STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

wreckless · 23-06-2012 11:00pm

on the insulation, the installer should know best, but we had ours fully packed out behind with rockwool anyway afaik

darkhorse · 23-06-2012 11:20pm

trevorbrady wrote: »

thanks again stove fan. I'll get a good fire going tonight and make sure the oil boiler is off and see how things pan out.

It feels weird lighting a fire in the middle of June :eek:

Hi,

Just want to tell you that I was thinking to myself, how weird is it to have a big fire going near the last week in June, literally 30 seconds before I read your post.

Stove Fan · 24-06-2012 12:20am

trevorbrady wrote: »

I didn't get around to it last night but the stove is stocked up and a good wood fire burning since about 4.30 this afternoon. As I type, the radiators are only barely warm (like just gone off cold) in the top inch only. The rest of the radiators are basically cold.

We also drew a bath for the little one, no hot water from the stove, again, just barely off cold. Resorted to boiling kettles to heat up the bath...

There has been no over flow out the eave outlet as of yet. The oil boiler is fully off and won't kick in on the timer at all so the stove is responsible for any heat/water/overflowing issues, should there be any

Hi, could you post up some pictures of your stoves plumbing:) Was the water warm in the small feed/expansion tank? What is your pump speed set too for the stove? 2or3?
Where is your pipe stat located and did the pipe heat up and the stat switch on the pump? What is the pipe stat temp set at?
The photos may well help.
The heat must be going somewhere. Is the wood well dry and well loaded and roaring for a good hour? Is the thermostat on full on the rear of the stove? Does the chimney draw well?

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 24-06-2012 12:30am

emg74 wrote: »

Finally popping up some pics of the Stratford EB12 Stove - We have it installed about 10days at this stage & I am so happy with it.

I can't believe the heat in the rads without having a massive fire on. To be honest I don't think it uses much more fuel than we used to use with our old stove.

We have done a calculation of the cost and at the minute the stove is costing us about €1600 (incl cost of stove, new hearth, plumber minus what we got from sale of old stove).

We have loads of hot water and there is lots of heat in the radiators (even on the days I am working and without a fire till about 6.30pm).

Thanks again Stove Fan for your advice, it was invaluable. Found out that the stat is on the flow pipe in the attic but we are going to move it to the pipe coming from the cylinder so that the priority goes to getting the cylinder hot first

Excellent result, At least you'll have a house warm all over now:D

Glad I was of help, excellent:D. It, looks very well in the brick fireplace.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 24-06-2012 12:45am

jack12a wrote: »

Hello all,

I am going to replace my 16" open fire with a non boiler inset stove my room requires approx 5kw to heat it, I have narrowed my choice down to 2 makes the clearview vision inset 5kw or woodwarm 4k or 6.5kw I would be grateful for any advice on these inset stoves.
Also I intend to install a 6" 316 flexi liner into a 8" clay liner the house is 2 story and the chimney is straight and 9mts high and in the middle of the house, Q would there enough room between flexi liner and clay liner to insulate. or would it be ok to leave it uninsulated.

Regards

To be honest they are both excellent makes:) Clearview is probably the more known but woodwarm is cheaper but still made to a great quality standard but with the same features as the clearview inserts. It really depends on which you prefer!

Myself it would be the woodwarm fireview 6.5kw as your room requires 5kw so the 4kw would be too small of an output.
See a woodwarm 6.5kw insert burning here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs
Clearview vision burning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkINRoIyon4
If you were interested in a boiler version they do boiler options on the woodwarm 6.5kw as well, but it would need to be sized/verified to see if it was large enough to heat your rads. Or another boiler stove.

It really isn't generally necessary to insulate around the flue liner on your house as the chimney is internal and not built on an end wall externally.
If you can insulate it though, why not:) Use vermiculite.

Have a look at www.whatstove.co.uk for reviews of clearview and woodwarm.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 24-06-2012 12:54am

jbyrne10 wrote: »

Hi,

Just want to tell you that I was thinking to myself, how weird is it to have a big fire going near the last week in June, literally 30 seconds before I read your post.

Certainly is:eek: Lit our stove this afternoon, just ticking over to get the 5 rads warm and take the slight coolness off the house.
Haven't lit it much this month though but still light it sometimes, more for the cheery glow on a rainy/wet day:D

Stove Fan:)

jack12a · 24-06-2012 1:03pm

hello Stove Fan,

Thanks for your advice it is as always top drawer, as you say woodwarm 6.5kw looks a super inset stove, the issue I have with it is as follows my existing fireplace has a v nice wood surround (which I hope to retain) with a standard 920mm X 920mm fire back with will be replaced by a black marble one, the woodwarm is 690mm h X 775mm w which would bring it very close to wood surround, the clearview is 570mm h X 560mm w which would give a bit more space between stove and surround, your view on this would be helpful,

Regarding flexi liner would vermiculite be easy to install between flexi and clay liner as there would be only 1" all round between them over a 9 meter chimney which has had a good bit of use over 20yrs, your advice that I can use flexi liner with out insulating leaves me with a plan B.

One more Q I think clearview do not recommend stove is in cased in insulation would that be a drawback to getting this stove ??.

Regards

Stove Fan · 24-06-2012 4:56pm

jack12a wrote: »

hello Stove Fan,

Thanks for your advice it is as always top drawer, as you say woodwarm 6.5kw looks a super inset stove, the issue I have with it is as follows my existing fireplace has a v nice wood surround (which I hope to retain) with a standard 920mm X 920mm fire back with will be replaced by a black marble one, the woodwarm is 690mm h X 775mm w which would bring it very close to wood surround, the clearview is 570mm h X 560mm w which would give a bit more space between stove and surround, your view on this would be helpful,

Regarding flexi liner would vermiculite be easy to install between flexi and clay liner as there would be only 1" all round between them over a 9 meter chimney which has had a good bit of use over 20yrs, your advice that I can use flexi liner with out insulating leaves me with a plan B.

One more Q I think clearview do not recommend stove is in cased in insulation would that be a drawback to getting this stove ??.

Regards

Hi, I have looked at the installation instructions for the fireview 6.5kw
http://www.woodwarm.co.uk/Fireview%20Insets%20Models%20M47.pdf
and it would seem they quote 15 inches away from anything combustible:(.

Personally I would send an email or phone them and ask what the minimum clearance is with the insert stove to a wooden fire surround:) 15 inches seems a long way away, best to ask them to confirm.

I would do the same with clearview and ask them about backfilling with vermiculite.

With regards to backfilling the flue your clay liner is probably 8 inches internal so 2 inches difference. The vermiculite should pour down realatively easy providing it's not windy. Again it's really up to you if you want to backfill the chimney.

Stove Fan:)

jack12a · 24-06-2012 5:36pm

Hello stove Fan,

I will take all your advice on board best to contact makers first to avoid costly mistakes.

Regards

Mcorriga · 25-06-2012 10:51pm

Hi all,(Including Stovefan!!)

Have currently started a new build and am planning on installing two stoves.

The stoves i am thinking of getting are the

Morso squirrel and a Stockton 8 double sided stove

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/morso-stoves/morso-squirrel-cleanheat-stove.html

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/stovax-stockton/stovax-stockton-8-stove.html

The price I am being quoted for both are 750 and 1400

i was wondering if anybody has any opinion on the above stoves and if they could recommended an alternative if they had a choice

I really need to decide on the double sided stove soon as this will affect the internal block work.

Also how much room should be leave to either side of the stove so that we get maximum convection?
Also how much of the flue would people recommend to be exposed before going into the chimney

Thanks all

Stove Fan · 26-06-2012 12:33pm

Mcorriga wrote: »

Hi all,(Including Stovefan!!)

Have currently started a new build and am planning on installing two stoves.

The stoves i am thinking of getting are the

Morso squirrel and a Stockton 8 double sided stove

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/morso-stoves/morso-squirrel-cleanheat-stove.html

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/stovax-stockton/stovax-stockton-8-stove.html

The price I am being quoted for both are 750 and 1400

i was wondering if anybody has any opinion on the above stoves and if they could recommended an alternative if they had a choice

I really need to decide on the double sided stove soon as this will affect the internal block work.

Also how much room should be leave to either side of the stove so that we get maximum convection?
Also how much of the flue would people recommend to be exposed before going into the chimney

Thanks all

Hi the morso squirrel is a superb stove, just be aware the cleanheat model can't be fully closed down as to make it clean burning the air supply to the fire can't be fully closed, so may not stay in overnight as the standard version. If you don't need a cleanburning squirrel consider the standard version.

With regards to the stovax stockton double sided I personally dont rate stovax. It's really a midrange stove. A bit like the hunter herald double sided. The stovax is better than hunter though.

Consider a woodwarm double sided even though it's quite a bit dearer.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/double-sided-range/theversatilityofthefireviewdoublesidedrange.ashx An 8kw stove is quite a big beastie. We have an 8kw stove with wraparound boiler to heat our 100sqm detatched bungalow. up to 7.6kw to water. 2-3kw to room. Room with stove is 28sqm with 2.75m ceiling height.

Stove Fan:)

Mcorriga · 26-06-2012 9:59pm

thanks stovefan for your suggestions, will look into the woodwarm I see they sell them in a few locations in Ireland

As for the 8kw stove it is heating a large open plan area of 4.6m x 10.7mx 2.7m. also from this room you can open into a large conservotory 3.8 x5.8 x 3.5...All the rooms will be well insulated...Do you think 8kw will be enough??

Gaffs89 · 26-06-2012 10:01pm

Ok lads , need some help.I'm thinking of getting a non boiler stove. The room is 17ft wide 16.5 ft long and 8ft high, the online calculators are saying I need a 5kw , but 2 local stores have both said I need 8kw. Are they wrong?
Thanks
Gaffs

Stove Fan · 26-06-2012 10:25pm

Mcorriga wrote: »

thanks stovefan for your suggestions, will look into the woodwarm I see they sell them in a few locations in Ireland

As for the 8kw stove it is heating a large open plan area of 4.6m x 10.7mx 2.7m. also from this room you can open into a large conservotory 3.8 x5.8 x 3.5...All the rooms will be well insulated...Do you think 8kw will be enough??

Hi, it's very hard to say what output stove should heat the space without knowing what insulation spec the property is being built too.

Personally I would guess anything from 8kw to 12kw. The online stove heat calculaters list 10kw for main room and 6kw for the conservatory.

They do seem to air on the cautious side and seem to over specify the heat output needed.

Your provisional BER should give you the heat loss of the main room and conservatory or your architect may be able to work it out.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 26-06-2012 10:39pm

Gaffs89 wrote: »

Ok lads , need some help.I'm thinking of getting a non boiler stove. The room is 17ft wide 16.5 ft long and 8ft high, the online calculators are saying I need a 5kw , but 2 local stores have both said I need 8kw. Are they wrong?
Thanks
Gaffs

We have a 28 square metre living room with an 8ft 6 heigh ceiling. Double door and single exterior door, both double glazed.
New rear extension with 70mm cavity insulation plus 38mm kingspan backed with 12mm plasterboard internal drylining.
Roof insulation only 8 inches. 6inch floor insulation.

Personally I find a 3kw output from our boiler stove more than adequate even when we had that freezing cold spell the winter before.

Personally I think you will be fine at 5kw unless the room is north facing, stone built, no insulation, drafty etc:D.

Stove Fan:)

Gaffs89 · 26-06-2012 10:48pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Gaffs89 wrote: »

Ok lads , need some help.I'm thinking of getting a non boiler stove. The room is 17ft wide 16.5 ft long and 8ft high, the online calculators are saying I need a 5kw , but 2 local stores have both said I need 8kw. Are they wrong?
Thanks
Gaffs

We have a 28 square metre living room with an 8ft 6 heigh ceiling. Double door and single exterior door, both double glazed.
New rear extension with 70mm cavity insulation plus 38mm kingspan backed with 12mm plasterboard internal drylining.
Roof insulation only 8 inches. 6inch floor insulation.

Personally I find a 3kw output from our boiler stove more than adequate even when we had that freezing cold spell the winter before.

Personally I think you will be fine at 5kw unless the room is north facing, stone built, no insulation, drafty etc:D.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for the quick reply.The house is only 12 years old , insulated per regulations at the time,block built and east facing.I'll start looking at 5kw ones.Thanks again.

major deegan · 27-06-2012 8:41am

Hi stove fan, just wanted to get your valued opinion on this one.Wanted to fit a boiler stove to dormer house with total of 21 rads with 7 of those being doubles and divided into 3 zones,the upstair zone being seldom used.I had a horseflame 26kw recomended to me and also a blasket 21kw.Do you think either of these are sufficient considering i would only use 2 zones together at any given time.If you have any recomendations of your own i'd greatly appreciate it and thanks very much for your input.

Stove Fan · 28-06-2012 12:43pm

major deegan wrote: »

Hi stove fan, just wanted to get your valued opinion on this one.Wanted to fit a boiler stove to dormer house with total of 21 rads with 7 of those being doubles and divided into 3 zones,the upstair zone being seldom used.I had a horseflame 26kw recomended to me and also a blasket 21kw.Do you think either of these are sufficient considering i would only use 2 zones together at any given time.If you have any recomendations of your own i'd greatly appreciate it and thanks very much for your input.

Hi, the horseflame produces 10kw to room and 16kw to water.

see http://www.irelandstoves.ie/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=131

The blasket produces 6kw to room and 15kw to water.

http://www.thestoveshop.ie/modules/store/The-Henley-Blasket-21kW_P163226.cfm

Personally though I would measure the rads you definately want to heat on the 2 zones plus the 3rd zone seperate and I will give better advice:)

Please make sure to measure the room the stove is going into as you dont want to roast with a too high room heat output from the stove.

I quite like the aarrow ecoboiler range.
The EB20 may be suitable depending on room heat requirements.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb20-he.html
Or EB16.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb16-he.html

Or the older designed TF90 although I wouldn't really reccommend it:rolleyes: Prefer the newer models for reliability and better features.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/stratford-tf90b-boiler-stove.html It's apparently the most powerfull and has a low room output.

Stove Fan:)

major deegan · 28-06-2012 9:31pm

Thanks for the reply,I had'nt considered the room the stove will be situated which is the kitchen/dining and measures 24 ft x 16 ft and 8 ft ceilings.The 3 zones i mentioned before are broke up as follows, zone 1 is downstairs kit,L/r and hall and has 1 7ft dbl,2 3ft dbl,1 2ft dbl and 4 3ft singles....zone 2 downstairs bedrooms and has 2 3ft dbl,1 2ft dbl, 1 4ft single and 1 2ft single.....zone 3 is upstairs and consists of 6 3ft singles,1 5ft single and 1 2ft single,this is the zone that's seldom used.I currently never run 3 zones together and whenever i run the upstairs zone it wold be on it's own.Hope you're able to make that out and see what you think.Once again thanks for your time and much valued informaton on here.

Stove Fan · 28-06-2012 11:01pm

major deegan wrote: »

Thanks for the reply,I had'nt considered the room the stove will be situated which is the kitchen/dining and measures 24 ft x 16 ft and 8 ft ceilings.The 3 zones i mentioned before are broke up as follows, zone 1 is downstairs kit,L/r and hall and has 1 7ft dbl,2 3ft dbl,1 2ft dbl and 4 3ft singles....zone 2 downstairs bedrooms and has 2 3ft dbl,1 2ft dbl, 1 4ft single and 1 2ft single.....zone 3 is upstairs and consists of 6 3ft singles,1 5ft single and 1 2ft single,this is the zone that's seldom used.I currently never run 3 zones together and whenever i run the upstairs zone it wold be on it's own.Hope you're able to make that out and see what you think.Once again thanks for your time and much valued informaton on here.

Hi I have calculated the boiler output of Zone 1 and 2 and the boiler output needed is around 18kw to water.

The room requires around 6.2kw to heat it based on average insulation.

None of the stoves fit the bill exactly except the Stratford TF90 which gives only 4.5kw to the room. (would need a rad on in here to make up the difference) and produces a max of 24kw, so in theory should heat everything. I dont rate them though:(

Personally though the next best option is the blasket as it produces 6kw to room and 15 kw to water but wouldn't heat all the rads on zone 1&2. You would need to turn 2-3 off. I have no experiance of the blasket though:(

If your Kitchen/diner has several doors radiating off for the EB16 or the heat can spread through double doors to upstairs on the EB20 you may get away with the EB16 or the EB20.
Just make sure though you get a second opinion before ordering as I don't want to roast you out in the room with stove.

Stove Fan:)

major deegan · 29-06-2012 7:56am

Thanks for that stove fan,your calculations and info will be a great help,now i'll have a fair idea what my requirements are . Much appreciated.

TopTec · 29-06-2012 10:56am

Good Morning all,

I had my kitchen chimney lined ready to fit a reconditioned Donard Superstar. The instructions state a measurement of 980mm from floor to centre of flue opening. The opening has been prepared exactly to this measurement. Now I have had the cooker delivered and find that the measurement is infact 1000mm!

That extra 20mm will mean a slight fall of 20mm from the back cowling of the cooker into the flue opening. The flue draws very well and my question is-

Will this slight fall be acceptable or do I need to start from scratch again which would entail either digging out a lowered hearth or ripping out the chimney breast again.

TT

Stove Fan · 29-06-2012 12:27pm

TopTec wrote: »

Good Morning all,

I had my kitchen chimney lined ready to fit a reconditioned Donard Superstar. The instructions state a measurement of 980mm from floor to centre of flue opening. The opening has been prepared exactly to this measurement. Now I have had the cooker delivered and find that the measurement is infact 1000mm!

That extra 20mm will mean a slight fall of 20mm from the back cowling of the cooker into the flue opening. The flue draws very well and my question is-

Will this slight fall be acceptable or do I need to start from scratch again which would entail either digging out a lowered hearth or ripping out the chimney breast again.

TT

As this flue is lined presumably with stainless flexible liner this horizontal run dipping could cause soot to gather in the flue:(. Hence causing a restriction once soot gathered. Max horizontal flue length of 150mm.

Personally I would redo the fluing ideally using the top exit on the flue soot box using a 45degree bend with soot door and use vitreous enameled pipe through the wall to connect to the stainless steel flexible flue liner.

With solid fuel and all burning appliances it's wise to install them 100% properly due to carbon monoxide etc. Not worth the risk. Buy a Co alarm too:)

Stove Fan:)

isaos · 30-06-2012 9:04am

Stove Fan wrote: »

I myself if money wasn't tight I would fully line to the top with a stainless steel flexible liner. This would give a good draw to the stove, make cleaning easier and avoid any risks of tar leaking out at the rigid pipe to clay liner adapter. This adapter is crucial to get a good seal to the base of the liners otherwise tar can leak out. Sometimes it's not possible to install due to the builder supporting the clay liners on concrete lintels. You need a flat base to get a good seal. If you look up your chimney you will see if it's flat.
Lining is the better choice:)

Stove Fan:)

Hello Stove Fan, I am jumping on this post as we are thinking of installing a Stanley Oisin (non boiler, the radiators are connected to the existing and highly efficient oil-fuelled Stanley range on the other side of the house). This is for extra comfort in case Electricity would fail! (and the fireplace is not very safe as it is).

It is an old Kerry house built c. 1910 and we wish to fully line the chimney, which comes straight from the gable wall. Could you explain what you mean by " Sometimes it's not possible to install due to the builder supporting the clay liners on concrete lintels"?

Thank you so much, your posts are so helpful.

AnCiotog · 30-06-2012 9:47am

I was told yesterday that Stanley stoves are now made in China. Can anyone confirm, and if they are are they still as high quality as before? We're hoping to get one to use in our sitting room and that will drive rads in the house too.

Stove Fan · 30-06-2012 12:31pm

isaos wrote: »

Hello Stove Fan, I am jumping on this post as we are thinking of installing a Stanley Oisin (non boiler, the radiators are connected to the existing and highly efficient oil-fuelled Stanley range on the other side of the house). This is for extra comfort in case Electricity would fail! (and the fireplace is not very safe as it is).

It is an old Kerry house built c. 1910 and we wish to fully line the chimney, which comes straight from the gable wall. Could you explain what you mean by " Sometimes it's not possible to install due to the builder supporting the clay liners on concrete lintels"? Thank you so much, your posts are so helpful.

Hi, a bit of confusion here. The concrete lintels were mentioned as in more modern homes with clay lined flues the builder sometimes used concrete lintels to support them, rather than a flue gatherer base. This then proved impossible to install a clay liner adapter to join the stove pipe to clay lined flue as the lintels were in the way to get a tar tight seal. This doesn't apply to your chimney:)

As your home was built in 1910, it/s very unlikely you will have any issues as your chimney won't be built with clay liners unless it was fully rebuilt later.

Have a look up the chimney if it's just brick/stone you should have no problems lining it:D. If on an external gable end wall I would advice sweep chimney first, liner down, build closure plate, to backfill around liner with vermiculite for insulation.

I'm in County Kerry too:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 30-06-2012 12:47pm

AnCiotog wrote: »

I was told yesterday that Stanley stoves are now made in China. Can anyone confirm, and if they are are they still as high quality as before? We're hoping to get one to use in our sitting room and that will drive rads in the house too.

According to the video they are Designed tested and made at their Waterford factory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LK9SMjX_3_E#!

It would of been nice in the video if they showed the castings being cast.

I personally would ask them direct:).

I have seen a stanley erin non boiler recently and it looked fine on a quick glance but could see the glow of the fire through the door seal in parts. They liked the stove and were delighted with it for heat output compared to the previous open fire. The glass was rather dirty. They burnt turf and wood.

Stove Fan:)

confusedeire · 01-07-2012 2:01pm

hi

i was looking in to get one of these stoves to replace my open gas fire. i was just wondering what yer thoughts were on this stove. when installing i will be relining the chimney

isaos · 01-07-2012 2:45pm

Thanks a mill for your answer! Someone was saying that we should insulate to stop the vibration coming from the pipe, is that also one of the roles of vermiculite?
We are in Kenmare, sunny and warm Kerry....

Stove Fan · 01-07-2012 2:56pm

isaos wrote: »

Thanks a mill for your answer! Someone was saying that we should insulate to stop the vibration coming from the pipe, is that also one of the roles of vermiculite?
We are in Kenmare, sunny and warm Kerry....

Trust me you will have no vibration from the flexible flue liner even without vermiculite insulation. Adding the insulation is a better job though and would certainly use it on an old chimney or a chimney on an external wall.

Oh yes our summer, drissly/wet here near Castleisland:rolleyes: We have got our fire going

Stove Fan:)

cordni · 02-07-2012 8:21pm

Hi there, I am looking for a multifuel boiler stove, a small freestanding variety, if possible I would like to slot it into the existing fireplace but I appreciate I may not be able to do this. My sitting room is approximately 16 ft by 8 ft.

There are the following radiators in the house

4 double radiators 1200 x 450 (one of these is in the sitting room so I guess I wouldnt need to heat that one).

2 double radiators 900 x 450

2 double radiators 400 x 450

1 x towel rail

I am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible but also don't want something that is going to need replacing in a few years.

I have no idea what KW value I should be looking for. Would really appreciate any help anyone could give me.

Thanks in advance

Stove Fan · 02-07-2012 9:59pm

cordni wrote: »

Hi there, I am looking for a multifuel boiler stove, a small freestanding variety, if possible I would like to slot it into the existing fireplace but I appreciate I may not be able to do this. My sitting room is approximately 16 ft by 8 ft.

There are the following radiators in the house

4 double radiators 1200 x 450 (one of these is in the sitting room so I guess I wouldnt need to heat that one).

2 double radiators 900 x 450

2 double radiators 400 x 450

1 x towel rail

I am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible but also don't want something that is going to need replacing in a few years.

I have no idea what KW value I should be looking for. Would really appreciate any help anyone could give me.

Thanks in advance

Hi your looking for a back boiler of around 12kw. Your room requires around 2kw to heat 16ft X 8ft X 8ft room.

As your fireplace I presume is a standard sized open fire then you couldn't have a freestanding stove placed in the opening as you need 150mm clearance either side of the stove and at least 300mm above. This is to allow air to circulate air around the stove in the opening to dissipate the heat and to comply with building regs and manufacturers instructions.

This is an older model Arrow boiler stove. It has a low room heat output:D http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/catalog/aarrow-stratford-ti40b-inset-multifuel-woodburning-stove-p-568.html This is to show what it looks like, the price may well be cheaper elsewhere.

There is the Esse 350 Greenswitch but produces 3.6kw to room so the room with stove may get too hot unless several doors could be opened.
http://www.esse.com/multifuel-stoves/350gs/

There may be others but most boiler stoves of that size give out between 4-6kw to room:(.

Stove Fan:)

cordni · 02-07-2012 10:20pm

Thanks so much stove fan for the fantastic information. You really are great to give up so much of your time to answer our questions.

The stoves you recommended are nice but I really want the freestanding stove - personally I like the morso squirrel type. I understand I will have to get the fireplace surround taken out... is it possible then to go with something like the morso (really like it but hope to find something cheaper, budget is tight)

Thanks again for your fantastic help. At least I now know what KW I need

Sorry forgot to add, double doors from sitting room into a kitchen diner which is generally cold even with central heating on, so I think that room will be happy with the extra heat if output is a little high in sitting room

Thanks again

Stove Fan · 02-07-2012 10:57pm

cordni wrote: »

Thanks so much stove fan for the fantastic information. You really are great to give up so much of your time to answer our questions.

The stoves you recommended are nice but I really want the freestanding stove - personally I like the morso squirrel type. I understand I will have to get the fireplace surround taken out... is it possible then to go with something like the morso (really like it but hope to find something cheaper, budget is tight)

Thanks again for your fantastic help. At least I now know what KW I need

Sorry forgot to add, double doors from sitting room into a kitchen diner which is generally cold even with central heating on, so I think that room will be happy with the extra heat if output is a little high in sitting room Thanks again

No problem, I like to help if I can:D Morso are a great stove but very few large boiler versions. The morso is very small, so for more heat and boiler output needs to be bigger. Morso is expensive if on a budget:eek:

If you have an open fire and the house is not that old you can only either install an inset stove or have the freestanding stove infront of the old open fire opening.
If the house is old you may be able to enlarge the old open fire opening to place a freestanding stove into.

What style stove are you after? This may suit as you have the double doors. http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb12-he.html I would doubt it produces 6kw to the room considering it's small size? Maybee other owners on here could confirm if it produces 6kw to room:).

Stove Fan:)

cordni · 02-07-2012 11:05pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

No problem, I like to help if I can:D Morso are a great stove but very few large boiler versions. The morso is very small, so for more heat and boiler output needs to be bigger. Morso is expensive if on a budget:eek:

If you have an open fire and the house is not that old you can only either install an inset stove or have the freestanding stove infront of the old open fire opening.
If the house is old you may be able to enlarge the old open fire opening to place a freestanding stove into.

What style stove are you after? This may suit as you have the double doors. http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb12-he.html I would doubt it produces 6kw to the room considering it's small size? Maybee other owners on here could confirm if it produces 6kw to room:).

Stove Fan:)

Hi Stove Fan, once again thanks for the fantastic help. yes what I would ideally like to do is have a stove sit in front of the existing fire opening. My house is 7 years old. I really like the stove you linked to. Just need to get on with saving now. I know it will be so worth it in the long run

Stove Fan · 03-07-2012 2:02pm

cordni wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan, once again thanks for the fantastic help. yes what I would ideally like to do is have a stove sit in front of the existing fire opening. My house is 7 years old. I really like the stove you linked to. Just need to get on with saving now. I know it will be so worth it in the long run

Sitting the stove infront of the chimney is definately fine providing the hearth size it sits on is to the stove manufacturers instructions.

Normally 225-300mm infront and 150mm each side.

You may not need to line the chimney being a new house so should have a clay liner, although if budget isn't an option I would advice lining the chimney being a boiler stove due to possible condensation.

The liner is the better job. You could see how it went without and always retrofit a liner.

You will like a stove.
Stove Fan:)

cordni · 07-07-2012 11:57am

Hi Again Stove Fan. i have had somebody around to quote on installing a boiler stove connected to radiators. It transpires my system is a closed system so would end up being very costly to install. I have now decided to just go with a non boiler stove in the sitting room. I want to get one that will heat the sitting room which has double doors into kitchen diner, so hoping to heat that also. Could you advise what kind of KW stove I would need. Thanks in advance

Stove Fan · 07-07-2012 12:44pm

cordni wrote: »

Hi Again Stove Fan. i have had somebody around to quote on installing a boiler stove connected to radiators. It transpires my system is a closed system so would end up being very costly to install. I have now decided to just go with a non boiler stove in the sitting room. I want to get one that will heat the sitting room which has double doors into kitchen diner, so hoping to heat that also. Could you advise what kind of KW stove I would need. Thanks in advance

Hi, how unfortunate with the closed heating system:( There are a few boiler stoves that can be plumbed into a sealed system but they do cost far more.

Your sitting room requires around 2kw to heat it. If your kitchen diner is a similar size room or slightly bigger I would say a 5kw stove would be ideal.

Consider the morso squirrel or the charnwood island 1

http://morso.co.uk/product/morso-1410/

http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/island-i.aspx

Both are superb stoves but myself I would have the dearer charnwood.

Or if you prefer more simple style. Woodwarm slender 5kw.

http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-slender-range/5kwfireview.ashx

The big plus with the charnwood is if your house is very airtight it may need an additional room wall vent if the house has an air permability test report of less than 5.0m3/h.m2. If your home hasn't been tested for this then it's unlikely to need additional ventilation with a stove rated under 5kw output. The charnwood has an external air option:) .

Air permeability above > 5.0m³/h.m²
550mm² ventilation for each kW above 5kW
Air permeability ≤ 5.0m³/h.m²
550mm² ventilation for each kW

Stove Fan:)

cordni · 07-07-2012 12:56pm

Thanks much Stove Fan you have been so helpful. From the beginning I have been drawn to the morso, so I think that might be the one. The fireview is a very nice looking stove also. Im off to search the net for a deal on either one of those. Thanks again

Rathvarna · 08-07-2012 5:32pm

Hi All & Stove Fan.. Apologies for jumping into the middle of this post….I’m a Newbie & it’s my first attempt,:eek: so please be kind. Hope anyone can help with the following…
I am in the process of installing a Stratford eb12he into an existing oil fired Ch system (firebird super Q 50/82). I have some experience installing CH in the Uk but not stoves and not as a linked system. I like to keep thing as simple as possible, the idea is oil is used first in the morning (timed) then at some point in the day the Stratford is lit and Valhalla, hot water and CH all day long. We live in a modest new built bungalow (circa 10 yrs old) it is well insulated etc etc I cannot envisage a scenario where both stove and boiler will be required at the same time.
Here’s some questions I cannot get my head around. Must the heat sink rad be so positioned that it is above the height of the stove. Can I connect the Stratford using 2 cross flow tapings (this seems more logical in a linked sys) or must the stove be connected using all 4 tapings, in which case where is the Firebird connected in the circuit to supply heat to both HW and CH and finally, one pump or two ?.
Any experience suggestions / opinions greatly appreciated, also if anybody can direct me to a site with schematic’s etc this would also help.
We live in the north west, I know it’s a tad closer to the Artic Circle than our cousins “down south” but no way will I need both the oil and Stove kicking out Btu’s at the same time. This is about weaning myself off the oil dependency and having a choice.
Regards

Stove Fan · 08-07-2012 5:52pm

Rathvarna wrote: »

Hi All & Stove Fan.. Apologies for jumping into the middle of this post….I’m a Newbie & it’s my first attempt,:eek: so please be kind. Hope anyone can help with the following…
I am in the process of installing a Stratford eb12he into an existing oil fired Ch system (firebird super Q 50/82). I have some experience installing CH in the Uk but not stoves and not as a linked system. I like to keep thing as simple as possible, the idea is oil is used first in the morning (timed) then at some point in the day the Stratford is lit and Valhalla, hot water and CH all day long. We live in a modest new built bungalow (circa 10 yrs old) it is well insulated etc etc I cannot envisage a scenario where both stove and boiler will be required at the same time.
Here’s some questions I cannot get my head around. Must the heat sink rad be so positioned that it is above the height of the stove. Can I connect the Stratford using 2 cross flow tapings (this seems more logical in a linked sys) or must the stove be connected using all 4 tapings, in which case where is the Firebird connected in the circuit to supply heat to both HW and CH and finally, one pump or two ?.
Any experience suggestions / opinions greatly appreciated, also if anybody can direct me to a site with schematic’s etc this would also help.
We live in the north west, I know it’s a tad closer to the Artic Circle than our cousins “down south” but no way will I need both the oil and Stove kicking out Btu’s at the same time. This is about weaning myself off the oil dependency and having a choice.
Regards

Hi, it's very hard/dangerous to advice fully when we haven't seen your system layout. The basics are:

Fully open vented system for stove and oil boiler. Is your oil boiler open vented with small tank in loft next to a big one? This is vital for safety.

There are two ways it can be plumbed either using just 2 boiler outlets or using all 4.

I prefer using all 4. One set of 1 inch pipes going to the new twin coil cylinder in the hotpress and reducing to 3/4 to the feed and expansion tank.. The hot water cylinder usually heats by gravity as with a gravity hot water system the hot water cylinder is usually above the stove either in loft or first floor if house.

The second set of 3/4 pipes connect into the rad circuit.

The other way is to use just 2 boiler outlets and run them to the cylinder again in 1 inch copper, then reduce to 3/4 pipework to the feed and expansion tank. The pipework to the rads will branch off in 3/4 from the main 1 inch pipes to the rads.

Each of these will have a gravity radiator plumbed in to dissipate heat in the event of a powercut.

I would seriously advice you to bring a plumber in to at least work with you, if not fully install:).
It isn't a straightforward job espeacially if the cylinder is downstairs as an overheat situation has to be designed into the system to keep you safe.
If any doubt employ a plumber.

Stove Fan:).

Rathvarna · 08-07-2012 7:19pm

thanks Stove Fan,
The oil is fully open vented, the expansion tank and house water tank are in the loft directly above the HW cylinder and an ideal location for the Stratford. The base of the hw cylinder is above the top of the Stratford by 15 inch and apprx two metres away (the Sratford is not in yet nor will it be until this is right). I intended on a new expansion tank for the oil boiler but with both expantion tanks on the same sys how do you get a common water level in both ?. I was pondering on one larger expansion tank to cope with both, the oil boiler being aprox six/eight metres away (as the crow flies) floor mounted and of course the present vent and feed for the oil are with the hw cylinder in the press. I have been asking at local merchants for a good plumber but so far I have no info on anybody with experiance with "Linked Systems" however early days yet.

Again may thanks fory our reply

Lorenzo Bananaflax · 08-07-2012 9:41pm

I'm sorry for just jumping in here, but I have just joined and I am still trying to work it all out...

I'm needing some advice (help)... I read the J regs and decided to build a 5" thick concrete plinth 840mm square... right up against a newly opened chimney. The problem is that the chimney opening is too bloody small for the stove I wanted and it has one of those "combined lintels" that only just spans the opening thanks to previous works by folks unknown... Anyhow I was wondering if it is ok:

To line the chimney (8m) with a 6" 904/904 liner and instead of a register plate, have the liner protruding through the bricked-up opening (surround it with fire cement and finish with heat plaster?) and have it entering straight into the back opening of my stove? The horizontal is maybe 2" and into the stove connector/reducer- The stove is 5" (Firefox 5CB). When attached, the stove will be 150-170mm from the bricked-up wall and there will be about 3" of flexi showing as it protrudes through the wall and enters the adapter.

Would this setup be alright? The flexi will be cemented and screwed with 316 ST's. Is it ok to surround and "close-off" using masonary, fire screed and have the liner terminated like this?

Please tell me this is alright, cause I REALLY Don't fancy trying to install a register plate in the bottom of this chimney... Thanks for any help in advance:D.

Stove Fan · 08-07-2012 10:21pm

Lorenzo Bananaflax wrote: »

I'm sorry for just jumping in here, but I have just joined and I am still trying to work it all out...
I'm needing some advice (help)... I read the J regs and decided to build a 5" thick concrete plinth 840mm square... right up against a newly opened chimney. The problem is that the chimney opening is too bloody small for the stove I wanted and it has one of those "combined lintels" that only just spans the opening thanks to previous works by folks unknown... Anyhow I was wondering if it is ok:

To line the chimney (8m) with a 6" 904/904 liner and instead of a register plate, have the liner protruding through the bricked-up opening (surround it with fire cement and finish with heat plaster?) and have it entering straight into the back opening of my stove? The horizontal is maybe 2" and into the stove connector/reducer- The stove is 5" (Firefox 5CB). When attached, the stove will be 150-170mm from the bricked-up wall and there will be about 3" of flexi showing as it protrudes through the wall and enters the adapter.

Would this setup be alright? The flexi will be cemented and screwed with 316 ST's. Is it ok to surround and "close-off" using masonary, fire screed and have the liner terminated like this?

Please tell me this is alright, cause I REALLY Don't fancy trying to install a register plate in the bottom of this chimney... Thanks for any help in advance:D.

Sounds ok, providing the liner at the base falls down to the stoves rear outlet and the horizontal run is less than 6 inches or 150mm and you can sweep the chimney through the stove. The nearer the stove to the wall the better. 3 inches away is normal, but follow stoves instructions.

You can brick up the opening and use heatproof plaster to finish around the stove. So long as anything constructed near the stove is non combustible and anything combustible is the recommended clearance to combustibles to the stoves installation instructions.

Stove Fan:)

Lorenzo Bananaflax · 08-07-2012 11:01pm

Thank you so much- I will sleep easy tonight- You are a star.

Just got to get over my fear of heights now:D

raglan · 13-07-2012 11:00am

Hi Stovefan & all,
Looking for advice. We had an open fire with back boiler, open fire gave no great heat so blocked up back and put Oisin stanly stove in which was great. But now we are thinking of widening the chimney breast a bit to inset a boiler stove as back boiler pipes still there and to save on oil and to have usual perks of back boiler. We were looking at Stanley Erin stove as we have a Stanley Brandon range and they are meant to be a good stove, but I see Stratford EB12 recommended quite a bit and also it's more compact in size with the same output.

excuse my ignorance but We live in a two storey , 6 yrs old, I assume a back boiler heats only rads upstairs?? I am posting all rads and room dimensions here anyway.

Upstairs
Bedroom 1 double rad. 108 x 52cm
Bedroom 2. Double rad. 98 x 52
Landing. Double. 88 x 52
Bedroom 3, 2 small double rads, 58 x 52
Bedroom 4, 2 small double rads, 48 x 52
Bathroom , single rad, 39 x 50
Ensuite , single rad, 48 x 52

Downstairs
Hall, single rad, 59 x52. Double rad 88x52
Sitting room 68x42 double rads, two of these
Living room 68 x42 double rads, two of these
Utility 79x52 single
Toilet 50 x52 single
Back hall 49 x 52 single
Kitchen and conservatory link into one another, sitting room is off kitchen and double doors we had have been took off for various reasons, so basically the sitting room, kitchen, conservatory all open together. conservatory south facing so good heat when there is sun. conservatory has 3 double rads all 138 x 42 cm. the stove is in the sitting room.
Room dimensions of sitting room is 4.4 m x 3.9m leading kitchen/conservatory combined dimensions of 10.4m x 3.7m.
Even with the small Oisin on in winter, you can feel the heat in kitchen / conservatory from it so looking stove that would give similar room heat as Oisin but also heat water / rads to take chill from upstairs room. Any recommendations on the 2 stoves I listed would be great or any other recommendations. Already have had a builder and plumber have a quick look to see if it' ll be a big job but because we have back boiler pipes built in already should be ok. Thanks you

torres3011 · 13-07-2012 11:58am

Hi Stove fan,

How in gods name your not doing this for a living is beyond me.

Consultancy firm written all over it.

You are doing a public service on here mate.

My stove is going strong, 6 months after your advice.

Thanks again

Frank

Stove Fan · 13-07-2012 1:16pm

raglan wrote: »

Hi Stovefan & all,
Looking for advice. We had an open fire with back boiler, open fire gave no great heat so blocked up back and put Oisin stanly stove in which was great. But now we are thinking of widening the chimney breast a bit to inset a boiler stove as back boiler pipes still there and to save on oil and to have usual perks of back boiler. We were looking at Stanley Erin stove as we have a Stanley Brandon range and they are meant to be a good stove, but I see Stratford EB12 recommended quite a bit and also it's more compact in size with the same output.

excuse my ignorance but We live in a two storey , 6 yrs old, I assume a back boiler heats only rads upstairs?? I am posting all rads and room dimensions here anyway.

Upstairs
Bedroom 1 double rad. 108 x 52cm
Bedroom 2. Double rad. 98 x 52
Landing. Double. 88 x 52
Bedroom 3, 2 small double rads, 58 x 52
Bedroom 4, 2 small double rads, 48 x 52
Bathroom , single rad, 39 x 50
Ensuite , single rad, 48 x 52

Downstairs
Hall, single rad, 59 x52. Double rad 88x52
Sitting room 68x42 double rads, two of these
Living room 68 x42 double rads, two of these
Utility 79x52 single
Toilet 50 x52 single
Back hall 49 x 52 single
Kitchen and conservatory link into one another, sitting room is off kitchen and double doors we had have been took off for various reasons, so basically the sitting room, kitchen, conservatory all open together. conservatory south facing so good heat when there is sun. conservatory has 3 double rads all 138 x 42 cm. the stove is in the sitting room.
Room dimensions of sitting room is 4.4 m x 3.9m leading kitchen/conservatory combined dimensions of 10.4m x 3.7m.
Even with the small Oisin on in winter, you can feel the heat in kitchen / conservatory from it so looking stove that would give similar room heat as Oisin but also heat water / rads to take chill from upstairs room. Any recommendations on the 2 stoves I listed would be great or any other recommendations. Already have had a builder and plumber have a quick look to see if it' ll be a big job but because we have back boiler pipes built in already should be ok. Thanks you

Hi:) Your stove should heat most of the Kitchen/living room/conservatory on it's own so have only based the figure on the remaining rads.

Your new stove will/should be plumbed to heat upstairs and downstairs rads if thats what you want:)

Your looking for a stove with a 15kw-18kw back boiler and around 7kw to the room. with having no double doors to the kitchen the heat should circulate to the other rooms.

Your actual rads equate to around 12kw but you need to allow 2-3kw for domestic hot water. Plus I have allowed a bit extra output incase you need some rads on in conservatory.

I personally would consider the arrow EB16.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb16-he.html

If your system is zoned and you didnt heat both zones at once you could install a smaller output boiler stove, but myself I would go and heat all the rads I mentioned.

The stanley erin and EB12 boiler output would be too small a boiler output to heat all the rads I mentioned.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 13-07-2012 3:30pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Hi Stove fan,

How in gods name your not doing this for a living is beyond me.

Consultancy firm written all over it.

You are doing a public service on here mate.

My stove is going strong, 6 months after your advice.

Thanks again

Frank

Hi Frank:) I really don't know if I would actually get enough customers to make it worthwhile starting in buisiness. I don't even know how you go into buisness here on the legality sides, tax, insurance etc etc.
Can you earn so much before paying tax?

If I did it would be in a 40km radius of Tralee.

Great to hear your stove is going strong 6 months after my advice:D

What with the "Summer" as it is, we have had the odd fire going:eek: Crazy in Summer!!

Stove Fan:)

torres3011 · 13-07-2012 3:40pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi Frank:) I really don't know if I would actually get enough customers to make it worthwhile starting in buisiness. I don't even know how you go into buisness here on the legality sides, tax, insurance etc etc.
Can you earn so much before paying tax?

If I did it would be in a 40km radius of Tralee.

Great to hear your stove is going strong 6 months after my advice:D

What with the "Summer" as it is, we have had the odd fire going:eek: Crazy in Summer!!

Stove Fan:)

Not too much of a legal eagle meself like...:D:D

Tell you one thing though, if you had a paypal acc I would have gladly paid a fiver or a tenner for the advice.

Im in Cork and you helped me out and I can see from the thread your still at it.. so the Tralee radius is a moot point.

"Stove Fan Ltd. For all your online Stove Queries"

:D

Seriously though, whether you get rich or not from it I think you are helping a great many people out there on the tinterweb. Don't underestimate how hard good impartial advice on any subject is to come by.

Thanks again..

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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