert licences.0 -
Furious-Red wrote: »There was more media attention about the gig on the news there few mins ago
This story doesn't seem to show any signs of going away. Hopefully this won't be the beginning of the end for large outdoor gigs.0 -
Completely agree with the statement about them not getting any more licences.
They have been running festivals for several years now, failed to learn from experience and each time they try to pass the blame to someone else whether it be security, the gardai or the people attending the festivals.
Enough is enough.0 -
if people could please read this article i would be very grateful
http://thismachinewillnotcommunicate.wordpress.com/2012/07/11/a-quick-word-on-saturday-night/0 -
What the f@ck are they doing letting a concert take place beside a deer sanctuary and a zoo ? It's madness0
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Could the stab victims sue MCD?
Could MCD have difficulties renewing their insurances?0 -
Slideshowbob wrote: »Could the stab victims sue MCD?
Could MCD have difficulties renewing their insurances?
It could go against them.
Problem with security on MCD events is that a large portion of it is out sourced to a Northern company.
Iv seen them in Dublin last summer recruiting anybody they can get their hands on.
They supply kids in bibs!!0 -
Its unfortunate that what happened at the weekend might give them a kick up the h*le that they deserve after so many bad experiences at gigs (Oasis , Oxegen over the years etc)
If its needed "Airport Style Security" i would welcome that tbh , i know it might mean longer queing etc but if that meant less antics at gigs id be delighted .
Its just sad it has come to this , the fact people cant go to gigs these days without "sometimes" worrying about certain people at the gig (especially gig outdoor shows)0 -
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Furious-Red wrote: »If its needed "Airport Style Security" i would welcome that tbh , i know it might mean longer queing etc but if that meant less antics at gigs id be delighted .
Its just sad it has come to this , the fact people cant go to gigs these days without "sometimes" worrying about certain people at the gig (especially gig outdoor shows)
How many of those would you need for a gig with 45,000?0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9sEq206wEo
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