Parking on footpath, done for 40e

jimmyendless · 06-12-2011 12:48pm

Originally Posted by JaneyMacker
You probably have three choices.
1 - Live in an apartment full of mold.
2 - Dry your clothes in a dryer.
3 - Dry your clothes inside but keep all the windows open all the time.

If you dont have a dryer tell your landlord he has two choices.

Its up to you how you want to live. If you get mold after drying clothes in an enclosed space and expect not to have any problems - Get in the thick queue.

Originally Posted by UDP
Many apartment blocks dont allow drying clothes on balconies and drying clothes in a dryer would cost an absolute fortune. I dry them outside despite it being against the rules as I have no choice but when it is windy and rainy then I also have no choice but to dry them inside.

I hope your don't get fined cause you broke the rules even if they are not practical.
Hopefully your letting agent would show some common sense.

Cuddlesworth · 06-12-2011 12:51pm

UDP wrote: »

So it is official council policy to allow people to break the law.

Yep. Do you think everybody should hold every law in this country to sacrosanct? How do you feel about the blasphemy law? "God is a wanker". Should the gardai now go to a judge and request a order to have my IP given by boards.ltd. Then have a order for Smart to disclose the owner. Then have a order done up for my Company to give details of who accessed this page at this time. Sure its the law, it must be followed 100% all the time right?

Or the private cars across the road from me parked two abreast in a loading bay for the duration of the day? Its the law right. The Gardai should definitely walk into the station, find the Gardai who own the cars and ticket each one right?

The law is very gray, its a complicated mess of rules and exclusions brought about by semi-vague wording generally leaving out obvious exceptions. Our State bodies are allowed use discretion and common sense when carrying out their duties. In this case, the warden chose not to. I would be inclined to believe that he didn't do it over the fact that the bike had broken the law, but rather that he had a personal grievance or issue with motorbikes at that moment.

A letter to his superiors would at least notify them of this crusade and allow them to make a informed and unbiased decision of whether or not his actions were justified.

UDP · 06-12-2011 12:55pm

jimmyendless wrote: »

I hope your don't get fined cause you broke the rules even if they are not practical.
Hopefully your letting agent would show some common sense.

But I wouldnt direct abuse at the person who issued the fine unless they were the ones creating the policies - I wouldn't call them a 'pr1ck' for just doing their job. Plus there is a big difference between the law of the land and general rules that are not legally binding.

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 12:58pm

dceire wrote: »

In the mean time, let us park on footpaths

No!

Paparazzo wrote: »

This is the common sense thing. Guards use it all the time.

Personally I am tired of "common sense" in this context meaning "let's use pedestrian space as extra road space".

Guards do this all the time too, ie ignore blatant obstruction of footpaths, or even engage in the same behaviour themselves. That's not common sense in my view, it's laziness and possibly even negligence, and it indicates a certain attitude towards the needs of pedestrians and disabled people..

jimmyendless · 06-12-2011 12:58pm

Rules are rules UDP and when you get a stupid fine I'm sure you would not get angry at all or do any venting on a forum.

You are a better type of person than I.

UDP · 06-12-2011 12:59pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yep. Do you think everybody should hold every law in this country to sacrosanct? How do you feel about the blasphemy law? "God is a wanker". Should the gardai now go to a judge and request a order to have my IP given by boards.ltd. Then have a order for Smart to disclose the owner. Then have a order done up for my Company to give details of who accessed this page at this time. Sure its the law, it must be followed 100% all the time right?

Yes, that law should be repealed and I would like to see someone done for it. Plus for what you posted you couldn't be done for under that law.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Or the private cars across the road from me parked two abreast in a loading bay for the duration of the day? Its the law right. The Gardai should definitely walk into the station, find the Gardai who own the cars and ticket each one right?

The Gardai should follow the law like anyone else unless they are exempted. Its this Irish attitude of "ah sure it'll be grand, no harm done" is why this countries services are often run badly. Then when someone actually does the job correctly people shout "Prick", "Nazi", "Asshole".... How dare you apply the law correctly! He should be fired for doing his job correctly!

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The law is very gray, its a complicated mess of rules and exclusions brought about by semi-vague wording generally leaving out obvious exceptions. Our State bodies are allowed use discretion and common sense when carrying out their duties. In this case, the warden chose not to. I would be inclined to believe that he didn't do it over the fact that the bike had broken the law, but rather that he had a personal grievance or issue with motorbikes at that moment.

Some parts of law are grey and vague and others are quite clear. The law with regards parking vehicles on footpaths is as black and white as they come.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

A letter to his superiors would at least notify them of this crusade and allow them to make a informed and unbiased decision of whether or not his actions were justified.

A letter to the council and a campaign to ensure there is adaquate parking facilities for Motor Bikes is what is needed - not an attack on a person doing their job correctly.

Cuddlesworth · 06-12-2011 1:02pm

UDP wrote: »

But I wouldnt direct abuse at the person who issued the fine unless they were the ones creating the policies - I wouldn't call them a 'pr1ck' for just doing their job. Plus there is a big difference between the law of the land and general rules that are not legally binding.

As has been explained, his job is not to fine bikes. He can do it, but it is not a requirement laid out by his superiors. And in principal, not following your tenant rules due to necessity is the same as not following the law and parking on pavements due to necessity.

UDP · 06-12-2011 1:05pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

As has been explained, his job is not to fine bikes. He can do it, but it is not a requirement laid out by his superiors.

I very much doubt he is specifically told not to fine bikes. They are there to uphold the law with regards parking and he should treat everyone fairly.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And in principal, not following your tenant rules due to necessity is the same as not following the law and parking on pavements due to necessity.

Completely different - one would be a civil disagreement and the other is statutory law. Either way a person just doing their job should not have abuse directed at them.

sleepysniper · 06-12-2011 1:05pm

Originally Posted by ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997
(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;
( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;
( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;
( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;
( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;
( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;
( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;
( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—
(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];
(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or
(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];
( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;
( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;
( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

These laws were implemented/last updated in '97. Almost 15 years ago. I think it may need to be updated seen as there so many PC A-Holes around theses days:rolleyes:

So UPD where do you suggest motorbikes are parked then if there is no designated parking bays are provided for motorbikes? Walk? Sorry but living 10 miles from the city and walking there is not very convenient believe it or not.:rolleyes:

Pataman · 06-12-2011 1:06pm

UDP wrote: »

A letter to the council and a campaign to ensure there is adaquate parking facilities for Motor Bikes is what is needed - not an attack on a person doing their job correctly.

How long is that going to take? MAG Ireland have been campaigning for bikes to use the bus lane for years and it has fallen on deaf ears.
In the meantime should we not use our bikes?

dceire · 06-12-2011 1:06pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

No!

That's a very good retort to my wish to continue to park on footpaths in the future. I gather from this that you are a warden yourself, as you appear to have some means by which you can prevent me from doing so. I shall enjoy not paying any future fines you bestow upon me.

Your Gardai photos do nothing for your argument except prove that you seem to make sweeping generalizations; all motorcyclists are inconsiderate bandits while Gardai are inconsiderate idiots who cannot be trusted to apply any sort of free will in their day to day work.

Cuddlesworth · 06-12-2011 1:07pm

UDP wrote: »

Yes, that law should be repealed and I would like to see someone done for it. Plus for what you posted you couldn't be done for under that law.

MOD: Abuse. You've Been Warned.

UDP · 06-12-2011 1:08pm

sleepysniper wrote: »

These laws were implemented/last updated in '97. Almost 15 years ago. I think it may need to be updated seen as there so many PC A-Holes around theses days:rolleyes:

I think the law people are unhappy with is bye-laws with regards pay and display parking not that it is illegal to park on a footpath - that law should remain.

sleepysniper wrote: »

So UPD where do you suggest motorbikes are parked then if there is no designated parking bays are provided for motorbikes? Walk? Sorry but living 10 miles from the city and walking there is not very convenient believe it or not.:rolleyes:

If it is an issue then it should be taken to the council to get resolved. A Parking Warden does not make the rules he is just there to enforce them.

Cuddlesworth · 06-12-2011 1:11pm

UDP wrote: »

Completely different - one would be a civil disagreement and the other is statutory law. Either way a person just doing their job should not have abuse directed at them.

Civil disagreement based on a contract which is based on contract law that if necessary can be up-held by the courts, or statutory law that if necessary can be up-held by the courts. Principal is the same.

I for one am firmly against drying your clothes on the balcony and believe that the Managment company should start eviction proceedings immediately.

UDP · 06-12-2011 1:13pm

Pataman wrote: »

How long is that going to take? MAG Ireland have been campaigning for bikes to use the bus lane for years and it has fallen on deaf ears.
In the meantime should we not use our bikes?

I dont agree that Bikes should be allowed use bus lanes but that is a completely separate issue to this. Has there been a campaign about not being allowed to park in Pay and Display spaces?

Paparazzo · 06-12-2011 1:20pm

jimmyendless wrote: »

I hope your don't get fined cause you broke the rules even if they are not practical.
Hopefully your letting agent would show some common sense.

LOL! Caught nicely!

Anyway, this was a one off from the traffic warden, let his superiors know he's being a dick because there's no parking available, he'll be told to not do it again and everybodys happy.

Paparazzo · 06-12-2011 1:33pm

sleepysniper wrote: »

Sorry but living 10 miles from the city and walking there is not very convenient believe it or not.:rolleyes:

You should leave your bike locked up in a garage, it could fall on someone if you ever take it out. And god forbid if something leaked out of it :eek: They'd have to call in the army and decontaminate the area.
There's bikes falling on kids all around the country, and the footpaths are covered in oil with people slipping in it, breaking their hips.
It's far to heavy for the roads too, it could easily damage them.

Cars should be banned from town centers, they're carrying too much fuel in the tanks which could ignite and the cars could explode. Also, when parked, the handbrake cable could snap, and if there's a hill, the car could roll back and a child could be playing there. When they're coming to a stop, the brakes could fail too.

Don't get me started on the damage a truck could do! I saw one that carried chemicals and it was DRIVING PAST A SCHOOL FOR DISABLED CHILDREN!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Listen, this post is no more ridiclious that the ones from Iwannahurl and UDB.

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 1:38pm

dceire wrote: »

That's a very good retort to my wish to continue to park on footpaths in the future. I gather from this that you are a warden yourself, as you appear to have some means by which you can prevent me from doing so. I shall enjoy not paying any future fines you bestow upon me.

Your Gardai photos do nothing for your argument except prove that you seem to make sweeping generalizations; all motorcyclists are inconsiderate bandits while Gardai are inconsiderate idiots who cannot be trusted to apply any sort of free will in their day to day work.

The RoTR are clear on this point, and as a licensed(?) road user you should be familiar with those rules. Discussion of this point is superfluous, IMO.

As for your suggestion that I am painting "all motorcyclists" as "inconsiderate bandits" and AGS as "inconsiderate idiots", I'm afraid that is just one of those Straw Man arguments so common on Boards, ie invent an argument that a poster didn't make, then sarcastically (and oh so cleverly) demolish it.

My point about AGS and Traffic Wardens is that I believe they should NOT use their discretion to allow the use of pedestrian facilities as extra road space. Footpath parking is commonplace in this country, though it is completely illegal, because AGS and local authorities seem to think it's OK to use pedestrian space for motor vehicles. IMO that reflects badly on them, as it shows a lack of regard for the needs of, for example, pedestrians, vision-impaired people and senior citizens who may need support to walk.

Footpaths and other pedestrian facilities are NOT extra road space for you to use as you wish. If this is a common attitude among bikers then I'm afraid I am rapidly losing sympathy for the OP, even if no PWT parking was provided in the vicinity. Unlike disabled people he has two functioning legs; let him use them and save €40 from his dole money in the process.

BTW, would we be having this discussion if the OP was parked on the DYLs?

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 1:43pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

You should leave your bike locked up in a garage, it could fall on someone if you ever take it out. And god forbid if something leaked out of it :eek: They'd have to call in the army and decontaminate the area.
There's bikes falling on kids all around the country, and the footpaths are covered in oil with people slipping in it, breaking their hips.
It's far to heavy for the roads too, it could easily damage them.

Cars should be banned from town centers, they're carrying too much fuel in the tanks which could ignite and the cars could explode. Also, when parked, the handbrake cable could snap, and if there's a hill, the car could roll back and a child could be playing there. When they're coming to a stop, the brakes could fail too.

Don't get me started on the damage a truck could do! I saw one that carried chemicals and it was DRIVING PAST A SCHOOL FOR DISABLED CHILDREN!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Listen, this post is no more ridiclious that the ones from Iwannahurl and UDB.

jimmyendless · 06-12-2011 1:48pm

I'm getting tired of this. I'll have to pay my fine but its still a stupid call by the warden. Loads of space, not obstructing anyone. Not taking the piss and endangering pedestrians.

DYL fine is a given, everyone will get done for it, fine for bikes on footpaths, not a given, its the opposite, people don't normally get fined for it cause they aren't taking the piss 'endangering' all these helpless blind old people everywhere.

Warden could have used common sense as many wardens do up and down the country, but he didn't, he was a jobsworth about it. It is a grey area if its not enforced in many counties and the capital but is here. That is a mixed message.

maameeo · 06-12-2011 1:50pm

UDP wrote: »

( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;

I presume you never park your car on any of the above?

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 1:52pm

jimmyendless wrote: »

I'm getting tired of this. I'll have to pay my fine but its still a stupid call by the warden. Loads of space, not obstructing anyone. Not taking the piss and endangering pedestrians.

DYL fine is a given, everyone will get done for it, fine for bikes on footpaths, not a given, its the opposite, people don't normally get fined for it cause they aren't taking the piss 'endangering' all these helpless blind old people everywhere.

Warden could have used common sense as many wardens do up and down the country, but he didn't, he was a jobsworth about it. It is a grey area if its not enforced in many counties and the capital but is here. That is a mixed message.

Long past time fines for footpath parking were a given and that everyone gets done for it.

I'd like to see some wardens like that in my neck of the woods, instead of the lazy biased ones we have currently.

UDP · 06-12-2011 2:10pm

maameeo wrote: »

I presume you never park your car on any of the above?

No, I dont.

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 2:16pm

UDP wrote: »

No, I dont.

I don't know much about rocket science, but amazingly enough I never have a problem not parking on the footpath, grass margin or median strip.

Triangla · 06-12-2011 2:28pm

As a non biker I think that's a really bad call. Doing his job sure but parking enforcement is to ensure safe and responsible parking isn't it? The bike looks safe and secure where it is.

I can't imagine how anyone, blind or seeing would have difficulty with where it is.

Seeing as it's between the tree and the bin, not really an area you would have pedestrians walking you could dispute it:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html

“footway” means that portion of any road which is provided primarily for the use of pedestrians;

If I were in your shoes I'd just pay the fine and contact the council about lack of spaces. If they insist on you parking in motorcycle only spaces then they should really provide them.

That parking warden must be an absolute joy.

Paparazzo · 06-12-2011 2:46pm

Triangla wrote: »

If I were in your shoes I'd just pay the fine and contact the council about lack of spaces. If they insist on you parking in motorcycle only spaces then they should really provide them.

Yeah, that's what I'd do. A warden going around acting like that will probably have a few complaints against him.

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 2:54pm

I'd have thought by now we'd have learned our lessons about light-touch regulation.

Too many people complain about the law being enforced, IMO.

Our Irish culture of non-compliance is copperfastened by our Irish culture of passing laws and then not enforcing them.

Complaining about an official doing his job is vexatious and dishonest, IMO.

Paparazzo · 06-12-2011 3:18pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd have thought by now we'd have learned our lessons about light-touch regulation.

Too many people complain about the law being enforced, IMO.

Our Irish culture of non-compliance is copperfastened by our Irish culture of passing laws and then not enforcing them.

Complaining about an official doing his job is vexatious and dishonest, IMO.

Well, if everyone had your opinion the world would be a miserable place.

Zascar · 06-12-2011 8:55pm

Guys I'm getting a lot of reported posts on this thread - you know the rules, no personal abuse. Cop on I don't want to have to delete the thread

Tazzle · 06-12-2011 9:14pm

The duties of a traffic warden in Ballincollig can't involve the most stimulating of activities. There isn't a whole lot to really do unless you nitpick. There's no pay and display and there's plenty of spaces for car users. The only way he can justify his job is to be strict I guess.

Personally I don't agree with this kind of aggressive enforcement, especially in a town like Ballincollig. Agitating the public like this is totally unnecessary.

If this was the City council you wouldn't have a prayer appealing, but it's County so try contacting your local councillor, talk about your dissatisfaction with the lack of provision of motorcycle spaces despite the recent multimillion redevelopment of Ballincollig...

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 9:51pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

Well, if everyone had your opinion the world would be a miserable place.

Complying with the law, and walking more than a few metres, does seem to be a miserable prospect for a lot of Irish road users.

On the other hand, I have attended several public meetings where disabled people, including those with sight impairments, have said how miserable it is for them to have to deal with obstructions on the footpath.

If the enforcers shared my opinion this kind of thing wouldn't be normal in Ireland:

Paparazzo · 06-12-2011 10:05pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Complying with the law, and walking more than a few metres, does seem to be a miserable prospect for a lot of Irish road users.

On the other hand, I have attended several public meetings where disabled people, including those with sight impairments, have said how miserable it is for them to have to deal with obstructions on the footpath.

If the enforcers shared my opinion this kind of thing wouldn't be normal in Ireland:

Take a look at the op's pic and see if you can spot a difference between how he parked and the pics you put up

P.C. · 06-12-2011 10:15pm

Zascar wrote: »

Guys I'm getting a lot of reported posts on this thread - you know the rules, no personal abuse. Cop on I don't want to have to delete the thread

There seem to be a few people using this thread for their own agenda.

Please don't!

This is a motor bike forum - please respect that!

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 11:35pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

Take a look at the op's pic and see if you can spot a difference between how he parked and the pics you put up

A footpath is a footpath. That doesn't change, regardless of the type of vehicle or style of parking.

P.C. wrote: »

There seem to be a few people using this thread for their own agenda.

Please don't!

This is a motor bike forum - please respect that!

This is the "agenda", as is this. Please respect that.

Cuddlesworth · 06-12-2011 11:40pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

This is the "agenda", as is this. Please respect that.

Did you miss the face that he wasn't interfering in any way the ability of a disabled person to use the path or pedestrian crossing or did you choose to ignore it?

Iwannahurl · 06-12-2011 11:48pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Did you miss the face that he wasn't interfering in any way the ability of a disabled person to use the path or pedestrian crossing or did you choose to ignore it?

I started off feeling some sympathy for the OP, based on comments that PTW parking is often lacking (as pedal cycle parking frequently is).

However, my sympathy gradually drained away as the excuses and anti parking warden abuse accumulated!

A visually-impaired person could find that motorbike quite awkward. Are you choosing to ignore that, or can you just not imagine what it's like for someone with no sight?

It's a footpath -- the clue is in the name. I'm mystified as to why so many motorists seem to think they have a superior, and inviolable, claim on pedestrian space.

Del2005 · 07-12-2011 12:36am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A visually-impaired person could find that motorbike quite awkward. Are you choosing to ignore that, or can you just not imagine what it's like for someone with no sight?

It's a footpath -- the clue is in the name. I'm mystified as to why so many motorists seem to think they have a superior, and inviolable, claim on pedestrian space.

Looking at the picture in the OP the bike is properly the safest thing on the footpath for a visually impaired person. There are skinny trees with holes around the base. There are several different levels and textures to the path. If the visually impaired person can't see a biggish bike then they wouldn't have made it that far to hit the bike.

AgileMyth · 07-12-2011 12:42am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A visually-impaired person could find that motorbike quite awkward. Are you choosing to ignore that, or can you just not imagine what it's like for someone with no sight?
.

No they couldn't. Its parked between two obstacles and there is an unobstructed section of flat path beside it. Unless they were attempting to cross the road there, which would be suicidal tbh, a visually impared person would never be attempting to occupy the space that bike is parked in.

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 12:51am

Del2005 wrote: »

Looking at the picture in the OP the bike is properly the safest thing on the footpath for a visually impaired person. There are skinny trees with holes around the base. There are several different levels and textures to the path. If the visually impaired person can't see a biggish bike then they wouldn't have made it that far to hit the bike.

Blind people can't see anything.

The existing features such as trees may be either permanent or long-standing. A blind or vision-impaired person may have familiarised themselves with existing features or hazards. A new or unexpected obstacle, such as an illegally or obnoxiously parked vehicle, may pose an additional hazard.

AgileMyth wrote: »

No they couldn't. Its parked between two obstacles and there is an unobstructed section of flat path beside it. Unless they were attempting to cross the road there, which would be suicidal tbh, a visually impared person would never be attempting to occupy the space that bike is parked in.

How do you know? Who should decide? And why are we even discussing this?

AgileMyth · 07-12-2011 1:08am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

How do you know? Who should decide? And why are we even discussing this?

If the bike wasn't parked there and a blind person was walking down that section of the path they would walk directly into several other obstructions. They therefore would decided themselves to walk the route which doesn't lead them into trees. This is obvious stuff.

I live in Sligo. I literally have no choice but to park on a footpath or occupy a pay and display space. I'm going to continue parking on footpaths. Thats why I'm discussing this.

Why are you discussing this? Other than to push the message of blindly following the regulations set by our wonderful overlords, lest we should have to resort to common sense.

echomadman · 07-12-2011 1:19am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The existing features such as trees may be either permanent or long-standing. A blind or vision-impaired person may have familiarised themselves with existing features or hazards. A new or unexpected obstacle, such as an illegally or obnoxiously parked vehicle, may pose an additional hazard.

That is a nonsensical argument, anything could be in that spot from day to day, groups of people, bicycles, bins.
You say illegally and obnoxiously, while the bike in the OP may be illegal by the letter of the law it is hardly obnoxious.

Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.

Bikes are, in my opinion, incorrectly lumped in with 4 wheeled vehicles in Irish laws regarding parking and use of buslanes. they simply don't have the same physical footprint on the road or on the footpath. This opinion is clearly shared by the majority of our states parking law enforcers, be they Gardai or Traffic wardens, as i have honestly never heard of anyone being done for this before i read this thread.

Screaming "its the law, deal with it" over and over again doesn't make that law inviolable. There are lots of laws that need amending to better suit day to day reality.

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 1:20am

AgileMyth wrote: »

If the bike wasn't parked there and a blind person was walking down that section of the path they would walk directly into several other obstructions. They therefore would decided themselves to walk the route which doesn't lead them into trees. This is obvious stuff.

I live in Sligo. I literally have no choice but to park on a footpath or occupy a pay and display space. I'm going to continue parking on footpaths. Thats why I'm discussing this.

Why are you discussing this? Other than to push the message of blindly following the regulations set by our wonderful overlords, lest we should have to resort to common sense.

Who should decide where a blind person can or can not, may or may not, walk?

No choice but to park on the footpath? That's a common excuse I hear: "where else can I park?" Often said while the offender is standing beside a perfectly good road.

I've also heard the "common sense" argument in similar circumstances. Odd how often motorists want to exercise their alleged common sense on the footpath rather than the road.

If there was more enforcement, as I think there should be, people's notion of "common sense" in this regard would evolve PDQ.

I don't know the specifics of Sligo, but are you adamant that there isn't a single spot for parking PTWs anywhere within reasonable walking distance of the town centre?

I've only ever walked or driven a car around Sligo, but I am aware that there are one or two mult-storey car parks. Are PTWs not allowed in them either?

echomadman · 07-12-2011 1:23am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I've only ever walked or driven a car around Sligo, but I am aware that there are one or two mult-storey car parks? Are PTWs not allowed in them either?

I have never been allowed into one on a bike.

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 1:33am

echomadman wrote: »

That is a nonsensical argument, anything could be in that spot from day to day, groups of people, bicycles, bins.
You say illegally and obnoxiously, while the bike in the OP may be illegal by the letter of the law it is hardly obnoxious.

Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.

Bikes are, in my opinion, incorrectly lumped in with 4 wheeled vehicles in Irish laws regarding parking and use of buslanes. they simply don't have the same physical footprint on the road or on the footpath. This opinion is clearly shared by the majority of our states parking law enforcers, be they Gardai or Traffic wardens, as i have honestly never heard of anyone being done for this before i read this thread.

Screaming "its the law, deal with it" over and over again doesn't make that law inviolable. There are lots of laws that need amending to better suit day to day reality.

Such objects, usually, don't drop out of the sky. They are put there by humans. Inappropriately placed street furniture, bins, bollards, advertising signs, and indeed obnoxiously parked bicycles etc have all been identified by disabled groups as potential obstacles or hazards.

Groups of people may also constitute an obstacle. I attended a recent meeting to mark Accessibility Week 2011. One disability advocate remarked how obnoxious some people can be when standing in a group on a pavement. Some actually take offence to being politely asked to make way for a disabled person.

Footpath parking is extremely common. The fact that enforcers frequently ignore it, or engage in such obnoxious parking themselves, doesn't make it right. There is a lot of behaviour in this country that needs to be amended to take account of the law, and of basic good manners.

The Rules of the Road book is not a menu. Suggesting that the RoTR is not inviolable, so that a motorist's convenience can take precedence, is highly questionable IMO. It's a common view though, if the standard of driving (and parking) in Ireland is anything to go by.

echomadman · 07-12-2011 1:49am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Such objects, usually, don't drop out of the sky. They are put there by humans. Inappropriately placed street furniture, bins, bollards, advertising signs, and indeed obnoxiously parked bicycles etc have all been identified by disabled groups as potential obstacles or hazards.

Groups of people may also constitute an obstacle. I attended a recent meeting to mark Accessibility Week 2011. One disability advocate remarked how obnoxious some people can be when standing in a group on a pavement. Some actually take offence to being politely asked to make way for a disabled person.

That was my point, earlier you claimed that the motorbike represented an bolt from the blue unknown obstacle to these visually impaired savants precisely memorised route between the bin and the tree. Life is hard and people and things get in your way a lot, blind or not.

The Rules of the Road book is not a menu. Suggesting that the RoTR is not inviolable, so that a motorist's convenience can take precedence, is highly questionable IMO. It's a common view though, if the standard of driving (and parking) in Ireland is anything to go by.

Bikes in buslanes is a rider safety and traffic reduction measure that is legal in many countries but not here, are these other countries laws wrong?
Bikes parking on footpaths is legal in many countries, are their laws wrong?
Laws don't spring fully formed from the legal pad of whatever diety you kowtow to. They are written by generally flawed people and require regular review as their implementation in the real world is assesed.

Can you accept that it is entirely possible that the Irish laws were written up with absolutely no regard to the needs of motorcyclists as we are a statistical minority dispersed throughout the morass of Irish local politics with no combined voting/lobbying power.
At this point your arguement is just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting over everyone.

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 1:50am

echomadman wrote: »

Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.

That is true. Over the last few years I have documented several hundred -- probably thousands -- of examples of footpath obstruction, in support of disability access etc.

Off the top of my head I can't recall any specific instances where I encountered a motorbike causing an obstruction. I have a few pix of pushbikes though (eg locked to the rail on a disabled ramp)!

I still think pedestrian, and especially disabled, facilities are off-limits though. Using footpaths as extra road or parking space should not be the soft option. If there is a shortage of proper parking then deal with that in its own right.

DanWall · 07-12-2011 1:53am

If the Garda can park cars half up the footpath, why can bikes not take up a bit of space? Also why is the footpath so wide?

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 1:53am

echomadman wrote: »

Life is hard and people and things get in your way a lot, blind or not.

Life is hard, so we should pay our parking fines and stop whinging about it!

And learn how to walk a few metres...

Iwannahurl · 07-12-2011 1:55am

DanWall wrote: »

If the Garda can park cars half up the footpath, why can bikes not take up a bit of space?

They can't and they shouldn't, IMO.

It's the same unwritten 'rule' again: when in doubt just take over the pedestrian space. Sure who's going to do anything about it [actual quote]?

echomadman · 07-12-2011 2:25am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I still think pedestrian, and especially disabled, facilities are off-limits though. Using footpaths as extra road or parking space should not be the soft option. If there is a shortage of proper parking then deal with that in its own right.

This could only be achieved by permanently designating pedestrian space to motorcycle parking, rather than the statistically minute amount of time any given bike will be occupying any given 2x1 metre space. Looking at the OP's picture again i would not hesitate to say that there is ample pedestrian capacity remaining given apparent traffic levels.

Blocking disabled access should result in a tow 100% of the time in my opinion.

I hate obnoxious parking, maybe not to the same fanatical degree you seem to, but your own empirical study has shown that in general bikes may be illegally parked without being an inconvenience to anyone.

In general you pick your bikes parking spot very carefully, as people don't have the same inhibitions about climbing on/playing with bikes, or indeed moving them if they do turn out to be in the way. and people moving your bike leads me on to another one of your complaints, (maybe it was UDP): that bikes can "fall on people" From my experience thats usually people knocking them over on top of themselves by playing with them.

Parking "a few metres away" may mean parking where your bike can be easily stolen, and i know from repeated personal experience that the law generally doesn't do much to help in these situations either, maybe if they did i'd be more inclined to park legally 100% of the time.

The law, in this case is a bad one, even worse its inconsistently enforced, It should be reviewed, with a view to allowing footpath parking for bikes with a discretionary clause allowing for penalisation of people causing genuine obstructions.

Parking on footpath, done for 40e

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