Street Fighter X Tekken is for REAL!

Neeknak · 07-03-2012 5:03pm

airgilbert wrote: »

where did you order from?

ShopTo.net

bush · 07-03-2012 5:04pm

You know what your buying when you pay the cash. They dont advertise anything thats not available to you when you buy the game.

Orim · 07-03-2012 5:11pm

Kirby wrote: »

Are you seriously questioning this? So you think a 100kb download holds textures, sound effects, and all sorts of attack data in it? For a HD game?

Capcom have done this a bunch of times. They have form.

Yes, yes I am. Not only am I questioning it I gave an example where the up in arms "It's on the disc. It shouldn't be locked" mob where wrong.

On the otherside I have never seen an examples and proof from this side that content is being locked purely for profit. As I said there is far too many factors to blindly say that everytime content is on the disc it's being locked to hold it back for DLC.

And before anyone starts on me for being a being big corporate whore, I'm giving my opinion on one facet where I don't agree people, especially as I see it as a massive overreaction to a legit business situation. An example of a practise I don't like is online passes. As such I have not bought a single game that requires an online (aside from buying a copy of MK from Monkeyto)

UberPrinny_Baal · 07-03-2012 5:19pm

I always find the gamer mentality regarding DLC a bit weird.

Everyone has their own "line in the sand" in their head whereby suddenly the practice goes from perfectly okay, to a slap in the face.

Which can include:

Content being "on the disc"
Development of the content included in the original developmental budget
Exclusively DLC characters, not being free in later disc releases (ala Marvel)
Console exclusive characters

Milage varies so wildly between different posters, I find it kind of baffling.

Sabre0001 · 07-03-2012 5:21pm

bush wrote: »

You know what your buying when you pay the cash. They dont advertise anything thats not available to you when you buy the game.

Except "full online functionality" and modes when you can't do two players on one console against anyone online if you're an Xbox owner...despite it also being listed in the manual. Whoopsie.

Neeknak · 07-03-2012 5:22pm

Contrary to what the self righteous mob think, the development costs for the DLC are included in the company's budget for the game. They don't open their piggy bank and take profits from the disc release and then start work on it.

The content was put on the disc to eliminate the need for another future disc release a la SSF4 & UMvC3. If the characters weren't stored on the disc, they'd just be stored on Capcom's computers until Autumn and you'd either have a massive download to look forward to or the prospect of buying another disc. Would people be less morally outraged if they did that? Either way, the content is already there. And let's not forget that the content is not essential to the final product experience, it's a luxury. No-one's forcing you to hand over your money and you're going to see the same end sequence when you finish the game.

And if anything, Capcom have been showing us mercy in the last 5 years. I paid £55 for Street fighter 2 with 8 characters. Then £70 for Stereet Fighter 2: Turbo with 12 characters. Then £55 for Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo with 16 characters. SFxT is giving 38 playable characters for £40. I count these as the glory days :pac:

Sabre0001 · 07-03-2012 5:26pm

Neeknak wrote: »

And if anything, Capcom have been showing us mercy in the last 5 years. I paid £55 for Street fighter 2 with 8 characters. Then £70 for Stereet Fighter 2: Turbo with 12 characters. Then £55 for Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo with 16 characters. SFxT is giving 38 playable characters for £40. I count these as the glory days :pac:

Not going to get into the whole DLC thing...but seriously, mercy? They released three iterations of Street Fighter 4 - regardless of how many characters are in it; how often are many of them used?

Then MvC3 - they release a game that's unbalanced and sure, oodles of characters - but again, very few combinations used. So then, within a year they release a second version.

They gripe I have with the DLC in SFxT is that Cody and Guy were being touted with initial trailers so surely they should have been included.

Neeknak · 07-03-2012 5:30pm

Price wise, yes Mercy. For the full SF4 series Ive had to pay half as much as I did for the SF2 series.

Kirby · 07-03-2012 5:36pm

Orim wrote: »

On the otherside I have never seen an examples and proof from this side that content is being locked purely for profit. As I said there is far too many factors to blindly say that everytime content is on the disc it's being locked to hold it back for DLC.

What other reason could there be? “To save hard drive space.” is a ridiculous line from Capcom and if a person believes that, I have some magic beans that are stellar.

People are falling into the trap that usually happens in these kinds of discussions. They like said game and like said company and therefore feel obliged to defend it without actually looking at the issue. I like SFxT. I like that capcom make good games. But that doesn't mean I'll turn a blind eye to sleazy business practices.

Orim · 07-03-2012 6:16pm

Kirby wrote: »

What other reason could there be? “To save hard drive space.” is a ridiculous line from Capcom and if a person believes that, I have some magic beans that are stellar.

Orim wrote: »

There is a lenghty process between a game being finished, sent off licensing,verification etc. and the game discs actually being printed. There is plenty of time for content to be produced in time to be placed on the disc thus saving everyone involved a little time and saving the company a little money.

There's one that I mentioned earlier. Kind of covers as everything as it could mean the content is on the disc as part of forward planning, it could be content that was used as a proof of concept, it could be something that they were to make but didn't finish in time and was later decided to be DLC or not released at all or it could be just a random fluke.

Again I've seen nothing from the mob regarding this.

Another example is an older one but of the the early the early Pro Evos was supposed to have a weird, individual player development simulation mode that was released in the Japanese version. Work was started on it but the localisation wasn't finished for release. So it wasn't released but there was a lot of it on the cartridge.

Same thing except today developers have extra time afforded to them and can finish these type of things and release them as DLC. No scam, just a matter of long development times and a deadline.

Kirby wrote: »

People are falling into the trap that usually happens in these kinds of discussions. They like said game and like said company and therefore feel obliged to defend it without actually looking at the issue. I like SFxT. I like that capcom make good games. But that doesn't mean I'll turn a blind eye to sleazy business practices.

It's funny because I'm not actually a huge fan of the game. The whole gems thing annoyed me to the point that I wasn't going to buy the game. But as I said above this whole "It's on the disc, it's so evil" reaction just annoys me.

Sagat06 · 07-03-2012 6:20pm

Orim wrote: »

Same thing except today developers have extra time afforded to them and can finish these type of things and release them as DLC. No scam, just a matter of long development times and a deadline.

I havent been following much of this but if this is the case surely capcom would have come out immediately and said it was the case??

Sabre0001 · 07-03-2012 6:24pm

Sagat06 wrote: »

I havent been following much of this but if this is the case surely capcom would have come out immediately and said it was the case??

They're not exactly the most forthcoming with info. Cooperative issue wasn't revealed until launch day......when the community spoke about it.

Orim · 07-03-2012 6:25pm

Sagat06 wrote: »

I havent been following much of this but if this is the case surely capcom would have come out immediately and said it was the case??

I'm just throwing out examples there. In this case Capcom have said that they've put them on the disc so that when they're released everyone will be compatible even if they don't purchase the DLC. Which seems like a reasonable story to me, especially having seen this situation cause problems with Gears of War 3.

But there is no reason that defeats rabble, rabble, rabble.

Scavenger XIII · 07-03-2012 6:28pm

Orim wrote: »

But there is no reason that defeats rabble, rabble, rabble.

They could at least free Hat. :pac:

Ken B · 07-03-2012 6:42pm

To me, it's like bringing back a prozzie, getting €50 worth (whatever that is??!? maybe one of you can help me out...)

All the while knowing that she's capable of so much more.....

Doctor DooM · 07-03-2012 6:50pm

I'd be very suprised if we don't hear the online is getting patched tomorrow, considering ono and killian's tweets.

As for the characters on discs: As I said, Capcom took huge flack from casual gamers for releasing SSF4 on disc (which, btw, had unfinished characters on it) so what are they supposed to do? People are pissed off either way.

And before anyone accuses me of playing Capcom fanboy, they can feck off if they think I am paying a penny for a gem.

GorySnake · 07-03-2012 7:01pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

As for the characters on discs: As I said, Capcom took huge flack from casual gamers for releasing SSF4 on disc (which, btw, had unfinished characters on it) so what are they supposed to do? People are pissed off either way.

Well that's a completely different situation since SSF4's characters weren't on the Vanilla disc if I remember correctly

:cool:

Kirby · 07-03-2012 7:13pm

Orim wrote: »

There's one that I mentioned earlier. Kind of covers as everything as it could mean the content is on the disc as part of forward planning, it could be content that was used as a proof of concept, it could be something that they were to make but didn't finish in time and was later decided to be DLC or not released at all or it could be just a random fluke.

Again I've seen nothing from the mob regarding this.

So your point is that They aren't locking 100% complete content and then charging for it.......these characters weren't finished in time.....will be later.....and some assets are on the disc because of this? Do I have that right?

It would be a decent theory except that it flies in the face of history. Resident evil 5 multiplayer? completed and on the disc. Charged money for dlc and a 1 megabyte unlock code. SF4 costumes? Completed and on the disc. unlocked with code tiny, tiny codes.

The bottom line is that the 12 locked characters are completely done and are on the disc. Some people agree with this and think it's fine. Other people do not. Thats fine. But the whole "Oh but they werent done in time for release!" argument is rubbish man.

I'll still probably buy the game because I think it looks fun but I swear some people play devil's advocate just to do it. I have a hard time believing anybody defending this sort of business practice actually thinks this is a good way to make games. If the whole industry started doing this we would be in alot of trouble. Where does it start and end?

I seem to recall GT5 was originally going to have 1 track and 1 car and everything else was going to be DLC and micro transactions. They rightfully came to their sense but its heading that way. Tiger Woods golf with half the courses locked on the disc. It's crazy.

airgilbert · 07-03-2012 7:33pm

Neeknak wrote: »

ShopTo.net

same, hope mine comes tomorrow

Doctor DooM · 07-03-2012 7:36pm

GorySnake wrote: »

Well that's a completely different situation since SSF4's characters weren't on the Vanilla disc if I remember correctly

:cool:

Both Deejay and t Hawk were partially on the Vanilla disc.

Orim · 07-03-2012 7:42pm

Kirby wrote: »

So your point is that They aren't locking 100% complete content and then charging for it.......these characters weren't finished in time.....will be later.....and some assets are on the disc because of this? Do I have that right?

No I'm saying that that would one particular case. As in the example I gave of MvC 3 with the imcomplete Jill.

I've said that there is other cases. As in the case of SFxT where they placed characters on the discs to prevent a compatibility issue with DLC characters that would be realeased. In this case it prevents an issue that I have seen in Gears of War 3 and afaik at this time we have no idea of how complete or incomplete the DLC characters are.

A third case is Mass Effect 3. This has shipped with completed DLC (Day One DLC I believe) on the disc. This is a case where the game was completed and sent off to vetted by Microsoft/Sony etc. and the content was made during that vetting process. As DlC it then avoids the vetting process and is able to be released quickly.

Look lots of different reasons for three games where I would happy with that content later being released as DLC despite being on the disc.

And this is the crux of my point, it's not this situation is right or wrong, it's that there is lots of genuine reasons that DLC content might be on disc and unfortunately there is no way anyone outside of the companies involved can know the reason for it.

GorySnake · 07-03-2012 7:45pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Both Deejay and t Hawk were partially on the Vanilla disc.

Still a big difference in my opinion, 2 out of 10 of SSF4's characters had partial models and were never in a playable state, compared to SFxT's 12 out of 12 DLC characters that pretty much look complete.

:cool:

Scavenger XIII · 07-03-2012 9:10pm

On a positive note the live action tie-in short film is pretty well done and laughs in the face of Hollywood as I would have expected from Thousand Pounds.

Kens appearance put a big grin on my face when I realized who he was.

Orim · 07-03-2012 9:18pm

Scavenger XIII wrote: »

On a positive note the live action tie-in short film is pretty well done and laughs in the face of Hollywood as I would have expected from Thousand Pounds.

Kens appearance put a big grin on my face when I realized who he was.

What's this now?

Kirby · 07-03-2012 10:06pm

Orim wrote: »

No I'm saying that that would one particular case. As in the example I gave of MvC 3 with the imcomplete Jill.

I've said that there is other cases. As in the case of SFxT where they placed characters on the discs to prevent a compatibility issue with DLC characters that would be realeased. In this case it prevents an issue that I have seen in Gears of War 3 and afaik at this time we have no idea of how complete or incomplete the DLC characters are.

A third case is Mass Effect 3. This has shipped with completed DLC (Day One DLC I believe) on the disc. This is a case where the game was completed and sent off to vetted by Microsoft/Sony etc. and the content was made during that vetting process. As DlC it then avoids the vetting process and is able to be released quickly.

Look lots of different reasons for three games where I would happy with that content later being released as DLC despite being on the disc.

And this is the crux of my point, it's not this situation is right or wrong, it's that there is lots of genuine reasons that DLC content might be on disc and unfortunately there is no way anyone outside of the companies involved can know the reason for it.

That genuine reason is to make money. I played the bones out of me1 and me2 and ME2 came with day one DLC.

Dragon Age 2 also came with Day one DLC. ME3 will be no different. The "DLC" is designed along with the rest of the game, at the same time using the same team and the same assets. They designate early on what they are sectioning off as "DLC". It's EA. It's a strategy. It's created long, long before release and dripped out as paid DLC and for free for members who have their online pass.

They drip it out to try and stop people trading in the game and holding onto it. ME2 first substantial DLC was Kasumi and she and her story were created way before release. They just held it back. You can see it on the making of documentaries if you look closely enough. Lair of the shadow broker and project overlord was actual true DLC created after release. Anything before that was created over a year before.

It's planned and purely designed for fiscal reasons. Any belief that its not and based on not getting it completed for release/timing/vetting issues with Microsoft is hugely naive in my opinion. Do you truly believe that the 12 characters are on the disc for "compatability issues?" If they are done why aren't they part of the roster? If they were completed at the last minute why arent they being patched in? It doesn't add up. It's purely a way to make money.

At the end of the day the sky isn't falling. You just choose to buy or not to buy. It's simple. But I am firmly opposed to this sort of games development and applaud the publishers who rally against it.

PPC · 07-03-2012 10:57pm

Kirby wrote: »

That genuine reason is to make money.

A company looking to make money and trying to keep a long term revenue stream, who'd have thunk it?

Would you prefer they finish the work prelaunch, don't put it on disc and then you have to download it later on when they decide to launch?
Yes this was planned and forecasted revenue and I appreciate the fact there will be parity among the versions without having to download a large patch.

The game is launching with the characters they announced, they were planning to sell the extra ones all along.
When you purchase a game you purchase a licence to use the software, you don't purchase the contents of the disc, they've included the licence for the initial characters and plan to sell the next lot of characters later in the year to increase the revenue stream of the dev team so they can keep making the same products.

If the game isn't bringing in revenue long term why should they bother with patches and any other planned postlaunch dev'd dlc like shadowbroker and AE2012?

Kirby · 07-03-2012 11:03pm

PPC wrote: »

A company looking to make money and trying to keep a long term revenue stream, who'd have thunk it?

Would you prefer they finish the work prelaunch, don't put it on disc and then you have to download it later on when they decide to launch?

Kirby wrote: »

DLC is a great money maker and I dont begrudge any company the chance to release some and make money. But it has to actually be new content. .

I would prefer them to ship whatever they have made. It really is no different to Nintendo taking out world 6,7 and 8 from the original Mario and packaging as extra. It's part of the game they made. It's just become commonplace for companies to do this. I find it a shame.

Regardless, we have all bought the game anyway. Some us will just choose not to buy the "DLC" as Doom said.

Speed Boat · 07-03-2012 11:27pm

In other news,

The big american weeklies (also I think they all get some SRK sponsorship) of Big Two, WNF and Thursday Night Throwdown have banned gems until the tournament patch.

Get hype! Can't wait to play this.