Households must pay for water meters.

Bullseye1

Main headline on today's The Sunday Times. Link to story here.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/householders-must-pay-for-water-meter-installation-547549.html?m=false

So not only will you be responsible as a householder to pay for your water but also for the expensive installation of a water meter. Yet again your local authority has let you down through bad planning and development.

Again ask yourself where did all the money go, the millions paid in levies. Why weren't developers forced during planning and construction process to provide meters.

Estimates from government is that it will cost €300-€350 but experts which thr government have none say it will be closer to €500-€600.

Biggins

If true - thats another bill then for every householder in the country - on top of their already household tax.
Aren't FG and Labour great!

A_Sober_Paddy

So what services is this household charge covering?

AboutTwoFiddy

Well I'm glad the government aren't organising these meters, chances are by the time they've had a report complied and paid consultants and all their mates they'd end up paying €2-3k for the meters.

At least this way we can tell them to shag off and to stick their meters up their bottoms. In fairness if we were to meter what comes out of the governments holes and tax them on it we'd be out of austerity pretty pronto.

Logical Fallacy

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

So what services is this household charge covering?

None, it covers your right to pay money because you own a house.

Marvelous system.

Biggins

You might even have to pay a rental fee for the meter - after you have paid for it to be installed?

Talk about really making you pay again and again!

Part of the said (long) article:

Levying the cost of water meters on homeowners will increase the pressure on Phil Hogan, the environment minister, whose job it is to “sell” water charges to the public. Hogan has struggled to convince homeowners to sign up to the new household charge, the precursor to a property tax. Of the estimated 1.72m homes eligible to pay, just 890,000 had signed up by the end of last week.

Yesterday, Niall Collins, the Fianna Fail environment spokesman, said the government should have been honest with voters before last year’s general election if it intended them to pay for their meters as well as for water. “This amounts to the latest instalment of deceit and deception by the government parties in introducing their suite of back-door charges,” he said.

Joe Higgins, the Socialist party leader, said the charges for meters would “just further intensify” the opposition to the household and water levies. He said estimates by the Commission on Taxation and the ESRI suggest the two levies could exceed €1,000 a year when fully applied to the average home.

The department said it would be up to a future water regulator whether to allow homeowners to pay a monthly rental charge instead of an annual fee for their meter. Each household is to be given a “generous” free annual allocation of water, with charges being imposed only once they exceed that allocation.

---

By the way, was at the Galway protest yesterday and what was shown on RTE was NOTHING like what really was happening there.

There was over 2000+ protesters up there and they while loud at the front, all except for a few less than ten, were of peaceful nature - but that didn't stop RTE from clever editing and portraying the whole lot as a bunch of thugs!
...When in fact the thugs were inside the building on their political podiums.

BackScrub

We'll rue the day we gave thick Enda, fascist Phil, slick Leo and absent Eamonn these jobs.

trooney

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

So what services is this household charge covering?

The service provided by high paid local authority managerial staff

Born to Die

Refuse to wash, that will teach them.

Owen_S

This will probably spark the revival of the old water pump.

BackScrub

Owen_S wrote: »

This will probably spark the revival of the old water pump.

We've had enough parish pump politics.

Tom Cruise

Surely as a consumer i have a right not to partake of their water?
Who needs a bath anyway when i have the river Boyne nearby.

AboutTwoFiddy

Biggins wrote: »

By the way, was at the Galway protest yesterday and what was shown on RTE was NOTHING like what really was happening there.

There was over 2000+ protesters up there and they while loud at the front, all except for a few less than ten, were of peaceful nature - but that didn't stop RTE from clever editing and portraying the whole lot as a bunch of thugs!
...When in fact the thugs were inside the building on their political podiums.

But of course, what would you expect Biggins? RTE is controlled by the government, if they step out of line they get their funding cut. Do you really think they're going to p1ss of the government? Not a hope.

Freddie59

And, of course, the people provided with free housing by the Government will get them free of charge. And all so that we can continue to bankroll high Public Sector wages/"entitlements". What a country.

galwayrush

They can repossess my water meter when i don't pay for it..:D

Biggins

Tom Cruise wrote: »

Surely as a consumer i have a right not to partake of their water?
Who needs a bath anyway when i have the river Boyne nearby.

Have you seen the state of the Boyne lately in parts!

galwayrush

Biggins wrote: »

Have you seen the state of the Boyne lately in parts!

Obviously too many people washing in it already:pac:

ilovesleep

This doesn't make any sense. If they must take in water charges would it not make more sense to hit us with a flat rate and forget about metering, especially when meters aren't even being sourced domestically. Ireland is importing them. We are broke and it is more money leaving the economy.

Stupid people in the dail

AntiRip

Owen_S wrote: »

This will probably spark the revival of the old water pump.

I can see the crowd that sink wells doing quite well out of this!

AntiRip

Freddie59 wrote: »

And, of course, the people provided with free housing by the Government will get them free of charge. What a country.

Some of which getting a great wage. I know someone who works in the public sector and because they got a house years ago by the government they were exempt from the household tax and me on btea had to pay. (well I didn't pay )

Kintarō Hattori

Owen_S wrote: »

This will probably spark the revival of the old water pump.

Haven't most community pumps been disabled at this stage? I remember many years ago the local council sending out a notice to all homes that the 2 pumps in the village would be rendered unusable.

This really pissed people off at the time (early to mid 90s) as we suffered frequent water shortages and so people used the pumps to fill up on emergency water.

MickySticks

Jesus these cunts won't be happy until the arse is falling from our trousers. They say the Household Charge is paying for "local services", hmm let me see, we pay for our bins, they're making us pay for water, we pay for the fire brigade and only for the tidy towns committee in my area this place would be in a right mess. Plus we pay extortionate road tax!

So what the fuck are we paying for? The roads are in shite, there's no library in my area and the local school is falling apart.

Gombeens the lot of them, they can tell Merkel and Sarkosy to fuck right off!

A_Sober_Paddy

Surely, there'll be a way of getting free water...circumventing these meters would surely be possible, after all this is Ireland so the meters won't be foolproof

Biggins

MickySticks wrote: »

Jesus these cunts won't be happy until the arse is falling from our trousers. They say the Household Charge is paying for "local services", hmm let me see, we pay for our bins, they're making us pay for water, we pay for the fire brigade and only for the tidy towns committee in my area this place would be in a right mess. Plus we pay extortionate road tax!

So what the fuck are we paying for? The roads are in shite, there's no library in my area and the local school is falling apart.

Gombeens the lot of them, they can tell Merkel and Sarkosy to fuck right off!

They won't tell them to do anything.
They will yet again just do what they are told by their German and French masters like good little lapdogs.

---

Your bill for the meters per household will range from €300 upward then.
On TOP of this, you will be charged a possible yearly 'rental' fee for the meter!

So in total, you will be paying for your meter to be installed, you will be paying your water fee charge (with VAT), you will be paying for the rental fee of the meter (with VAT), you will be paying for your yearly household charge, you will be pay and paying over and over again for household stuff till your pockets are near bled dry of every last cent, by the Irish government.

Don't forget to thank your nearest FG and Labour representative and supporter for all this generous robbing of your money!

Sarn

So they'll charge us for the installation and then have a standing charge. :rolleyes:

Good luck to them trying to get people to pay for the installation.

ilovesleep wrote: »

If they must take in water charges would it not make more sense to hit us with a flat rate and forget about metering, especially when meters aren't even being sourced domestically.

One problem with that is trying to differentiate between large households and small ones. While it would be cheaper in the short term, depending on usage in the long term it could cost more. The other is that a flat fee will lead to wastage as a lot of us would use as much as possible because we'd be paying for it, which would then lead to shortages.

Stinicker

As someone who hasn't paid the household charge I won't be paying this in my 2nd property which is connected to the council mains, incidentally I have also not paid the NPPR (Second home scam tax) either. I just avoid paying and let some other fool pay if they want but I am not. Once government tax or private debt collectors cross the threshold onto my private property to collect such monies then there will be big trouble for them. I am not paying to bailout the friends of Fianna Fail who ruined the country.

I already entombed my mains connection under 2 metres of rebar re-inforced concrete in 2010 after the 1st big freeze to ensure I would have water during the cold snap as the incompetent council workers rose the pipe near the surface when they did it for the shut off valve where it then froze, I sank it down a huge depth and installed my own shut off valve inside my property and then sealed it all over with concrete and rebar, so if Phil Hogan wants to meter me he better have a real good kango or rockbreaker for starters, and a tow truck because for good measure I have parked an old banger right over where the connection used to be!

Kintarō Hattori

Sarn wrote: »

So they'll charge us for the installation and then have a standing charge. :rolleyes:

Good luck to them trying to get people to pay for the installation.

Most likely it'll be taken at source.

As a recent homeowner (March 2011) I just want to say that the government are pissing me off greatly. I won't be voting for FG or Labour next time around and look forward immensely to a politician from either party opening the gate to our front garden.

thebuzz

Seriously, what if you don't actually pay? They can't force you surely and it's hardly an arrestable offence? They can probably try and cut off your water but is that it?

Kintarō Hattori

thebuzz wrote: »

Seriously, what if you don't actually pay? They can't force you surely and it's hardly an arrestable offence? They can probably try and cut off your water but is that all.

Well look at the war of words Phil Hogan has had for the non-payers of the Household Charge. It wouldn't surprise me if they aggressively pursued non-payers of this new tax.

Biggins

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

...I won't be voting for FG or Labour next time around and look forward immensely to a politician from either party opening the gate to our front garden.

Lets be real, they won't show their faces around ANY homes for months, if not years to come.
They will just send out their localised ground party members to do the door to door dirty work, if any needs to be done.

senordingdong

I think they are hoping that this charge, along with all the other crippling charges they are forcing on hard pressed home owners will force those with multiple properties to start flogging them.

They will have to be sold at a loss, but this will provide them with enough hard cash/credit to stop the sky falling in on them, and at the same time, will hopefully get the housing and finance sectors moving again.

Just a thought.

themadchef

Sarn wrote: »

So they'll charge us for the installation and then have a standing charge. :rolleyes:

Good luck to them trying to get people to pay for the installation.



.

Yeah, i heard that fired around alot before the property tax and what? 60% of the country bottled it.

The country will pay, because we always do. We dont like confrontation, we follow the rules. We dont break them. Good little folk of Ireland, until finally we will reach a tipping point, no idea what that will be but it wont be a fúcking water meter.

I didint pay the property tax, i wont pay this.
I pay every cent in tax, and prsi and God knows what else but until the government gets its fúcking act together i say no more. My home is not up for grabs, not on the table. Go take it from the banks.

Fighting Irish

I thought water meters have been put into new builds for years, well except for one off houses

Fighting Irish

AntiRip wrote: »

Some of which getting a great wage. I know someone who works in the public sector and because they got a house years ago by the government they were exempt from the household tax and me on btea had to pay. (well I didn't pay )

Well stop being a moan bag then

Kintarō Hattori

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I thought water meters have been put into new builds for years, well except for one off houses

No I think it's that new builds can easily accommodate a water metre. It was explained to me when we bought our house that it was almost a matter of just bolting a metre into the point which incidentally is just outside my front gate rather than inside the property such as it is in my parents home.

Someone was obviously thinking ahead.

CrazyRabbit

I wonder how they will install the meters without trespassing on private property and, in essence damaging private property (whatever pipes that have to mess around with)?

What's the worst they can do? Turn off the supply from the street? Doesn't take a genius to turn it back on. In fact, I'm sure many enterprising people will offer to do so for a small charge.

donegal_road

MickySticks wrote: »

Jesus these cunts won't be happy until the arse is falling from our trousers. They say the Household Charge is paying for "local services", hmm let me see, we pay for our bins, they're making us pay for water, we pay for the fire brigade and only for the tidy towns committee in my area this place would be in a right mess. Plus we pay extortionate road tax!

So what the fuck are we paying for? The roads are in shite, there's no library in my area and the local school is falling apart.

Gombeens the lot of them, they can tell Merkel and Sarkosy to fuck right off!

but.. how are they supposed to go abroad for ST Patrick's day to represent Ireland? we need to provide them with as much funds as possible for these excursions, no?

AntiRip

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Well stop being a moan bag then

What are you trying to say?

Fighting Irish

AntiRip wrote: »

What are you trying to say?

Weh Weh Weh

Public sector worker got free house
Public sector worker doesn't have to pay the tax

Biggins

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

So what services is this household charge covering?

Its for water.
...O wait, we will pay for that!

Its for rubbish collection.
......O wait, we will already pay for that!

Its for electricity.
......O wait, we will already pay for that!

Its for your gas bill.
......O wait, we will already pay for that!

Its for your roads.
......O wait, we will already pay for that in car tax!

Its for your fire services
......O wait, we will pay for that in call out charges!

Its for your local library.
......O wait, we will already pay for that in yearly fees!


Its for...

Sorry ...fcuk if I know! :mad:

AntiRip

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Weh Weh Weh

Public sector worker got free house
Public sector worker doesn't have to pay the tax

Awh public sector I see. If you weren't just a ... you'd see the point I was trying to make about the unfairness of the tax. Don't bother wasting your time replying to me, I block all knobs like yourself :rolleyes:

donegal_road

see how the sniveling w**kers waited until the household charge was signed up for before they announced this.

Naomi00

So you have to pay for **** quality water...makes loads of sense.

Biggins

donegal_road wrote: »

see how the sniveling w**kers waited until the household charge was signed up for before they announced this.

Yep, they now have 800,000+ names and addresses they can directly send this latest next bill out to.
Let me be blunt - they got you by the balls!

...And thats before even they might hand the whole mess over to a private company later who will then, lets be honest, do even more so what they like and good luck taking them on with their bills as they gradually even further increase!

You might get a free hat though: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/7375/hatwk.jpg

Icepick

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

jetfiremuck

I can see theses meters operating like bord gais. A new gov water dept will be set up.You pay for meter installation. Itll never be your property( the meter). Youll pay a monthly ongoing standing charge and if you dont pay theyll disconnect you, ie take the meter away or lock it. Call out to reconnect at 80€ or so.

galwayrush

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

I like many more paid for our water a long time ago..

Freddie59

jetfiremuck wrote: »

I can see theses meters operating like bord gais. A new gov water dept will be set up.You pay for meter installation. Itll never be your property( the meter). Youll pay a monthly ongoing standing charge and if you dont pay theyll disconnect you, ie take the meter away or lock it. Call out to reconnect at 80€ or so.

Then it will be privatised to a German or French operator.

Stinicker

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

Water = Life, so pay up or die, yes nice idealogy, NeoCon America called its wants its ideology back. Plus it is Ireland its rains practically non-stop and we have more than our fair share of rainfall, it is another stealth tax to bailout the Fianna Fail gamblers I won't be paying.

Water is paid for out of general taxation, and we pay too much of this already, I swear it is if the Government has went and gone Ryanair on the whole country, every little thing is a separate charge now.

Biggins

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

That was a party political broadcast on behalf of the FG and Labour party.
Now back to our regular viewing...

awec

Icepick wrote: »

Water is a product similar to electricity and gas and should have been charged directly a long time ago.

You think you get it free now?