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Street Fighter X Tekken is for REAL!

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    #1082
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Best comment on SRK:

    "Luckily not many people play as Rolento or Ryu."


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    #1083
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    Best comment on SRK:

    "Luckily not many people play as Rolento or Ryu."

    Hopefully SFxT will completely bomb at Evo, the community drops it and they learn a valuable lesson in time for the release of SF5.

    Still playing SSF4, havent touched this in ages.


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    #1084
    Scavenger XIII
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Scavenger XIII


    Honestly I'd rather they learned their lesson in time to revamp SFxT into a decent game in an attempt to squeeze more sales out of the investment.

    Hate to see the Tekken chars go completely to waste on this disaster.


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    #1085
    UberPrinny_Baal
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭UberPrinny_Baal


    Burning Eclipse wrote: »
    Fully agree Doom.

    @UberPrinny_Baal

    I can speak about a few lost sales among my friends and I. Nothing to do with cannibalism, everything to do with Capcom's handling of this game. I really like fighting games, but I'm nowhere near hardcore like some people in this community. I didn't buy the game.

    I know I'm only talking about a few lost sales, but don't underestimate the amount of people like me and my friends around the world who reacted the same way as Doom's friends did.

    Haha, hardcoreness is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
    Personally I think the line between "casual" and "hardcore" is impossible to draw (and everyone draws it differently), but I'd definitely say that YOU specifically Misty are a hardcore fighting fan:
    You bought ever iteration of SF4, you've stuck with your main character, you read up on match-ups, frame data, potential changes coming in new releases, and traveled large distances to attend monthly cash tournaments.

    If you're not hardcore, who is?

    I'm as hardcore as you, but my reason for not buying SFxT was equal parts "I didn't like it when I played it" and "Too many damn fighting games".

    Since the fighting resurgence I've bought: HDR Remix, SF4, Super SF4, Tatsunoko VS Capcom, Blazblue CS, Marvel 3, SSF4:AE, Third Strike Online Edition, Ultimate Marvel 3, and Blazblue CS:EX

    After buying UMvC3, and not enjoying it I was officially "fatigued" with buying fighting games. I didn't even buy Skullgirls yet, and I really like that.

    And even with all the games I bought, I have none of the recent 3D games, or anything by SNK. I imagine there's people in the scene way more fatigued than me.

    The casual player probably picked up one version of Street Fighter, a copy of Mortal Kombat, and if they REALLY like fighting games, the newest Soul Calibur. Then they were done.

    I'm not discounting that bad press has hurt SFxT, but I still think MOST of the non-sales are from the truly casual market, which is the BIGGEST market by far.


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    #1086
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    SFIV4LYF


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    #1087
    Dreddybajs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,229 ✭✭✭Dreddybajs


    UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »
    Haha, hardcoreness is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
    Personally I think the line between "casual" and "hardcore" is impossible to draw (and everyone draws it differently), but I'd definitely say that YOU specifically Misty are a hardcore fighting fan:

    That's not Misty :pac:


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    #1088
    UberPrinny_Baal
    Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭UberPrinny_Baal


    Dreddybajs wrote: »
    That's not Misty :pac:

    I have no idea how that happened.

    I'll get my coat.


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    #1089
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Ramza wrote: »
    SFIV4LYF

    Jesus Christ, how the world has changed :D


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    #1090
    Burning Eclipse
    Registered Users Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭Burning Eclipse


    UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »
    Haha, hardcoreness is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
    Personally I think the line between "casual" and "hardcore" is impossible to draw (and everyone draws it differently), but I'd definitely say that YOU specifically Misty are a hardcore fighting fan:
    You bought ever iteration of SF4, you've stuck with your main character, you read up on match-ups, frame data, potential changes coming in new releases, and traveled large distances to attend monthly cash tournaments.

    If you're not hardcore, who is?

    In fairness, those are the only 2 points that apply to me, but you are right - that does put me ahead of many people when it comes to fighting games.

    I definitely take your point, market saturation has certainly played a part in this. I just think there are other factors at play too, that Capcom might not be as likely to admit too ;)


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    #1091
    Ramza
    Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, how the world has changed :D

    I know haha, agree with justin though in his recent article, this game has the longest lifespan ahead of it, it's the most solid game this generation definitely. Some things still annoy me but yknow!!


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    #1092
    D4RK ONION
    Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    Oh wow that's a bad'un!

    EDIT:: Oh look there was another whole page of comments here >_<


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    #1093
    Jun_DP101
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Jun_DP101


    game will still be considered boring if "l,m,h" damage isn't nerfed imo


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    #1094
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Jebailey's said Rolento will be banned at CEO if Capcom don't get their finger out.

    I can see it being the first of many, they need to sort that out ASAP.


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    #1095
    Kanped
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Kanped


    I honestly believe that that amount of work needed to fix this game wouldn't be worth the effort. You could make a new game that's good from the ground up instead and that would be much more worthwhile IMO.


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    #1096
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Well they have the character DLC to try and sell. They're not going to give up on SFxT until at least they find a way to launch that. It's already been made and paid for.


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    #1097
    Kanped
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Kanped


    Yeah, by the consumer! Disgraceful.

    I know they're not going to abandon but they seem to be doing a lot of posturing about 'fixing the game'. I think that's futile. Complete mechanics overhaul and severe changes to pretty much every character (they all play too similarly at the minute; they don't seem to be tailored to the strengths of the particular player who uses them the way Skullgirls, SF4 and even Marvel were). Complete redesign on 50+ characters and the mechanics; other than the interface (probably lifted straight from SF4), you're pretty much already making a whole new game. I'd like to see a new fighting game IP rather than make a sincere effort to fix this. Let's be honest here, though. They're not 'fixing' it; they're throwing a few random balance patches to make it look like they care in the hopes of keeping it alive and flogging the DLC we already own. This whole game has been a farce.


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    #1098
    Placebo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭Placebo


    LOL can you imagine REHASHING and selling the same game, money on production etc etc, so the select few hardcore fans can buy it?
    the've made their sales, DLC fixes are cheap, may improve sales a bit and get them to advertise the character DLC as Doom said.


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    #1099
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Hey Kanped, perhaps instead of making unsubstantiated claims you could perhaps answer this question I've asked of everyone who's went on a rant about it since the games release- and no one ever has given me a direct alternative to this day?
    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    However there is a world of difference between this post and some of the arguments made earlier in this thread. I'm no Capcom fanboy: but it's a forum, and bad arguments will inevitabely be called on, it's kinda their function :)

    I have yet to hear a solution to the problem that Capcom faced with the characters on the disc.

    1) People complained when Capcom released a disc with 10 extra characters on it.

    2) Capcom have stated 10 characters is too much for a patch.

    3) Capcom obvioiusly had budget for more than 10 characters.

    So, as far as I can see (and, being brutally honest, no one on the "other side" of this argument has offered a helpful solution to the problem, so I'm going with what I can think) Capcom have 2 options:

    1) They authorise the budget early and get the characters on the disc, which means they can be released simultaneously with a small patch which will reduce dev costs and also ensure no online issues as everyone will have them available.

    2) They release a number of patches for the characters which would drive up costs because, as we learned from MK, patches aint free, would drive up testing costs, and would likely introduce online compatability issues.

    3) They release them for free (which makes me lol- having spent time in the software industry, believe me, these characters would never have ever been authorised if that was the only option).

    So my problem is not an argument like yours, but an argument like THAT- it's removed from the reality of the situation, and I don't think people can be blamed for pointing that out.
    Kanped wrote: »
    Yeah, by the consumer! Disgraceful.

    I know they're not going to abandon but they seem to be doing a lot of posturing about 'fixing the game'. I think that's futile. Complete mechanics overhaul and severe changes to pretty much every character (they all play too similarly at the minute; they don't seem to be tailored to the strengths of the particular player who uses them the way Skullgirls, SF4 and even Marvel were). Complete redesign on 50+ characters and the mechanics; other than the interface (probably lifted straight from SF4), you're pretty much already making a whole new game. I'd like to see a new fighting game IP rather than make a sincere effort to fix this. Let's be honest here, though. They're not 'fixing' it; they're throwing a few random balance patches to make it look like they care in the hopes of keeping it alive and flogging the DLC we already own. This whole game has been a farce.

    Of course Capcom are going to try to make their projected profits from the game. If SFxT doesn't do at least reasonably well, it'll be a very bad thing for fighting games over all.

    That said- I haven't spent a penny on DLC for SFxT. That's my way of saying I like their games, but don't appreciate how they've behaved. I currently don't care enough to invest further in SFxT: They need to either give up on me and lose their projected profits (which they won't do, because, again, business) or spend some more money on QA and dev cycles and maybe claw some of it back.


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    #1100
    Vyze
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭Vyze


    How Capcom resolves this will tell a lot about the future of the company. This will be a big game to show whether the company wants to be seen in a positive light but lose out in short-term sales, or wants the money they originally budgeted for but risk a lot of community backlash.

    Activision already killed off the music game genre using techniques very similar to Capcom and fighting games (complete market saturation, some games that don't necessarily stand up to rivals) - we don't wanna see that happen.


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    #1101
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Vyze wrote: »
    How Capcom resolves this will tell a lot about the future of the company. This will be a big game to show whether the company wants to be seen in a positive light but lose out in short-term sales, or wants the money they originally budgeted for but risk a lot of community backlash.

    Activision already killed off the music game genre using techniques very similar to Capcom and fighting games (complete market saturation, some games that don't necessarily stand up to rivals) - we don't wanna see that happen.

    Capcom alone can't kill off the fighting genre because they do not own the fighting genre.

    Tekken outsells Street Fighter.
    Mortal Kombat outsells Street Fighter.
    Smash Bros outsells Street Fighter.
    Virtua Fighter kicks SF's ass in arcades, as do Gundam's VS series, Tekken, even Melty Blood on occasion.
    Guilty Gear & BlazBlue have sprung forth since SFIII "killed" FGs.
    Dead or Alive is a thing.
    Soulcalibur is the damn easiest FG to play.
    SKULL. GIRLS.

    If you can't see past Capcom, I recommend new specs.


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    #1102
    Vyze
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭Vyze


    Activision didn't own the music game genre, but do you see Harmonix or Konami releasing music games like they used to, or did Activision's glut of sub-par releases flooding the market turn the public off the genre.

    edit: Okay I'm a bit extreme in using the term "killed" here, but if the fighting game genre is going to last (unlike music games) then we can't keep up with how things are going at the moment with dodgy DLC practises and games that are totally broken on launch AND after patching!


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    #1103
    Vyze
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭Vyze


    edit: browser glitched out, accidental double-post!


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    #1104
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Well it's all well and good that all those games outsold SF.


    Did, for example, any of them lead to the formation of this forum?

    Does any of them even near the main event of Evo?

    Were any of them able to get Spooky out there (and we all know he loves his "poverty" fighters?)

    You're missing the entire point on why Capcom is important to the genre Kiki, it's nothing to do with your opinion on which fighter is best, or even what sells tbh.

    In the public conciousness, SF and Marvel are where it's at when you think fighting games. It's always an SF game which binds a community together (I suppose because ultimately every game can get boiled back to SF2 and the newer Sf's probably resemble that closest). Look at us for example, we've a decent thing going with Marvel, SF, MK, BB and even a few tekken/KoF/SC players. But it was vanilla which catalysed everything, brought everyone here, and lead those into the other games to meet.

    That doesn't mean for a second it's a better game, it's just the glue. To parphrase Spinal tap, it's the lukewarm water bass player between the fire and ice singer and lead guitarist.


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    #1105
    1man3letters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭1man3letters


    i think saying sf is the reason boards fighting game forum is here is a bit of a stretch tbh, even if u check last few pages of the threads 1st made it aint all sf

    your second question is more to do with opinion that fact though, i far more enjoyed last mk at mlg that last sf at evo so imo it would more be what comes close to mk events rather than sf at evo

    and yea spooky had come out and travelled for mk,more than once

    saying marvel and sf are were its at in the public conciousness really depends on who u ask though, while i agree it was the base for the other games to grow around here, it more kept me away for longer than it brought me here for but good points on "the glue" comment


    whatever they decide to do with the dogdy way the planned the dlc for the game id say just patch out whatever BS to make the game work,
    i dont see why such giants as capcom are fanning about with the whole thing, theres alot of gamebreaking stuff that needs to go from what i hear


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    #1106
    bush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    1man3letters wrote: »
    i think saying sf is the reason boards fighting game forum is here is a bit of a stretch tbh,

    Its not really. It only came about because of how popular sf4 was.


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    #1107
    Placebo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭Placebo


    bush wrote: »
    Its not really. It only came about because of how popular sf4 was.

    Exactly, SF4 is responsible for reigniting Fighting Games, globally.
    Apart from Sammy, i didnt see anyone make a major effort in Fighting Games.
    SF3 was still the main FG in tournaments.


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    #1108
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    1man3letters wrote: »
    i think saying sf is the reason boards fighting game forum is here is a bit of a stretch tbh, even if u check last few pages of the threads 1st made it aint all sf

    your second question is more to do with opinion that fact though, i far more enjoyed last mk at mlg that last sf at evo so imo it would more be what comes close to mk events rather than sf at evo

    and yea spooky had come out and travelled for mk,more than once

    saying marvel and sf are were its at in the public conciousness really depends on who u ask though, while i agree it was the base for the other games to grow around here, it more kept me away for longer than it brought me here for but good points on "the glue" comment


    whatever they decide to do with the dogdy way the planned the dlc for the game id say just patch out whatever BS to make the game work,
    i dont see why such giants as capcom are fanning about with the whole thing, theres alot of gamebreaking stuff that needs to go from what i hear

    Ah man, you're not going to win this argument. You weren't here when the forum was being fought for: It was SF4 which led literally and directly to it's creation. Other games used to have a worryingly small representation here (not that we were happy about that, Day of Champions started as an attempt to change it). I can recall going over to the main games forum and asking the (plentiful) people in the MK thread to come to tournaments and post here: like a brick wall. Different now of course.


    You may have preferred MLG as an MK fan, but the guys in work ask me what weekend Evo is on so they can watch some games. I think you're missing the point. Personally I think they'd all agree MK was a better package of a game than say SSF4: But they're not pushed about getting into the scene, they just want to watch the "1" big tournament, and in their heads, that's Evo.

    In a similar vein, do you think Spooky could have been able to come out to support MK if he'd not built up his presence with all those SSF4 streams?

    I think it's very dangerous for fighting games in general to ignore Capcoms follies when it comes to SFxT.

    People who disregard Capcom like to say how the dark age was a myth: Certainly felt like a dark age when I was playing CvS2 on my own in my house with no arcades and no network play to find others.


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    #1109
    1man3letters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭1man3letters


    Placebo wrote: »
    Exactly, SF4 is responsible for reigniting Fighting Games, globally.
    Apart from Sammy, i didnt see anyone make a major effort in Fighting Games.
    SF3 was still the main FG in tournaments.

    again a bit of a stretch, it reigniting the sf community sure, just as mk9 reignited the mk community but the global FGC is bigger than one game,
    i think the fact that sf is japans main game messes with that a bit though,
    sf3 was main game in the sf scene,not others
    sure mk3/mk2 had a huge tournies scene back then,still do


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    #1110
    Placebo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,070 ✭✭✭Placebo


    Dark ages did exist. I think the present now is more fruitful for those that experienced the dark ages. Sure there was no way to play even SF3 [an ancient game even at that time] on any thing but the dreamcast, until anniversary edition was announced on the latest consoles, see old boards post here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=163973


    1man3letters wrote: »
    again a bit of a stretch, it reigniting the sf community sure, just as mk9 reignited the mk community but the global FGC is bigger than one game,
    i think the fact that sf is japans main game messes with that a bit though,
    sf3 was main game in the sf scene,not others
    sure mk3/mk2 had a huge tournies scene back then,still do
    read brian/Dooms post.


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    #1111
    Forest Demon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Forest Demon


    Whatever they do with SFxT at this stage its just polishing a turd. Apart from the issues with the game its just not that good. I found it cheap, frustrating and unfinished.

    To take over from SF4 as the main tournament fighting game it needed to be fresh and different from SF4. Its too similar too but not as good as SF4.

    Marvel is sufficiently different to co-exist with SF4 for Capcom fighting game fans. SF4 will be most popular until something better/credible comes along.

    From a tournament perspective I think SF4 is the least cheap and most skilful game. I am too late to that party to start learning it but I can see why its so popular. I also think that the game is better without ultras.

    As tournament games go I think MK9 is the first MK game that was really tournament ready. The others have not aged well. If any game has the opportunity to become the biggest tournament fighting game it is MK10. MK9 was an amazing start and a huge step forward. It still has its quirks and balancing issues from what I can see.

    When large sponsorship get involved that will also influence what the big name players are playing. Just like Wong swooping in and winning the PDP tournament with that broken arse Kung Lao. Players will follow the fame and fortune.

    I don't think that it will happen with this generation of games. Maybe with the new consoles. For fighting games to get really huge then I think they need to get back to basics and evolve from there. There is too much manga, RPG, Pokemon, comeback systems and gem type boosts. Combos are too long and punishing. This only rewards a certain type of player.

    No combo should do any more than 25% damage in any fighting game. They can be as flashy as they want but I hate games where you make one mistake (or someone gets a jammy guess) and lose over half your health.

    By the way are all fighting games from now on going to be sequels?


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