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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Flex wrote: »
    We're just servicing interest on the money borrowed for the bank bailout, we're never actually going to "pay" that money. Of the €16B hole in our public finances do you know how much is because of the interest we're paying on the bank bailout?
    No problem there either, I too fully accept that we have a structural deficit. Nor do I deny that we we have too narrow a tax base. I am all for reforming the whole taxation system. My arguement is with those who claim that any new taxes are to fund local services , they are not because local and community services dont exist in Ireland.
    My biggest problem is with the sanctimonius few who troll on about how it is ordinary peoples fault that we are in this position, thats patently not true, ordinary people were given information on which they based their decisions by supposed experts like the Financial regulator, the Central Bank, and the Dept. of Finance...now they are suddenly at fault because they trusted those sources.
    BTW as I have said before I have paid the tax


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    lividduck wrote: »
    No problem there either, I too fully accept that we have a structural deficit. Nor do I deny that we we have too narrow a tax base. I am all for reforming the whole taxation system. My arguement is with those who claim that any new taxes are to fund local services , they are not because local and community services dont exist in Ireland.
    My biggest problem is with the sanctimonius few who troll on about how it is ordinary peoples fault that we are in this position, thats patently not true, ordinary people were given information on which they based their decisions by supposed experts like the Financial regulator, the Central Bank, and the Dept. of Finance...now they are suddenly at fault because they trusted those sources.
    BTW as I have said before I have paid the tax

    We weren't the only country this time to suffer the downward correction in property prices. The out fall from the sub prime lending fiasco in the US and property prices in Spain spring to mind.

    Out of 1.6 million homeowners I don't know what number now are unemployed or had significant reductions to their wages other than run of the mill PS workers. The fact that a house is only valued at half what it was doesn't make the owner worse off in real terms if they have no mortgage or have the same income to service a mortage. And with 200,000 tracker mortgages out there some are on lower repayment compared to a while back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    We weren't the only country this time to suffer the downward correction in property prices. The out fall from the sub prime lending fiasco in the US and property prices in Spain spring to mind.

    Out of 1.6 million homeowners I don't know what number now are unemployed or had significant reductions to their wages other than run of the mill PS workers. The fact that a house is only valued at half what it was doesn't make the owner worse off in real terms if they have no mortgage or have the same income to service a mortage. And with 200,000 tracker mortgages out there some are on lower repayment compared to a while back.

    True, people want to pass the blame but in truth it should be spread. No party would have been elected if they ran a campaign on reducing house prices and controlling debt levels.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Flex wrote: »
    We're just servicing interest on the money borrowed for the bank bailout, we're never actually going to "pay" that money. Of the €16B hole in our public finances do you know how much is because of the interest we're paying on the bank bailout?

    Not completely true. We will have to pay back that counterfeit €51bn. We're paying €3bn this year AFAIK. It's not borrowed money like.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Property is an asset. If you can afford a house you can afford to pay a property tax. Muck like if you have a job you can afford to pay PRSI and PAYE. If you can't afford it you are already in financial difficulty and are going to lose it anyway.

    IS there no hope for Ireland?

    Property is an asset insofar that it can either be sold for its current market value or rented out.

    In case you hadn't noticed we are in a property market slump. Most properties are not worth the amounts borrowed to buy them (THAT'S WHY WE HAD A BANK BAILOUT!!!). Ahem.

    Properties that can be rented out are already taxed. Properties that are commercial are hit by rates, and of course any profits that they make are hit by income tax, not to mention other recurring costs (commercial properties already pay water tax for instance). Families who own second homes already have those taxed as second properties, and of course they also have to pay income tax on any income that they may make.

    But - notwithstanding that these properties are not really assets in the way that you make out - many are going to go on the market in the next while as vendors become unwilling to sit out the recession and want just to avoid new taxes.

    *DING DING DING* Property market slump? More houses on the market? Less buyers? FFS IS THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY RETARDED?

    Edit: Are the politicians of this country universally retarded?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    IS there no hope for Ireland?

    Property is an asset insofar that it can either be sold for its current market value or rented out.

    In case you hadn't noticed we are in a property market slump. Most properties are not worth the amounts borrowed to buy them (THAT'S WHY WE HAD A BANK BAILOUT!!!). Ahem.

    Properties that can be rented out are already taxed. Properties that are commercial are hit by rates, and of course any profits that they make are hit by income tax, not to mention other recurring costs (commercial properties already pay water tax for instance). Families who own second homes already have those taxed as second properties, and of course they also have to pay income tax on any income that they may make.

    But - notwithstanding that these properties are not really assets in the way that you make out - many are going to go on the market in the next while as vendors become unwilling to sit out the recession and want just to avoid new taxes.

    *DING DING DING* Property market slump? More houses on the market? Less buyers? FFS IS THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY RETARDED?

    Edit: Are the politicians of this country universally retarded?

    All of that happened already. The only thing that strikes me is how little protest there has been by the owners of second homes, 340,000 of whom have ponied up €600 to date with very little public comment that I'm aware of. €100extra from people this year is not going to have some sort of calamitous effect on the housing market. Economic cycles go up as well as down and in a few years everything could be great again with house prices tripling every 10 years if you think that is a good thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Austerity is obviously for the ordinary working man.
    Two F.G. Junior Ministers were each awarded 17 thousand euros of a rise today.
    Now there is austerity for you from our F.G. masters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,447 ✭✭✭Potatoeman



    *DING DING DING* Property market slump? More houses on the market? Less buyers? FFS IS THIS ENTIRE COUNTRY RETARDED?

    Edit: Are the politicians of this country universally retarded?

    We should race to the bottom so they can recover to reasonable levels. People will not want to buy houses when they are falling in value. High house prices mean less money for homeowners to spend.
    All of that happened already. The only thing that strikes me is how little protest there has been by the owners of second homes, 340,000 of whom have ponied up €600 to date with very little public comment that I'm aware of. €100extra from people this year is not going to have some sort of calamitous effect on the housing market. Economic cycles go up as well as down and in a few years everything could be great again with house prices tripling every 10 years if you think that is a good thing.

    Why do people need second homes. This is a problem created by the boom loads of people buying investment properties and creating a false demand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod



    In case you hadn't noticed we are in a property market slump. Most properties are not worth the amounts borrowed to buy them (THAT'S WHY WE HAD A BANK BAILOUT!!!). Ahem.

    It's a bit more complicated than that like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Why do people need second homes.

    All the jobs are in Dublin. It's that simple.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Austerity is obviously for the ordinary working man.
    Two F.G. Junior Ministers were each awarded 17 thousand euros of a rise today.
    Now there is austerity for you from our F.G. masters.

    What we need to attract the right people to stand for election is higher salaries. The likes of the big bosses at Paddy Powers who can make ordinary working men part with enormous amounts of money on a futile exercise are the ones we need to run the country. But they cream off 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach so no good offering them 200K, they would laugh at us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Property is an asset. If you can afford a house you can afford to pay a property tax. Muck like if you have a job you can afford to pay PRSI and PAYE. If you can't afford it you are already in financial difficulty and are going to lose it anyway.

    Its hard to believe a person with any sort of common sense would believe that rubbish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 609 ✭✭✭Dubit10


    Not a chance in hell i'll be paying this. It's not the money tbh i have it, i won't pay the charge because i believe the money is going to pay off the bank debts that have been dumped on the Irish taxpayer. I just don't trust this government and i'd say the majority of the country will feel the same way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What we need to attract the right people to stand for election is higher salaries. The likes of the big bosses at Paddy Powers who can make ordinary working men part with enormous amounts of money on a futile exercise are the ones we need to run the country. But they cream off 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach so no good offering them 200K, they would laugh at us.

    But they are generating their own money while the T.D.'s are screwing us. Otherwise I agree with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    squod wrote: »
    It's a bit more complicated than that like.

    Indeed it is: as the above poster earlier pointed out, people automatically have lots of capital if they happen to own property(!) :pac:

    With all due respect is a full synopsis of the economic downturn a necessity? Property value is the cornerstone for collateral in the secured loan market. Its market value reduction (for a number of reasons) to a state below which a parity with the outstanding debts can no longer be achieved has caused a very serious amount of bankruptcy in this state in the last number of years. Oh, and that debt doesn't just magically disappear, you know.

    Now people can start saying that people were at fault for buying property when prices were artificially inflated. Well, I suppose that is true, to a point. But it is entirely irrelevant to any discussion about how we are going to get out of this mess. Making people pay what they demonstrably cannot afford makes no sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Dubit10 wrote: »
    Not a chance in hell i'll be paying this. It's not the money tbh i have it, i won't pay the charge because i believe the money is going to pay off the bank debts that have been dumped on the Irish taxpayer. I just don't trust this government and i'd say the majority of the country will feel the same way.

    I thought you were new to the debate so I had a look for previous posts. Tell me to mind my own business but where were you for the last two years until 10minutes ago? And before that there was another 2 year absence (unless I'm seeing this all wrong).

    Anyway if you own a house just check out the law, by all means don't pay but be aware of penalties fines and interest charges.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I wonder what the Property Tax will be on this wee house ?
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/for-hire-ministers-taxrelief-mansion-2630237.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005



    It's his house and he got it with his own money. He shouldn't have to give any of his own money to any ****er:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    Meeting in Sligo tonight was well attended, nearly 200 hundred people I'd say.

    Clare Daly spoke, amoungst others, and plenty from the floor too.

    People were angry and ready to engage in a proper campaign against the household charge and lots of other issues came up as well. You can imagine...

    Lots of ideas like the one about returning all the leaflets that are coming out, bumper stickers (lovin it!), meetings in other towns, nationwide event on 25th, all good.

    It all depends on whether or not the campaign can sustain itself for long enough and seeing the enthusiasm earlier, it is easy to be hopeful.

    This will be a real test of democracy. We elected Fine Gabour not so long ago and as far as many ordinary people are concerned, they have not delivered.

    They cannot keep breaking promises and waffling and expect to remain legitimate, while they sell the rest of us down the swanny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 866 ✭✭✭gk5000


    What we need to attract the right people to stand for election is higher salaries. The likes of the big bosses at Paddy Powers who can make ordinary working men part with enormous amounts of money on a futile exercise are the ones we need to run the country. But they cream off 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach so no good offering them 200K, they would laugh at us.
    NO. This sort of thinking is why were in this mess.

    The people we need are not in it for the money. No amount of money will attract good canditates to serve the public, as public servants or as politicians.

    Good candidates will serve irrespective, while the money just attracts...people in it for the money.

    Like him or loathe him, Mick O Leary doesn't need the money. No amount of money will attract someone like him, so paying some tosser in excess of 100/200k is pointless; cos if he does do it, or the Paddy Powers guys do it then it will be to prove a point or to make a difference, and not for the money.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    That's a subjective view of poverty. People that are actually poor don't own property. People that bought property that they can't afford now are bad financial planners.

    Does your name have any relationship to your brain?? I fully respect peoples comments from both sides but this wins the award for the most ridiculous comment on boards.ie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Does your name have any relationship to your brain?? I fully respect peoples comments from both sides but this wins the award for the most ridiculous comment on boards.ie what an A$^"$£%

    I think your right, another example. A strange view...
    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Property is an asset. If you can afford a house you can afford to pay a property tax. Muck like if you have a job you can afford to pay PRSI and PAYE. If you can't afford it you are already in financial difficulty and are going to lose it anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    Here is a good idea if it could be organised, after the leaflet drop I would gladly go around in my area and collect them back of people and return to sender with something like no junk mail! who would be up for this? this should be raised at the meeting to see what the response is like


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Here is a good idea if it could be organised, after the leaflet drop I would gladly go around in my area and collect them back of people and return to sender with something like no junk mail! who would be up for this? this should be raised at the meeting to see what the response is like

    Just sending them back in bundles would seem a good idea in itself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Here is a good idea if it could be organised, after the leaflet drop I would gladly go around in my area and collect them back of people and return to sender with something like no junk mail! who would be up for this? this should be raised at the meeting to see what the response is like

    Go for it CJ! :D

    There's absolutely nothing stopping you doing just that.

    Just make sure to count them and that every body knows exactly what you're doing.

    it was raised at the meeting earlier and went down well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Just sending them back in bundles would seem a good idea in itself.

    lets see... anyone good pals with postmen?? ha


  • Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    Just make sure you write something on them ir draw a big "X" on them before you post them back so they cant use them again. Some rude comments would not go to waste either ;):D.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Here is a good idea if it could be organised, after the leaflet drop I would gladly go around in my area and collect them back of people and return to sender with something like no junk mail! who would be up for this? this should be raised at the meeting to see what the response is like

    Instead of returning to sender, directly return them to sender, knock on your local fine gael councilers house door return the leaflets and say we don,t want your junk mail its not welcome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Pete M. wrote: »
    Meeting in Sligo tonight was well attended, nearly 200 hundred people I'd say.

    Clare Daly spoke, amoungst others, and plenty from the floor too.

    People were angry and ready to engage in a proper campaign against the household charge and lots of other issues came up as well. You can imagine...

    Lots of ideas like the one about returning all the leaflets that are coming out, bumper stickers (lovin it!), meetings in other towns, nationwide event on 25th, all good.

    It all depends on whether or not the campaign can sustain itself for long enough and seeing the enthusiasm earlier, it is easy to be hopeful.

    This will be a real test of democracy. We elected Fine Gabour not so long ago and as far as many ordinary people are concerned, they have not delivered.

    They cannot keep breaking promises and waffling and expect to remain legitimate, while they sell the rest of us down the swanny.

    Poor oul Clare Daly must be run off her feet going up and down to Galway and Sligo. Are there no Socialists there to lead the campaign? I hope she is not neglecting her constituents in Dublin.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 609 ✭✭✭Dubit10


    I thought you were new to the debate so I had a look for previous posts. Tell me to mind my own business but where were you for the last two years until 10minutes ago? And before that there was another 2 year absence (unless I'm seeing this all wrong).

    Anyway if you own a house just check out the law, by all means don't pay but be aware of penalties fines and interest charges.

    It's none of your business tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Dubit10 wrote: »
    It's none of your business tbh.

    Fair enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Poor oul Clare Daly must be run off her feet going up and down to Galway and Sligo. Are there no Socialists there to lead the campaign? I hope she is not neglecting her constituents in Dublin.

    I am sure she is claiming expenses anyway so will be doing alright out of it!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Hopefully a trip to the Whest will cheer up her up.

    Poor Clare Daily, she never ever smiles

    When you become a socialist does it mean you must be miserable all the time


  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭out da lough


    If they send me out a bill I might consider paying. But there is never going to be any way that I will meekly go online and register for something on the basis of some guy standing up in Leinster House and saying I must, and that if I don't he will fine me.

    Not going to happen Phil. We have fundamental rights that cannot be impinged.

    That stuff is what happens in totalitarian dictatorships. You want the money? Send me a bill. Then I might think about paying. But we need to hold back and think about what has happened here: some guy stands up in the dáil and says we all need to register and if we don't then he'll fine us.

    That's not how we do things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭out da lough


    From a PR perspective the decision to pay the recently appointed Labour Party "Super Junior" minister with responsibility for Housing and Planning, Jan O' Sullivan an extra tax free "allowance" of €17,000 per annum on top of her salary of €130,000 per annum, is a bad idea in the current climate. Especially when her predecessor, Willie Penrose who resigned in November in protest at the budgetary cutbacks, pocketed a cool €30,000 in "severance pay" even though he only held the position for six months. This is a classic example of "do as I say, not as I do."

    The old phrase, "the working class can kiss my ass, I got the bosses job at last" springs to mind when contrasting the above figures with the austerity measures being inflicted on us.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭Snazzy_Chazzy


    Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
    FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    the statute nonsense is bloody rubbish

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    i will in me bollocks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Gershom


    Charges on our compact three-bed detached house in an average city in England are:

    Property (Council) Tax: £1,500 a year.
    Water charge: £550 a year.

    That's about €2,400 a year!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭genie


    Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
    FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket

    https://www.facebook.com/NoHouseholdTax

    :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
    FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket

    There,s quite a few here you go.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/NoHouseholdTax

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/222320117812975/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Gershom wrote: »
    Charges on our compact three-bed detached house in an average city in England are:

    Property (Council) Tax: £1,500 a year.
    Water charge: £550 a year.

    That's about €2,400 a year!

    The council tax is an allowable tax deduction for landlords in England, where a property is vacant, as tenants are liable for it normally.

    Property taxes in other jurisdictions are also allowable against tax in the case of investors and landlords.

    In Ireland the NPPR and household charge is not an allowable expense for landlords so must be paid from after tax income where the marginal tax rate is now 51%.

    Effectively what this means is that the true cost of the charges to landlords is close to 600 euro per property. 50 euro extra a month at a time of falling rents and house prices.

    This is double taxation pure and simple.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Austerity is obviously for the ordinary working man.
    Two F.G. Junior Ministers were each awarded 17 thousand euros of a rise today.
    Now there is austerity for you from our F.G. masters.

    What we need to attract the right people to stand for election is higher salaries. The likes of the big bosses at Paddy Powers who can make ordinary working men part with enormous amounts of money on a futile exercise are the ones we need to run the country. But they cream off 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach so no good offering them 200K, they would laugh at us.

    Sorry but thats bs we need people attracted to jobs because they have a passion for public service. In no way do we need more people in government attracted there because of the ridiculous pay.

    There are people researching cures for cancer for less than some of these advisors are on. At one stage the bertie was on more money than the american president. High salaries does not = intelligent people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    K-9 wrote: »
    The ability to pay part is a huge problem. I can't see how people on welfare can be expected to pay this, that opens the whole, I'm on minimum wage debate................

    So you're going to effectively approve of this amoral, unjust and unfair tax by complying with it?
    K-9 wrote: »
    Why it's neccesary to attach a charge? Not a new thing. Debts are attached to property as a matter of routine, moreso these days.

    The only reason this is being levied against the family home is to try to intimidate people into paying it.

    Debts are not attached to a property as a matter of routine, they require a court order. So will any debts accrued by not paying this tax.
    K-9 wrote: »
    As for equitability? Name me a tax that is.

    Taxes are relative to some sort of commercial activity, or purchasing something, which gives them some semblance of equity. You shouldn't incur them by simply being at home, or having a home.

    This tax is being levied on people's private property, which has already been taxed at every stage. From the materials to construct it, the paye and prsi paid on wages paid to workers who built it, capital gains on the property it's built on, to stamp duty on the final purchase.

    And now they want to levy a further tax on it, enough is enough, or in this case more than enough already.

    The only good thing about this tax is, it will give people the opportunity to let the "government" know what they think of them, without having to go out on the streets.

    Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Slick50 wrote: »

    Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.

    And the next election will have the property tax as one of its main battlegrounds...... should it even last that long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Slick50 wrote: »
    So you're going to effectively approve of this amoral, unjust and unfair tax by complying with it?

    There are exceptions there for people on welfare claiming interest relief. People also get mortgage interest relief if they pay a mortgage, regardless of tax paid, even nothing. It isn't perfect but that's tax for you!
    The only reason this is being levied against the family home is to try to intimidate people into paying it.

    Debts are not attached to a property as a matter of routine, they require a court order. So will any debts accrued by not paying this tax.

    Not that up on the actual legislation regarding non payment, I think Revenue can already look for a court order for unpaid income tax etc. Penalties are a pretty normal part of not paying taxes!

    Taxes are relative to some sort of commercial activity, or purchasing something, which gives them some semblance of equity. You shouldn't incur them by simply being at home, or having a home.

    This tax is being levied on people's private property, which has already been taxed at every stage. From the materials to construct it, the paye and prsi paid on wages paid to workers who built it, capital gains on the property it's built on, to stamp duty on the final purchase.

    And now they want to levy a further tax on it, enough is enough, or in this case more than enough already.

    The only good thing about this tax is, it will give people the opportunity to let the "government" know what they think of them, without having to go out on the streets.

    Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.

    Well the same argument goes for cars, buying goods in a shop. You just sound opposed to a property tax full stop which is fine, double taxation is normal here, hope you've never bought a new car!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Hopefully a trip to the Whest will cheer up her up.

    Poor Clare Daily, she never ever smiles

    When you become a socialist does it mean you must be miserable all the time

    Think it did actually :)

    Was chattin away with her after the meeting in Sligo about random stuff and she's bang on.
    Thoroughly approachable and down to earth.

    Socialism is about making everybody happy :D

    That's why it's called Socialism man comrade :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    This is fantastic! Check it out. Anyone in fear of not registering you must watch this video. This has made me even more determined to help fight against this rubbish!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPevANo3b0&feature=related


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    This is fantastic! Check it out. Anyone in fear of not registering you must watch this video. This has made me even more determined to help fight against this rubbish!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPevANo3b0&feature=related

    The policeman is fairly sound, but let us not go down that road please :)

    What we should be trying to achieve is system change, not acceptance and living outside of a system.

    Srsly, this campaign will be all about being able to convince ourselves, and others, with the simple, honest arguments that the best thing to do to effect change is not to pay.

    Collect that junk mail when it arrives and send it back for a start ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    K-9 wrote: »
    ....... It isn't perfect but that's tax for you!
    ................ double taxation is normal here,.....

    Both sadly true, but this new tax goes a step beyond that. It is merely fishing for the information they will require to impose greater taxes in the not too distant future.
    K-9 wrote: »
    Well the same argument goes for cars, buying goods in a shop. You just sound opposed to a property tax full stop which is fine, double taxation is normal here, hope you've never bought a new car!

    If you want to use a car analogy, it's like the government deciding that car sales have fallen so far that they are not getting enough tax from VRT. So now they're going to introduce a new tax, called Vehicle Retention Tax, but it's only a hundred €'s.... what's all the fuss about? (shouldn't be giving the knobheads ideas)

    I am absolutely opposed to any tax on a private principal residence. I have bought a new car, not recently, but when I did I knew what the costs where beforehand.


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