STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Mutz

Got our stove installed on the 24th January 2012:

It got great ratings from Whatstove.co.uk: http://www.whatstove.co.uk/firefox-stoves/firefox-5-stove.html

Must agree the heat output is great and is easy to control. We were going to go with a Boru Croi Beag inset stove but due to being screwed around by the shop we were buying off we changed our mind and went with the Firefox. We are glad we changed our mind!

Room size is 18' x 12' x 8' and we can leave the sitting room door open now without worrying about the cold!

Pic:

Blanchguy

Hi,

I had an existing fireplace removed a couple of years ago and a stove installed. The installer bricked up the fireplace ope, sat the stove in front of it and the rear flue from the stove is vented into the void where the fireplace was. However any soot that falls down the chimney builds up below the level of the flue from the stove and isn't very easy to remove.

Is there any way around this - my only access is through the stove or through an inspection plate above the stove. Should I put another inspection plate below the stove - (it stands about 300mm off the floor) so I can shovel out any soot that falls down the chimney?

Thanks,
Blanch

Stove Fan

Blanchguy wrote: »

Hi,

I had an existing fireplace removed a couple of years ago and a stove installed. The installer bricked up the fireplace ope, sat the stove in front of it and the rear flue from the stove is vented into the void where the fireplace was. However any soot that falls down the chimney builds up below the level of the flue from the stove and isn't very easy to remove.

Is there any way around this - my only access is through the stove or through an inspection plate above the stove. Should I put another inspection plate below the stove - (it stands about 300mm off the floor) so I can shovel out any soot that falls down the chimney?

Thanks,
Blanch

Yes, you need a way to remove the soot. A soot door may be an option below providing it's fully sealed and doesn't let smoke/fumes out.
Another option may be a small section of flue pipe with removable cap?

Or buy an ash vac and just lower the nozzle/hose down to suck it up.

Stove Fan:)

Antxon

Hi everyone

First post so here it goes….. I was wondering if anybody out there is using heat from their stove downstairs to heat additional upstairs rooms via ducting in the open webbed joist system. My idea for a new build was to have a closable vent directly over the stove, and when the room is hot (i.e. too hot for comfort) to allow the extra heat to rise and distribute to upstairs by simple convection without the assistance of a fan. Is this even possible without a fan? By not having a fan I would hope there is not a large pressure difference that might affect the burn performance of the stove. Hope to install demand control ventilation with mechanical extraction, and have good airtight detailing, insulation etc and a pipe running under the floor to act as an external air supply beside the stove. All advice greatly appreciated!!


Antxon

Stove Fan

Antxon wrote: »

Hi everyone

First post so here it goes….. I was wondering if anybody out there is using heat from their stove downstairs to heat additional upstairs rooms via ducting in the open webbed joist system. My idea for a new build was to have a closable vent directly over the stove, and when the room is hot (i.e. too hot for comfort) to allow the extra heat to rise and distribute to upstairs by simple convection without the assistance of a fan. Is this even possible without a fan? By not having a fan I would hope there is not a large pressure difference that might affect the burn performance of the stove. Hope to install demand control ventilation with mechanical extraction, and have good airtight detailing, insulation etc and a pipe running under the floor to act as an external air supply beside the stove. All advice greatly appreciated!!
Antxon

The only problem with your idea of a diy job is the spread of smoke/ fire in the event of a fire.
You can buy insert stoves with air duct options in France and probably here to help heat other rooms. You may find something similar here? Something like this:
http://www.bricodepot.fr/tourlaville/node/479808
Or
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Fondis-Passion-insert-stove.html Pricy:eek:

A relative had the two vent setup in France in a cold uninsulated house and it wasnt great at heating other rooms:rolleyes: It may work well if the insulation is great. It took the chill off but that was all.

Myself I would prefer a boiler stove and rads as the built in fan on the insert stove is quite noisy.

Stove Fan:)

Antxon

Stove Fan wrote: »

The only problem with your idea of a diy job is the spread of smoke/ fire in the event of a fire.
You can buy insert stoves with air duct options in France and probably here to help heat other rooms. You may find something similar here? Something like this:
http://www.bricodepot.fr/tourlaville/node/479808
Or
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Fondis-Passion-insert-stove.html Pricy:eek:

A relative had the two vent setup in France in a cold uninsulated house and it wasnt great at heating other rooms:rolleyes: It may work well if the insulation is great. It took the chill off but that was all.

Myself I would prefer a boiler stove and rads as the built in fan on the insert stove is quite noisy.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for reply Stove Fan. Yeah fair point about spread of smoke in a fire; maybe some kind of system damper connected to a fire alarm that automatically closed the vent in the event of a fire.

Not so keen on the insert stoves or the fans (hence my idea) and yes that is far too pricy for my budget!
I do like the idea of stove with boiler , but would also like to have a dry stove in case of power outage (from what I understand a boiler stove can´t be lit if no power in house ? ) , and also ease of plumbing design. Can you see theses as issues for not deciding on a boiler stove?

The stove will be in living and kitchen area of about 40m2, (as I said with good insulation, airtightness etc) and also south facing with lots of glazing.

What rating of stove do you think is required if you only need to heat this area (dry stove) in house with this kind of spec.

Thanks again

Antxon

Stove Fan

Antxon wrote: »

Thanks for reply Stove Fan. Yeah fair point about spread of smoke in a fire; maybe some kind of system damper connected to a fire alarm that automatically closed the vent in the event of a fire.

Not so keen on the insert stoves or the fans (hence my idea) and yes that is far too pricy for my budget!
I do like the idea of stove with boiler , but would also like to have a dry stove in case of power outage (from what I understand a boiler stove can´t be lit if no power in house ? ) , and also ease of plumbing design. Can you see theses as issues for not deciding on a boiler stove?

The stove will be in living and kitchen area of about 40m2, (as I said with good insulation, airtightness etc) and also south facing with lots of glazing.

What rating of stove do you think is required if you only need to heat this area (dry stove) in house with this kind of spec.

Thanks again

Antxon

Hi:) We have a bungalow with only a boiler stove for heating and hot water. Our hot water is heated by gravity (In loft) and we also have a gravity rad near the stove in the event of a powercut 1.2kw.
So far in the 2 years we have lived here we haven't had a powercut. But in the event of a powercut the hot water cylinder and heat leak rad(s) would stop the stove from boiling the water. I would close the fire up so it only slumbers:).
You could get a plumber to design the system with several gravity radiators to dissipate the heat from the stove when the pump isn't running.

In my opinion a solid fuel system can be designed perfectly safely in the event of a powercut:D Providing you have gravity hot water and several gravity radiators.

To heat a 40sqm area with good insulation I would say 6 kw would be plenty:). If your room is virtually passive build practically next to nothing:D.

Stove Fan:)

Antxon

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) We have a bungalow with only a boiler stove for heating and hot water. Our hot water is heated by gravity (In loft) and we also have a gravity rad near the stove in the event of a powercut 1.2kw.
So far in the 2 years we have lived here we haven't had a powercut. But in the event of a powercut the hot water cylinder and heat leak rad(s) would stop the stove from boiling the water. I would close the fire up so it only slumbers:).
You could get a plumber to design the system with several gravity radiators to dissipate the heat from the stove when the pump isn't running.

In my opinion a solid fuel system can be designed perfectly safely in the event of a powercut:D Providing you have gravity hot water and several gravity radiators.

To heat a 40sqm area with good insulation I would say 6 kw would be plenty:). If your room is virtually passive build practically next to nothing:D.

Stove Fan:)

I will have a chat with my plumber and see what we can come up with.He suggested a boiler stove in the first place , so he has no problem with integrating it with rest of the system. Hopefully house design will allow for boiler option if I do decide to go down that route. Thanks again for the help Stove Fan

Sidd

Hi All,

What would your opinion be on this stove?

http://www.krby-bef.cz/en/product-catalogue/fireplace-inserts/start/start-6-cl

Thanks!

biggs2010

Hi All,

I am looking to buy an insert stove for a 16 inch fireplace, I have been quoted €680 for a 4kw non boiler Fully fitted. Is this good value?

Cheers!

Katharee

We installed a Boru Croi Beag in our living room just before Christmas. Cost of the stove and installation was €800.

Stove Fan

Sidd wrote: »

Hi All,

What would your opinion be on this stove?

http://www.krby-bef.cz/en/product-catalogue/fireplace-inserts/start/start-6-cl

Thanks!

Hi sorry I don't know anything about them:( If you can view there products and compare makes and quarantee and testing standards it would be great.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

biggs2010 wrote: »

Hi All,

I am looking to buy an insert stove for a 16 inch fireplace, I have been quoted €680 for a 4kw non boiler Fully fitted. Is this good value?

Cheers!

I really don't know:) Generally you pay around 800-1500 for a well known make insert stove, so sounds like a chinese import inset stove at that price;)

It may well be very good, see if you can get owner reviews on the model you are interested in:)

Stove Fan:)

creation mark

Hi Stove fan, I'm looking for a bit of advice please, i was asked to price a job today, the client wants a solid fuel stove (open system) to heat rads & hot water, combined with an oil fueled boiler A rated condensing (sealed system), rads & hot water with the addition of solar panels to do hot water only,it's a bugalow that she intends on converting the attic,hotpress is staying put downstairs, there are 5 zones & i hope to use a 5 zone system link instead of motorised valves

1.bedrooms.
2.living areas
3.new bedroom in attic conversion.
4.new office in attic conversion.
5.Hot water.

My questions are,

1. How do i connect an open vented system to a sealed system,i've read of a kind of baffle system, any ideas??

2. As the cylinder is staying put downstairs & she doesn't want her floors dug up/disturbed, is it possible to run the flow & return from a solid fuel device (stove), up the wall,across the attic and down? I vaguely remember only ever being able to rise those pipes to the cylinder if its located upstairs or dropping them in the floor then rising to the cylinder if, as in this case, its located on the ground floor...can you shed any light on this please?

Thank you,

Mark

Stove Fan

creation mark wrote: »

Hi Stove fan, I'm looking for a bit of advice please, i was asked to price a job today, the client wants a solid fuel stove (open system) to heat rads & hot water, combined with an oil fueled boiler A rated condensing (sealed system), rads & hot water with the addition of solar panels to do hot water only,it's a bugalow that she intends on converting the attic,hotpress is staying put downstairs, there are 5 zones & i hope to use a 5 zone system link instead of motorised valves

1.bedrooms.
2.living areas
3.new bedroom in attic conversion.
4.new office in attic conversion.
5.Hot water.

My questions are,

1. How do i connect an open vented system to a sealed system,i've read of a kind of baffle system, any ideas??

2. As the cylinder is staying put downstairs & she doesn't want her floors dug up/disturbed, is it possible to run the flow & return from a solid fuel device (stove), up the wall,across the attic and down? I vaguely remember only ever being able to rise those pipes to the cylinder if its located upstairs or dropping them in the floor then rising to the cylinder if, as in this case, its located on the ground floor...can you shed any light on this please?

Thank you,

Mark

Hi:) You can buy stoves which you can plumb in direct to a sealed heating system
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Link-Up-Systems.html

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Aquatherm-Eco-F15-insert-boiler-stove.html

There are probably others:)

The only other way to link the two appliances is a open vented thermal store.

If it's a new installation I would chose an open vented oil boiler linked to a systemlink.

I'm sure you can link the two with a systemlink but it still needs to be open vented on the stove side. Sealed on oil side.

Personally though I think it would be best to just fit a non boiler stove:D


Stove Fan:)

creation mark

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) You can buy stoves which you can plumb in direct to a sealed heating system
http://www.broseleyfires.com/Link-Up-Systems.html

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Aquatherm-Eco-F15-insert-boiler-stove.html

There are probably others:)

The only other way to link the two appliances is a open vented thermal store.

If it's a new installation I would chose an open vented oil boiler linked to a systemlink.

I'm sure you can link the two with a systemlink but it still needs to be open vented on the stove side. Sealed on oil side.

Personally though I think it would be best to just fit a non boiler stove:D


Stove Fan:)

legend, thanks for the info bro, it's been a while since i installed an open system lol. it's a heating upgrade,boiler is going to be a firebird heatpac system boiler, just wasn't sure on linking the two, much appreciated

DickyRock

Hi Stove Fan. I recently bought a Morso 1430, which has a 5" flue, and have been told by a potential installer that because the company from which he sources his parts doesn't sell 5" twin-wall that he would be using a 5-6" adapter and then running 6" the rest of the way. If a stoves efficiency is based on the flue width of the stove being maintained through the system, should I be thinking twice about hiring him? His quote for parts and labour is quite competitive, and he's HETAS certified, so I'm in two minds about it. The fact that I've a stove in my dining room with a candle in it 'for effect' and it's baltic outside at the moment is not helping my ability to make an informed decision either!

Putty Man

Quick question on how to make a flue airtight...

Its a new build and I'm spending a fortune trying to make it airtight. I'm installing 2 stoves and we're at the stage of fitting the twin wall flues which will run up side by side.

Where these flues go through the upstairs ceiling and into the attic, how can I make this airtight? At the moment its basically a big hole in the membrane, equilalent of an open window.

Any advice greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Stove Fan

DickyRock wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan. I recently bought a Morso 1430, which has a 5" flue, and have been told by a potential installer that because the company from which he sources his parts doesn't sell 5" twin-wall that he would be using a 5-6" adapter and then running 6" the rest of the way. If a stoves efficiency is based on the flue width of the stove being maintained through the system, should I be thinking twice about hiring him? His quote for parts and labour is quite competitive, and he's HETAS certified, so I'm in two minds about it. The fact that I've a stove in my dining room with a candle in it 'for effect' and it's baltic outside at the moment is not helping my ability to make an informed decision either!

Hi:) Increasing the flue size is fine. In fact the 6 inch is now a requirement in the UK on non defra approved stoves of 5 inch flue and should use 6 inch. This is because 5 inch blocks up quicker.

Ie non defra approved 5 inch flue should use 6 inch.

Defra approved can use 5 inch as cleaner burning so less soot.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

Putty Man wrote: »

Quick question on how to make a flue airtight...

Its a new build and I'm spending a fortune trying to make it airtight. I'm installing 2 stoves and we're at the stage of fitting the twin wall flues which will run up side by side.

Where these flues go through the upstairs ceiling and into the attic, how can I make this airtight? At the moment its basically a big hole in the membrane, equilalent of an open window.

Any advice greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Probably a masonry chimney would of been better for going through the roof except the cold thermal bridge:rolleyes:.

I don't really know but I don't really see any problem. So long the ceiling plate to loft is sealed well and it's installed to regs.

A prime need for a room sealed stove with external air supply.

Not much help I know:(

Stove Fan:)

DickyRock

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) Increasing the flue size is fine. In fact the 6 inch is now a requirement in the UK on non defra approved stoves of 5 inch flue and should use 6 inch. This is because 5 inch blocks up quicker.

Ie non defra approved 5 inch flue should use 6 inch.

Defra approved can use 5 inch as cleaner burning so less soot.

Stove Fan:)

Interesting, and of course it makes perfect sense when you talk about it like that. Thanks Stove Fan

Putty Man

Thanks Stove Fan.

Yeah we have a room sealed stove, which will have external air when we get to that stage.

Would have went for a masonary chimney (as the SS flues only last for 10-12 years apparently!), but due to the shape of the house this was not possible.

You may have answered my ques tho. Is this ceiling plate to the loft airtight? I kind of assumed these plates/firestops etc. weren't (checked the company websites) but I really hope I'm wrong about that.

Stove Fan

Putty Man wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan.

Yeah we have a room sealed stove, which will have external air when we get to that stage.

Would have went for a masonary chimney (as the SS flues only last for 10-12 years apparently!), but due to the shape of the house this was not possible.

You may have answered my ques tho. Is this ceiling plate to the loft airtight? I kind of assumed these plates/firestops etc. weren't (checked the company websites) but I really hope I'm wrong about that.

Yes I would certainly think the firestops were airtight from underneath but had a grille above to let heat escape from around the flue where it passes through timber floors:) It would certainly be bad if they weren't as they would spread smoke/flames:D

Stove Fan:)

Putty Man

Stove Fan wrote: »

Yes I would certainly think the firestops were airtight from underneath but had a grille above to let heat escape from around the flue where it passes through timber floors:) It would certainly be bad if they weren't as they would spread smoke/flames:D

Stove Fan:)

I don't quite follow you here Stove Fan. What I need is something that will stop any air from passing from underneath the ceiling, around the outside of the flues, to above the cieling into the attic. I'm hoping the flues themselves will keep the smoke and flames in!

Stove Fan

Putty Man wrote: »

I don't quite follow you here Stove Fan. What I need is something that will stop any air from passing from underneath the ceiling, around the outside of the flues, to above the cieling into the attic. I'm hoping the flues themselves will keep the smoke and flames in!

When you buy the firestop parts you will have a solid steel plate screwed to the ceiling and above upstairs at floor level a grill only to let the heat escape around the pipe where it passes through the floor.
This allows any warm air trapped to escape around the flue in the void between ceiling and floor, but does not allow air to pass through from downstairs as the steel plate fixed to the ceiling downstairs only has the right sized hole for the flue to pass through.

Through the roof you will just have a interior decorative plate and external flashing kit.

Stove Fan:)

DickyRock

Hi Stove Fan, I have one more question which I hope you won't mind answering; single wall flue runs - is it better to have as much flue as possible within the room in which the stove is situated to maximise the heat return on the stove, or does the amount of heat radiating from a single wall combined with the speed at which the air is moving vertically through it not really going to make much difference on top of the heat radiating from the stove itself? I was planning on a 250mm run of single wall from the stove, into a 45 bend, then another 250mm connecting to the sw-tw adaptor similar to the pic attached Attachment not found., but I'm wondering would I be better off with a 1m run of single-wall instead? The room the stove is in has standard 8' ceilings and will only be marginally raised off the ground with 1cm tiles. The stove is on 250mm legs so the top flue exit on the stove is approx. 720mm off the hearth.

Stove Fan

DickyRock wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan, I have one more question which I hope you won't mind answering; single wall flue runs - is it better to have as much flue as possible within the room in which the stove is situated to maximise the heat return on the stove, or does the amount of heat radiating from a single wall combined with the speed at which the air is moving vertically through it not really going to make much difference on top of the heat radiating from the stove itself? I was planning on a 250mm run of single wall from the stove, into a 45 bend, then another 250mm connecting to the sw-tw adaptor similar to the pic attached Attachment not found., but I'm wondering would I be better off with a 1m run of single-wall instead? The room the stove is in has standard 8' ceilings and will only be marginally raised off the ground with 1cm tiles. The stove is on 250mm legs so the top flue exit on the stove is approx. 720mm off the hearth.

Hi, Your pic didnt work.
Are you exiting out through the wall? If this is the case I would run 600mm of single wall and singlewall 45 degree bend and then join it to the twinwall going through the wall at 45 degrees to meet the 135 degree T piece.
General quidance states no more than 1m of single skin flue pipe mainly because too much can cool the flue down too much. (See link) Personally I would fit a metre or 1.5 whichever looks the best if going vertically out the roof and then go to twinwall.

Depending on the twinwall manufacturer you can buy a taper reducer which looks nicer than the different sizes if going vertical.

Don't forget that the single walled pipe must be 3x the diameter of the pipe away from combustible surfaces unless heat shielded, ie plasterboard,timber etc.

See. http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/flue-distance-to-combustibles.html

Stove Fan:)

DickyRock

Thanks Stove Fan. Sorry about the attachment. I've re-attached now. 600mm single wall it is so. Because the Morso 1430 has a rear heat shield I am hoping to be able to have the stove 150mm from a plastered cavity block wall, with the flue exiting through the wall. If I find that the plaster is beginning to crack then I will put a heatshield on the wall, although not scamalax as I don't like the look of it, so I would probably go for a metal sheet.

My parts list now looks like this;

1 x 600mm x 125mm single-wall matt black
1 x 45 degree bend x 125mm single-wall matt black
1 x 125mm to 150mm flue adaptor
1 x single-wall to twin-wall adaptor
1 x 150mm x 45 deg. rosette black
1 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall tee
1 x twin-wall 150mm flue wall support
3 x twin-wall 150mm adjustable bracket
4 x 1000mm x 150mm twin-wall flue
2 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall bend
1 x 150mm cowl

Does this look about right to you? My house is a two storey dormer, so I may get away with just a 3m run of twinwall on the outside, although I am aware that total flue length is recommended to be at least 4.5m, but with the inside run, through the adaptors and into the tee, it should be over a metre, so if I can save myself a €100 on a length of 1000m twin-wall I'd like to do that if I could.

Stove Fan

DickyRock wrote: »

Thanks Stove Fan. Sorry about the attachment. I've re-attached now. 600mm single wall it is so. Because the Morso 1430 has a rear heat shield I am hoping to be able to have the stove 150mm from a plastered cavity block wall, with the flue exiting through the wall. If I find that the plaster is beginning to crack then I will put a heatshield on the wall, although not scamalax as I don't like the look of it, so I would probably go for a metal sheet.

My parts list now looks like this;

1 x 600mm x 125mm single-wall matt black
1 x 45 degree bend x 125mm single-wall matt black
1 x 125mm to 150mm flue adaptor
1 x single-wall to twin-wall adaptor
1 x 150mm x 45 deg. rosette black
1 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall tee
1 x twin-wall 150mm flue wall support
3 x twin-wall 150mm adjustable bracket
4 x 1000mm x 150mm twin-wall flue
2 x 150mm x 45 deg. twin-wall bend
1 x 150mm cowl

Does this look about right to you? My house is a two storey dormer, so I may get away with just a 3m run of twinwall on the outside, although I am aware that total flue length is recommended to be at least 4.5m, but with the inside run, through the adaptors and into the tee, it should be over a metre, so if I can save myself a €100 on a length of 1000m twin-wall I'd like to do that if I could.

H, Yes your parts list looks fine:) If your using a twinwall support base and a 45 degree T you will need an end cap for it.
The 2, 45 degree twinwall bends are they for going around the eaves/gutters? If so try to use 30 degree bends, less resistance and easier to sweep although not as neat as the 45 degree bends. The less tight bends the better:)

Where the twinwall flue goes through the wall at 45 degrees buy an adjustable length:D makes the job much easier!

If your wall is direct wet plastered and not drylined then yes no problem with the single wall flue pipe being near it.

You can always raise the height of the flue if there is a problem:)

150mm from the wall is fine.
http://www.knight-stoves.co.uk/Instructions/o4_instructions.pdf

Stove Fan:)

DickyRock

Thanks for that link, and for 30 deg. bend tips Stove Fan. Every answer seems to lead to another question, so I hope you have the patience to bear with me! Twinwall-support bases; the guy I have been in discussions with about doing the install has said one wouldn't be required to support a flue length of 3-4m. I was reluctant to agree with him, as the alternative is to run a metre length of twinwall at a 45 deg. angle through the wall and have a 45 deg. bend at the end of that on the outside, with the 3-4m run above it. The wall brackets would be providing horizontal support, but vertical support is then down to the metre of twinwall running through the wall. The installer is certified, so I am second guessing myself, but when looking at the recommendations of the companies that make twinwall flues, they all say the brackets are only for horizontal support, and that a base support is needed for the vertical. What would your opinion be on this?