Political Correctness

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 08:20PM

44leto wrote: »

I am very for political correctness and I believe it was a force for good. I remember when these clearly offensive, demeaning racist and sexist terms were bandied about in normal conversation.

If you want to see what it was like watch the excellent BeeB series "Life on Mars" words like N#gg#r, puff, fag, Paki, Mick were just everyday conversation, that surely would not have been good for the esteem or dignity of minorities.

And then there's baa baa black sheep (now rainbow sheep) and a blackboard is now........a white board. FFS. Looney tunes. Fruitcakes.

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 08:22PM

RichieC wrote: »

I'm a pool fan and Suarez dissapointed me. but then I've been disgusted with him since the hans ball in the world cup. He's a talented player but also a bit of a liability...

Likewise, he's a bigger diver than Ronaldo was - and that's saying a lot (also a Pool fan BTW).

sock puppet · 23-12-2011 08:25PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

And then there's baa baa black sheep (now rainbow sheep) and a blackboard is now........a white board. FFS. Looney tunes. Fruitcakes.

Yes these things you imagine happened are quite loony.

theg81der · 23-12-2011 08:36PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

I don't think words like 'coloured' or 'half caste' are offensive. I dont use them but if I was talking to somebody and they said it then it wouldnt bother me.

Half cast is horribly offensive I`m half african and it sounds like some kind of mongrel don`t even like that you said it there. People of colour or coloured is not offensive to me personally sure everyone is some colour lol.

The King of Moo · 23-12-2011 08:36PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

The whole thing is stupid.

Lyrics from Kanye West's "Gold Digger":

Now I ain't saying she a gold digger (When I'm Need)
But she ain't messing with no broke niggaz
(She did me wrong)
Now I ain't saying she a gold digger (When I'm need)
but she ain't messing with no broke niggaz

End lyrics.

I never ceases to amaze me how black people go around calling THEMSELVES the N word, then include it in music as 'part of their culture'.:rolleyes:

On a similar note, here in Waterford people are often greeted by 'Well boy/girl". It's being going on for years. AFAIK Waterford and Cork are the only places to use such phraseology.

Some people take offence, but, as far as I'm concerned, this is what we are. We won't be changing it anytime soon to suit anyone else. It is a term of endearment, but, sigh, I am sure there are people out there who will twist it.

But the thing is that there's two elements to speaking to someone: the message intended by the speaker and the meaning interpreted by the person who hears it, and they're not necessarily the same.

For example, quite a few English people nowadays think that "Paddy" is a harmless, light-hearted word, whereas lots of Irish people would find it offensive.
So an English person might say something meant as a term of endearment, but an Irish person might be offended.

So in many cases it doesn't matter what the intention of the speaker was.

That's where political correctness, in principle, comes in, to help people understand, for example, how people can be offended by something the speaker regards as inoffensive.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 08:39PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

I never ceases to amaze me how black people go around calling THEMSELVES the N word, then include it in music as 'part of their culture'.:rolleyes:

Firstly not all Black people call each other Nigga - I'd imagine it's a tiny minority.

Secondly, they don't call each other n*gger, they call each other nigga - there is a nuanced but critical difference.

Thirdly, I'd imagine there's a massive difference between some white guy in the street, you've never met before, calling you a ni*ger and your friend calling you a 'nigga' as a term of affection.

On a similar note, here in Waterford people are often greeted by 'Well boy/girl". It's being going on for years. AFAIK Waterford and Cork are the only places to use such phraseology.

Ah yes, because two Irish folk ending their sentences with 'boy' is the same as a random white person calling a Black guy n*gger.

Sweet Jesus of the Mount of Facepalms give me strength.

Yahew · 23-12-2011 08:50PM

guitarzero wrote: »

apaynea wrote: »

Apparently Suarez said 'Negrito' which is spanish for 'little black fellah'. It almost sounds like an endearing term. I think it boils down to stigma. The stigma of paddy doesnt hold the same weight as the N word. I was wondering if the N word has the same stigma today as it once did considering society has changed so much.

If someone called me paddy I'd probably laugh, simply cuz the provoker must be fairly divorced from reality to think that me, or 99% of Irish are gonna get all roiled up over it.

I think if a black person is at ease in their skin then surely the N word would just roll off them. I think its how you identify with yourself, your skin colour and your heritage. Like, if an Irish lad felt inferior for being Irish and someone called him paddy then maybe he would react due to how much he identifies with aspects of being Irish, mostly negative aspects.

apaynea wrote: »

The point I was trying to make was what we now consider to be racist remarks, in my mind to call someone "Negro" is not racist. Negro in Spanish and Portuguese means Black. So coming from someone that speaks that language is that considered racist?

Gyalist wrote: »

It's interesting to me how suddenly everyone is an expert on the use of negro, negrito and negrita without having the sightest clue of the socio-political context of the origins or intent of the words.

Why would you be an "expert".

The real reason this proves that political correctness is a controlling force is simple: other forms of insults are accepted on the field of play - you can call a red head ginger, a catholic a Mick, a Taffy a Taffy, a geordie a geordie, or a chav a chav, or a welshman a sheep-shagger.

And if your answer to this - as it will be from some people - that that is just not the same as "racism" well then you are indoctrinated. The history of the UK is not one of racism towards blacks. Slavery wasn't practiced in the UK ( and slaveowners don't transfer guilt across generations to the descendants of the then beleaguered working classes).

The history of the UK/Britain is one of English/Norman domination of Ireland, Scotland and Wales; of discrimination by elites against workers and peasants ( enshrined in law and practice), particularly against Northern working class males. Of Protestant State churches against Catholics and dissenters. Some of this was genocidal, or democidal and not just the ethnic stuff. Read about the land clearances.

PC is, paradoxically, an American import. We are colonised in our mind by their TV and intellectuals, so we get their guilt. They used the term "n*gger" so we cant. ( English people used w*g).

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ah yes, because two Irish folk ending their sentences with 'boy' is the same as a random white person calling a Black guy n*gger.

Sweet Jesus of the Mount of Facepalms give me strength.

There is the story of the Irish guy from Cork who called his black American colleague "boy" as he called every male he ever met in his entire life boy. It didn't work out so well.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 08:56PM

Yahew wrote: »

There is the story of the Irish guy from Cork who called his black American colleague "boy" as he called every male he ever met in his entire life boy. It didn't work out so well.

I've heard that story.

Obviously Corkman didn't mean it if it's true.

Kevin Duffy · 23-12-2011 08:59PM

Yahew wrote: »

The real reason this proves that political correctness is a controlling force is simple: other forms of insults are accepted on the field of play - you can call a red head ginger, a catholic a Mick, a Taffy a Taffy, a geordie a geordie, or a chav a chav, or a welshman a sheep-shagger.

Not all those words have the same signifigance - Geordie for example, is a word proudly and affectionately used by Geordies. Also, you can't use all of those words with no risk of offence.

And slavery was practised in the UK and widely across the British Empire. All those African slaves in the Carribean and North American plantations were brough there by the British.

Yahew · 23-12-2011 09:06PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Not all those words have the same signifigance - Geordie for example, is a word proudly and affectionately used by Geordies. Also, you can't use all of those words with no risk of offence.

I haven't seen a ban for using Sheep Shagger - are you sure it has never been used in the field of play. What about "frog". Was Cantona not called a frog, when he attacked that guy?

And slavery was practised in the UK

No it wasn't, unless you mean tenant farming as a form of it

and widely across the British Empire. All those African slaves in the Carribean and North American plantations were brough there by the British.

That was in America, I said the UK advisedly. I also said

Slavery wasn't practiced in the UK ( and slaveowners don't transfer guilt across generations to the descendants of the then beleaguered working classes).

In short the peasant class who transferred to the mines, and dark satanic mills, and then to the long term dole after Thatcher destroyed their unions and factories, did not own slaves, nor benefit from slave ownership.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 09:08PM

Yahew wrote: »

The real reason this proves that political correctness is a controlling force is simple: other forms of insults are accepted on the field of play - you can call a red head ginger, a catholic a Mick, a Taffy a Taffy, a geordie a geordie, or a chav a chav, or a welshman a sheep-shagger.

Who says these insults are accepted?

I wouldn't take kindly to being called a mick or paddy on the field tbh.

I'd return it with venom.

Yahew · 23-12-2011 09:09PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Who says these insults are accepted?

I wouldn't take kindly to being called a mick or paddy on the field tbh.

I return it with venom.

it wouldn't be a legal issue. Although it might start now to "even" things up.

Kevin Duffy · 23-12-2011 09:17PM

Yahew wrote: »

I haven't seen a ban for using Sheep Shagger - are you sure it has never been used in the field of play. What about "frog". Was Cantona not called a frog, when he attacked that guy?

Am I sure about what? That calling someone a sheep shagger might offend them? Yeh, positive. I won't wait for someone to get a ban as the evidence that it's potentially offensive. In fact, very likely to be offensive.
Dunno wtf the bit about Cantona is supposed to mean. The term "frog" in that context is likely to offend, what's your point?.

Yahew wrote: »

No it wasn't, unless you mean tenant farming as a form of it

That was in America, I said the UK advisedly. I also said

Slavery wasn't practiced in the UK ( and slaveowners don't transfer guilt across generations to the descendants of the then beleaguered working classes).

Yes, I know you did, but there were African slaves and possibly others, in what is now the UK, plus vast amounts of slavery was done by the British, all across the British Empire. You can split hairs for semantic fun if you like, but all those African-Americans owe their family history to Britain for the most part.

Kevin Duffy · 23-12-2011 09:19PM

Yahew wrote: »

it wouldn't be a legal issue. Although it might start now to "even" things up.

I wish I'd seen this before I posted my reply to you, it would have saved me a job. Your thinking is, to be kind about it, a little confused.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 09:25PM

Yahew wrote: »

it wouldn't be a legal issue. Although it might start now to "even" things up.

Well in an ideal world racist slurs wouldn't be a legal issue either but we don't live in an ideal world.

I believe in the power of ostracism and ridicule but the thing about racism is that people will actually try to explain it away in an attempt to stir shit.

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 09:28PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Firstly not all Black people call each other Nigga - I'd imagine it's a tiny minority.

Not in the music industry (or the followers of rap, hiphop, etc)

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Secondly, they don't call each other n*gger, they call each other nigga - there is a nuanced but critical difference.

Of course there is Chuck! Sweet Jesus. Facepalm indeed!:D

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Thirdly, I'd imagine there's a massive difference between some white guy in the street, you've never met before, calling you a ni*ger and your friend calling you a 'nigga' as a term of affection.

You say tomato, etc.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Ah yes, because two Irish folk ending their sentences with 'boy' is the same as a random white person calling a Black guy n*gger.

Sweet Jesus of the Mount of Facepalms give me strength.

It may surprise you Chuck, but black people find the term 'boy' offensive. Now, there's your new lesson for today. As do some English people. Facepalm again it looks like. but back at ya!;)

Kevin Duffy · 23-12-2011 09:34PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Not in the music industry (or the followers of rap, hiphop, etc)

Yes, indeed, that is famously representative of black people. Especially the doctors.

Freddie59 wrote: »

It may surprise you Chuck, but black people find the term 'boy' offensive. Now, there's your new lesson for today. As do some English people. Facepalm again it looks like. but back at ya!;)

He said "two Irish people" using the term "boy" and contrasted it to somone white calling someone black "niggér". Yah may take back the facepalm.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 09:36PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Not in the music industry (or the followers of rap, hiphop, etc)

You're talking about 'gangster' rap. So yes, in Freddies world of fantasy a majority of a tiny minority is... nope - you've stopped making sense.

You say tomato, etc.

I find your trivialising of this issue distasteful. Now repeat after me..

White man calling Black man n*gger =/= Irish folk calling each other 'boy'.

Repeat until learned by heart because I don't think you're going to understand how this works.

I wondering whether I should take what you say seriously at all at this stage tbh.

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 09:37PM

sock puppet wrote: »

Yes these things you imagine happened are quite loony.

Just for you. Those "imaginary" things.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379114/Baa-baa-rainbow-sheep.html

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 09:38PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

He said "two Irish people" using the term "boy" and contrasted it to somone white calling someone black "niggér". Yah may take back the facepalm.

As explained, use of the word 'boy' appears to be equally insulting to certain 'ethnic minorities'. Facepalm indeed.

Freddie59 · 23-12-2011 09:40PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You're talking about 'gangster' rap. So yes, in Freddies world of fantasy a majority of a tiny minority is... nope - you've stopped making sense. .

You keep quoting 'minority' across threads Chuck, without ever backing it up with figures.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I find your trivialising of this issue distasteful. Now repeat after me..

White man calling Black man n*gger =/= Irish folk calling each other 'boy'.

Repeat until learned by heart because I don't think you're going to understand how this works.

I wondering whether I should take what you say seriously at all at this stage tbh.

And it is indeed trivial to those of us with more to worry about than terminology. And you consider YOURSELF serious? Don't make me laugh!:D

Yahew · 23-12-2011 09:49PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

He said "two Irish people" using the term "boy" and contrasted it to somone white calling someone black "niggér". Yah may take back the facepalm.

Of FFS. Calling a black person "boy" is what the slaveholders used to do to slaves - regardless of age. So it is a racist term, or seen as one, by African Americans. Facepalm that.

Mentioning it was perfectly legit in the context of this thread.

Kevin Duffy · 23-12-2011 09:52PM

Yahew wrote: »

Of FFS. Calling a black person "boy" is what the slaveholders used to do to slaves - regardless of age. So it is a racist term, or seen as one, by African Americans. Facepalm that.

Save me typing it again;

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

He said "two Irish people" using the term "boy" and contrasted it to someone white calling someone black "niggér". Yah may take back the facepalm.

The_Thing · 23-12-2011 09:53PM

For starters I'd like to put a bullet between the eyes of all the politically correct tossers who had the Golliwog removed from the jam jar labels.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 09:53PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

You keep quoting 'minority' across threads Chuck, without ever backing it up with figures.

WTF are you on about?

You've made the oh-so-stupid mistake of applying what you know of the word 'nigga' in the lyrics of gangster rap and probably US black gangster movies and grafting it onto the behaviour of hundreds of millions of black people!

Hilarious analytic skills.

Yahew · 23-12-2011 09:55PM

You didn't get the original argument. The use of the term "boy" is seen as insulting in the US ( where Negro used to be acceptable but isn't now), and not just to blacks. IT is not politically correct. Understand now?

dvpower · 23-12-2011 09:57PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

I never ceases to amaze me how black people go around calling THEMSELVES the N word, then include it in music as 'part of their culture'.:rolleyes:

Does some black people people refererring to others as '****' make it acceptable for everyone to do it?

dvpower · 23-12-2011 09:58PM

The_Thing wrote: »

For starters I'd like to put a bullet between the eyes of all the politically correct tossers who had the Golliwog removed from the jam jar labels.

:eek:

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 09:58PM

Yahew wrote: »

Of FFS. Calling a black person "boy" is what the slaveholders used to do to slaves - regardless of age. So it is a racist term, or seen as one, by African Americans. Facepalm that.

Mentioning it was perfectly legit in the context of this thread.

Mentioning it is fine. Trying to use it as an excuse to water down the effect of a white person calling a black person n*gger is either just plain thick or willful trolling.

Chuck Stone · 23-12-2011 10:03PM

Yahew wrote: »

You didn't get the original argument. The use of the term "boy" is seen as insulting in the US ( where Negro used to be acceptable but isn't now), and not just to blacks. IT is not politically correct. Understand now?

You is who?

It refers to what?

Political Correctness

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