Miss Universe has a little secret...

Dimithy

IrishAm wrote: »

You could say the same about nationality. So, lets just say I wanted to become Australian as I felt culturally Australian. Should I just be allowed to change my place of birth on my birth certificate?

Exactly the same thing.....

Babybuff

IrishAm wrote: »

You could say the same about nationality. So, lets just say I wanted to become Australian as I felt culturally Australian. Should I just be allowed to change my place of birth on my birth certificate?

no but you could emigrate and after a time become an Australian citizen. After a while immersed in that culture you would probably have developed an Australian accent, maybe married an Australian women and raised Australian kids and yes you are right in that you wouldn't be Australian by birth but you now have the opportunity to become a legally recognised and protected Australian citizen. People do this all the time.

deirdre_dub

batistuta9 wrote: »

so your saying a person born as a male can develop naturally into a female

is this possible?

Yes, though it is more accurate to say that a male can be genetically female, and vice-versa.

Put "xy women" into Google for a number of links on the subject.

Paulie Gualtieri

one things for sure these transgenders have some balls , oh no wait ....

The King of Moo

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

one things for sure these transgenders have some balls , oh no wait ....

You're 334 posts too late.

Paulie Gualtieri

The King of Moo wrote: »

You're 334 posts too late.

just wondering , are you the chairman of gayness ? and transgender issues. because it seems to me your just sitting in front of your laptop waiting to pounce , quite funny really. think you should go for a nice walk and get some air.

How Soon Is Now

deirdre_dub wrote: »

When the whole world rejects who you are don't come crying to me looking for support...

When it happens ill be sure to let you know

This all means so much to you and as usual i can clearly see it means so much to so many people on boards to always be right and to get that little virtual pat on the back for it.

If thats how yous get your kicks by all means enjoy it !

Guess what i am going to do?

I am going to continue living my life as an average young white male with no mental or physical disability s .

I will continue to be who i am and do things how i have my whole life.

There are few people in this world i genuinely care about my family and my friends. Everyone else well best of luck to yous your not my problem

If the day ever comes that i have to deal with something that affects me in this way well we will see what happens wont we.

Until then i could not care less. Ill live my life you live yours.

44leto

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

just wondering , are you the chairman of gayness ? and transgender issues. because it seems to me your just sitting in front of your laptop waiting to pounce , quite funny really. think you should go for a nice walk and get some air.

Ahhh someone else told your stupid and obvious joke before you, now you throw your toys out of your pram.

Paulie Gualtieri

44leto wrote: »

Ahhh someone else told your stupid and obvious joke before you, now you throw your toys out of your pram.

I think I love you

44leto

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

I think I love you

You really shouldn't it will never be reciprocated, move on, its best.

jaja321

angerfist2009 wrote: »

When it happens ill be sure to let you know

This all means so much to you and as usual i can clearly see it means so much to so many people on boards to always be right and to get that little virtual pat on the back for it.

If thats how yous get your kicks by all means enjoy it !

Guess what i am going to do?

I am going to continue living my life as an average young white male with no mental or physical disability s .

I will continue to be who i am and do things how i have my whole life.

There are few people in this world i genuinely care about my family and my friends. Everyone else well best of luck to yous your not my problem

If the day ever comes that i have to deal with something that affects me in this way well we will see what happens wont we.

Until then i could not care less. Ill live my life you live yours.

Hope it stays fine for ya :rolleyes:

Dudess

Yeah transgenders are just ghey...

Easter holidays in fairness.

The King of Moo

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

just wondering , are you the chairman of gayness ? and transgender issues. because it seems to me your just sitting in front of your laptop waiting to pounce , quite funny really. think you should go for a nice walk and get some air.

Chairman of gayness?

Are you 12?

I didn't think the level of debate in this thread could get any lower, but I guess I was wrong.

Everyone knows Elton John is the Chairman of Gayness, at least till the next election anyway.

Paulie Gualtieri

44leto wrote: »

You really shouldn't it will never be reciprocated, move on, its best.

why? I never did anything to you ? ive no problem with any sexual preference or t.v t.s , just dont agree that transgenders should be allowed enter miss universe , thats all , do I deserve to be hated for that ? if I do then go ahead , I dont hate anyone .

44leto

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

why? I never did anything to you ? ive no problem with any sexual preference or t.v t.s , just dont agree that transgenders should be allowed enter miss universe , thats all , do I deserve to be hated for that ? if I do then go ahead , I dont hate anyone .

Hey hate is not the opposite of love, love is not the opposite of hate. Apathy is the opposite of both those conditions. So I neither hate nor love you, I don't care. But that out of the way.

First I don't think there should be a miss world/universe or a lovely girls competition, but if there is, it should be a celebration of femininity, even beautiful femininity. If an entrant feels and medical professionals agree they are feminine they should be allowed to enter.

They are people born wrong, just like a person with a genetic illness, would you hate and discriminate against someone born with Sickle cell, cystic fibrosis or a person born gay or black. Off course you wouldn't because that would IMBECILIC (caps sorry).

Dimithy

angerfist2009 wrote: »

Until then i could not care less. Ill live my life you live yours.

Why do you keep posting in this thread if you dont care?

Paparazzo

Just read through the entire thread, this was the funniest post:

angerfist2009 wrote: »

Maybe if more people spoke there minds there wouldn't be so many two faced ****s going around.

Its really easy to win an argument on here when your agreeing with the rest of the moral police.

You're basically saying it's easy to win an argument if you're morally right! "It's easy to win an argument if you're right". That's your argument! Brilliant.

The whole "just speaking my mind" or "it's just my opinion" thing doesn't work either. It's my opinion that black people should have less rights, rape and murder should be legal. *
But it's my opinion, so it's ok. Ohhh, the moral police will probably come in here and tell me that's wrong. :rolleyes:





*it's not

Paparazzo

Dimithy wrote: »

Why do you keep posting in this thread if you dont care?

Exactly. I don't post in the Archery forum because I don't care about it.

Paulie Gualtieri

I dont agree with transgenders entering a miss universe contest in the same way I wouldnt agree with a straight man entering a Mr. gay universe. because one is a competition for women and the other is a competition for gay men.

The King of Moo

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

I dont agree with transgenders entering a miss universe contest in the same way I wouldnt agree with a straight man entering a Mr. gay universe. because one is a competition for women and the other is a competition for gay men.

In what sense do you consider transgender women not to be women then?
Do you consider them to be still men? If so, based on what criteria?

Anyway, if I'm elected Chairman of Gayness (I know people say they'll never accept a straight Chairman, but they also said there'd never be a black President of the United States) I'll consider changing the rules of Mr. Gay Universe to allow straight men to compete.

Paulie Gualtieri

The King of Moo wrote: »

In what sense do you consider transgender women not to be women then?
Do you consider them to be still men? If so, based on what criteria?

Anyway, if I'm elected Chairman of Gayness (I know people say they'll never accept a straight Chairman, but they also said there'd never be a black President of the United States) I'll consider changing the rules of Mr. Gay Universe to allow straight men to compete.

pounce :rolleyes: see you didnt go for that walk , its nice outside , a woman is born female . and no amount of modification will change that in my eyes. have to keep it short Im frying an egg .

Paulie Gualtieri

The King of Moo wrote: »

In what sense do you consider transgender women not to be women then?
Do you consider them to be still men? If so, based on what criteria?

Anyway, if I'm elected Chairman of Gayness (I know people say they'll never accept a straight Chairman, but they also said there'd never be a black President of the United States) I'll consider changing the rules of Mr. Gay Universe to allow straight men to compete.

and it was nothing to do with straight men being allowed , just dont think it would be fair on the genuine gay men taking part.

The King of Moo

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

pounce :rolleyes: see you didnt go for that walk , its nice outside , a woman is born female . and no amount of modification will change that in my eyes. have to keep it short Im frying an egg .

But what specifically do you think are the characteristics that make a woman a woman?

You can wait till you've finished frying the egg.

xsiborg

to get back on topic:

i think the thread title is misleading, she is NOT miss universe, she is a miss universe candidate.

she also now does not have "a little secret" as it's all over the internet.

i think a poster earlier on in this thread, or i may have read about it somewhere else, made an interesting point, that the contestants should only qualify if they have had no surgical procedures done to alter their bodies, otherwise now we will have a slew of contestants who didnt win this year but maybe if they got implants or got their nose reshaped, etc.

my thoughts on it are that this girl wanted to get attention for herself, and now she has done, in the most blatant way possible. we all know that pageants like these are full of crusty old fuddy duddy's and establishment types, and the media loves the idea that this girl rubbed their noses in it so to speak. god forbid that she might actually choose to educate people instead, as some even on this thread have done.

if anyone here has seen "america's next top model", there was a girl on it called isis who was had undergone transgender surgery and she made no big deal of it, just that each of the girls had their own different story to tell and this was hers. she got in nobody's face about it and didnt scream "discrimination" when she was eliminated from the competition.

44leto asked the question there of would one discriminate against someone based on their color, and it reminded me of an anecdotal experience of my own a few years back when i worked in dell down here in limerick-

it was coming up to the end of shift and with ten minutes to go, we were all itching to get away early, so this guy walks up to the manager and goes-

"i need to go to the toilet"

"can you not wait five minutes?"

"is it 'cause i is black?"

this accusation visibly infuriated the manager who retorted "i couldnt care less if you were blue with yellow spots, now get back in line and wait like the rest of us!".

my point here is that sometimes the discrimination card is thrown about too quickly by those who perceive differences in themselves, that make a point of not seeing that there may be other reasons why people dont let them get their way. it's not always discrimination if somebody doesnt like you. i think the recent "samantha brick" story has proven that more than anything. she perceived people's dislike of her to be something to do with the fact they were threatened by her, not once did she stop and think she might be coming off as a bit of an attention seeking confrontational ass-hat, and that might be why people dont want to be around her or have anything to do with her.

the same could be true here then in this story. how the hell would anyone have known she was transgendered if she hadnt made a point of it herself? they wouldn't. but then she wouldnt have got the attention of the world's media and all the publicity she wanted for herself. she's done better now than if she had ever entered the miss universe pageant!

44leto

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

pounce :rolleyes: see you didnt go for that walk , its nice outside , a woman is born female . and no amount of modification will change that in my eyes. have to keep it short Im frying an egg .

OK so how about a person who is born a hermaphrodite what gender are they????

Links234

IrishAm wrote: »

I genuinely didnt know he committed suicide.
If I did, I would never have brought his name up.

You know that in America, 41% of transgender people have attempted suicide at least once in their lives.

Why do you think that is?

Have a look here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

Injustice at Every Turn: A Report of the National Transgender Discrimination Survey Report Type:
Report


Date:
February 03, 2011


Transgender and gender non-conforming people face rampant discrimination in every area of life: education, employment, family life, public accommodations, housing, health, police and jails, and ID documents. This data is so shocking that it will change the way you think about transgender people and it should change the way you advocate. The National Transgender Discrimination Survey was conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality.

KEY FINDINGS
Hundreds of dramatic findings on the impact of anti-transgender bias are presented in this report. In many cases, a series of bias-related events lead to insurmountable challenges and devastating outcomes for study participants. Several meta-findings are worth noting from the outset:

• Discrimination was pervasive throughout the entire sample, yet the combination of anti-transgender bias and persistent, structural racism was especially devastating. People of color in general fare worse than white participants across the board, with African American transgender respondents faring far worse than all others in most areas examined.

• Respondents lived in extreme poverty. Our sample was nearly four times more likely to have a household income of less than $10,000/ year compared to the general population.

• A staggering 41% of respondents reported attempting suicide compared to 1.6% of the general population,ii with rates rising for those who lost a job due to bias (55%), were harassed/bullied in school (51%), had low household income, or were the victim of physical assault (61%) or sexual assault (64%).

HARASSMENT AND DISCRIMINATION IN EDUCATION

• Those who expressed a transgender identity or gender non-conformity while in grades K-12 reported alarming rates of harassment (78%), physical assault (35%) and sexual violence (12%); harassment was so severe that it led almost one-sixth (15%) to leave a school in K-12 settings or in higher education.

• Respondents who have been harassed and abused by teachers in K-12 settings showed dramatically worse health and other outcomes than those who did not experience such abuse. Peer harassment and abuse also had highly damaging effects.

DISCRIMINATION IN PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS

• Fifty-three percent (53%) of respondents reported being verbally harassed or disrespected in a place of public accommodation, including hotels, restaurants, buses, airports and government agencies.

• Respondents experienced widespread abuse in the public sector, and were often abused at the hands of “helping” professionals and government offi cials. One fifth (22%) were denied equal treatment by a government agency or official; 29% reported police harassment or disrespect; and 12% had been denied equal treatment or harassed by judges or court officials.

Now, I count myself as very lucky. I've never been seriously assualted, nor have I been refused medical treatment because I was trans, but this kind of thing happens. Transgender woman refused treatment at Indiana hospital. But I do have to put up with people shouting things at me from passing cars, I've had someone follow me out of a pub to harrass me, I've had people shoulder-bash into me while passing them on the street. I've had certain "friends" who now can't even be civil towards me any more, some members of my family barely want anything to do with me any more. Just about every time you seen transgender people depicted in films or on tv, it's just absolutely horrible.

And on top of all that, there's people who seem to be utterly obsessed with telling trans people they're "freaks" and take every opportunity they get to say that we are deluded, dysfunctional, mentally ill and whatever else they can come up with.

Links234

xsiborg wrote: »

if anyone here has seen "america's next top model", there was a girl on it called isis who was had undergone transgender surgery and she made no big deal of it, just that each of the girls had their own different story to tell and this was hers. she got in nobody's face about it and didnt scream "discrimination" when she was eliminated from the competition.

that's an awfully big difference, as she was actually allowed to compete in the competition, in the miss universe thing, they initially wouldn't let her compete at all because she was transgender.

Paulie Gualtieri

The King of Moo wrote: »

But what specifically do you think are the characteristics that make a woman a woman?

You can wait till you've finished frying the egg.

its not that I think the transgenders dont have the characteristics, Im sure some of them most probably do , can they not have a miss trans universe and keep it to that. I think the whole thing of them entering besides being unfair to other contestants just blur the the lines of reality , for me anyway , and not saying other people must believe what I believe , its just how I think , wrong or right.

Dimithy

xsiborg wrote: »

to get back on topic:

i think the thread title is misleading, she is NOT miss universe, she is a miss universe candidate.

she also now does not have "a little secret" as it's all over the internet.

i think a poster earlier on in this thread, or i may have read about it somewhere else, made an interesting point, that the contestants should only qualify if they have had no surgical procedures done to alter their bodies, otherwise now we will have a slew of contestants who didnt win this year but maybe if they got implants or got their nose reshaped, etc.

my thoughts on it are that this girl wanted to get attention for herself, and now she has done, in the most blatant way possible. we all know that pageants like these are full of crusty old fuddy duddy's and establishment types, and the media loves the idea that this girl rubbed their noses in it so to speak. god forbid that she might actually choose to educate people instead, as some even on this thread have done.

if anyone here has seen "america's next top model", there was a girl on it called isis who was had undergone transgender surgery and she made no big deal of it, just that each of the girls had their own different story to tell and this was hers. she got in nobody's face about it and didnt scream "discrimination" when she was eliminated from the competition.

44leto asked the question there of would one discriminate against someone based on their color, and it reminded me of an anecdotal experience of my own a few years back when i worked in dell down here in limerick-

it was coming up to the end of shift and with ten minutes to go, we were all itching to get away early, so this guy walks up to the manager and goes-

"i need to go to the toilet"

"can you not wait five minutes?"

"is it 'cause i is black?"

this accusation visibly infuriated the manager who retorted "i couldnt care less if you were blue with yellow spots, now get back in line and wait like the rest of us!".

my point here is that sometimes the discrimination card is thrown about too quickly by those who perceive differences in themselves, that make a point of not seeing that there may be other reasons why people dont let them get their way. it's not always discrimination if somebody doesnt like you. i think the recent "samantha brick" story has proven that more than anything. she perceived people's dislike of her to be something to do with the fact they were threatened by her, not once did she stop and think she might be coming off as a bit of an attention seeking confrontational ass-hat, and that might be why people dont want to be around her or have anything to do with her.

the same could be true here then in this story. how the hell would anyone have known she was transgendered if she hadnt made a point of it herself? they wouldn't. but then she wouldnt have got the attention of the world's media and all the publicity she wanted for herself. she's done better now than if she had ever entered the miss universe pageant!

She was disqualified because she was transgender, thats kinda the point of the whole thing.
Im not really sure any of what you wrote has any relevance to.........anything, really.

Oh, and beauty contest entrant in wanting publicity shocker. How DARE she!!

The King of Moo

Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »

its not that I think the transgenders dont have the characteristics, Im sure some of them most probably do , can they not have a miss trans universe and keep it to that. I think the whole thing of them entering besides being unfair to other contestants just blur the the lines of reality , for me anyway , and not saying other people must believe what I believe , its just how I think , wrong or right.

I see where you're coming from, but I personally don't think it's so unfair. At the end of the day it's a competition of female physical beauty, and you can't really say she doesn't meet those criteria. Physically, she is a woman now, even if she was born physically a man.
And I don't think it'd give her much of an advantage, unless she had extra, purely cosmetic surgery to make herself more physically attractive a woman. But if that were the case, that rule would apply to all of the other contestants too.