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Miss Universe has a little secret...

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    #302
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    whatever about her/him being allowed in miss universe going by the links given their allowed to compete at the olympic's too


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    #303
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    whatever about her/him being allowed in miss universe going by the links given their allowed to compete at the olympic's too

    I hear they are even allowed to use the same water fountains as normals too! :eek:


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    #304
    jumpguy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    it would improve peoples quality of life as well though

    the state don't pay of contacts afaik & the glasses they pay for i'm not sure if there wareable tbh
    Yes, it would improve people's quality of life. However, there are at least 100,000 (a very conservative guesstimate by myself - search for the correct answer yourself if you like, I'm fairly confident in a country of about 4.5 million it is far larger) who'd probably be eligible for laser eye surgery. Lets say the total cost of the surgery for both eyes is 2000€. A fair estimate. If the state wanted to give laser eye surgery to 100,000 people it'd cost 200,000,000€, or 200 million euro in other words.

    I'm fairly sure the state does at least subsidise contact lenses as well. Probably not the disposable sort though.


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    #305
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    jumpguy wrote: »
    If the state wanted to give laser eye surgery to 100,000 people it'd cost 200,000,000€, or two billion euro in other words.
    Or in other other words, two hundred million.


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    #306
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    angerfist2009 wrote: »
    You can be born a man with the mind of a woman or visa versa and have a sex change and want to live your life as a woman and believe thats what you are
    If you were born with the mind of a woman, then how is it possible for you to believe that you are anything other than a woman, as the mind is where beliefs reside!

    And as for "wanting" to live as a woman - what person born with the mind of a woman wants anything else?! :rolleyes:
    but bottom line is your not a woman your a man who had surgery to look something like a woman.
    That depends on your point of view.

    If your point of view is that, say, genetics trump everything, then your statement is true. However, it is unworkable to have that point of view, as there are some people who are genetically XY who naturally develop into biological females, and some people who are genetically XX who naturally develop into biological males.

    The only point of view regarding identifying someone's gender that can work consistently is to agree with what the person in question says about their gender.
    Far as im concerned i could not care less how my point of view comes across weather its viewed as ignorance
    It does seem to be based on ignorance on the nature of gender. Can you not see that a view based on ignorance isn't as valid as one based on education?
    I wouldnt even normally be arsed to comment on this kinda crap only for the fact any time the word is mentioned on here the same bloody brigade come out in force and parades THERE problems and forces them on everyone else. You either except us or your wrong.......
    You either accept us or we marginalise you. Why? Because we have to! Our choice is to either marginalise you, or marginalise ourselves. The latter is never going to happen.
    I could not give two ****s if your black white man woman gay straight whatever just dont expect the whole world to want to embrace what you are.
    When the whole world rejects who you are don't come crying to me looking for support...


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    #307
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Links234 wrote: »
    I hear they are even allowed to use the same water fountains as normals too! :eek:

    thank for your smart ass reply

    but persons born as men, no matter what operations they've had done or documentation to show their gender should be competing with people born as women at the olympics or vice versa


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    #308
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    If your point of view is that, say, genetics trump everything, then your statement is true. However, it is unworkable to have that point of view, as there are some people who are genetically XY who naturally develop into biological females, and some people who are genetically XX who naturally develop into biological males.

    so your saying a person born as a male can develop naturally into a female

    is this possible?


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    #309
    dominiquecruz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭dominiquecruz


    angerfist2009 wrote: »
    Theres a lot of things i reckon people feel society would be better off without but wont change much in the end.

    No matter what the outcome of this thread will be in the end wont change anything.

    The reason I, and many others, get so frustrated with these kind of opinions and the absolute unwillingness to entertain any other side of the argument is because we believe in a socially progressive society, where every individual is entitled to live a life free of discrimination. Their freedom in no way impinges on your own, so why do you let it bother you?

    Once upon a time women didn't have equal rights; then black people didn't have equal rights; then gay people didn't have equal rights. Would you prefer to exist in a society where we don't actively try to fight and change this kind of bigotry?? Ultimately, we're just trying to make life easier for everybody, and people like you seem to be doing your damn best (for reasons I can't even comprehend) to prevent this.


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    #310
    jumpguy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    grindle wrote: »
    Or in other other words, two hundred million.
    My bad! :o


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    #311
    EGAR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    I have just worked my way through the whole thread and, although I didn't really expect much, seeing that this is AH, the level of ignorance, bigotry, derisiveness and plain stupidity is simply astounding.

    I have no problem whatsoever with transgender women or their competing in beauty pageants or doing whatever else they want to do and the best of luck to them.


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    #312
    RiseToTheTop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    I wonder if they will allow Asian girls in Miss Black America now.


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    #313
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    For Asian girls who undergo treatment and operations to become black, why not?

    (Asinine analogy, asinine response).


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    #314
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    I'm delighted for the kinda people who sit with their lads in their hands watching this dreck. it's ruined for them.


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    #315
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    RichieC wrote: »
    I'm delighted for the kinda people who sit with their lads in their hands watching this dreck. it's ruined for them.

    they could put some sort of star of david thing on her/him so people would know when to stop the bashing


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    #316
    smokedeels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    I imagine few of the bigots here care about the sanctity of the Miss Universe pageant. They are just spewing out nonsense without any sense of empathy for others, or knowledge of facts.

    It's a beauty pageant, these people are women on every level a contest like this would be judged, there is no reason they should not be allowed enter.


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    #317
    Namlub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    they could put some sort of star of david thing on her/him so people would know when to stop the bashing

    A small badge shaped like a penis on their lapel


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    #318
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    they could put some sort of star of david thing on her/him so people would know when to stop the bashing

    FYP


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    #319
    smokedeels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    RichieC wrote: »
    I'm delighted for the kinda people who sit with their lads in their hands watching this dreck. it's ruined for them.

    That's the real fear people have about transgender individuals, accidentally finding one hot.


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    #320
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    smokedeels wrote: »
    That's the real fear people have about transgender individuals, accidentally finding one hot.

    Fear them? More like try and understand why a man would want to undergo surgery and become a woman.

    It doesnt make any sense to me. :confused:


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    #321
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    IrishAm wrote: »
    Fear them? More like try and understand why a man would want to undergo surgery and become a woman.

    It doesnt make any sense to me. :confused:

    Have you done much research on it?

    It's very hard to understand it if you feel you've been born into a body that matches your mind.


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    #322
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    IrishAm wrote: »
    Fear them? More like try and understand why a man would want to undergo surgery and become a woman.

    It doesnt make any sense to me. :confused:

    Sky diving makes no sense to me.


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    #323
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    RichieC wrote: »
    Sky diving makes no sense to me.

    Me neither.


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    #324
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    It's very hard to understand it if you feel you've been born into a body that matches your mind.

    So, its a mental health issue?


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    #325
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    IrishAm wrote: »
    So, its a mental health issue?

    No, it's not, as has been pointed out many times already on this thread.
    Why bother staying with the thread if you're not going to take on board the facts that have been provided and consider changing your mind?

    You're definitely not going to understand transgender people with such an attitude.


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    #326
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    No, it's not, as has been pointed out many times already on this thread.

    Your words seemed to indicate that it was.

    Ever hear of Mike Penner? He started life as a man, then became a woman, then decided he wanted become a man again!


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    #327
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    IrishAm wrote: »
    Your words seemed to indicate that it was.

    Ever hear of Mike Penner? He started life as a man, then became a woman, then decided he wanted become a man again!

    And he was hardly a typical example of a transgender person. His suicide suggests he had some mental issues: either there were underlying issues that made him confused about his identity (as opposed to being certain he was a woman in a man's body), or else were caused by being a genuine transgender individual in a male-dominated profession.

    You can't argue that all transgender people are simply suffering from mental health issues based on his case.


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    #328
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    And he was hardly a typical example of a transgender person. His suicide suggests he had some mental issues: either there were underlying issues that made him confused about his identity (as opposed to being certain he was a woman in a man's body), or else were caused by being a genuine transgender individual in a male-dominated profession.

    You can't argue that all transgender people are simply suffering from mental health issues based on his case.

    I genuinely didnt know he committed suicide. :(
    If I did, I would never have brought his name up.


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    #329
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    IrishAm wrote: »
    So, its a mental health issue?
    I think the point that you seem to not be able to accept is that gender and sex are different. The sex of an individual is very much physically defined, gender is less so and has more societal and engineered attributes. Gender identity is how a person perceives their gender and role in society, and those characteristics are not physically determined.


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    #330
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    Look the more boobs in the universe the better it is for man kind.


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    #331
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    Babybuff wrote: »
    The sex of an individual is very much physically defined, gender is less so and has more societal and engineered attributes. Gender identity is how a person perceives their gender and role in society, and those characteristics are not physically determined.

    You could say the same about nationality. So, lets just say I wanted to become Australian as I felt culturally Australian. Should I just be allowed to change my place of birth on my birth certificate?


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