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Meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder . . .

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    #62
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Ambient Occlusion wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Man has the advantage of awareness that no animals can really compare to now or in the past. IE. There is a good chance that we will be able to predict an extinction event and avoid it, unless it's our own fault of course!
    We've already started one.

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v471/n7336/full/nature09678.html


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    #63
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Mmmm *slobber*


    I take it you haven't seen polar bears in action then. Good luck with that theory when a half ton of the larget land carnivore that blends in perfectly with its surroundings pops out of snow drift ten feet away wearing a napkin.

    I have a thing about polar bears.

    Fun fact: raw meat is the only whole food you can live on indefinetely. Well except for the parasites and bacteria you'd get while noshing down.

    We are a pack animal who are usually armed.

    OK, I concede, we are not the apex predator or the top of the food chain, Polar bears are. Now I am off to work I hope I don't run into a polar bear on my way.


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    #64
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    And the death of countless millions of insects, bugs and worms in an effort to feed vegan the plant flesh they crave so much.

    Or, how about the fact that so many animals die in the harvesting of tofu that every slippery bite contains traces of blood.

    Vegas/vegetarians = hypocrites.

    Care to elaborate on this????

    Now, i'm a strict vegetarian but don't eat tofu.. I don't support the wanton murder of any animal as I believe all life is sacred. I also grown my own vegetables and take painstaking care so as to not kill any insects. And I am a hypocrite? Really?

    I think there is a HUGE difference between an insect dying by accident and actually endorsing a pig getting it's throat cut. Your statement is therefore utterly ridiculous.

    I find this thread nauseating in the extreme. How us humans, capable of empathy, can find it okay to just murder animals all over the place for our own consumption. It is nothing but an indulgence.

    The meat industry is responsible for a lot more problems also. It's not just confined to murder.

    Anyways - i'm sure i'll get shot down for being a hippy etc. Sad that you're labelled as the mad one when you try to protect the rights of beings more vulnerable than yourself.

    Feel free to bash this post as i'm sure most of you will. I wont be returning to it anyways.:)


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    #65
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    Evolution happened, we won, yeah, get in the hole.

    I think there are a lot of bacteria and viruses out there who would beg to differ.


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    #66
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,163 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Malaria is a parasite not a virus. Get it right ffs!
    Ambient Occlusion wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Man has the advantage of awareness that no animals can really compare to now or in the past. IE. There is a good chance that we will be able to predict an extinction event and avoid it, unless it's our own fault of course!

    No. There is no possibility of an event that would result in the destruction of all life on this planet except humans (unless we escaped to a different planet but thats just unrealistic atm). We depend on all other living organisms for our survival, hard to believe when you consider how we treat our planet and the other life on it....

    Bacteria were here long before us and will be here long after we have destroyed ourselves in a few hundred thousand years.

    Back on topic, I LOVE MEAT. I have yet to try any animal that i didn't like.


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    #67
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Wurly wrote: »
    Care to elaborate on this????

    Now, i'm a strict vegetarian but don't eat tofu.. I don't support the wanton murder of any animal as I believe all life is sacred. I also grown my own vegetables and take painstaking care so as to not kill any insects. And I am a hypocrite? Really?

    I think there is a HUGE difference between an insect dying by accident and actually endorsing a pig getting it's throat cut. Your statement is therefore utterly ridiculous.

    I find this thread nauseating in the extreme. How us humans, capable of empathy, can find it okay to just murder animals all over the place for our own consumption. It is nothing but an indulgence.

    The meat industry is responsible for a lot more problems also. It's not just confined to murder.

    Anyways - i'm sure i'll get shot down for being a hippy etc. Sad that you're labelled as the mad one when you try to protect the rights of beings more vulnerable than yourself.

    Feel free to bash this post as i'm sure most of you will. I wont be returning to it anyways.:)

    While I totally respect your lifestyle and morals regarding the eating if meat the undeniable fact is humans are omnivores and that means meat and plants.

    Now if you want to eat just plants then so be it and fair dues to you but when it comes down to it the sight of raw or cooked meat is enough to get our jaws watering, its only nature.


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    #68
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Malaria is a parasite not a virus. Get it right ffs!

    Oh, yes, parasites too, thanks for pointing that out.

    At the end of the day, the only way for any human being to ensure they won't get eaten at the end of their lives is to get cremated.

    Top of the food chain.... yeah, right.


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    #69
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,163 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Shenshen wrote: »
    At the end of the day, the only way for any human being to ensure they won't get eaten at the end of their lives is to get cremated.

    Top of the food chain.... yeah, right.

    Getting eaten AFTER YOU'RE DEAD doesn't mean you were bested by a more advanced, evolved organism and therefore you became its food.

    Do you understand how the food chain and evolution works?


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    #70
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    I'm pretty sure at some stage in the future they will teach kids in school that we used to kill animals and eat them. They will be appalled and think we were savages.

    I eat meat, I like meat, but it's pretty obvious to me the animal doesn't want to die and I am placing my appetite ahead of their cruel death. ****.


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    #71
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I eat meat, I like meat, but it's pretty obvious to me the animal doesn't want to die and I am placing my appetite ahead of their cruel death. ****.

    Its nature, nothing more, nothing less. Every meat eating animal does it.


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    #72
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    KTRIC wrote: »
    Its nature, nothing more, nothing less. Every meat eating animal does it.

    Yeah, but I have options. I could eat eggs, quinoa, etc. instead and still have a balanced diet and a full stomach. Kind of sick really.


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    #73
    summerskin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭summerskin


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Yeah, but I have options. I could eat eggs, quinoa, etc. instead and still have a balanced diet and a full stomach. Kind of sick really.

    but all that'd be crap with pepper sauce.


    meat on the other hand......


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    #74
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Yeah, but I have options. I could eat eggs, quinoa, etc. instead and still have a balanced diet and a full stomach. Kind of sick really.

    Yes you do. You can eat eggs but don't delude yourself , they're not meat but they will be at some stage. By eating them you're still eating an animal. Might sound a bit silly but think about it.


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    #75
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    Firstly, human beings are omnivores. We have evolved eating meat as this was the only viable way we could support our large, energy intensive brains (looking at some of the posts here, might not apply to everyone). Specifically, essential nutrients like Vitamin B12 and Omega 3 fatty acids are only available in appreciable amounts from animal food.

    Secondly, killing animals for food is only 'immoral' if you have the moral compass of a five year old. Is it wrong for a tiger to kill for food? Of course not.


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    #76
    grasshopper1
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭grasshopper1


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure at some stage in the future they will teach kids in school that we used to kill animals and eat them. They will be appalled and think we were savages.

    I eat meat, I like meat, but it's pretty obvious to me the animal doesn't want to die and I am placing my appetite ahead of their cruel death. ****.

    As a kid I didn't like meat, I still don't like it. Meat eaters might be interested in this:
    I have often wondered why cancer (s) have increased so much in Ireland???

    http://www.vegsource.com/harris/cancer_vegdiet.htm


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    #77
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    KTRIC wrote: »
    Yes you do. You can eat eggs but don't delude yourself , they're not meat but they will be at some stage. By eating them you're still eating an animal. Might sound a bit silly but think about it.

    I think they're unfertilized eggs though?

    My problem really is the killing. I think vegan diets are OTT.


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    #78
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KTRIC wrote: »
    Yes you do. You can eat eggs but don't delude yourself , they're not meat but they will be at some stage. By eating them you're still eating an animal. Might sound a bit silly but think about it.
    Not the eggs you buy in a shop, they aren't fertilized and will never develop into a chicken.


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    #79
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Secondly, killing animals for food is only 'immoral' if you have the moral compass of a five year old.
    Thinking your morals are the only "right" ones, is the attitude of a 5 year old.
    Is it wrong for a tiger to kill for food? Of course not.
    If a person thinks it's wrong for them to kill for food that is their right, and nobody can tell them that they are wrong.
    Why should everybody subscribe to your way of life? Are you special or something?


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    #80
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Not the eggs you buy in a shop, they aren't fertilized and will never develop into a chicken.

    Eggactly (see what i did there :D) because we saw fit to disturb the life cycle of an animal for our gain. Much the same as how we disturb the life cycle of a cow for our gain to make tasty tasty beef and hot looking leather suits for our women folk.


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    #81
    Krispie
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Krispie


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Why should everybody subscribe to your way of life? Are you special or something?

    My wife said I never make her feel special, so I bought her a helmet and some crayons........


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    #82
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    al28283 wrote: »
    Suffering=Flavour

    Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to Suffffering.






    Suffering leads to flavour.


    Not sure thats a Yoda line.


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    #83
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KTRIC wrote: »
    Eggactly (see what i did there :D) because we saw fit to disturb the life cycle of an animal for our gain. Much the same as how we disturb the life cycle of a cow for our gain to make tasty tasty beef and hot looking leather suits for our women folk.
    There is a slight difference between preventing life from forming and taking life.


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    #84
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    we are a parasite on the planet. Beef is really bad for the environment, I probably eat it 3 or 4 times a year, so it's the one thing we should all try and cut down on. Forests destroyed to cater for cattle farms, and methane is far more dangerous than CO2.
    I know no one in AH cares, but cutting down on meat would do the lot of us a lot of good in the long run, especially beef.


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    #85
    Formosa
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Formosa


    RichieC wrote: »
    Evolution is an ongoing war on a timescale we pesky humans can barley get our heads around.

    Are we parasites, symbionts or predators?

    I knew someone would go against the grain...


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    #86
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Getting eaten AFTER YOU'RE DEAD doesn't mean you were bested by a more advanced, evolved organism and therefore you became its food.

    Do you understand how the food chain and evolution works?

    Enough to know that being "bested by a more advanced organism" is a fallacy.
    And enough to know that the food chain is really a food cycle.

    You only need to look at the number of people killed by parasites, bacteria and viruses (the most "primitive", "unevolved" living things on the planet) to get a rough idea about where we're at in this cycle.


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    #87
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    Firstly, human beings are omnivores. We have evolved eating meat as this was the only viable way we could support our large, energy intensive brains (looking at some of the posts here, might not apply to everyone). Specifically, essential nutrients like Vitamin B12 and Omega 3 fatty acids are only available in appreciable amounts from animal food.

    Secondly, killing animals for food is only 'immoral' if you have the moral compass of a five year old. Is it wrong for a tiger to kill for food? Of course not.

    We also evolved to live in the African savannah and die aged around 30.

    Just because this is how we became what we are now doesn't mean we have an obligation to continue in the same way for all eternity.

    Yes, eating meat is essential if this is the only source of protein and certain vitamins available to you.
    But unless you're posting from somewhere in the Arctic circle or the Brazilian rain forest, I somehow doubt that that's the case.

    We have a choice when it comes to eating animals, we have a wide range of options of where to get our essential nutrients.
    The tiger hasn't.
    Morality only comes into play once you have options.


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    #88
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    Shenshen wrote: »

    We have a choice when it comes to eating animals, we have a wide range of options of where to get our essential nutrients.
    The tiger hasn't.

    LIES

    http://veganpet.com.au/articles/?page_id=7


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    #89
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Jumpy wrote: »
    LIES

    http://veganpet.com.au/articles/?page_id=7

    Rrright.... I honestly don't think that's the kind of tiger we were talking about. Cute, though.

    I'm not sure about feeding carnivorous pets on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Humans are omnivores, we can survive happily on either diet. Cats and dogs are specialised carnivores.
    I've no doubt that we could produce vegetarian pet food that would provide all the nutrients they require in a form they can eat and digest, but I don't know if you can buy that anywhere just yet.
    And trying to prepare it yourself would make pet ownership a full-time job...


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    #90
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    44leto wrote: »
    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Mmmm *slobber*


    I take it you haven't seen polar bears in action then. Good luck with that theory when a half ton of the larget land carnivore that blends in perfectly with its surroundings pops out of snow drift ten feet away wearing a napkin.

    I have a thing about polar bears.

    Fun fact: raw meat is the only whole food you can live on indefinetely. Well except for the parasites and bacteria you'd get while noshing down.

    We are a pack animal who are usually armed.

    OK, I concede, we are not the apex predator or the top of the food chain, Polar bears are. Now I am off to work I hope I don't run into a polar bear on my way.

    You better hope not


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    #91
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Rrright.... I honestly don't think that's the kind of tiger we were talking about. Cute, though.

    I'm not sure about feeding carnivorous pets on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Humans are omnivores, we can survive happily on either diet. Cats and dogs are specialised carnivores.
    I've no doubt that we could produce vegetarian pet food that would provide all the nutrients they require in a form they can eat and digest, but I don't know if you can buy that anywhere just yet.
    And trying to prepare it yourself would make pet ownership a full-time job...

    Also nature has a kind of equalibrium about itself, sure they kill each other but not too many so that they go extinct, in most cases. Humans on the other hand, we just hoover up all resources.


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