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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Options
    #3992
    TreesAreCrowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭TreesAreCrowd


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    I hope the government impose the fines and enforce them.

    +1

    I think the optimal route might be something like using fines and taking those fines from the tax credits of non-payers. They wouldn't feel it to such an extent and the money would flow in accordingly as they haven't any control over their PAYE.

    It would actually work well. 87.5% with fines of up to €1,000, taken directly from tax credits, social welfare or other things they can't interfere with, would end up as a nice bit of revenue for the country. It would also set an example for future necessary austerity measures.


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    #3993
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    TreesAreCrowd wrote: »
    .......fines of up to €1,000, taken directly from tax credits, social welfare or other things they can't interfere with, would end up as a nice bit of revenue for the country. It would also set an example for future necessary austerity measures.

    You mean workers, right? You mean anyone with the ability to hire an accountant and set up a limited company should get a way with not paying? Because that's what will happen. That's what has happened when the public we're burdened with the private debts of gamblers.


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    #3994
    TreesAreCrowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭TreesAreCrowd


    squod wrote: »
    You mean workers, right? You mean anyone with the ability to hire an accountant and set up a limited company should get a way with not paying? Because that's what will happen. That's what has happened when the public we're burdened with the private debts of gamblers.
    Yeah! I'm going to hire an accountant, set up a limited company and have an accountant do my yearly taxes to evade a €100 charge! I'm so smart!

    If that's how they want to go about it, let them at it!


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    #3995
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    I reckon there will be a last minute rush to pay as people panic.

    I hope the government impose the fines and enforce them.

    It's a cornerstone of democracy, that a democratic government can impose any tax it sees fit for the overall good of the country and its future, as opposed to the personal good of some people who refuse to pay.

    Refusal to pay any tax to revenue is a serious matter and fundamentally undermines the state.

    We lost our soverignty in the last few years precisely becaue we weren't able to raise enough taxes or run ourselves properly.

    The only way we can regain the soverignty is by showing the rest of the world, we can pay our way, no matter the cost or the sacrifice.

    The issues around Anglo and the other banks is seperate and will eventually be sorted out, much of it with debt swaps and writedowns.

    But the issue of our current overspend cannot be easily ignored. We cannot keep borrowing as ultimately that will mean higher interest rates, forcing us to borrow even more to keep pace, and we get into a vicious cycle of borrowing to fund previous borrowings and higher interest rates.

    Ultimately some form of property tax, harsh though it is, makes up part of the solution.

    And for those idiots who go to Man Utd games in England every week, or the Aviva every time Ireland players, or Leinster, or go on expensive stags abroad, and so on, and then claim they can't afford to pay, they are the lowest form in my opinion, if I may be permitted to say that.

    They'd rather spend their money in the merchandise shop of old trafford or a strip club in amsterdam, than pay a property tax. Says it all really, me first, country second is their motto. I hope they are pursured to the bitter end, like all tax avoiders who can afford to pay, but choose not to.
    It's a cornerstone of democracy, that a democratic government can impose any tax it sees fit

    Actually it has a mandate from the people not to do as it wants but to do as it people wants the people are telling the goverment that this house hold charge is not what they want so therfore how are the goverment mandated to collect ? it is for the people to decide not the goverment, sheep like you need to get that point . It is the peoples right to govern themselves so long as the majority of the people are against something then it does not matter what the goverment of the day think . so long as the people show the goverment they are against it via protest non paying voting etc.


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    #3996
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    TreesAreCrowd wrote: »
    Yeah! I'm going to hire an accountant, set up a limited company and have an accountant do my yearly taxes to evade a €100 charge! I'm so smart!

    Stop trying to be insulting!! He means people with a limited company will make adjustments on the books to compensate for any transactions relating to fines which is a resonable comment!! which may go way above €100


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    #3997
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    This is funny... stay on topic?? This is exactly the reason why we are fukd today.
    No it's not.
    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Old fashioned catholic beliefs???? Did I mention anything about catholicism or beliefs?? I could not care less how people decide to live.
    You mentioned marriage twice!
    Mr CJ wrote: »
    The point I am making is the incredible waste of money, if this was sorted years ago we would not be as bad as we are today and may not be a need for massive tax hikes. How you think this is irrelevant is confusing to me...
    In case you've missed the news over the past 18 months, they're already on this and a hell of a lot have been caught defrauding the system.


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    #3998
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Actually it has a mandate from the people not to do as it wants but to do as it people wants the people are telling the goverment that this house hold charge is not what they want so therfore how are the goverment mandated to collect ? it is for the people to decide not the goverment, sheep like you need to get that point . It is the peoples right to govern themselves so long as the majority of the people are against something then it does not matter what the goverment of the day think . so long as the people show the goverment they are against it via protest non paying voting etc.

    I think your wasting your time... there will always be the mindless ones out there even willing to pay for the air they breath and argue at how good it is... funny as it may seem but its a hard fact sorry to say


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    #3999
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,750 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Stop trying to be insulting!! He means people with a limited company will make adjustments on the books to compensate for any transactions relating to fines which is a resonable comment!! which may go way above €100

    Some of these people might need to get better accountants so. Part 2 has the big cases.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html


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    #4000
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    TreesAreCrowd wrote: »
    Yeah! I'm going to hire an accountant, set up a limited company and have an accountant do my yearly taxes to evade a €100 charge! I'm so smart!

    You're expecting landlords and speculators to pay this charge then? C'mon. What has history taught you. Tax avoidance by the rich is embraced by FF/FG.


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    #4001
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    smash wrote: »
    No it's not.


    You mentioned marriage twice!


    In case you've missed the news over the past 18 months, they're already on this and a hell of a lot haveen caught defrauding the system.

    Yes I mentioned marriage as the difference between married and un-married with kids is millions of euro loss every year.

    And look at how much money was saved over the last 18 months?????? Multiply that by 10 for the last 10 yrs how many billion has been lost?? Now bare in mind only a fraction of fraudsters have been caught!!

    Is that mind opening up yet even a little to realise what I am saying makes perfect sense??


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    #4002
    TreesAreCrowd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭TreesAreCrowd


    squod wrote: »
    You're expecting landlords and speculators to pay this charge then? C'mon. What has history taught you. Tax avoidance by the rich is embraced by FF/FG.
    The so-called "rich" pay the majority of the tax in this country, without them we would be in an even worse condition.

    A landlord would want to have a significant amount of properties to justify jumping through hoops and hiring accountants to evade these small charges. What % of landlords in the country have more than 1 rented property?


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    #4003
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Actually it has a mandate from the people not to do as it wants but to do as it people wants the people are telling the goverment that this house hold charge is not what they want so therfore how are the goverment mandated to collect ? it is for the people to decide not the goverment, sheep like you need to get that point . It is the peoples right to govern themselves so long as the majority of the people are against something then it does not matter what the goverment of the day think . so long as the people show the goverment they are against it via protest non paying voting etc.

    The last thing we need now is a populist government.

    It was populist governments who got us into this mess lest we forget. And it was populist governments who got the Greek into their mess. Populist governments are ultimately criminals behind it all, sacrificing the long term future of the country for votes at the next election They encourage short termism and people to think only about themselves.

    Yes the government should do what the majority of people want, but within reason. If the majority of people said abolish all tax, only a very bad government would do that.

    Of course a property tax isn't popular. Why do you think successive democratically elected governments have avoided it like the plague? There is no votes in suggesting a property tax be brought in. Wasn't rates something like a property tax in the 1970s? And FF abolished it, and we spent most of the 1980s and 1990s trying to recover from stupid, irresponsible, populist decisions like that.

    This is why the IMF was brought in, to take the tough decisions that our politicians were too cowardly to enact down through the years for fear of losing votes.

    No-one said austerity was going to be easy.


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    #4004
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Some of these people might need to get better accountants so. Part 2 has the big cases.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html

    Look at what happening in NAMA. People are using it to offload their bad debts and transfer assets into different companies.

    Also how many of those defaulters will negotiate with revenue? How many workers do you think will get to negotiate their property taxes in the same fashion?

    One rule for some it seems!


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    #4005
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Yes I mentioned marriage as the difference between married and un-married with kids is millions of euro loss every year.
    What the f*ck are you talking about? Not everyone who has a child outside marriage is single or claiming benefits, come back to reality for god sake!
    Mr CJ wrote: »
    And look at how much money was saved over the last 12 months?????? Multiply that by 10 for the last 10 yrs how many billion has been lost?? Now bare in mind only a fraction of fraudsters have been caught!!
    Yawn, it's not as rampant as you think.
    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Is that mind opening up yet even a little to realise what I am saying makes perfect sense??
    No, no you're not!


  • Options
    #4006
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    TreesAreCrowd wrote: »

    A landlord would want to have a significant amount of properties to justify jumping through hoops and hiring accountants to evade these small charges. What % of landlords in the country have more than 1 rented property?

    See dxhound2005's defaulters list and tell me again how many landlords and speculators do you imagine will avoid this tax.

    These aren't small charges and investors in negative equity won't give two fiddlers about some poxy little fine when compared to their paper losses.


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    #4007
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    smash wrote: »
    What the f*ck are you talking about? Not everyone who has a child outside marriage is single or claiming benefits, come back to reality for god sake!


    Yawn, it's not as rampant as you think.


    No, no you're not!

    continuing from your yawn I think its time for waky waky... if you believe what you just said there


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    #4008
    casio4
    Registered Users Posts: 20,300 ✭✭✭✭casio4


    haven't the time to read through all the posts so maybe this was asked already, what is the penalty for a late payment?


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    #4009
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    casio4 wrote: »
    haven't the time to read through all the posts so maybe this was asked already, what is the penalty for a late payment?
    Firing squad.


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    #4010
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    casio4 wrote: »
    haven't the time to read through all the posts so maybe this was asked already, what is the penalty for a late payment?

    The question should be what is the penalty if you register and pay!!


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    #4011
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Landlords are no more or less tax compliant than anyone else in the state.

    What you often see in this country, is someone fiddling social welfare or something like that, and then saying look at those landlords, aren't they awful.

    No-one is perfect, but pointing fingers or throwing stones, is a poor reaction imo.

    Saying I won't pay because no-one else will, well that's the very definition of being a sheep.

    Each person should decide for themselves if they will pay, and what is there to be gained and lost from paying.

    I have paid and am glad to have done. I don't consider myself a sheep, quite the contrary. I have gone against the majority for something I believe is right, and that is the principle of replacing stamp duty with a property tax, which is the norm in most European countries. If this tax wasn't the norm in other countries, I'd have my reservations, but the fact it is the norm, makes me think Ireland is out of step and not for the first time.


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    #4012
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Yeh will there are some good bondholders who have been reliable supporters for Ireland for decades, and really we want to keep those on side and pay them back.

    Link please.


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    #4013
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    casio4 wrote: »
    haven't the time to read through all the posts so maybe this was asked already, what is the penalty for a late payment?

    Casio try your best to support the hundreds of thousands actually around 1.4 million people by not registering. We won before we will win again with your support.

    If you do want to register and sign yourself up to throw away thousands next yr to our beloved government wait to the last minute. Thanks

    DONT REGISTER DONT PAY


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    #4014
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Link please.

    Not going to even bother with this one, because I get the feeling I'd be here all day giving you a lesson in basic macro economics.


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    #4015
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Link please.
    Link for what?

    Any saver who purchased a National Savings Bond from their local post office.
    Should we be burning these people?


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    #4016
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Casio try your best to support the hundreds of thousands actually around 1.4 million people by not registering. We won before we will win again with your support.

    If you do want to register and sign yourself up to throw away thousands next yr to our beloved government wait to the last minute. Thanks

    DONT REGISTER DONT PAY

    Shooting yourself in the foot.


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    #4017
    barrackali
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭barrackali


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    I reckon there will be a last minute rush to pay as people panic.

    I hope the government impose the fines and enforce them.

    It's a cornerstone of democracy, that a democratic government can impose any tax it sees fit for the overall good of the country and its future, as opposed to the personal good of some people who refuse to pay.

    Refusal to pay any tax to revenue is a serious matter and fundamentally undermines the state.

    We lost our soverignty in the last few years precisely becaue we weren't able to raise enough taxes or run ourselves properly.

    The only way we can regain the soverignty is by showing the rest of the world, we can pay our way, no matter the cost or the sacrifice.

    The issues around Anglo and the other banks is seperate and will eventually be sorted out, much of it with debt swaps and writedowns.

    But the issue of our current overspend cannot be easily ignored. We cannot keep borrowing as ultimately that will mean higher interest rates, forcing us to borrow even more to keep pace, and we get into a vicious cycle of borrowing to fund previous borrowings and higher interest rates.

    Ultimately some form of property tax, harsh though it is, makes up part of the solution.

    And for those idiots who go to Man Utd games in England every week, or the Aviva every time Ireland players, or Leinster, or go on expensive stags abroad, and so on, and then claim they can't afford to pay, they are the lowest form in my opinion, if I may be permitted to say that.

    They'd rather spend their money in the merchandise shop of old trafford or a strip club in amsterdam, than pay a property tax. Says it all really, me first, country second is their motto. I hope they are pursured to the bitter end, like all tax avoiders who can afford to pay, but choose not to.

    I absolutely agree with the above.


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    #4018
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    I reckon there will be a last minute rush to pay as people panic.

    I hope the government impose the fines and enforce them.

    It's a cornerstone of democracy, that a democratic government can impose any tax it sees fit for the overall good of the country and its future, as opposed to the personal good of some people who refuse to pay.

    Refusal to pay any tax to revenue is a serious matter and fundamentally undermines the state.

    We lost our soverignty in the last few years precisely becaue we weren't able to raise enough taxes or run ourselves properly.

    The only way we can regain the soverignty is by showing the rest of the world, we can pay our way, no matter the cost or the sacrifice.

    The issues around Anglo and the other banks is seperate and will eventually be sorted out, much of it with debt swaps and writedowns.

    But the issue of our current overspend cannot be easily ignored. We cannot keep borrowing as ultimately that will mean higher interest rates, forcing us to borrow even more to keep pace, and we get into a vicious cycle of borrowing to fund previous borrowings and higher interest rates.

    Ultimately some form of property tax, harsh though it is, makes up part of the solution.

    And for those idiots who go to Man Utd games in England every week, or the Aviva every time Ireland players, or Leinster, or go on expensive stags abroad, and so on, and then claim they can't afford to pay, they are the lowest form in my opinion, if I may be permitted to say that.

    They'd rather spend their money in the merchandise shop of old trafford or a strip club in amsterdam, than pay a property tax. Says it all really, me first, country second is their motto. I hope they are pursured to the bitter end, like all tax avoiders who can afford to pay, but choose not to.
    plasmaguy, that post is a crock of sh!te,
    "We lost our soverignty in the last few years precisely becaue we weren't able to raise enough taxes or run ourselves properly"....wrong, we rose too much tax!!! and spent it on social welfare and public pay rises....and now we can't raise enough tax due to unemployment, debt default etc. ....but the gov. will still try to get blood from the stone instead of looking at where all the good time money was spent and cutting there first.


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    #4019
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    Link for what?

    Any saver who purchased a National Savings Bond from their local post office.
    Should we be burning these people?

    There was never that amount of money in the Post Office.


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    #4020
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    a property tax, which is the norm in most European countries. If this tax wasn't the norm in other countries, I'd have my reservations, but the fact it is the norm, makes me think Ireland is out of step and not for the first time.

    Council Tax is the norm. Getting something for your money is the norm. Having your constituency run reasonably efficiently is reasonable. What we have here is none of those things.


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    #4021
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There was never that amount of money in the Post Office.
    So should we burn these bondholders?
    How about people who have bought the new National Solidarity Bonds - should we burn these too?


This discussion has been closed.
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