Man Rape

Micky Dolenz · 01-03-2012 04:59PM

amacachi wrote: »

Obviously, because it was one person's word against another.
If the roles were reversed though and both sides agreed and the "perpetrator" said "Yeah she told me to stop but I just carried on" then there'd be a good chance of a conviction.

True.

No doubt it happens, woman on man rape, I could never see a woman over powering me and forcing me into sex unless I was too drunk, drugged to defend myself or restrained somehow.

I wonder has a women ever been convicted of rape here and if so what sentence was handed down.

amacachi · 01-03-2012 05:03PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No doubt it happens, woman on man rape, I could never see a woman over powering me and forcing me into sex unless I was too drunk, drugged to defend myself or restrained somehow.

That's the trouble though, even if someone doesn't physically resist it's still rape.
There's been times I've been blotto drunk and just about managed to not get with someone. Even if she were doing all the running she was too drunk to legally give consent, as was I. However if we both told the truth I would've been in the absolute **** despite her seemingly being more in the wrong.

Micky Dolenz · 01-03-2012 05:06PM

amacachi wrote: »

That's the trouble though, even if someone doesn't physically resist it's still rape.
There's been times I've been blotto drunk and just about managed to not get with someone. Even if she were doing all the running she was too drunk to legally give consent, as was I. However if we both told the truth I would've been in the absolute **** despite her seemingly being more in the wrong.

On that vein. If a guy has sex with his very drunk girlfriend and consent isn't clearly given, would that be rape?

Not a question for you per se, but in general.

hondasam · 01-03-2012 05:17PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

On that vein. If a guy has sex with his very drunk girlfriend and consent isn't clearly given, would that be rape?

Tricky one to answer and not get shot on here.
If she said no then yes, If she said yes but changed her mind and he forced her then it's rape.

Question?

Are all rapes the same? Is rape in a relationship as bad as being attacked by a stranger and raped?

lastlaugh · 01-03-2012 05:22PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

On that vein. If a guy has sex with his very drunk girlfriend and consent isn't clearly given, would that be rape?

Not a question for you per se, but in general.

Consent doesn't necessarily need to be given if it is between a couple I reckon.

I wouldn't imagine many blokes explicitly say "will we have sex now, can I get your consent please?" before having sex.
Maybe some do take advantage of their partner being drunk and fire away regardless but wouldn't be classified as rape in a strict sense of the word.

If you happened accross a very drunk girl somewhere and took advantage, that's a different scenario entirely and would be rape...

amacachi · 01-03-2012 05:23PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

On that vein. If a guy has sex with his very drunk girlfriend and consent isn't clearly given, would that be rape?

Not a question for you per se, but in general.

Yes it is.

The UK Rape Crisis Centre or whatever it's called released some posters with wording "If there's any doubt about whether a woman has drunk too much to give consent, assume she hasn't given it." Any doubt. Think about that for a second. Actually don't, because thinking about it shows that you had some doubt which means you have to assume she hasn't given consent which means if you carry on then you're knowingly having sex with someone you have just assumed hasn't given consent.

There was a case I read mentioned where a phone company signed people up to a contract in a nightclub. Some people sued and the court said anyone who'd had more than 3 drinks wasn't capable of consenting to a contract. Food for thought.

01-03-2012 05:23PM

hondasam wrote: »

Tricky one to answer and not get shot on here.
If she said no then yes, If she said yes but changed her mind and he forced her then it's rape.

Question?

Are all rapes the same? Is rape in a relationship as bad as being attacked by a stranger and raped?

I can't figure out if you're serious or not, but yes, all rape is the same.

PrincessLola · 01-03-2012 05:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't figure out if you're serious or not, but yes, all rape is the same.

In terms of the law I think you get a harsher sentence if you use a weapon or violence though..

But morally, yeah we've moved beyond the days of Rhett Butler dragging his wife up the stairs.

01-03-2012 05:30PM

PrincessLola wrote: »

In terms of the law I think you get a harsher sentence if you use a weapon or violence though..

But morally, yeah we've moved beyond the days of Rhett Butler dragging his wife up the stairs.

Really? I had never heard that before!

hondasam · 01-03-2012 05:31PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I wonder has a women ever been convicted of rape here and if so what sentence was handed down.

There was this one.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=first%20woman%20convicted%20of%20rape%20in%20%20ireland&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNora_Wall&ei=gaNPT5X-NIeBhQf83tWBDA&usg=AFQjCNE8JrIyKpFV2kpiG8hYW0janbmJCA

hondasam · 01-03-2012 05:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't figure out if you're serious or not, but yes, all rape is the same.

Just for example this were the case what would you think? I'm only asking to see what people think.

I was drunk went home with partner started to have sex changed my mind but he went ahead and had sex anyway.

I was coming home from work, got dragged down a lane was raped,beaten and left there.

which is worse, is there a difference or are the both the same?

PrincessLola · 01-03-2012 05:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? I had never heard that before!

Actually I'm not sure, I just thought I was :pac:
I think you'd get an assault charge added on to the rape charge tho..

01-03-2012 05:43PM

hondasam wrote: »

Just for example this were the case what would you think? I'm only asking to see what people think.

I was drunk went home with partner started to have sex changed my mind but he went ahead and had sex anyway.

I was coming home from work, got dragged down a lane was raped,beaten and left there.

which is worse, is there a difference or are the both the same?

Well, both are rape so they're as bad as each other.

Sorry, but you're not going to change my opinion on this.

ibarelycare · 01-03-2012 05:44PM

hondasam wrote: »

Just for example this were the case what would you think? I'm only asking to see what people think.

I was drunk went home with partner started to have sex changed my mind but he went ahead and had sex anyway.

I was coming home from work, got dragged down a lane was raped,beaten and left there.

which is worse, is there a difference or are the both the same?

What do you mean which is worse? Worse for the victim or worse in the eyes of the law?

hondasam · 01-03-2012 05:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, both are rape so they're as bad as each other.

Sorry, but you're not going to change my opinion on this.

I'm not trying to change you opinion, just wanted to see what the general opinion was.

ibarelycare wrote: »

What do you mean which is worse? Worse for the victim or worse in the eyes of the law?

Worse for the victim. Like I said it's just to see if people think some rape is worse than others.

Dravokivich · 01-03-2012 05:48PM

I think HondaSam and Micky are going by the perception by the person that is raped, if they don't actually consider themselves a victim.

amacachi · 01-03-2012 05:50PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think HondaSam and Micky are going by the perception by the person that is raped, if they don't actually consider themselves a victim.

Stockholm syndrome.

ibarelycare · 01-03-2012 05:53PM

hondasam wrote: »

Worse for the victim. Like I said it's just to see if people think some rape is worse than others.

Only a person who has experienced both situations you've mentioned can answer that question.

CrazyRabbit · 01-03-2012 05:57PM

I would only report it for 2 reasons.

1. If the rapist was known to me and I had faith in the Irish justice system to sufficiently punish and rehabilitate the rapist. But, I don't have such faith.

2. If I didn't know the rapist and needed the Gardai's help in tracking them down so that I could punish the person.

Millicent · 01-03-2012 06:01PM

hondasam wrote: »

Worse for the victim. Like I said it's just to see if people think some rape is worse than others.

There may be differences between the effect on the victim--trauma from a loved one as opposed to fear of strangers. I don't think one is better or worse, just different.

Micky Dolenz · 01-03-2012 06:07PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think HondaSam and Micky are going by the perception by the person that is raped, if they don't actually consider themselves a victim.

Not really. I was commenting on one posters story.

According to earlier posts, you are impaired from drinking after a few drinks. It's no wonder it's so difficult to get any sort of conviction here regarding the crime unless it's clear cut.

Millicent · 01-03-2012 06:10PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Not really. I was commenting on one posters story.

According to earlier posts, you are impaired from drinking after a few drinks. It's no wonder it's so difficult to get any sort of conviction here regarding the crime unless it's clear cut.

Therein lies the rub. Unfortunately, rape cases are rarely cut and dry so it allows room for opinion and differing perspectives. It's a tough one to combat or deal with.

midlandsmissus · 01-03-2012 06:49PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Erm..... You weren't raped.

I'm shocked at this thread. To say that to anyone on this thread is out of order.

Rape is not usually black and white where it's a man overpowering you with a gun in a dark alley, most rapes are by acquaintances.

Most people raped by acquaintances are then totally confused and think 'well because it wasn't some-one overpowering me in an alley was it really rape? nobody will believe me'. They may also have feelings for the perpetrator, 'sure he/she can't have meant to do that' which will make them confused and go back to the relationship.

Which is why that lad's story makes perfect sense to me. To say to some-one 'you weren't raped' is hugely damaging, and even if you didn't believe him, you should have exercised more caution in throwing comments like that around :mad:

Micky Dolenz · 01-03-2012 06:56PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I'm shocked at this thread. To say that to anyone on this thread is out of order.

Rape is never black and white where it's a man overpowering you with a gun in a dark alley, most rapes are by acquaintances.

Most people raped by acquaintances are then totally confused and think 'well because it wasn't some-one overpowering me in an alley was it really rape? nobody will believe me'. They may also have feelings for the perpetrator, 'sure he/she can't have meant to do that' which will make them confused and go back to the relationship.

Which is why that lad's story makes perfect sense to me. To say to some-one 'you weren't raped' is hugely damaging, and even if you didn't believe him, you should have exercised more caution in throwing comments like that around :mad:

Did you read the entire post?There was no going back into a relationship. this was their first encounter. All a bit casual and in my opinion does more to harm genuine victims of the crime. Accusations of rape are very serious.

Robdude · 01-03-2012 07:02PM

I'm a guy.
By every legal definition I've ever seen; I was raped.
If the genders were reversed, everyone would agree that I was raped.

I didn't report it. Not because I was 'afraid' or anything, but more because I pitied the girl that did it. I guess it's all perspective. As a guy, I wasn't raised to think sex was a big deal. I was pissed that no condom was used and I had to go and get tested to ensure I hadn't caught an STD - but eh, it wasn't a big deal.

I didn't see her as an evil monster. I saw her as a pretty nice girl who was desperate for affection. She had pretty horrible birth defect that made her look like hell from the neck up. Take that away, and I'd have loved to date her. I think she felt that, if we'd hooked up, we'd be together.

I immediately stopped talking to her, but even though it's been 7-8 years, she is still on my Facebook list. She went on to get married and have kids. She seems like a well-adjusted, normal, Mother and Wife. Not exactly a cold-blooded rapist.

Of course, reverse the genders, and nobody would ever say such a thing. It's funny how sexist we all are. If a *GUY* is misguided, confused, lonely and desperate and takes advantage of a girl, he's a monster. Reverse the genders and you'll have an army of people explaining how it WAS NOT rape and 'DUDE IF IT WERE RAPE WHY DIDN'T YOU PUNCH HER?!'

Still, it was very much 'date rape' and not 'violent rape' which I think is an important distinction.

Millicent · 01-03-2012 07:04PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Did you read the entire post?There was no going back into a relationship. this was their first encounter. All a bit casual and in my opinion does more to harm genuine victims of the crime. Accusations of rape are very serious.

I dunno--I think the post needs context. If the poster perhaps had faced sexual abuse in the past, he may be preconditioned to accept an action like that as "normal". Or he may only have realised that it was a rape upon reflection. The power of denial is very strong and a relationship may have been a measure to "validate" the assault in some way, to go some way towards convincing himself that his sexual space had not been violated and a wrong hadn't been done to him.

On the other hand, he may have been being facetious. Hard to say without knowing more.

fryup · 01-03-2012 07:06PM

my local parish priest said if i reported it i'd go straight to hell

then he gave me a sweetie and patted me on the head:)

Millicent · 01-03-2012 07:06PM

Robdude wrote: »

I'm a guy.
By every legal definition I've ever seen; I was raped.
If the genders were reversed, everyone would agree that I was raped.

I didn't report it. Not because I was 'afraid' or anything, but more because I pitied the girl that did it. I guess it's all perspective. As a guy, I wasn't raised to think sex was a big deal. I was pissed that no condom was used and I had to go and get tested to ensure I hadn't caught an STD - but eh, it wasn't a big deal.

I didn't see her as an evil monster. I saw her as a pretty nice girl who was desperate for affection. She had pretty horrible birth defect that made her look like hell from the neck up. Take that away, and I'd have loved to date her. I think she felt that, if we'd hooked up, we'd be together.

I immediately stopped talking to her, but even though it's been 7-8 years, she is still on my Facebook list. She went on to get married and have kids. She seems like a well-adjusted, normal, Mother and Wife. Not exactly a cold-blooded rapist.

Of course, reverse the genders, and nobody would ever say such a thing. It's funny how sexist we all are. If a *GUY* is misguided, confused, lonely and desperate and takes advantage of a girl, he's a monster. Reverse the genders and you'll have an army of people explaining how it WAS NOT rape and 'DUDE IF IT WERE RAPE WHY DIDN'T YOU PUNCH HER?!'

Still, it was very much 'date rape' and not 'violent rape' which I think is an important distinction.

You can't measure everyone's reaction by your own experience. To me, that girl is a criminal and no amount of excuses or sadness are in any way a get-out clause for a rapist of either gender.

44leto · 01-03-2012 07:06PM

Robdude wrote: »

I'm a guy.
By every legal definition I've ever seen; I was raped.
If the genders were reversed, everyone would agree that I was raped.

I didn't report it. Not because I was 'afraid' or anything, but more because I pitied the girl that did it. I guess it's all perspective. As a guy, I wasn't raised to think sex was a big deal. I was pissed that no condom was used and I had to go and get tested to ensure I hadn't caught an STD - but eh, it wasn't a big deal.

I didn't see her as an evil monster. I saw her as a pretty nice girl who was desperate for affection. She had pretty horrible birth defect that made her look like hell from the neck up. Take that away, and I'd have loved to date her. I think she felt that, if we'd hooked up, we'd be together.

I immediately stopped talking to her, but even though it's been 7-8 years, she is still on my Facebook list. She went on to get married and have kids. She seems like a well-adjusted, normal, Mother and Wife. Not exactly a cold-blooded rapist.

Of course, reverse the genders, and nobody would ever say such a thing. It's funny how sexist we all are. If a *GUY* is misguided, confused, lonely and desperate and takes advantage of a girl, he's a monster. Reverse the genders and you'll have an army of people explaining how it WAS NOT rape and 'DUDE IF IT WERE RAPE WHY DIDN'T YOU PUNCH HER?!'

Still, it was very much 'date rape' and not 'violent rape' which I think is an important distinction.

Do you mind me asking, how were you raped, ???

midlandsmissus · 01-03-2012 07:08PM

djrichard wrote: »

Dont agree with this at all. Although for some victims, perhaps it does affect them in such a way that they may feel suicidal.

I have had this discussion with some friends previously. Turns out that two of the girls in the group had been raped before. Both of them said they felt that the emotions they felt were nothing like they had expected. For both of them, and I believe them, said the worst part was having to deal with the few people that found out about it, because they were the ones making the big fuss over them, constantly looking out for them and enquiring if they were ok. They wished they had not told anyone because as far as they were concerned, it was just like being mugged for property. An awful experience, but something you just deal with and put behind you as best you can. In fact, one of the girls actually displayed quite a bit of contempt for me when I said that not everyone would be as strong mentally as she was, and that being raped could ruin some peoples lives. She didnt hide her disgust for that, stating that they were pathetic attention seekers and how was it all that bad. She said it didnt make her mistrust men in general, but that she was much more careful in the situation she allowed herself to be in.

Its obviously different for everyone, but to say its worse than murder and state its worse to have such a corrupted life back at all, is the kind of hysterical response that these girls detested. When you say it destroys your soul, what on earth are you talking about, what is a soul? I dont mean that in a partonising way, but if youre going to have a serious discussion, then at least keep it factual. To help you understand what I mean, I enquired as to the definition of a soul. This is the definition "A soul is Divine energy, a little piece of God within you. Your inner identity, your raison d'être". You see what I mean? Soul.....ridiculous.

I'm also enraged at this post. How could you who has not been raped know what these girls are feeling? ,

I would gather from reading their responses that their rape happened a long time ago, because after time passes you do want to get on with your life, you want to forget about it, and you want to pretend to yourself and others that it was not a big deal. They are distancing themselves from it in order to cope.

Imagine yourself being pinned down and raped while the person laughs at you in contempt. Do you think that would ever not be a big deal?

Her last statement about other girls is also textbook. When you have been through a sexual assault you are angry at everything. And you especially have no time for other girl's who have been sexually assaulted. You're so damaged and want to seperate yourself from what happened that you can't bear to think about other people's sexual assaults, as it reminds you of your own.

That's why the worst person to go to when you've been sexually assaulted is another girl who has been through something, as they are angry and will say, (and this happened to me), "Get over it", "Mine was worse", "How can you compare yourself to me, mine was alot worse and I'm over it" - this same girl while having a really aggressive front, was afraid of men and would jump when touched by anyone clearly wasn't anyway over it. I was like 'how could she say that to me?' when I needed love and support, but I can see now that she couldn't bear to be reminded of her own experience.

Maybe that's hopefully one positive thing in going through what I did, in that I can clear up some misconceptions on here.

It is singularly the worst thing I ever went through in my life, and the worst thing you can ever do to some-one.

MM.

Man Rape

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