Disgusted by Catholics

Delirium · 07-04-2012 10:54PM

qrrgprgua wrote: »

koth wrote: »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

Yes sure.. The catholic church was best mates with the nazis,,sure its common knowledge. That is why the vatican allowed the nazis kill 18% of polish priests, 3000 of them....

Did the vatican talk to nazi germany.. Yes...what choice did they have?.

Get your facts straight and put them in context of the era!!!!

First off, they're not "my facts", they're a matter of history. Secondly, feel free go show where misquoted the text I posted.

I was responding to the incorrect claim that the catholic church always opposed the Nazis. A claim that isn't supported based on the link I posted and which you yourself don't agree with either.

robindch · 07-04-2012 10:59PM

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Did the vatican talk to nazi germany.. Yes...what choice did they have?

Oh, I've no idea, stick to their principles, perhaps?

Like the British did.

qrrgprgua · 07-04-2012 11:00PM

koth wrote: »

First off, they're not "my facts", they're a matter of history. Secondly, feel free go show where misquoted the text I posted.

I was responding to the incorrect claim that the catholic church always opposed the Nazis. A claim that isn't supported based on the link I posted and which you yourself don't agree with either.

As you well know... Nazism evolved, they didn't kill jews day one, they didn't make they plans widely known. They church has had to deal with many political movements.

When the war broke out bishops in eastern europe pleaded with the pope to thread lightly, thousands of catholics were being killed.... It was a case damned if you speak out and damned if you don't condemn the killing. The silence of Pio XII was never an easy silence.... Was he right? Look at europe in wartime

robindch · 07-04-2012 11:31PM

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Nazism evolved, they didn't kill jews day one, they didn't make they plans widely known.

I think most historians would agree that Hitler's 1925 Mein Kampf, and his widely-reported speeches subsequent to that, made his views and suggestions concerning the jews fairly clear.

WolfgangWeisen · 07-04-2012 11:49PM

If the Catholic Church hated the Nazi regime so much, why did they actively help countless scores of Nazi war criminals, including monsters such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Stangl, escape from Germany to Argentina and Brazil?

Turtwig · 08-04-2012 12:01AM

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

If the Catholic Church hated the Nazi regime so much, why did they actively help countless scores of Nazi war criminals, including monsters such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Stangl, escape from Germany to Argentina and Brazil?

Pftt, that was obviously just rehearsal training drills for when all last ditch efforts at cover-ups have failed and the members of their own organisations became embroiled in certain scandals of unspeakable natures.

Declan Lander · 08-04-2012 12:01AM

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

If the Catholic Church hated the Nazi regime so much, why did they actively help countless scores of Nazi war criminals, including monsters such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Stangl, escape from Germany to Argentina and Brazil?

Catholics ? Round em up and gas em i say.

Sonics2k · 08-04-2012 12:08AM

ISAW wrote: »

Try dealing with the actual facts please.

> Believe in all powerful God that created the Universe, but is incapable of showing itself to humanity at large.

> Believes a man was the son of said God. Brutally crucified, stabbed with a large spear, died, get's buried. Magically comes back to life. Nobody but his inner circle of followers see it happen.

> Believes a 900 year old man managed to get two of every animal in the world on a boat, without them killing eachother, and that humanity was wiped out in the process.

WHAT!

ISAW · 08-04-2012 12:18AM

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

If the Catholic Church hated the Nazi regime so much, why did they actively help countless scores of Nazi war criminals, including monsters such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Stangl, escape from Germany to Argentina and Brazil?

They dont believe in the death penalty even today. There were not "countless" scores. if ther were scores that is an oxymoron.

By the way ther is a ceratain Fr O flaherty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_O%27Flaherty

When the Allies arrived in Rome in June 1944, 6,425 of the escapees were still alive. O'Flaherty demanded that German prisoners be treated properly as well. He took a plane to South Africa to meet Italian POWs and to Jerusalem to visit Jewish refugees. Of the 9,700 Jews in Rome, 1,007 had been shipped to Auschwitz. The rest were hidden, 5,000 of them by the official Church − 3,000 in Castel Gandolfo, 200 or 400 (estimates vary) as "members" of the Palatine Guard and some 1,500 in monasteries, convents and colleges. The remaining 3,700 were hidden in private homes

what you might not know is that he assisted Kappler's escape
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Kappler

O Flaherty was aware Kappler converted to catholicism during his trial but advised kappmler not to mention it as thy would think he was lying and using it to get off. i believe O Flaherty actually drove the "getaway" car that brought Kappler back to Germany. It was i suppose assisting a Nazi war criminal to escape but i still think O Flaherty acted nobly.

WolfgangWeisen · 08-04-2012 12:30AM

Speaking of Catholics and Hitler

ISAW · 08-04-2012 12:34AM

koth wrote: »

First off, they're not "my facts", they're a matter of history. Secondly, feel free go show where misquoted the text I posted.

I was responding to the incorrect claim that the catholic church always opposed the Nazis. A claim that isn't supported based on the link I posted and which you yourself don't agree with either.

the link you posted
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#section_3

both Hitler and Mussolini were anticlerical...
Before Hitler rose to power, many Catholic priests and leaders vociferously opposed Nazism on the grounds of its incompatibility with Christian morals...
In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge condemning Nazi ideology...
Summi Pontificatus was the first encyclical released by his successor (Pius XII), in October 1939. This encyclical strongly condemned both racism and totalitarianism...
the original Reichskonkordat (1933) of Germany with the Holy See proscribed any active political participation by the priesthood...

marienbad · 08-04-2012 02:21AM

ISAW wrote: »

They dont believe in the death penalty even today. There were not "countless" scores. if ther were scores that is an oxymoron.

By the way ther is a ceratain Fr O flaherty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_O%27Flaherty

what you might not know is that he assisted Kappler's escape
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Kappler

O Flaherty was aware Kappler converted to catholicism during his trial but advised kappmler not to mention it as thy would think he was lying and using it to get off. i believe O Flaherty actually drove the "getaway" car that brought Kappler back to Germany. It was i suppose assisting a Nazi war criminal to escape but i still think O Flaherty acted nobly.

ISAW , a couple of general points -

-you really must use a better source for your history than that church
history link-

- if Hugh O'Flaherty drove the getaway car for Herbert Kappler then is is a second case of resurrection as Flaherty died in the 60's and the car was used in the 70's.

- You are constantly making a big deal of the Church's opposition to Hitler- never voted for him, excommunicated the nazis, opposed the Nazis in every way, well here are a few more facts for you

Hitler was a catholic

yes they excommunicated nazis but somehow managed to un-excommunicate them after signing a concordat with them

disbanded the major catholic parties after signing that concordat

facilated the escape of nazi war criminals using vatican passports and not on any anti death penaly bulls&*t either.

And there are loads more where those came from . But it was'nt just a black and white situation - people and organisations did things that with hindsight they may have done differently . If you wer'nt so blind to the faults of the church we could have an interesting discussion but that is to much to hope for.

Delirium · 08-04-2012 07:06AM

ISAW wrote: »

koth wrote: »

First off, they're not "my facts", they're a matter of history. Secondly, feel free go show where misquoted the text I posted.

I was responding to the incorrect claim that the catholic church always opposed the Nazis. A claim that isn't supported based on the link I posted and which you yourself don't agree with either.

the link you posted
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#section_3

both Hitler and Mussolini were anticlerical...
Before Hitler rose to power, many Catholic priests and leaders vociferously opposed Nazism on the grounds of its incompatibility with Christian morals...
In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge condemning Nazi ideology...
Summi Pontificatus was the first encyclical released by his successor (Pius XII), in October 1939. This encyclical strongly condemned both racism and totalitarianism...
the original Reichskonkordat (1933) of Germany with the Holy See proscribed any active political participation by the priesthood...

Interesting to see you dropped the text regarding the church working with the nazis. I guess accuracy is only important when it suits your argument.

The nature of the Nazi Party's relations with the Catholic Church is also complicated. Before Hitler rose to power, many Catholic priests and leaders vociferously opposed Nazism on the grounds of its incompatibility with Christian morals. After Hitler took over and rose to power, party membership was not forbidden anymore and the Catholic Church actively looked for opportunities to work together with the Nazi government. At his trial Franz von Papen said that until 1936 the Catholic Church hoped for a Christian alignment to the beneficial aspects he said they saw in national socialism. (This statement came after Pope Pius XII ended Von Papen's appointment as Papal chamberlain and ambassador to the Holy See, but before his restoration under Pope John XXIII.)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

MrPudding · 08-04-2012 09:00AM

Just want to address this slightly pedantic point, which I saw in Marien's post.

ISAW wrote:

There were not "countless" scores. if ther were scores that is an oxymoron.

How can there not be countless scores? A score is merely a grouping of something, 20. It is more than possible to have a countless score of something, there are so many of the thing that it is not possible to count how many groups of 20 there are of the thing. How difficult is that?

I am really glad I have you on ignore, I get just the right amount of your posts, perhaps a little too much, through other peoples quotes, but I am saved from the majority of your irritating pedantic, whatabouttery posts.

MrP

qrrgprgua · 08-04-2012 12:08PM

marienbad wrote: »

facilated the escape of nazi war criminals using vatican passports and not on any anti death penaly bulls&*t either.

The vatican issued passports to jews to allow them escape, they did not offer to nazis....

Can you name one who got such passport???

Doctor DooM · 08-04-2012 12:11PM

MrPudding wrote: »

I am really glad I have you on ignore, I get just the right amount of your posts, perhaps a little too much, through other peoples quotes, but I am saved from the majority of your irritating pedantic, whatabouttery posts.

MrP

Wow, I thought it was just me...

Declan Lander · 08-04-2012 01:35PM

Catholics and Jews all the same. Thankfully most people on this forum get that. Hitler had the right idea about them, just wrong method, far too open. We can learn a lot from his mistakes and do a much cleverer job these days. The media and fashion is our weapon, the young our target, they will continue our work for us. The Jews and Catholics are finished. The tide is turning, and we have them on the ropes.

Sonics2k · 08-04-2012 01:37PM

I am in no way associated with the guy above...

Sarky · 08-04-2012 01:41PM

Well that was just a touch creepy and batsh*t insane.

The Mad Hatter · 08-04-2012 02:49PM

Obvious troll is obvious asshole.

GarIT · 08-04-2012 02:57PM

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Obvious troll is obvious asshole.

They may have some sort of a point if you twist what they say slightly. For the progression of society Catholics as well as all other religions need to be gotten rid of. It needs to be done by education though and converting them, not anything else.

MrPudding · 08-04-2012 02:58PM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Wow, I thought it was just me...

My friend, I think we are merely the early members of a growing band.

MrP

08-04-2012 02:58PM

GarIT wrote: »

They may have some sort of a point if you twist what they say slightly. For the progression of society Catholics as well as all other religions need to be gotten rid of. It needs to be done by education though and converting them, not anything else.

Eh no, they just need to stop being given massive power
not "re-education", good lord, you sound like the chinese reeducation camps
they can do what they like beyond that

GarIT · 08-04-2012 03:04PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Eh no, they just need to stop being given massive power
not "re-education", good lord, you sound like the chinese reeducation camps
they can do what they like beyond that

Catholics will always have a lot of power as long as nearly everyone is Catholic. Once the number of religious schools are reduced there will be a massive turn towards people not having religion. Then they will have less power. The cycle just needs to be broken.

marienbad · 08-04-2012 03:15PM

Declan Lander wrote: »

Catholics and Jews all the same. Thankfully most people on this forum get that. Hitler had the right idea about them, just wrong method, far too open. We can learn a lot from his mistakes and do a much cleverer job these days. The media and fashion is our weapon, the young our target, they will continue our work for us. The Jews and Catholics are finished. The tide is turning, and we have them on the ropes.

Who is ''we'' ?

marienbad · 08-04-2012 03:23PM

qrrgprgua wrote: »

The vatican issued passports to jews to allow them escape, they did not offer to nazis....

Can you name one who got such passport???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)

I can provide you with more is you so require, the role of catholic hierarchy in all of this is quite dismal as even a casual search would have shown you.

robindch · 08-04-2012 03:38PM

Declan Lander wrote: »

Catholics and Jews all the same. Hitler had the right idea about them, just wrong method, far too open. We can learn a lot from his mistakes and do a much cleverer job these days.

"Declan Lander" has been banned temporarily from A+A for that troll/disturbing post. That ban may be extended substantially.

bouncebouncey · 08-04-2012 03:41PM

This isn't the sexual abuse thread or the WII thread.

Is anyone else just disgusted by people that say they are Catholic?

That's the question posed in this thread. It's pretty straight to the point. Are you disgusted by anyone who states they are a Catholic.

Some of the rubbish been talked about WWII and Nazi Germany is completely embarrassing. Honestly it's cringeworthy.

The simplistic views being taken on such a complicated situation are laughable. We have stuff like the Catholic Church should have stood up for their principles 'like the British did'.

I couldn't give a monkeys about religion. However people who state they are Catholic don't disgust me. There are many organisations, religious, sporting, social etc.., that have been involved in things that turn the average members stomach.

To be honest I'm more bothered by people who talk rubbish and make baseless accusations and statements and present them as fact.

Seriously knock the WWII/Nazi stuff on the head unless you actually have real knowledge of what went on. It's gone beyond embarrassing.

marienbad · 08-04-2012 03:44PM

bouncebouncey wrote: »

This isn't the sexual abuse thread or the WII thread.

That's the question posed in this thread. It's pretty straight to the point. Are you disgusted by anyone who states they are a Catholic.

Some of the rubbish been talked about WWII and Nazi Germany is completely embarrassing. Honestly it's cringeworthy.

The simplistic views being taken on such a complicated situation are laughable. We have stuff like the Catholic Church should have stood up for their principles 'like the British did'.

I couldn't give a monkeys about religion. However people who state they are Catholic don't disgust me. There are many organisations, religious, sporting, social etc.., that have been involved in things that turn the average members stomach.

To be honest I'm more bothered by people who talk rubbish and make baseless accusations and statements and present them as fact.

Seriously knock the WWII/Nazi stuff on the head unless you actually have real knowledge of what went on. It's gone beyond embarrassing.

Is that you Mom ?

beerbuddy · 08-04-2012 05:42PM

So im Catholic do you want to take this outside

Disgusted by Catholics

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