Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

mikom

plasmaguy wrote: »

+1.

A rare example of measured proposals amid a torrent of "I'm not paying it" hysteria.

We should have had a property tax years ago, instead of a stamp duty/pay at the point of purchase tax.

There are still people like me fighting to save this country, whereas others seem to have just given up and written it off.

What a patriot.

tayto lover

plasmaguy wrote: »

+1.

A rare example of measured proposals amid a torrent of "I'm not paying it" hysteria.

We should have had a property tax years ago, instead of a stamp duty/pay at the point of purchase tax.

The problem with the stamp duty tax was always going to be that revenues from it were related to the state of the property market.

So if there was lots of house sales, and expensive house sales at that, stamp duty boomed.

If there hardly any house sales, there was no stamp duty revenue.

The government budgeted in 2008 for example for a certain amount of stamp duty income. When that failed to materiliase because of the crash, they ended up with a massive deficit.

We need to get rid of stamp duty taxes. And replace them with a more reliable consistant revenue stream. Otherwise this country is completely screwed.

There are still people like me fighting to save this country, whereas others seem to have just given up and written it off.

Would you have any idea of when the Stamp Duty i paid is being returned to me then ?

Mr CJ

celticcrash wrote: »

No need to be sorry, you didn't burst my bubble.
He said a few more paid by credit card and internet.
Please dont tell me that its gone up to
2%
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I am actually very suprised it is even at 1% if you consider the average per county who registered would be below 0.5% haha

All these new scare tactics they are trying to use and how they are trying to change the law to make us pay makes me even more determined to not pay!! How dare they carry on like this, lately they are really showing there true colours, I actually thought id never say this but I think these guys are worse than FF!! If they had of been in power the last several yrs they would of been a disaster! To top it all off they treat tax evasion to the equivelant of murder, this government makes me more sick every day!!

Dont Register Dont pay stick to your guns everyone let them FCK OFF

Mr CJ

I also see the poll is gradually increasing every day for the No side

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

I agree with most of this, except for the last part.
They should have gotten their act together sooner and I don't see them getting their act together even now. I predict that we wont have a valuation based property tax until 2004 at least.

I can't see it failing for the simple reason that it has been agreed with the trioka and I think they are keen on a property tax because of the revenue stability it gives. Towards the middle of the year, when we haven't raised the 160m and the government are having to raise the money elsewhere, there will be political pressure to come down hard on the non payers.

Political pressure from whom? The sheep who have paid already? The rest of us will be laughing in your faces, not listening to you. Enjoy your smugness while it lasts, sheep.

greenpilot

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing my view on a poll on Boards. Let's see if more than 50% are compliant on 31 March 2012.

Who has a spare Eur100? Vast majority of people. They just view the night in the Pub as mandatory / their sky TV is mandatory / their three foreign holidays a year are mandatory / eating out a few times a week is mandatory etc etc etc. It's a strange recession in this country when you see how busy the pubs were right over Christmas. Wait til you see the crowds at the Rugby matches...... But oh no, don't ask me to make a pissy little contribution towards putting the country back on a stable footing......

Remember this sheep? Ive got his Hat ready for eating right here....now, where did he go....

squod

dvpower wrote: »

I can't see it failing for the simple reason that it has been agreed with the trioka

Google ''Greece'' and see how protests worked out for them.

Mr CJ

greenpilot wrote: »

Remember this sheep? Ive got his Hat ready for eating right here....now, where did he go....

I see there is a new sheep on the thread to take his place

the groutch

dvpower wrote: »

I predict that we wont have a valuation based property tax until 2004 at least.

how much for that time machine of yours?

dvpower

greenpilot wrote: »

Enjoy your smugness while it lasts, sheep.

I'm not at all smug. I just happen to disagree with you on this issue. Really there is no need for the personal abuse.

smash

The fact that the government want to get a household owners list from the esb shows how incompetent they are. They manage the pps numbers, they pay the benefits, they collect the taxes. And yet they need to go to a private company to get the info? I don't think there's any ps/revenue debt that actually talk to eachother.

dvpower

the groutch wrote: »

how much for that time machine of yours?

You don't need a time machine to make a prediction. Afaik, work on the Property Tax has been slow, so its unlikely that it will be ready for the December budget. I think that will put it back to 2014.

smash

dvpower wrote: »

the groutch wrote: »

how much for that time machine of yours?

You don't need a time machine to make a prediction. Afaik, work on the Property Tax has been slow, so its unlikely that it will be ready for the December budget. I think that will put it back to 2014.

His time machine reference was because you originally said 2004. Apart from that, ready for dec budget? It's already here and next time around it will probably be a valuation tax based on zones which is easy.

dvpower

squod wrote: »

Google ''Greece'' and see how protests worked out for them.

Greece are a basket case. Even with debt writeoffs the yield on Greek debt isnt coming down.
The protests in Greece aren't helping the Greek people at all. Their new property tax is much much higher than ours and theirs is being collected via their electricity bills. Non payers will have their electricity cut off.

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

I'm not at all smug. I just happen to disagree with you on this issue. Really there is no need for the personal abuse.

Ha, you, sir are smugness personified. Its not personal abuse, its my personal opinion. So, apologies if you think I personally abuse you, but take my advice....grow a pair. I also note your comment bthat you now believe that the household charge will be pushed back to 2014....backtracking and u-turn come to mind. I love the smell of victory in the evening!!!:D

dvpower

smash wrote: »

His time machine reference was because you originally said 2004. Apart from that, ready for dec budget? It's already here and next time around it will probably be a valuation tax based on zones which is easy.

Ah right. Typo on my part so.
Time will tell when it'll be introduced.

dvpower

greenpilot wrote: »

Ha, you, sir are smugness personified. Its not personal abuse, its my personal opinion. So, apologies if you think I personally abuse you, but take my advice....grow a pair. I also note your comment bthat you now believe that the household charge will be pushed back to 2014....backtracking and u-turn come to mind. I love the smell of victory in the evening!!!:D

Perhaps you should read my post before you comment.
I believe the full Property Tax, not the Household Charge, will be pushed back to 2014.

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

Greece are a basket case. Even with debt writeoffs the yield on Greek debt isnt coming down.
The protests in Greece aren't helping the Greek people at all. Their new property tax is much much higher than ours and theirs is being collected via their electricity bills. Non payers will have their electricity cut off.

Non payers have their electricity cut off?? Lets see FG try thyat one in rural Ireland. we shall cut the country off fairly quickly. Its only a matter of time when we can shove a bit of reality down the throats of those of you in your tiny bubbles. As a matter of interest dvpower, where in this wonderful country of our do you live??

plasmaguy

robbie7730 wrote: »

If its a few hundred thousand that will struggle with €100, how many will struggle when its €800?

Those who can pay should pay.

For the middle class and wealthy middle class, it may mean going without a couple of trips to Old Trafford every year, or not such a fancy ski resort, or maybe not being able to buy a new BMW, or 3 holidays or something like that.

I just wonder how many who were at the Ireland v Scotland rugby match at the weekend have no intention of paying.

The vast majority of the 1.4 million can pay, its just they know they will have to sacrifice something.

As for those who might struggle when it's at say 800 euro, maybe they won't pay.

My point is if you can pay, you should pay. The arguments about paying back bondholders and all that doesn't stack up, given that we run an 18 billion annual deficit since stamp duty and similar taxes dried up.

There is no possible reason for those who can afford to pay this, not to pay it. The only other people in Europe who oppose paying tax on principle, are the greeks and we know how that ended up, and its probable the same would happen here.

We need to fill an annual 18 billion deficit since the collapse of temporary boom related stamp duty revenues, and a property tax is a crucial first step in that.

In any case many people who can't afford to pay it or are on the dole, don't own property.

dvpower

greenpilot wrote: »

Non payers have their electricity cut off?? Lets see FG try thyat one in rural Ireland.

Last time I checked FG weren't in power in Greece.

Do you have some kind of learning difficulty?

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

Perhaps you should read my post before you comment.
I believe the full Property Tax, not the Household Charge, will be pushed back to 2014.

Tell me, do you work for the ESB?? are you a sparks?? Do you work for a semi state? Im trying to understand your logic or motivation for paying this charge?

psychward

Solar Panel technology is making it so that people in Greece with such a lot of sunshine won't need to be connected to the electricity supply anyway. I know of some houses in the mediterranean already which get all their power exclusively from sunshine and their governments/banks support low interest loans which pay for themselves over 10 years to enable people to go off grid. And the technology involved still has a lot of progress and improvements ahead of it. We however are probably screwed.

smash

plasmaguy wrote: »

We need to fill an annual 18 billion deficit since the collapse of temporary boom related stamp duty revenues, and a property tax is a crucial first step in that.

I don't see them in any way trying to line public service pay to those of other European countries. That would be a good start to reducing the gap between income and spending!

plasmaguy

tayto lover wrote: »

Would you have any idea of when the Stamp Duty i paid is being returned to me then ?

The stamp duty you paid was spent on bench marking and other day to day spending.

The critical mistake clowns like Brian Cowen made when minister for finance was to base all his spending on temporary boom revenues such as stamp duty. He never should have done that, yet another way he screwed up as minister for finance.

There is absolutely no question we need a more permanent consistant tax, probably based on property, that is sound economics.

I think people seem to keep ignoring the elephant in the room, ie the annual 18 billion current account deficit (nothing to do with Anglo and all that).

While I have no problem with people questioning why we should pay back the debts of anglo, aib and boi, that's an entirely different question.

Even if we defaulted on all our debts in the morning, we would still face an annual 18 billion deficit this year, and the next and the year after that.

I think people need to get real about that annual deficit in the current account. Only the economic illiterates think we can wish away that 18 billion or say we shouldn't pay back our debts and that will show 'em.

I don't like paying any tax but I am realistic that we run an annual deficit approaching 20 billion and defaulting wouldn't change that one iota, and that 20 billion has nothing to do with corrupt developers and all that.

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

Last time I checked FG weren't in power in Greece.

Do you have some kind of learning difficulty?

For someone in your 40's, you are fairly dishing out the personal abuse. Sour grapes taste like a bitch, eh.

plasmaguy

smash wrote: »

I don't see them in any way trying to line public service pay to those of other European countries. That would be a good start to reducing the gap between income and spending!

At most it would take 4 billion off the defict, and would take years to negotiate.

Where do we get the other 14 billion from?

plasmaguy

psychward wrote: »

Solar Panel technology is making it so that people in Greece with such a lot of sunshine won't need to be connected to the electricity supply anyway. I know of some houses in the mediterranean already which get all their power exclusively from sunshine and their governments/banks support low interest loans which pay for themselves over 10 years to enable people to go off grid. And the technology involved still has a lot of progress and improvements ahead of it. We however are probably screwed.

So you'd pay perhaps 10,000 euro to install solar panels, just to avoid paying a 100 euro tax? Would it not be easier and cheaper to pay the tax?

Akarinn

No

galwayrush

For a lot of people, 100 euro can be a lot, imagine what it will be like for them when it rises. So by them paying it, they have to cut back in other places, thus spending less, so not going to be much of a net gain for the government when the cost of running the tax is factored in.

smash

plasmaguy wrote: »

At most it would take 4 billion off the defict, and would take years to negotiate.

Where do we get the other 14 billion from?

Better than nothing isn't it, and it sets a precedent for the future. And can you tell me where you're getting the 18bn anual figure? I haven't heard that amount on any of the stations I watch or listen to.