Households must pay for water meters.

flutered · 15-04-2012 08:19PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

If you care about something, fine, but the way you phrase it sounds bitter.

that is your interpation, if biggins is bitter perhaps he has a reason for it, i was released from hospital yesterday, as i type this i am layered in clothing, why you ask, because my personal allowance for heating is used up, no heating until tomorrow, now perhaps you may be getting the drift, biggins cares for my country, as do i, i paid income tax @ 62%, a morgage/ overdraft @ 27%, then i see that apologist for an irishman kenny recieving a teachers pension, a teachers wages while a td, he has more allowances than an onion has layers, he and his cabinet will never have to stay wrapped against the cold whille sitting at the kitchen table, back in the day i got to know a few good irish men who were prepared to die for my country, now i see selfish irish people who are not prepared to take an expenses cut to help my country, so a few people wonder about bitterness.

Ghandee · 15-04-2012 08:19PM

lugha wrote: »

I’d have no objection in principle, though there probably wouldn’t be a well in most gardens I think. And there may be other issues in build up areas. But certainly people could look at rain harvesting mechanisms.

If they want the convenience of piped water then people should pay for it, and as is the case with electricity and gas and so on, paying according to the amount you use seems perfectly sensible to me. But if people do not want these conveniences then they should have the right not to have them if that is there wish. I'd fully support anyone taking that stance.

YOU would have no objection?

Who the hell are you? The King of Ireland or something

Why should anyone give a flying fig what you object, or do not object to?

Is this finally some kind of admission from yourself that your a Government shill or Politician?

lugha wrote: »

No more so that electricity or gas / oil. We can survive without any of these things piped into our homes but at a cost of considerable inconvenience.

There is no more a case for free water than there is for free gas. The only difference is, we are used to paying for gas in proportion to the amount we use. That is not the case for water.

God help us all so if the lying thieving bastards ever discover how to tax us on the air we breathe so:rolleyes:

lugha wrote: »

I'm possibly not being very clear in my post. Of course water is not free.

A percentage of our paye and various other taxes already contribute to our public water supplies, so why are we being asked to pay again?

Will they decreaseIncome tax, VAT, USC and any other scam fcuking tax they can think off, now that we will be paying directly for water? (after all, thats what we were told that tax money was being spent on)

I dont think so some how.

melekalikimaka wrote: »

how twice?

See above explaination.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

You should print that on a poster and deliver one to every house in Ireland.

Now, where will we find enough ink to print that many posters?

The Govt should have plenty of ink in supply, due to the amount saved by not sending invoices for the HHC, but wait.........

They afterall, sent millions of 'final demands' out to homes, reminding them that a payment to bondholders in Germanytowards a tax on their home was due.

EVEN to estates, yes WHOLE estates that were exempt.

I'd like to quote a poster from a previous thread (cant remember who now) who geniusely described the current coalition Gov as....

"a useless bunch of swivel eyed gombeens"

Let any man try and enter my private property to install something ?I never asked for, then charge me for doing so, and THEN expect me to pay a rental fee forever on it......

They will leave quicker than they arrived, that is a promise.

KeithM89_old · 15-04-2012 08:24PM

Lets stay on topic.
Unless the IRA start poisoning the water, theyve no place in this thread.

gerryo777 · 15-04-2012 08:26PM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Surely, there'll be a way of getting free water...circumventing these meters would surely be possible, after all this is Ireland so the meters won't be foolproof

Yep, very easy to circumventing the meter and leaving it to show minimal water use........ very easy indeed, if you know what your doing.
Needs to be done from day 1 though as a sudden drop in usage might raise suspicion.;)

You know, this is just like the household tax. I suppose renters won't be liable and council tenants too.

More discrimination from FG/Labour.

They should hang their heads in shame, or maybe just hang..........

gerryo777 · 15-04-2012 08:27PM

5live wrote: »

Well you have a choice of paying directly for it through the meter surcharge or indirectly through general taxation. Either way you pay

Are we not paying already through general taxation??

lividduck · 15-04-2012 08:29PM

Now now childrens remember what big Phil said about being patriotic!

I wonder has the kunt paid his service charges on his hideaway in Portugal yet?

gerryo777 · 15-04-2012 08:31PM

Where's black frannie & dv power, they'd love this thread.
I think tax to them is a sexual thing...
Oh Jesus, alastair should be back from his little 'holiday' soon....

MadYaker · 15-04-2012 08:31PM

washman3 wrote: »

Go ask the people of Galway city.;)
bet they would gladly drink what falls from the sky at this stage as opposed to the "treated" ****e thats flowing from their taps.

"Treated" ****e that they already have paid for through their general taxation. Ignorance is indeed a bliss.;)

washman3 wrote: »

Yes correct. And that is paid for by the general taxation of each and every taxpayer in the land. Anything else you've been told to the contrary is pure and utter bull.

Astonishing. I will try and explain it to you once more. Drinking water costs money to provide, the same as electricity or gas yet you have no problem paying for them. Do you refuse to pay for electricity because it sometimes comes from the clouds too? Your reasoning is so flawed.

Nobody is disputing the fact that its payed for in our taxes, it clearly is. The point I am making is that it isn't unreasonable to be charged for water on top of everything else based on how much you use, considering its a finite resource that is very expensive to provide, the same as electricity and gas.

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 08:33PM

5live wrote: »

Well you have a choice of paying directly for it through the meter surcharge or indirectly through general taxation. Either way you pay

We already pay.

Biggins · 15-04-2012 08:34PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are we not paying already through general taxation??

"No!"

That was a responce posted on behalf of the FG and labour party!

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 08:36PM

Biggins wrote: »

"No!"

That was a responce posted on behalf of the FG and labour party!

You forgot to include parties to the GPA.:D

Freddie59 · 15-04-2012 08:40PM

lugha wrote: »

Are you aware that we have a budget deficit?

Which is caused by.........come on........you can admit it Lugha!:D

heyjude · 15-04-2012 08:42PM

If you pay for the water meter then it belongs to you and that makes you responsible for its maintainance and any repairs to it, so thats a nice little money spinner for the water company/government in the future, especially if the meters are fitted where they are prone to weather related damage.

But if the meter is mine, can I then charge them for using it ?

lugha · 15-04-2012 08:47PM

Ghandee wrote: »

YOU would have no objection?

Who the hell are you? The King of Ireland or something
Why should anyone give a flying fig what you object, or do not object to?

Is this finally some kind of admission from yourself that your a Government shill of some kind?

What are you bleating on about??? Ah, never mind. I doubt if you know yourself.

Ghandee wrote: »

God help us all so if the lying thieving bastards ever discover how to tax us on the air we breathe so:rolleyes:

Maybe you should start a political party that won’t have any taxes or charges on anything? :rolleyes:

Seriously, have you any half credible ideas as to how we might address the current crisis without introducing some new taxes or charges? Or will your only contribution be clownish posts like this one? :rolleyes:

lugha · 15-04-2012 08:48PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Which is caused by.........come on........you can admit it Lugha!:D

Whats you on about F?

Are you having a cut at my opinion that PS wages and SW should not be cut, despite the fact that that is NOT my opinion?

Must have got too much sun today.

oppenheimer1 · 15-04-2012 08:49PM

Stinicker wrote: »

Water = Life, so pay up or die, yes nice idealogy, NeoCon America called its wants its ideology back. Plus it is Ireland its rains practically non-stop and we have more than our fair share of rainfall, it is another stealth tax to bailout the Fianna Fail gamblers I won't be paying.

Water is paid for out of general taxation, and we pay too much of this already, I swear it is if the Government has went and gone Ryanair on the whole country, every little thing is a separate charge now.

Yes it rains a lot but this water you drink comes from the ground and needs to be treated and distributed. Both of these are quite expensive.

Look the government spends a lot more money than it takes in in taxation so taxes have to be raised to fill this gap. A €12bn deficit will require every man woman and child to pay €2666 more in taxes than currently to balance the books. Importantly his deficit would exist if there was no bank bailout.

The reality is taxes on everyone have to rise (especially the poorest because they make up the largest group and least taxed) and it is delusional to think otherwise. The real problem is we've gotten used to a lifestyle we can no longer afford and could never really afford and we have to cut our cloth to measure.

Freddie59 · 15-04-2012 08:51PM

lugha wrote: »

Whats you on about F?

Are you having a cut at my opinion that PS wages and SW should not be cut, despite the fact that that is NOT my opinion?

Must have got too much sun today.

Come on Lugha.......you're nearly there.:D Ah the truth is bitter, innit?

And yet ANOTHER Public Sector quango is formed:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0415/households-to-pay-cost-of-water-meters.html

The Cabinet will discuss the final details of setting up a new public sector body dealing with the country's water supply on Tuesday.
Irish Water will introduce water metering and take over the running of water services from local authorities.

Meters will be installed to 1m households over the next two to three years.
A further 300,000 apartments will not have meters and will pay a fixed charge.

Installation of water meters will begin in the next few months.
The Commission for Energy Regulation will regulate services and will be responsible for determining the cost of charges, the free allowance and the framework for levying charges.

Freddie59 · 15-04-2012 08:54PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Look the government spends a lot more money than it takes in in taxation so taxes have to be raised to fill this gap. A €12bn deficit will require every man woman and child to pay €2666 more in taxes than currently to balance the books. Importantly his deficit would exist if there was no bank bailout.

Delusion is what you've posted above. The deficit is actually some €20Bn, caused by PS/CS pay/"entitlements", for which the country is borrowing €400m every week. At least get your facts straight.

The ones who have gotten used to "a lifestyle we can't afford", as you so eloquently put it, are the cosseted ranks of the Public Sector and Civil Service. For which the rest of us are expected to pay.

The bank debt is completely separate. And pales into insignificance when you consider that, over the next ten years, we will borrow - as a nation - TWO HUNDRED BILLION EURO to keep these wages and "entitlements" at the rate they are now at.

Ghandee · 15-04-2012 08:57PM

lugha wrote: »

What are you bleating on about??? Ah, never mind. I doubt if you know yourself.

Bleatings not my style Lugha, I aint no sheep kind sir.

I merely asked why anyone in Ireland should care because you would have no objection to someone sinking a well in a garden, in order to bypass a water meter.

Like I already asked, what makes your obections or non objections so important, or did you mean you, in the context of you, and the rest of the Government?

lugha wrote: »

Maybe you should start a political party that won’t have any taxes or charges on anything? :rolleyes:

Seriously, have you any half credible ideas as to how we might address the current crisis without introducing some new taxes or charges? Or will your only contribution be clownish posts like this one? :rolleyes:

You see, the trouble with this, as pointed out a good few times on this thread already, is that its not even paying twice for a service (a bad service in my case, I buy 4€ double cartons of water to drink once a week for our house as the water is not drinkable!) we will be payoing for it, renting it, and paying tax on it too.

Like I said already, only the swivel eyed gombeens havent figured out how to implement an oxygen tax, we'd all be breathing in shallow breaths by now.

Your response was very poisoned tbh, dont think you enjoyed being accused of a government shill, even if you didnt actually deny it yet.

This isnt the only thread you've been infecting with propaganda bullshiit either.

Paging blackfrancis, dvpower, allastair and co........

Reinforcements are on the way folks, watch this space.

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 08:58PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

we have to cut our cloth to measure.

Agreed. We need to cut spending by billions. The Croke Park Agreement needs to be ripped up and the unions taken on.

Pensions need to be cut, social welfare needs to be cut, public sector wages need to be cut or numbers cut.

Income tax and corporation tax hikes will also be necessary until we get the 400,000 back to work.

Stinicker · 15-04-2012 09:02PM

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Agreed. We need to cut spending by billions. The Croke Park Agreement needs to be ripped up and the unions taken on.

Pensions need to be cut, social welfare needs to be cut, public sector wages need to be cut or numbers cut.

Income tax and corporation tax hikes will also be necessary until we get the 400,000 back to work.

Yes cut the social welfare bill and cripple the poor even further, are you in Fianna Fail by any chance, maybe cut a few billion from the banks and every other fraudster instead.

Bullseye1 · 15-04-2012 09:07PM

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes cut the social welfare bill and cripple the poor even further, are you in Fianna Fail by any chance, maybe cut a few billion from the banks and every other fraudster instead.

Not a member of any political party.

I'm self employed and my income has been substantially reduced in the past three years. I have sympathy for those on social welfare but we simply cannot afford to pay the current levels. Would you rather that those of us still working pay more tax?

oppenheimer1 · 15-04-2012 09:14PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Delusion is what you've posted above. The deficit is actually some €20Bn, caused by PS/CS pay/"entitlements", for which the country is borrowing €400m every week. At least get your facts straight.

The ones who have gotten used to "a lifestyle we can't afford", as you so eloquently put it, are the cosseted ranks of the Public Sector and Civil Service. For which the rest of us are expected to pay.

The bank debt is completely separate. And pales into insignificance when you consider that, over the next ten years, we will borrow - as a nation - TWO HUNDRED BILLION EURO to keep these wages and "entitlements" at the rate they are now at.

Well we won't be borrowing €200bn as inflation will see to that. What will happen is that we will limp on with static wages and rising prices all the while becoming less well off in real terms. Ireland cannot be a wealthy nation unless we discover something we can do which no other nation can - and our opportunities here are in energy, particularly renewables.

I agree that spending cuts could close the gap, but with such high rates of unemployment this would lead to severe difficulties for many people, pushing them into real poverty. Pay for the PS too could be cut but as a nation we must retain a functioning public sector as far too many people rely and depend on it, hospital strikes lead to dead people for example. An element of reality will have to be brought to the public sector though and in the post Croke Park world there will be further cuts and forced redundancies I imagine.

Politically it would be too painful to achieve all the necessary savings through cuts thats why taxes must rise. Ultimately this means that our collective standard of living will fall. That means the poor becoming poorer, people dying younger, less places in university for young people and larger class sizes among other things. Only when we face up to this reality will we be able to change it.

Bishop_Donal · 15-04-2012 09:19PM

Of course the property owner should pay for the meter. Where the hell else is the money going to come from?

The only mistake that the government are making is this suggestion that householders shouldn't also pay for installation, but I guess that will be factored into the price of the meter.

Here we go again. The leftie loonies who want somebody else to pay for everything for them will be off whinging again. Get over it. It's only a few hundred euro which ultimately is insignificant in terms of what you have to contribute to get this country back on its feet (before we ever repay a penny of the bank bailout).

Let's not go thru it all again. The household charge is in and here to stay, water charges will follow.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-04-2012 09:20PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Fianna Fail should have introduced a water charge and a property tax years ago. Useless c*nts.

The main reason we are in this mess is that FF bought the 1977 general election by abolishing household rates.

Had they not done that then rates would have reduced the cost of houses during the boom.

ilovesleep · 15-04-2012 09:20PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes it rains a lot but this water you drink comes from the ground and needs to be treated and distributed. Both of these are quite expensive.

Look the government spends a lot more money than it takes in in taxation so taxes have to be raised to fill this gap. A €12bn deficit will require every man woman and child to pay €2666 more in taxes than currently to balance the books. Importantly his deficit would exist if there was no bank bailout.

The reality is taxes on everyone have to rise (especially the poorest because they make up the largest group and least taxed) and it is delusional to think otherwise. The real problem is we've gotten used to a lifestyle we can no longer afford and could never really afford and we have to cut our cloth to measure.

2666 is approximately 222 a month and approximately 55 euro a week.

oppenheimer1 · 15-04-2012 09:22PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

2666 is approximately 222 a month and approximately 55 euro a week.

Your point please?

lugha · 15-04-2012 09:25PM

Ghandee wrote: »

I merely asked why anyone in Ireland should care because you would have no objection to someone sinking a well in a garden, in order to bypass a water meter.

I was offering my opinion? That is how discussion boards work didn’t you know. You post something, and that something is your opinion. Would you like me to precede every post I make with “In my opinion:”

Ghandee wrote: »

in the context of you, and the rest of the Government?

You think I am in the government????? I think the sun has been getting to a lot of people today.

Ghandee wrote: »

This isnt the only thread you've been infecting with propaganda bullshiit either.

Again, this is how discussion boards work. Posters with one view offer their opinion and those that disagree refute what they say, or evade it (and your reluctance to answer my question as to what new taxes, if any, you would introduce in the current climate is noted).

Perhaps you would like to go to the ranting and raving forum (if it still exists)? I understand the rules there forbid rants and raves to be challenged. Alas, here you will have to put up with dissenting voices. Ain’t life a bitch?

(If you were more sure of your argument, methinks you wouldn’t be so easily rattled by those that disagree with you

)

Ghandee · 15-04-2012 09:25PM

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Of course the property owner should pay for the meter. Where the hell else is the money going to come from?

The only mistake that the government are making is this suggestion that householders shouldn't also pay for installation, but I guess that will be factored into the price of the meter.

Here we go again. The leftie loonies who want somebody else to pay for everything for them will be off whinging again. Get over it. It's only a few hundred euro which ultimately is insignificant in terms of what you have to contribute to get this country back on its feet (before we ever repay a penny of the bank bailout).

Let's not go thru it all again. The household charge is in and here to stay, water charges will follow.

LOL........

And we're off!

Reinforcements have arrived, the bat signal is shining brighly over FG HQ........

Bishop_Donal · 15-04-2012 09:28PM

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are we not paying already through general taxation??

No.

Someday you'll grasp the reality that we are spending a hell of a lot more than we are raising in tax. The way out is a combination of spending cuts and increases in taxes.

I'm sorry for the NIMBY's like you, but you just need to chip in and pay your share (and your penalties for late payment which will help everyone else a bit).

Households must pay for water meters.

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