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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]
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all those in favour of the household tax seem to dismiss all arguements against it with one or more of these..."it's a bigger issue", "part of the IMF deal", "we have no choice", 2you want the services but not to pay for them" etc. ...all a load of [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL], we all have choices, the government has choices, the IMF are always available for negotiation if the government so wishes...
The more I think about it the more it amazes me at how good the government are at f*cking over it's own people, how good they are at not bringing white collar criminals to justice, how good they are at wanting to please our european masters, how good they are at hitting the silent, hard working, law abiding, middle income families...but when it comes to the tough decisions how good they are at avoiding these.
When times are good they couldn't govern a toddlers birthday party, now, when money is tight they are the 'bailout pin up boys of europe'....by screwing the people who are the beating heart of this country0 -
Council Tax is the norm. Getting something for your money is the norm. Having your constituency run reasonably efficiently is reasonable. What we have here is none of those things.
There has to be a lot of reforms at council level, such as doing away with useless town councils and joining county councils together and also dealing with the endemic nepotism involved in many county council jobs.
I'd like to see county councils or their replacement solely funded by property or service taxes.
Paye taxes and other taxes should then be used to pay for hospitals, schools, and the like.
Like it or not, we need to change the way we collect tax, and move from boom and bust revenues like stamp duty to consistant means of tax revenue such as property taxes to fund local services.
The government know they can push the people only so far, and they have to reform and rationalise councils, and that has to happen as well.
But at the end of the day, there is no getting away from the need for some form of property or council tax to fund local services such as the fire brigade and all that because most of them are subsidised by central government at the moment.
There is money knocking around this country make no mistake. There are still the mercs and BMWs on the roads, still three holidays a year and still your average Joe Soap throwing away money on things like trips to EPL matches, stags, drink, weekends away, sun holidays and the like.0 -
tayto lover wrote: »There was never that amount of money in the Post Office.
There was about €13.4 billion in State Savings last April and it has probably gone up since.
€ million
Prize Bonds
1,392
3-year Savings Bond
4,548
4-year National Solidarity Bond
37
5½-year Savings Certificate
4,114
10-year National Solidarity Bond
402
Instalment Savings
474
Deposit Accounts
2,455
Total
13,422
People are saving more than they ever did during the bubble and the total of personal savings in the country is around €120 billion.0 -
Izzy Skint wrote: »all those in favour of the household tax seem to dismiss all arguements against it with one or more of these..."it's a bigger issue", "part of the IMF deal", "we have no choice", 2you want the services but not to pay for them" etc. ...all a load of cr@p, we all have choices, the government has choices, the IMF are always available for negotiation if the government so wishes...
The more I think about it the more it amazes me at how good the government are at f*cking over it's own people, how good they are at not bringing white collar criminals to justice, how good they are at wanting to please our european masters, how good they are at hitting the silent, hard working, law abiding, middle income families...but when it comes to the tough decisions how good they are at avoiding these.
When times are good they couldn't govern a toddlers birthday party, now, when money is tight they are the 'bailout pin up boys of europe'....by screwing the people who are the beating heart of this country
And you not paying this tax will do what exactly?
Force the government to borrow more money is the answer. Or else shut down more services such as garda stations and hospitals.
But hey that will be a victory for the anti tax brigade.
Listen, we lost our economic soverignty the minute the IMF came to town. We are in no position to refuse anything they say. That's not cowardice, its economic reality.
People refusing to pay this tax, refusniks if you will, will not help our national situation one bit, they might help their own pockets but that's really all they care about.
Less tax paid to revenue equals country in deeper sh*t.0 -
Squod, I can see you’re pissed at the current state of things – but you are not offering any solutions.
Anyone wanting to influence tax or any other law constructively needs to engage with the process through the political system we have – or come up with a new one, or better still, come up with their own policies and go for election themselves.
Ultimately, it’s votes in the Dail that count – not views expressed an internet forum or even Dail debates. The biggest fault I would find with any Government is setting expectations, being given power and then not using it.
The Government have done part one of the test to increase revenues, by passing the enabling Household Charges legislation. Next comes the angry reaction to this new tax and, finally, the hard bit – implementing it – fully as laid out in the act.
The jury is out on whether Government will demonstrate they have the bottle to tough it out and fully implement the terms of their own new tax legislation.
After all, populism was the mark of the last Government and, although we’ve changed jerseys, the desire to be popular remains.
The ancient Romans ensured popular support with “bread and circuses”, financed by an army that provided plenty of “free” booty. We have no such recourse and, unfortunately, have to pay our way.
Don’t particularly like this “temporary” flat rate household charge myself, or the valuation based property tax that is proposed to follow it.
But what is the alternative – massive civil disobedience of our own legally elected Government?
That’s the reality of our democratic system. Any lucky we are to have it – our ancestors didn’t have it under British occupation nor do people in places like Syria today.
Precisely, what alternative form of democracy are you proposing?0 -
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like I've said before, the amount raised will be a pimple compared to what they owe. That money could be raised 50x in a year with a 1% winning tax on gambling.Force the government to borrow more money is the answer. Or else shut down more services such as garda stations and hospitals.
But hey that will be a victory for the anti tax brigade.
But once introduced it will not go away and will increase over and over again.0 -
like I've said before, the amount raised will be a pimple compared to what they owe. That money could be raised 50x in a year with a 1% winning tax on gambling.
But once introduced it will not go away and will increase over and over again.
You re wasting your time talking to goverment shills, with only 12 % registered Im not surprised there,s an extra two goverment shills on this thread.0 -
golfwallah wrote: »Squod, I can see you’re pissed at the current state of things – but you are not offering any solutions.
I am offering solutions. Jaysus there's whole advisory committees of people I agree with who are just being ignored. The current state of things is awful. The government are out of control IMO.
It doesn't require many words to put my point across. We're paying politicians and senior civil servants vast amounts of money to solve a problem. The solution they're offering makes everyone worse off.
We need a different solution. If they can't provide that solution then they should say so and move aside.0 -
great post, I am not against people getting dole, if you are entitled your entitled, what I am against is longterm / lifers who never worked a day in their life, get all they need for free from social services and are never harassed by welfare or requested to supply proof they are looking for work....and then somebody who finds themselves on the dole for the first time in their life are asked to supply evidence of job applications within weeks of signing on!!.... what about all the lazy, druggie, alcoholic types who have been signing on since they were 18?....social welfare's view is probably something like "it's too much hassel to deal with these people, give them what they want and our jobs will be easier.. we will squeeze the respectful citizen instead!!!"Another example of closed mindedness and lacking a huge amount of cop on!!
I am sick of this conversation... it is not the €100 that is the problem here I can pay that like many of the NO people no problem, the major problem is we are being screwed again to pay of debts caused by people who are walking around scot free without a care in the world while we are being threatened with fines etc and the fact that the government are changing the laws so they can legally rob us from our bit of money that we make.
It would answer them better to change the law to sort out our ridiculous justice system for example but no, they will only act when it suits them!!
The ones who support this get all offended when called morons, fools, cowards etc what else would you call someone who gives a blank cheque to someone or signs an open ended contract without asking questions to people laughing all the way and given themselves pay rises and claiming crazy expenses?? Under other circumstances it would be funny... I just cant fathom what is going on inside some of the supporters brains or even what frame of mind there in.
They have to get money agreed well fck off away from us and put your thinking caps on! For christ sake we need to increase expenditure to support our economy can you not see this??????????????????
For starters the 2 black holes in the state are prisons and social welfare, tackle these things first properly and billions can be saved! Get rid of incentives not to work and for unmarried mothers having more and more babies.
I mean am I the only one that sees this as being bonkers??
What options seem good?????
Option 1
You do things thats suppose to be proper, seek employment, get married have children and be hounded the rest of your life from revenue.
Option 2
Dont bother your hole working be a waster, happy days recieve a pay cheque from the state, then dont bother getting married have a few babies here and there great more money from the state, and wait we are not finished... yes the state will give you a house or they will pay for your rent what more can you ask for??
INSANE!!! These are the things that needs to be nipped in the bud, the waste of money here is beyond believe.
With these kind of systems in place they have the nerve to come looking to get money of us??? Clean up the mess first and sort out these things, if the government need money after the clean up I will gladly pay a property charge!!
Person A works hard for his/her family, sacrifices are made, family life can be disrupted, mortgage to be paid...lets say 700 euro per month...
Person B, also married, couple of kids, plenty of time to look after kids, go to school etc. also in receipt of rent allowance of say 700 euro per month, pays a pittance in rent every week, 20 to 30 euro.
Now, from the governments perspective, A contributes 700 euro p.m. to the state (as we own the banks) and B is costing the state 700 euro p.m. in rent allowance alone, that is a 1400 euro difference, and yet A is expected to pay household tax, B is not even though B will of course benefit from these services too......also, who is more "vulnerable" A or B?mad country we live in!
It is because of scenarios like this that many are so angry and will not pay, there is NO equality in this country.
Those in favour of the hh tax say we need to see the bigger picture, WRONG, we have plenty of fat to cut still left over from the boom years, cut this first, then negotiate with the imf, and whatever needs to be done, so be it, but apply it evenly to ALL, no exceptions!....not a hope in hell that will happen, i know....0 -
great post, I am not against people getting dole, if you are entitled your entitled, what I am against is longterm / lifers who never worked a day in their life, get all they need for free from social services and are never harassed by welfare or requested to supply proof they are looking for work....and then somebody who finds themselves on the dole for the first time in their life are asked to supply evidence of job applications within weeks of signing on!!.... what about all the lazy, druggie, alcoholic types who have been signing on since they were 18?....social welfare's view is probably something like "it's too much hassel to deal with these people, give them what they want and our jobs will be easier.. we will squeeze the respectful citizen instead!!!"Another example of closed mindedness and lacking a huge amount of cop on!!
I am sick of this conversation... it is not the €100 that is the problem here I can pay that like many of the NO people no problem, the major problem is we are being screwed again to pay of debts caused by people who are walking around scot free without a care in the world while we are being threatened with fines etc and the fact that the government are changing the laws so they can legally rob us from our bit of money that we make.
It would answer them better to change the law to sort out our ridiculous justice system for example but no, they will only act when it suits them!!
The ones who support this get all offended when called morons, fools, cowards etc what else would you call someone who gives a blank cheque to someone or signs an open ended contract without asking questions to people laughing all the way and given themselves pay rises and claiming crazy expenses?? Under other circumstances it would be funny... I just cant fathom what is going on inside some of the supporters brains or even what frame of mind there in.
They have to get money agreed well fck off away from us and put your thinking caps on! For christ sake we need to increase expenditure to support our economy can you not see this??????????????????
For starters the 2 black holes in the state are prisons and social welfare, tackle these things first properly and billions can be saved! Get rid of incentives not to work and for unmarried mothers having more and more babies.
I mean am I the only one that sees this as being bonkers??
What options seem good?????
Option 1
You do things thats suppose to be proper, seek employment, get married have children and be hounded the rest of your life from revenue.
Option 2
Dont bother your hole working be a waster, happy days recieve a pay cheque from the state, then dont bother getting married have a few babies here and there great more money from the state, and wait we are not finished... yes the state will give you a house or they will pay for your rent what more can you ask for??
INSANE!!! These are the things that needs to be nipped in the bud, the waste of money here is beyond believe.
With these kind of systems in place they have the nerve to come looking to get money of us??? Clean up the mess first and sort out these things, if the government need money after the clean up I will gladly pay a property charge!!
Person A works hard for his/her family, sacrifices are made, family life can be disrupted, mortgage to be paid...lets say 700 euro per month...
Person B, also married, couple of kids, plenty of time to look after kids, go to school etc. also in receipt of rent allowance of say 700 euro per month, pays a pittance in rent every week, 20 to 30 euro.
Now, from the governments perspective, A contributes 700 euro p.m. to the state (as we own the banks) and B is costing the state 700 euro p.m. in rent allowance alone, that is a 1400 euro difference, and yet A is expected to pay household tax, B is not even though B will of course benefit from these services too......also, who is more "vulnerable" A or B?mad country we live in!
It is because of scenarios like this that many are so angry and will not pay, there is NO equality in this country.
Those in favour of the hh tax say we need to see the bigger picture, WRONG, we have plenty of fat to cut still left over from the boom years, cut this first, then negotiate with the imf, and whatever needs to be done, so be it, but apply it evenly to ALL, no exceptions!....not a hope in hell that will happen, i know....0 -
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Council Tax is the norm. Getting something for your money is the norm. Having your constituency run reasonably efficiently is reasonable. What we have here is none of those things.
Agreed.
But refusing to pay Household Charges is not the answer.
Certainly, there is a need for cost savings and getting better value for money from County Councils.
A start would be more transparency in Council Accounts as to precisely what they are spending money on.
For example, Fingal Co. Co. had a budget of €33.2m under a very general heading of Recreation & Amenity Services in 2011, but they don't reveal how much of this was allocated to golf courses or include a share of interest costs or central overheads.
We need to know the precise activities and amounts being spent on them, if voters are to be enabled make rational decisions at voting time as regards the performance of their councillors.
I believe change will happen, as pressure is applied to public representatives and the right questions are asked of them.
Make the system work by demanding more openness on spending and demanding better performance from councillors - other than having their photos taken at openings, etc.
But throw out the entire system - what's the point of that?0 -
Plasmaguy, i understand what you are saying, if we don't pay this it makes our situation worse, i agree, but what i am saying is that there is plenty of savings that could still be made to substantially reduce our 20 billion deficit...do these FIRST.And you not paying this tax will do what exactly?
Force the government to borrow more money is the answer. Or else shut down more services such as garda stations and hospitals.
But hey that will be a victory for the anti tax brigade.
Listen, we lost our economic soverignty the minute the IMF came to town. We are in no position to refuse anything they say. That's not cowardice, its economic reality.
People refusing to pay this tax, refusniks if you will, will not help our national situation one bit, they might help their own pockets but that's really all they care about.
Less tax paid to revenue equals country in deeper sh*t.
I am not saying close schools, police stations etc., but no one can deny that in every facet of government spending health, security, justice, education and SOCIAL WELFARE there is huge waste plus the pay + pensions are too high and are crippling us....you can not refute this statement.
Every euro i earn goes back out into the economy, EVERY EURO!....thanks to the irish government, bankers, developers and the EU my take home pay has taken a big hit over the past 3/4 years, I have had enough of this, i work hard for my kids and i will not let their lives or future be impacted anymore by government, by taking tax off me they are taking money from my little kids....nobody does that to my family, i have paid enough...good night0 -
dxhound2005 wrote: »People are saving more than they ever did during the bubble and the total of personal savings in the country is around €120 billion.
We've the highest rate of personal savings per capita in the entire eurozone.0 -
dxhound2005 wrote: »There was about €13.4 billion in State Savings last April and it has probably gone up since.
€ million
Prize Bonds
1,392
3-year Savings Bond
4,548
4-year National Solidarity Bond
37
5½-year Savings Certificate
4,114
10-year National Solidarity Bond
402
Instalment Savings
474
Deposit Accounts
2,455
Total
13,422
People are saving more than they ever did during the bubble and the total of personal savings in the country is around €120 billion.
And do you know why....
When the people are fearful and unsure...they hoard.
This crowd in power would not inspire confidence in anyone.
Week after week of broken promises, month after month of foot in mouth gaffs, absolutely no sign of balls to take on all the wastage in the civil service.
Yet here they are back once again after the USC and the pension levy with their hand out for more.
Well they can swivel as far as I am concerned.0 -
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starbelgrade wrote: »We've the highest rate of personal savings per capita in the entire eurozone.
I'd hazard a guess we also have the highest rate of Debt per capita also.
Nate0 -
....., I always seen FF's corrupt behaviour way before the boom yet the majority continued voting them in. Now I see the exact same again if not worse!
The "majority" did not vote for FF over the last 20 odd years, which is why we have had coalitions for so long. The same as the "majority" did not vote for FG or LB in the last election. That is why they too had to compromise their ideals to form the latest coalition.0 -
I am offering solutions. Jaysus there's whole advisory committees of people I agree with who are just being ignored. The current state of things is awful. The government are out of control IMO.
It doesn't require many words to put my point across. We're paying politicians and senior civil servants vast amounts of money to solve a problem. The solution they're offering makes everyone worse off.
We need a different solution. If they can't provide that solution then they should say so and move aside.
What advisory committee are you talking about?
Sure, I agree 100%, the current state of things is awful .... negative equity and all that.
But addressing these issues has to be done step by step - there are no miracle cures.
And even if the present lot made an issue of household charges and went to the country - can't see FF and the Shinners doing any better.
Any other, more realistic, ideas?0 -
TreesAreCrowd wrote: »Yeah! I'm going to hire an accountant, set up a limited company and have an accountant do my yearly taxes to evade a €100 charge! I'm so smart!
If that's how they want to go about it, let them at it!
You're still bleating on about €100, it's not going to stay at that.
The point being made is the paye'r is not going to have an accountant to find a way around this tax. But someone in business who is employing an accountant already, will probably find some way of writing it off as a business expense.0 -
It's threads like this that make me believe we truely are screwed as a country.
Simply too many refusniks who put self before country.
I sincerely hope that as many reasonable people pay as possible and not heed the looney left in this country who are as economic illiterate as you can get, and who ignore current account deficits and instead cause hysteria and panic and fear, which seems to be working well judging by the hysterical I won't pay mob on here.
I suppose it's only a matter of time before they burn down the revenue commissioners like they did in Greece.
That would certainly go down well with the populist brain dead idiots who are against all tax in any shape or form.0 -
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It's threads like this that make me believe we truely are screwed as a country.
Simply too many refusniks who put self before country.
I sincerely hope that as many reasonable people pay as possible and not heed the looney left in this country who are as economic illiterate as you can get, and who ignore current account deficits and instead cause hysteria and panic and fear, which seems to be working well judging by the hysterical I won't pay mob on here.
I suppose it's only a matter of time before they burn down the revenue commissioners like they did in Greece.
That would certainly go down well with the populist brain dead idiots who are against all tax in any shape or form.
The same left all only take the average Industrial wage,Im not a Ula voter, I happen to be a sinn fein voter, but Im glad both parties only draw the average Industrial wage, both parties are far more in touch with ordinary working people,we have some of the most overpaid polticians in the world, enda kenny earns more then Barack Obama, yet the pro household tax posters/shills for some reason never call for a reduction in polticians salaries, and never call for cuts from the top down.0 -
This post was on another anti household tax thread, but I think its worth reposting here.If this was just an annual charge of E100 then I wouldn't oppose it. As a self employed contractor I have paid large trenches of tax and will always pay my tax. This "charge" is an open-ended tax, its going to increase annually and those who are crying "Its only E100 for God's sake" will be crying for years to come when the bill of E1,000/month and up depending on the size of your house lands on the mat. If you think this isn't going to happen.... just wait.
If you think that is crazy.... keep reading.
I oppose this charge on this ground and this ground only, picture this scenario folks....
You've worked hard all your life, raised your children and own a nice home which you worked damn hard for and finally paid off your mortgage. You retire and life is good, your on a fixed income but you have all of your bases covered.
You get ill, it happens when you get old! Your medical bills start to stack up as its not all covered by your medical insurance. The annual bill for the house tax lands in the door, jaysus.... its nearly 12,000/yr! Oh he's only scaremongering now I hear you say! keep reading!!
You have a choice, food, medical bills or the household charge. Your health worsens, more bills. Sherriff comes knocking looking for your tax. He doesn't care your sick he has a job to do. Your up in court for not paying, your ordered to sell your house to pay for the tax.
Now I know this may seem far fetched, but it happens hundreds of times a week all over the US. The tax must be collected people sorry..... they are just doing their job. Now your out on the street.... How the hell could this have happened?? You had it all so carefully planned. If you want to see this happen to you or maybe a parent or family member sit idly by and let the household tax pass. Im not scaremongering, its the truth and I have seen it with my own eyes.
The government will have to get more creative there are hundreds of ways to collect more tax, there are many educated intelligent people in Government and they will come up with something. Just not this very dangerous type of tax. Its so very shortsighted and its a disaster waiting to happen to someone dear or near you.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77562714&postcount=394
One of the best posts I have read on a thread in a while, it hits the nail exactly on the head about how property tax works in the states and how a future property tax could work here in the future, I recommend people watch this property tax foreclosure video, is this the kinda future you want for your friends and relatives and rest of the country?
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More scaremongering.One of the best posts I have read on a thread in a while, it hits the nail exactly on the head about how property tax works in the states and how a future property tax could work here in the future, I recommend people watch this property tax foreclosure video, is this the kinda future you want for your friends and relatives and rest of the country?
There is nothing in the legislation or no suggestion that non payment will lead to foreclosure.0 -
You re wasting your time talking to goverment shills, with only 12 % registered Im not surprised there,s an extra two goverment shills on this thread.
I paid my motor tax a couple of weeks ago, does that make me a shill?
Why do you feel the need to abuse people for paying their taxes?
The beauty of self declaration is you pay it if you want or you dont pay it, its pretty much that simple. I for one will be paying it as I dont want to be fined or have any charges registered against my property, its the same reason I pay my motor tax i.e. I dont want to be fined for not paying it.
I certainly wont be abusing anyone that decides not to pay this charge and I wont be telling anyone to pay it or not to pay it.
And as for those telling people not to pay it because they will be paying far more next year and every year from then on, well they too will be paying the larger property taxes in the next few years and there will be no self declaration with that, it wont be any different from motor tax, stamp duty etc.
Anyone that says they arent paying this charge because of bondholders, or because of some moral reason, well I dont for a second believe that, they are not paying because they dont want to pay its as simple as that they have €100 and they dont want to hand it to the Government.
So for the sake of €100 and the peace of mind I will get I will pay it and then wait with abated breath until next year to see how high my property tax will be as will the rest of the country regardless of whether they pay this charge or not.0 -
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The difference is that Motor tax is not a mandatory tax just because you own a car. You can claim it off the road or use it as a track car and not pay any. You also get to choose how much you want to pay, based on what car you buy. Motor tax is not an ownership tax, and it would be considered a luxury tax too.I paid my motor tax a couple of weeks ago, does that make me a shill?0 -
The same left all only take the average Industrial wage,Im not a Ula voter, I happen to be a sinn fein voter, but Im glad both parties only draw the average Industrial wage, both parties are far more in touch with ordinary working people,we have some of the most overpaid polticians in the world, enda kenny earns more then Barack Obama, yet the pro household tax posters/shills for some reason never call for a reduction in polticians salaries, and never call for cuts from the top down.
Just for the record, I’m not pro household tax or a “shill” (whatever that is) but I am pro democracy and rule of law. That’s why I have registered and paid the household charge (as have 225,000 other households, per radio announcement this morning – i.e. about 14% and growing).
But then, it’s easier to describe people who disagree with your political views in pejorative terms, than to come up with rational argument about the issue.
And for the record, I very much support top down cuts in Government and Council spending (including TD & Ministerial pay) but that doesn’t mean a call for general civil disobedience, such as disregard for democratically passed tax laws.
Yes there is anger about household charges – and rightly so. But politics is the art of the possible and people need to come up with realistic positive solutions, that will find general support, if we are to get the country out of the current financial mess.
The real time for debate on Household Charges was before the general election and before putting the Government into office. That debate is now over – this is the time for implementation, not re-debating the household charge. And, I don’t remember much of an issue being made of Household Charges by Sinn Fein during the general election either as the bulk of public debate centred on getting rid of Fianna Fail.
Both Government and Councils now need to take note of the public anger caused by household charges and do something about it by cutting their own unnecessary spending and bringing the reckless people who caused this mess before the courts.0 -
dxhound2005 wrote: »There was about €13.4 billion in State Savings last April and it has probably gone up since.
€ million
Prize Bonds
1,392
3-year Savings Bond
4,548
4-year National Solidarity Bond
37
5½-year Savings Certificate
4,114
10-year National Solidarity Bond
402
Instalment Savings
474
Deposit Accounts
2,455
Total
13,422
People are saving more than they ever did during the bubble and the total of personal savings in the country is around €120 billion.
When you say "people" you obviously mean some people. The well off. I don't know anyone who is saving. The people I know are put to the pin of their collars to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families. Myself and my wife work and we have two children still in college. We save zero. Every cent is spoken for. So who are these savers then ? I suggest they are the elite super-rich similar to the Galway Tent crowd. They definitely are not working class people.0 -
The same left all only take the average Industrial wage,Im not a Ula voter, I happen to be a sinn fein voter, but Im glad both parties only draw the average Industrial wage, both parties are far more in touch with ordinary working people
Well, that certainly goes a way to explaining the economic illiteracy you've demonstrated on this thread.
BTW, you're not even right about your own Party's policy regarding the average industrial wage - The TD only draws the average wage and the rest goes to the Party - no saving to the State.
Just another example of mis-placed thinking by the average Shinner :rolleyes:0 -
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black francis wrote: »The same left all only take the average Industrial wage,Im not a Ula voter, I happen to be a sinn fein voter, but Im glad both parties only draw the average Industrial wage, both parties are far more in touch with ordinary working people
Well, that certainly goes a way to explaining the economic illiteracy you've demonstrated on this thread.
BTW, you're not even right about your own Party's policy regarding the average industrial wage - The TD only draws the average wage and the rest goes to the Party - no saving to the State.
Just another example of mis-placed thinking by the average Shinner :rolleyes:
This is the third time I'll ask you Francis.
What party are you alignned with?
Your reluctance to answer this has me very sceptical tbh.0
This discussion has been closed.
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