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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)
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Hi, thanks:) It looks great, glad your very happy with your EB12HE:D
How quick do the rads take to heat up from cold? What fuel are you using?
Your now ready for some colder weather:D
Stove Fan:)
As the pipes are not boxed off at the side just now it means that I can feel when they get hot and use this as my q to tun on the pump.
I use sticks (pallets from work) as a kindling to get a good flame going and i would say the pump is on within ten minutes.
From a cold start to very warm rads I would say 20 minutes.
We were warned by the shop and by the paperwork with the stove not to use coke or other such coals, ie only use smokeless.
My brother and father-in-law think this is a bit of a joke but at the moment unsure. They reckon the grate will melt either way and not to be too concerned with it. What do you think yourself?
We have burned turf, blocks, pallets and smokeless coal and all are good. I prefer the wood just to look at the flame. ( and the fact it's free
)
Roll on the snow
Torres0 -
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torres3011 wrote: »As the pipes are not boxed off at the side just now it means that I can feel when they get hot and use this as my q to tun on the pump.
I use sticks (pallets from work) as a kindling to get a good flame going and i would say the pump is on within ten minutes.
From a cold start to very warm rads I would say 20 minutes.
We were warned by the shop and by the paperwork with the stove not to use coke or other such coals, ie only use smokeless.
My brother and father-in-law think this is a bit of a joke but at the moment unsure. They reckon the grate will melt either way and not to be too concerned with it. What do you think yourself?
We have burned turf, blocks, pallets and smokeless coal and all are good. I prefer the wood just to look at the flame. ( and the fact it's free )
Roll on the snow
Torres
Hi it sounds as if the quick heat up claims are true:D as ours heats the domestic hot water for around 15-40 minutes depending on how hot the water is and then the pump comes on fully by the pipe stat.
It takes around 45minutes to 90 minutes to heat all the rads depending on how hot the water in the DHW cylinder is.
I would strongly advice you to fit a pipe stat as without one if there was ever a problem with the stove the manufacturer would say its not installed to their instructions.
The reason you have a pipe stat is that it prevents too cool water circulating around the stoves boiler, you get condensation on the outside of the boiler in the stove which causes rust and shortens the life of the boiler. There have been cases on some stoves boilers only lasting 4 years because of this.
The pipe stat is great as you can't forget to switch the pump on!!! The pipe stat switches the pump on and off automatically. Set it above 40 degrees. A friend many years ago apparantly forgot to switch the pump on for her boiler stove and she flooded the place as the solder ring pipe fittings melted with the extreme heat:eek:!!
I would strongly advice only to burn smokeless fuel and not fuels like polish coal. It gets very hot and could damage the stove by overheating the metal.
We have burn premium polish coal on ours but it's very dirty:eek: I think as smokeless lasts longer it's better value and so much cleaner. We have Had no trouble with our stove burning coal but wouldnt risk nackering a new stove. We are always by the stove so never let it get out of control. If the boiler or stove warps/splits the manufacturer wouldn't pay out. Our manufacturer also says not to burn house coal and only smokeless. When we run out of coal were going to use smokeless.
Stove Fan:)0 -
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about2build wrote: »Which dealer delivers for free stove fan???! PM if necessary. I got quoted a 65 euro delivery from uk which isnt bad but still free would be better!!! that is if they have what im looking for
pm me too stove fan0 -
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Countryboymike wrote: »I have just got the offer of a German made stove called the Victoria 25KW.The guy just said it can do up to 18 Rads .I tried to google some info but could not find anything .Does anybody know anything about these Stoves guys.
I have looked too and found nothing:( I may be wrong but is it a cheap Chinese import? It really depends on price. A good brand stove could cost around 100 euro a kw.
Most good manufacturers have their own website with their own product range.
Ask for the phone number of the stove manufacturers and ask them what the address is of the manufacturers:D.
Ignore the salesmans claim it will heat 18 rads:( Get a plumber in to calculate the load on the boiler and choose a stove that suits.
Stove Fan:)0 -
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Great thread!
I am building an extension to my very old semiD. It currently has storage heating and a G BER rating. Im burning coial like a steam train and the house is of course still freezing
The rough plan (I am a novice) is to insulate the house up to an BER A or beyond spec, have solar panels for hot water (and possibly rads?) plus gas and wood/combi boilers on the same zoned system. I was looking at a Boru Carraig Mor 30kW combi boiler today
The space the boiler is in is 15sqm, but can open (sliding panels) onto the kitchen which is 30sqm - so I would like a fair bit of heat coming from the boiler when needed and be able to control what percentage of the energy goes towards heating water versus room if possible.
The boiler flue will go up 2 storeys as there is a void above where I want to put it (onto existing gable wall) so heat would rise upwards and heat the hall & bedrooms upstairs also
We will have 10 double rads in the house if I go conventional OR 8 doubles + underfloor heating in the extension downstairs
So questions and thanks in advance for your replies
1. Is underfloor really worth it for the 45sqm part - I would still have to install the 8 rads and it might be more expensive to mix the techniques or have other knock ons
2. Can I vary where the Boru sends the energy (to room or boiler)
3. Is the Boru sufficient for what I am trying to do
4. Do I need to ventialte the boiler in any special way as I am going towards airtighness in the house
5. Is there a maximum distance I should be between the boiler and the water tank
6. Any concerns with running the flue straight up 2 storeys?
7. I am a little worried that Boru are not field proven yet. I'd like to buy Irish but if people have suggestions on other brands Id appreciate
Thanks
Hi:) If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system. I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem.
This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
http://www.systemlink.ie/
The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.
2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove)
The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.
4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.
5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.
6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.
7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.
I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these facts:).
Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.
Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.
Stove Fan.0 -
Thanks for the advice Stove Fan
Hi:) If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system.
Yep - I was coming to the same conclusion
I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem. This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
http://www.systemlink.ie/
So I cant turn off zones with a triple coil cylinder but I can with a system link? Any idea on the rough systemlink total cost (unit, installation, plumbing)
The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.
The Gas and stove boilers will be dowstairs and hot water tank upstairs about 4m and 9m away resp.
2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove) The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.
Makes sense - so no stove boiler allows you to mix where heat is directed between room and water?
4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.
5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.
Im looking at about 9m. Is this a big thing in terms of efficeincy if the pipes are well insulated?
6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.
The stove boiler flue will go up 2 storey through a void. I am not considering putting the stove in an existing chimney at the moment
7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.
I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these facts:).
So insulate and put in Gas boiler first then decide on stove boiler make and spec?
Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.
Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.
Stove Fan.
Thanks again0 -
Originally Posted by Stove Fan
Thanks for the advice Stove Fan
Your welcome:)
Hi
If it was my house I would install a boiler stove heating only rads throughout. The rads simplify the system.
Yep - I was coming to the same conclusion
I would buy a triple coil cylinder or use a systemlink to link in the three heat sources. Ie boiler stove, gas boiler and solar panels. I would buy a traditional open vented regular condensing gas boiler and not combi or sytem. This would be the cheapest way of installing the system. You could also link all three with a thermal store but they are more expensive. The system link or triple coil cylinder would be the cheaper way. I favour the systemlink as it has zoning options built in. The thermal store is very expensive but good as there is very little heat loss from it.
http://www.systemlink.ie/
So I cant turn off zones with a triple coil cylinder but I can with a system link? Any idea on the rough systemlink total cost (unit, installation, plumbing)
You can if you fit seperate zone valves to the various radiator circuits. It's normal to have 3 zones. Upstairs/Downstairs and Domestic Hot water. You can have more zones if wanted. The system link would look neater and save time. No idea as to cost:(
The boiler stove would fit in the existing fireplace and gas boiler anywhere on or near an external wall. It's best for the boiler stove and hot water cylinder to be above the stove upstairs.
The Gas and stove boilers will be dowstairs and hot water tank upstairs about 4m and 9m away resp. Ideally you want the hot water cylinder nearest to the boiler stove. Your plumber will check your location to see if it's suitable. 9m is too far really to allow gravity circulation.
2&3) No, you need to have your rooms heat losses calculated with the new proposed insulation levels first as this will determine what size boiler stove is needed to:
A) Heat the Kitchen and living room. (Directly from stove) The back boiler size to heat all the rads.
I would install rads in the kitchen and living room anyway for when the stove isn't lit. Definately install these rads with thermostatic rad valves.
The gas boiler sized to heat the whole system.
Makes sense - so no stove boiler allows you to mix where heat is directed between room and water? No, you can only buy a boilerstove with different room outputs and boiler outputs Generally 30% to room and 70% to boiler. This is why choosing a boiler stove has to be sized correctly for your home. If the room output is too high, hence too hot in the room with stove you would close the fire up and so your rads wouldnt be heating to the required temp.
4) Yes definately. Your stove installer will advice. You can get freestanding boiler stoves with an external air kit. This would be best if your house is very airtight. There are very few inset boiler stoves with external air kit.
5) I would have the cylinder upstairs above the boiler stove. I would say 5m max. The less pipework linking to the systemlink or cylinder from the boilers the more efficient the system is.
Im looking at about 9m. Is this a big thing in terms of efficeincy if the pipes are well insulated?
See previous.
6)Which flue would this be? Is it for the stove? Is there a chimney in the house already? If there is, the boiler stove could use this chimney once lined. The gas boiler would be balanced flue with a small round outlet terminal on the wall.
The stove boiler flue will go up 2 storey through a void. I am not considering putting the stove in an existing chimney at the moment
Yes this is possible to create a new chimney by using a twin wall insulated chimney but far more expensive than using an existing chimney. It must be installed to the flue pipe manufacturers instructions.
7) There are many brands, but until we know the total required output I can't advice on which stove would be best.
I would get a heating expert in to calculate the required loads with the new levels of insulation on the boilers and then get quotes in based on these facts.
So insulate and put in Gas boiler first then decide on stove boiler make and spec? Yes, you could do that first, or do both together, it's really up to you and of course budget. If the budget is tight install gas first. I presume piped natural gas? If this is the case the gas will be cheaper to run than a boiler stove if paying top prices for fuel. If this is the case consider a non boiler stove:). Save on expensive plumbing but still gives heat to main rooms. You could still have domestic hot water only from it. If using tank LPG gas the boiler stove would be cheaper to run.
Stove Fan:)
Woodwarm, Morso, Charnwood, Clearview are all excellent.
Other makes are: Arrow, Hunter, Stovax, Dunsley. As well as Irish brands.
Stove Fan.0 -
Hello Stove Fan
Have been following this thread with keen interest as currently shopping for multi-fuel stove (~6Kw). Like many others hoping you can offer some advise here
We did the house up some years back and relocated the kitchen. We moved the aga to this new kitchen area. Where the aga was we now have an opening in readiness for a stove (or indeed regular fire place).
In a thread above you mentioned a flue may need to lined - in the context of former use of this flue (where aga used to heat water and some rads) does a flue need to be lined for regular stove use or would a 'regular' flue be okay?
I see also that you recommend some manufacturers above -any thoughts in the Dovre range (I was looking at the Dovre 250 or 425).
incidentally, if a stove is (say) rated at 8Kw - is that an average figure or something that is only achieved after a couple of hours at max burn?
Final question (is there such a thing?
) Current opening is lined with plasterboard which in itself has default fire rating. At this time I'm probably looking at a clearance of ~150mm either side of a stove. Would I need to add fire-board or would current plaster board be sufficient?
Many thanks for any advise given.0 -
Hello Stove Fan
Have been following this thread with keen interest as currently shopping for multi-fuel stove (~6Kw). Like many others hoping you can offer some advise here
We did the house up some years back and relocated the kitchen. We moved the aga to this new kitchen area. Where the aga was we now have an opening in readiness for a stove (or indeed regular fire place).
In a thread above you mentioned a flue may need to lined - in the context of former use of this flue (where aga used to heat water and some rads) does a flue need to be lined for regular stove use or would a 'regular' flue be okay?
I see also that you recommend some manufacturers above -any thoughts in the Dovre range (I was looking at the Dovre 250 or 425).
incidentally, if a stove is (say) rated at 8Kw - is that an average figure or something that is only achieved after a couple of hours at max burn?
Final question (is there such a thing? ) Current opening is lined with plasterboard which in itself has default fire rating. At this time I'm probably looking at a clearance of ~150mm either side of a stove. Would I need to add fire-board or would current plaster board be sufficient?
Many thanks for any advise given.
Hi:) With regards to the flue it depends whether its clay lined or not. If the aga was gas/oil fired it may have a stainless steel liner already but its unlikely that this would be a solid fuel grade liner. You get liners suitable for gas/oil and Gas/ oil and solid fuel. A picture up the chimney would be great:)
I have no experience of the dove range but you could look at reviews here by owners. http://www.whatstove.co.uk/reviews/stoves/stove-reviews/_c34.html
The ratings are not accurate.http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-heat-outputs.html
I would of thought the outputs quoted would be the maximum
If it's a decent manufacturer you could check the HETAS website. This gives efficiency figures and the refuel periods and heat outputs. Click each stove your interested in:)
http://www.hetas.co.uk//appliance/search?manu=--select--&app_type=--select--&model=&fuel_type=--select--&eff=&submit=Search
Not every stove is listed as it hasn't been tested by hetas.
The plasterboard would have to be removed as it's not completely fireproof. You would need something like monolux or supalux or vermiculite board to line the opening out. You could just use sand and cement direct to the wall and plaster it although the heat may crack the plaster. This would be much cheaper.
Stove Fan:)0 -
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Stovefan
I have been advised that with stoves that a straight flue is better but unfortunately this will not be possible with my new build as I would end up with very tall chimney stacks-this will look awful (and would not be condusive to my planning). I will therefore have to have have a turn in my flue-is this a problem do you think? Is there anything I should be telling the builder to do to make things work effectively in the long run.
Also, the builder was asking me today about the size of the clay pots to use in the flue-I understand that an 8" is standard and I can use connectors to tie it onto the stove. At present I am looking at the charnwood Island 1 (think 8" is right here as there is a 6/8" connector). I will not be putting a stove in one room for considerable while (due to budget) so would 8" pots be the safest option here.
Thanks again
Hi:) Yes the 8inch clay pots would be the best and is standard for an open fire. 8inch being the minimum size for an open fire. For your stove to connect into the clay lined pots you can as you say buy a clay liner adapter to go from the stoves outlet size to the 8 inch clay pots. This adapter is very important as it keeps tar/ condensation inside the flue to evaporate away safely.
If your chimney with the clay pots needs to change direction, ie needs to use a bend in the flue use the least tight bend as possible ie 15 or 30 degree at the most. It's fine to have a 15 or 30 degree bend with clay pots between each bend to get away from any obstacle. This is providing your chimney is wide enough to accommodate this.
The more vertical though the better:) This will make any future liner in an easy job to lower down.
The charnwood Island is a fab stove:D
Stove Fan:)0 -
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