Everything Else Hip Hop

Jimmy Iovine · 27-03-2012 12:49am

Jays I can't believe my throwaway comment has resulted in nearly 20 posts about 'Crack a Bottle'. I should never have mentioned it

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conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 1:04am

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

you keep going on about the concept of INAD we have been over this a few times, even on the detox thread i told you it was a good concept but imo a terrible song (the way it sounds).

but what was the need for the pop ft and beat? what could of been a great song turned out commercial as fu*k, the beat and pop ft on INAD made up for the corny-ish hook by em on CAB.

but you know what eminem is like he's always had that element of corny nonsense in his music, its nothing new at all in fact you would expect it from eminem in most of his lead singles from just about all his albums bar recovery really.

INAD wasnt even a dre beat man it was produced by Alex da kid from the uk who's got a history of pop-ish beats for urban artists like rihanna, b.o.b etc. I cant believe for 1 second you think INAD is a better beat than CAB, ye both are nothing special but honestly man i know which one has more hip hop elements than the other that was actually prod by a hip hop legend, its nothing to do with progression , its to with the fact dre sold out and went commercial on INAD.

The concept is very important, it ties a song together. You can not compare CAN with INAD whether you like one or the other or neither. INAD is a better song in general.

Eminem is silly, CAB is corny/wack/crap there is a big difference.

I have no idea who produced it, thanks for telling me. Dre "sold out" and went commercial a long long time before either of these songs.

I can't believe you think CAB is in any way a good song. Say we agree CAB has a better beat the lyrics are still trash.

Also INAD left neither of the two shamed, says it all really.

Alex da kid (never heard of him) appaerently did 2 other em songs, both good he may be heavily influenced by other genres but you cant say it aint hip-hop. Hip-hop is about the mix of genres, especially in the UK.
Skyler who sang on INAD apparently is a song writer and inspired love the way you lie - yes mainly pop and not hip-hop but hardly britney spears or someone else you could classify Dre as selling out.

mufcboy1999 · 27-03-2012 1:04am

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Jays I can't believe my throwaway comment has resulted in nearly 20 posts about 'Crack a Bottle'. I should never have mentioned it .

Lol you know how ish goes Down round here wigga

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 1:05am

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Jays I can't believe my throwaway comment has resulted in nearly 20 posts about 'Crack a Bottle'. I should never have mentioned it .

It is a forum, it made discussion… quite good discussion imo - no insults which is rare.

mufcboy1999 · 27-03-2012 1:10am

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

you keep going on about the concept of INAD we have been over this a few times, even on the detox thread i told you it was a good concept but imo a terrible song (the way it sounds).

but what was the need for the pop ft and beat? what could of been a great song turned out commercial as fu*k, the beat and pop ft on INAD made up for the corny-ish hook by em on CAB.

but you know what eminem is like he's always had that element of corny nonsense in his music, its nothing new at all in fact you would expect it from eminem in most of his lead singles from just about all his albums bar recovery really.

INAD wasnt even a dre beat man it was produced by Alex da kid from the uk who's got a history of pop-ish beats for urban artists like rihanna, b.o.b etc. I cant believe for 1 second you think INAD is a better beat than CAB, ye both are nothing special but honestly man i know which one has more hip hop elements than the other that was actually prod by a hip hop legend, its nothing to do with progression , its to with the fact dre sold out and went commercial on INAD.

The concept is very important, it ties a song together. You can not compare CAN with INAD whether you like one or the other or neither. INAD is a better song in general.

Eminem is silly, CAB is corny/wack/crap there is a big difference.

I have no idea who produced it, thanks for telling me. Dre "sold out" and went commercial a long long time before either of these songs.

I can't believe you think CAB is in any way a good song. Say we agree CAB has a better beat the lyrics are still trash.

I know how important a concept is, obvioulsly you need one to create any song but a ill flow with no beat is incomplete

.

But you think CAB has a better beat now just because I told you Alex da kid produced it? You said in your previous post INAD was a better instrumental ...

I'm not defending the lyrics in CAB but the actual song sounds better and like I said it was a radio single, in most cases for just about any rapper on a major meaningful lyrics are few and far between these days.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 1:15am

"An ill flow"? Do you really think CAB had an ill flow????!?

I did not say it had a better beat (CAB not INAD) - I meant it as an "for arguments sake lets agree" sort of thing so as to make the point that even if the beat is better the lyrics are so unbelievably terrible it is still a much worse song than INAD that and after CAB leaking it left them ashamed of it which did not happen with INAD which says a lot.

I stated I never heard of alex da kidd before, I always stated INAD had a better beat regardless of whether I thought Dre produced it or some english guy did.

Eminem and even 50 and Dre even are not like a lot of other majors, so giving them a pass for nonsense lyrics when it is out of the ordinary for them is not really a good point.

mufcboy1999 · 27-03-2012 1:34am

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

"An ill flow"? Do you really think CAB had an ill flow????!?

I did not say it had a better beat - I meant it as an "for arguments sake lets agree" sort of thing so as to make the point that even if the beat is better the lyrics are so unbelievably terrible it is still a much worse song than INAD that and after CAB leaking it left them ashamed of it which did not happen with INAD which says a lot.

Eminem and even 50 and Dre even are not like a lot of other majors, so giving them a pass for nonsense lyrics when it is out of the ordinary for them is not really a good point.

I meant INAD when I said an ill flow with no beat is incomplete , I taught that was obvious considering Iv been bashing the beat for a few posts now !

.

If I need a doctor makes detox then we will determine wheter or not it says a lot, dre wasn't ashamed of the song man he was piss*d at it being leaked so they had to rush it out hence feeling it didn't deserve the Grammy he never actually said he was ashamed of the actual song.

It was obviously going to be on the relapse album , if it wasn't the label wouldn't of put it out just because of a leak!. Look at the other 100s of songs that are leaked and scrapped !.

As far as nonsense lyrics on singles come on we all know em is a bit of a comedian/ corny(i dont mean that in a bad way either) as far as lyrics for a good porportion of his songs and 50 has the typical gun, hoes and crack talk similar to dre.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 1:45am

INAD has one of eminems best flows for years on it (since his hiatus) and a nice enough beat not bad not great by any means but pretty good. Add to this the good lyrics (solid concept) it is a really good solid song.

Did he say anything about INAD being leaked?

Eminem is silly a lot of the time, but CAB is one of his worst songs ever. There is a difference between silly, corny and nonsensical.

(with silly being most of his work, corny being the whole silly voice phase and nonsensical being CAB and a few other songs)

mufcboy1999 · 27-03-2012 1:54am

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

INAD has one of eminems best flows for years on it (since his hiatus) and a nice enough beat not bad not great by any means but pretty good. Add to this the good lyrics (solid concept) it is a really good solid song.

Did he say anything about INAD being leaked?

Eminem is silly a lot of the time, but CAB is one of his worst songs ever. There is a difference between silly, corny and nonsensical.

(with silly being most of his work, corny being the whole silly voice phase and nonsensical being CAB and a few other songs)

We are going to just have to agree to disagree mate because this obviously just boils down to personal opinion and preference towards the 2 songs, we could literally go back forth all day lol.

Good discussion/debate though both of us have balid points but we might aswell just leave it here before we start repeating ourselves, that's if we already didn't

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MD1990 · 27-03-2012 1:41pm

Crack a Bottle beat is really great imo
INAD is a good track nearly ruined by terrible production

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 4:12pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVhkplp0suY

I know this is old but after properly listening to his music, everything in this video is so true.

PrettyBoy · 27-03-2012 5:10pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I know this is old but after properly listening to his music, everything in this video is so true.

Great video, can't imagine how he must have felt at the time. Really hope Dre brings steps his game up and makes sure Kendricks debut is nothing short of classic.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 5:26pm

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Great video, can't imagine how he must have felt at the time. Really hope Dre brings steps his game up and makes sure Kendricks debut is nothing short of classic.

Section.80 is already a classic, even if Dre does not make his major label debut a classic Kendrick will go on and do a Game and just get bigger and better imo.

Still can't believe I did not like him when I first heard him, I hope I am in the minority although I have heard a few times about how hard he is to get into hopefully Dre helps him produce a classic which goes mainstream but keeps it as solid and not selling out.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 7:59pm

Anybody checked out any of these lists? just came across them a while ago and They're fairly interesting.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-artists.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-alt-art.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-pro-dj.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-lyric.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-lyr-perf.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-songs.html

Theres a few more but they're all fairly accurate imo, apart from wayne even making it on to the greatest rap lyricists list.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 8:20pm

Krs-one at 70!?!?!?!?! on the GOAT list. (ok BDP rank higher, fair enough)

Dre above WTC!?!?

TI above big pun, big l, meth, 50, lupe, ice-t, mobb deep, ras kass, dmx, luda, talib, redman, eazy and rae?

Wtf, that GOAT list goes down hill fast - top 10/20 is pretty good but then it just collapses.

The alt-rap list is pretty solid though. The DJ list is solid too up to around the 40 mark with a few exceptions.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 8:28pm

I don't think Run DMC belong at number one, and KRS should definitely be higher yeah. The Wu should also be in the top 10 but you have to admit it's a way better list than any that's been put up here before *cough MTV cough*.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 8:30pm

Run DMC are top 5 definitely imo, I agree I am not sure about no1 but I am not shocked they got it either.

If you do it the way they made the list breaking up solo work from group work then the rakim and krs-one thing is not as bad as I thought but considering where Dre ranked as a rapper it is still way way off.

I think Krs-one solo deserves higher and Rakim definitely deserves to rank, and rank high solo too.

Some of that list was just added because of the impact they made or their rep. (lil wayne and even GMF and F5, Bambaataa, Blow, E40, Jungle Brothers, Salt N Pepa, Digital Underground) All important, but not deserving of that high a ranking based on skill or output unless you include impact.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 8:35pm

Yeah rakim got number 1 on the lyricists list for both his solo and duo work, the alternative list has to be my favourite one though, 90s alternative hip hop is just excellent.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 8:38pm

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Yeah rakim got number 1 on the lyricists list for both his solo and duo work, the alternative list has to be my favourite one though, 90s alternative hip hop is just excellent.

Yeah if you view all the lists together, they are not bad except the first one which is very off at times.

There is no way Biggie was a better lyricist than 2Pac.

weemcd · 27-03-2012 8:39pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Still can't believe I did not like him when I first heard him, I hope I am in the minority although I have heard a few times about how hard he is to get into hopefully Dre helps him produce a classic which goes mainstream but keeps it as solid and not selling out.

+1
I've heard plenty about section 80 on the likes of this forum and from friends etc. I've only given it a few listens, and haven't been blown away yet. That's not to say I won't get/come round to it, many of my favourite albums now are ones I didn't like after a few listens.

few schmokes and the headphones some night should probably do it :cool:

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 8:42pm

True, I did not like Kanye, 50, PE and a few others for years and now I like them all. Takes me a long time to like some artists and others I love straight away.

Jimmy Iovine · 27-03-2012 8:42pm

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Anybody checked out any of these lists? just came across them a while ago and They're fairly interesting.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-artists.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-alt-art.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-pro-dj.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-lyric.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-lyr-perf.html

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-songs.html

Theres a few more but they're all fairly accurate imo, apart from wayne even making it on to the greatest rap lyricists list.

Pretty good list.

Good to see Fabolous and Jay-Elec getting on the best lyrical performances list.

Also I'm delighted to see my man Chamillionaire getting on the greatest songs list. Looking at the 101-200 there are some unbelievable songs in there too. It's amazing really the amount of top quality songs that have been released over the years.

I think Bog Boi was screwed out of a higher place on a few of the lists. His verse on BOB should have gotten him at least into the top 50 on the performance list.

At least there was no Drake or Nicki Minaj on it this time anyway :P.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 8:44pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Yeah if you view all the lists together, they are not bad except the first one which is very off at times.

There is no way Biggie was a better lyricist than 2Pac.

He just sounds like a better lyricist because of his superior flow, makes the long words he uses sound way better, if pac had a better flow then he'd be higher.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 8:46pm

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

He just sounds like a better lyricist because of his superior flow, makes the long words he uses sound way better, if pac had a better flow then he'd be higher.

True, good point you gotta hand that to Biggie he had one of the nicest flows up there with big pun, Ra, Snoop and Nas.

But that is a lyrical list and Biggie does not touch 2pac in regards to lyrics. If you printed 2pacs lyrics and printed Biggies lyrics there is no comparison.

All in all those are good lists besides the first one in a lot of places outside the top 20 or less and in a few places personally on the whole Biggie outranking 2pac thing for me, but otherwise a pretty good set of lists.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 9:42pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtRoenZw4Fw

Shifu Shi Yan Ming - what is the chances he chose him because it sound like he says "yah na mean?"

mufcboy1999 · 27-03-2012 9:44pm

But that is a lyrical list and Biggie does not touch 2pac in regards to lyrics.

a bit harsh ,they didnt call biggie the punch line king for nothing. imo he was a far Superior lyricist and mc than pac.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 9:52pm

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

a bit harsh ,they didnt call biggie the punch line king for nothing. imo he was a far Superior lyricist and mc than pac.

Ye if you like mainly one dimensional lyrics. I am not saying he was not a great rapper but I would struggle to put him in my top 10 but know most of his lyrics nonetheless.

It is like Blur to Oasis and Beatles to Stones I never understand how someone would pick Biggie, Blur or the Stones as a better artist in general.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 10:16pm

Because some people (including me) find pac repetitive and boring.
Biggie is just more exciting to me, he's certainly in my top ten, he's a better mc than pac but pac is recognised as the better rapper.

conor.hogan.2 · 27-03-2012 10:20pm

Repetitive?
Drugs, crime, girls and fame and is not repetitive?

Fact - Biggie had a much more limited range of topics rapped about than 2pac.

Bobby Baccala · 27-03-2012 10:27pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Repetitive?
Drugs, crime, girls and fame and is not repetitive?

Fact - Biggie had a much more limited range of topics rapped about than 2pac.

Tupacs topics to material ratio was out of proportion completely.

Everything Else Hip Hop

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