Parking on footpath, done for 40e

Kintarō Hattori

gipi wrote: »

You may not be allowed to park in a car parking space either -for example, Dublin City Council's parking bye-laws specifically state that bikes can't park in a pay car parking space....(see paragraph 13)

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Parking/Documents/Dublin_City_Council_Parking_Control_Bye-Laws_2011.pdf

So we can't park on the pavement, we can't take up a pay parking space, there are no dedicated bike spaces.....

I don't own a bike nor do I drive so I'm not all that familiar with biking but....... eh where are you guys supposed to park a bike up if you can't use a paid parking space? That seems really stupid. You have a motorised vehicle that needs to be parked somewhere, so if you're willing to pay for the space I just don't get it.

Can anyone explain to me where you're supposed to park? I'm really surprised. I didn't know something as stupid as that existed.

UDP

Interceptor wrote: »

Your brown and yellow hat slipped over to the side there lad. Why are you even in here?

I dont have a brown and yellow hat and this is a public forum. I guess people don't like the truth pointed out to them and some bikers appear to be very sensitive to criticism.

Interceptor wrote: »

The rules of this site prevent me from suggesting you move back to your own country,

but yet you go ahead and try to say that in a round about way. I am in my own country unless of course you own it - do you?

Interceptor wrote: »

but I suspect you don't own a bike and you do own a little handheld ticket printer.

Yes, I must be a traffic warden for not agreeing that he was a c'unt for doing his job :rolleyes:

Interceptor

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I didn't know something as stupid as that existed.

Yes, as bikers we are marginalised, penalised and ignored despite paying tax on our vehicles, fuel, insurance and safety equipment. No quantity of bikes has ever caused a traffic jam (except on purpose) and a bike is the most efficient way of making the majority of inter-urban journeys where public transport isn't available.

We even have to put up with this:

UDP wrote: »

Yes, I must be a traffic warden :rolleyes:

'cptr

maameeo

is it actually illegal for a bike to park on a path? i didnt think it was as long as it wasnt obstructing anyone.

people would complain if we started taking up car park spaces with bikes, cant win either way.

the op parked on the path for 10mins, he provided pictures that show it wasnt obstructing anyone, ive seen bikes parked in all sorts of places in dublin and the gardai wouldnt bat an eyelid. its quite obvious that the traffic warden either had a bee up his bum that day or doesnt like bikes.

if a push bike was in the same place nothing would be said and there is more chance of a pushbike falling over then a motorbike!

Cuddlesworth

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me where you're supposed to park? I'm really surprised. I didn't know something as stupid as that existed.

The pavement, in line with the other obstructions and not blocking any crossings. And the traffic wardens/Gardai let us. Its where the traffic core park their bikes as well.

The anger here isn't the enforcement of the law, its the going against best practice. If I was in the same position I would email all your local Councillor's and the local council and in a calm and logical way query why you received a ticket for parking on the pavement when there are no parking facilities provided for bikes. If for nothing else they will either have to admin their hypocrisy or the traffic warden will get a bollocking.

UDP

maameeo wrote: »

is it actually illegal for a bike to park on a path? i didnt think it was as long as it wasnt obstructing anyone.

ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997 wrote:

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;
( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;
( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;
( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;
( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;
( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;
( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;
( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—
(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];
(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or
(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];
( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;
( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;
( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

maameeo wrote: »

people would complain if we started taking up car park spaces with bikes, cant win either way.

I wouldn't. You are entitled to park where you are entitled to park as long as it is legal.

maameeo wrote: »

the op parked on the path for 10mins, he provided pictures that show it wasnt obstructing anyone, ive seen bikes parked in all sorts of places in dublin and the gardai wouldnt bat an eyelid. its quite obvious that the traffic warden either had a bee up his bum that day or doesnt like bikes.

Firstly the Traffic Warden isn't to know it was just 10 minutes and just because some Gardai or other Traffic Wardens are not applying the law properly doesn't mean that all Gardai and Traffic Wardens shouldnt apply the law.

maameeo wrote: »

if a push bike was in the same place nothing would be said and there is more chance of a pushbike falling over then a motorbike!

It is not illegal for a push bike to park on a street as it is not mechanically propelled.

UDP

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If for nothing else they will either have to admin their hypocrisy or the traffic warden will get a bollocking.

See thats my problem with what people are saying here. They are suggesting that the Traffic Warden here was wrong and there has been a lot of abuse directed at him. The Traffic Warden was 100% correct here but yet he is a "c'unt", "Bastid", "moronic", "degenerate jobsworth", "pr1ck", "asshole", Nazi. Why should he get a bollocking?

If anything it is the council that need to ensure that spaces are provided for bikes so the anger should be directed towards them.

Paparazzo

UDP wrote: »

There was no gray area here for "common sense" to be applied. The bike was clearly on the path it wasn't half on it or on an unofficial path.

Ok, I guess there is never anything wrong with Motor Bikes? Nice to know they never leak and they never fall over and that they are light so would never injure anyone. Glad to know there are absolutes in this regard.

End of the day they are heavy machinery on a pedestrian path which is not allowed by law thus the Traffic Warden did his job correctly so there is no need for people to direct abuse at him. If everyone followed the law the country would be a better place instead of throwing hissy fits when the law is applied correctly.

Hey, just because all your points are completely stupid, and they're being pointed out as stupid, doesn't equal a "hissy fit"!
The bike might fall on someone!! And someone who enforces the law shouldn't use common sense? Another lol! Your 2 opinions there are so idiotic I'm not sure if you're trolling, you can't genuinely believe them? "The bike might leak"! lol! Suppose an old person might walk past and stand in the oil and fall? Keep your "many reasons" coming, these are great!

Cuddlesworth

UDP wrote: »

See thats my problem with what people are saying here. They are suggesting that the Traffic Warden here was wrong and there has been a lot of abuse directed at him. The Traffic Warden was 100% correct here but yet he is a "c'unt", "Bastid", "moronic", "degenerate jobsworth", "pr1ck", "asshole", Nazi. Why should he get a bollocking?

If anything it is the council that need to ensure that spaces are provided for bikes so the anger should be directed towards them.

The traffic warden is employed by the council. As I said before, its best practice across the country to ignore bikes parked on pavements as long as they are not impeding anybody. The wardens and councils are obviously fine with this as otherwise they could issue a couple of thousand tickets a day in Dublin alone. The warden has been targeted as its not a council policy to do this, hence it was his decision.

Paparazzo

I dont know of any pay and display you can park in. This was a one off, but if it wasn't, it would mean any city or town you drive into, you basically can't park. Dublin has 2 spots as far as I know.
I reckon if you rang the council and sent in the photos, they'd have a word with the warden and tell him to use a bit of cop on.

jimmyendless

Hey UDP,

Bikes are parked on footpaths all over the country. I wasn't crazy to think that it would be the same in collig.

There are plenty of different rules and laws that might be written, but are not enforced. I didn't realise I was breaking the law. If I knew I would have been taken up those nice spacious car spaces. Instead I parked near a bin and a tree. The warden could have used common sense or at least given me a warning for the ten minutes I was collecting my dole.

Bikes don't fall over without alot of help and these days most don't leak. As far as visually impaired people, to tell you the truth they hadn't crossed my mind but I normally park off the beaten path causing as little obstruction as possible. Parking there I thought it was safe for my bike and others.

The warden also knows there are no bike spaces.

Sure the warden might have done it to the letter of the law but it was still harsh and him a prick.
When I confronted him about it he also said if was a danger to children who would knock it on themselves.

Its just an ignorance of what bikes are really.

turbodiesel

UDP wrote: »

It is not illegal for a push bike to park on a street as it is not mechanically propelled.

Yeah, but if it was parked in the same manner as the photos of the DR650 then it would be blocking the pavement in the same manner (seen as we are supposed to be following the letter of the law and ignoring a bit of common sense) and presumably could be removed/taken into the custody of the police for obstruction.....

UDP

Paparazzo wrote: »

Hey, just because all your points are completely stupid, and they're being pointed out as stupid, doesn't equal a "hissy fit"!

Making a big deal out of someone breaking the law and getting fined by the person responsible for applying the law is throwing a hissy fit. I might agree with people here if this case fell under a grey area but the fact is that the OP even posted photos showing that he had parked on the footpath.

Paparazzo wrote: »

The bike might fall on someone!! And someone who enforces the law shouldn't use common sense?
Another lol! Your 2 opinions there are so idiotic I'm not sure if you're trolling, you can't genuinely believe them? "The bike might leak"! lol! Suppose an old person might walk past and stand in the oil and fall? Keep your "many reasons" coming, these are great!

Fact remains that parking a motorised vehicle on a footpath is illegal and I would hope that all Traffic Wardens would issue fines for such illegal acts.

UDP

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The traffic warden is employed by the council. As I said before, its best practice across the country to ignore bikes parked on pavements as long as they are not impeding anybody. The wardens and councils are obviously fine with this as otherwise they could issue a couple of thousand tickets a day in Dublin alone. The warden has been targeted as its not a council policy to do this, hence it was his decision.

So it is official council policy to allow people to break the law.

turbodiesel

UDP wrote: »

Making a big deal out of someone breaking the law and getting fined by the person responsible for applying the law is throwing a hissy fit. I might agree with people here if this case fell under a grey area but the fact is that the OP even posted photos showing that he had parked on the footpath.

He posted the photos to show that he had parked sensibly......

UDP

jimmyendless wrote: »

Bikes are parked on footpaths all over the country. I wasn't crazy to think that it would be the same in collig.

Thats no excuse. Just because others do it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Plenty of people litter all over the country but that doesn't mean that it is not against the law and should not be punished.

jimmyendless wrote: »

There are plenty of different rules and laws that might be written, but are not enforced. I didn't realise I was breaking the law. If I knew I would have been taken up those nice spacious car spaces. Instead I parked near a bin and a tree. The warden could have used common sense or at least given me a warning for the ten minutes I was collecting my dole.

Firstly every law out there has the potential to be used and should be used or else repealed. Road users are supposed to know the rules of the road and you are supposed to know it is illegal to park on a footpath. You should have taken any legal parking space. Is the Traffic Warden supposed to time you for the 10 minutes? When is the cut off threshold of what is too long? 11 minutes? 15 minutes?

jimmyendless wrote: »

Bikes don't fall over without alot of help and these days most don't leak.

Glad to know bikes cant fall over and never leak.

jimmyendless wrote: »

As far as visually impaired people, to tell you the truth they hadn't crossed my mind but I normally park off the beaten path causing as little obstruction as possible. Parking there I thought it was safe for my bike and others. .

but it was against the law and someone applying the law shouldn't be called every name under the sun for doing their job.

jimmyendless wrote: »

The warden also knows there are no bike spaces.

Is ballincollig entirely pay and display?

jimmyendless wrote: »

Sure the warden might have done it to the letter of the law but it was still harsh and him a prick.
When I confronted him about it he also said if was a danger to children who would knock it on themselves.

Its just an ignorance of what bikes are really.

Theres a reason for you right there like the one I gave already that it could fall over and injure someone

Bikes are too large and heavy to be on a footpath.

UDP

turbodiesel wrote: »

He posted the photos to show that he had parked sensibly......illegally

FYP

Iwannahurl

jimmyendless wrote: »

Bikes are parked on footpaths all over the country. I wasn't crazy to think that it would be the same in collig.

There are plenty of different rules and laws that might be written, but are not enforced.

I didn't realise I was breaking the law. If I knew I would have been taken up those nice spacious car spaces. Instead I parked near a bin and a tree. The warden could have used common sense or at least given me a warning for the ten minutes I was collecting my dole.

Bikes don't fall over without alot of help and these days most don't leak. As far as visually impaired people, to tell you the truth they hadn't crossed my mind but I normally park off the beaten path causing as little obstruction as possible. Parking there I thought it was safe for my bike and others.

The warden also knows there are no bike spaces.

Sure the warden might have done it to the letter of the law but it was still harsh and him a prick.

When I confronted him about it he also said if was a danger to children who would knock it on themselves.

Its just an ignorance of what bikes are really.

We've already had Nuremberg invoked! :rolleyes:

Now we have the "everybody else does it" argument.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I think I may have learned that principle in the first few years of secondary school.

The law against footpath parking has been around since 1997 or thereabouts, and it's clearly stated in the RoTR (page 116, IIRC) that you must not park on a footpath.

It seems we are surprised in this country when the law is enforced, and IMO it is the exception rather than the rule that parking on footpaths is penalised. That doesn't make it right, and it reflects badly on the attitude of the enforcers, IMO.

Because of this lack of enforcement, parking on footpaths (by cars and larger vehicles especially) is actually considered normal in this country. When footpath parkers are asked to move, or -- horror of horrors -- are issued with a ticket, indignation, incredulity and defensiveness are common responses.

You were ticketed for parking illegally. A fair cop, IMO, and therefore the ticket was justified.

However, the broader context is also important, IMO. If the local authority is rigorous about pursuing illegally parked motorbikes, but is also failing to provide adequate parking (while also catering for cars, perhaps) then overall that is unfair. However, the answer is not to park on the footpath but to lobby for better PWT parking.

At the end of the day you still have the option of parking elsewhere and walking to your destination.

dceire

The bike was parked in a considerate manner and if the warden applied just a little bit of common sense he would not have issued a ticket. I'm not saying that we should go around eating the head off of every warden but the world's not black and white. The infrastructure to facilitate bikes just isn't there and it's going to be a long time before it will be, if ever. In many cases we can't park in pay & display spaces nor do I think we should. Being both a bike and car driver, I think that while car spaces are at a premium they should remain specifically car spaces.

In an ideal world us bikers would be catered for but yet again we seem to be marginalised. In the mean time, let us park on footpaths as long as it's done with considerately there should be no problem. And, to dispel an apparent myth being propagated by some on here; a parked motorcycle is not going to jump out and attack passing pedestrians.

Paparazzo

jimmyendless, did the warden tell you where to park?
I was told by a guard not to park on a path once, so moved it about 20m down the road and parked alongside a bus shelter. Think the only reason he wanted it moved was because he was standing there "policing" the area (near lansdowne before a match) and I was hopping onto the kerb right in front of him.

UDP wrote: »

Making a big deal out of someone breaking the law and getting fined by the person responsible for applying the law is throwing a hissy fit. I might agree with people here if this case fell under a grey area but the fact is that the OP even posted photos showing that he had parked on the footpath.

We know it's illegal. You're pointing that out on average of 3 times a post now. It's not enforced because there's 2 spaces for motorcycles available in the entire country provided by councils. Should everyone stay at home till they provide spaces? This is the common sense thing. Guards use it all the time.

UDP wrote: »

Fact remains that parking a motorised vehicle on a footpath is illegal and I would hope that all Traffic Wardens would issue fines for such illegal acts.

Ah, so your "many reasons" you shouldn't park on a path are in fact 1 reason. It's illegal. 1 question. Where should people park? Not allowed to use car spaces. Where should the op park? This is for every city or town in the country, not just ballincollig.

jimmyendless

Originally Posted by JaneyMacker
You probably have three choices.
1 - Live in an apartment full of mold.
2 - Dry your clothes in a dryer.
3 - Dry your clothes inside but keep all the windows open all the time.

If you dont have a dryer tell your landlord he has two choices.

Its up to you how you want to live. If you get mold after drying clothes in an enclosed space and expect not to have any problems - Get in the thick queue.

Originally Posted by UDP
Many apartment blocks dont allow drying clothes on balconies and drying clothes in a dryer would cost an absolute fortune. I dry them outside despite it being against the rules as I have no choice but when it is windy and rainy then I also have no choice but to dry them inside.

I hope your don't get fined cause you broke the rules even if they are not practical.
Hopefully your letting agent would show some common sense.

Cuddlesworth

UDP wrote: »

So it is official council policy to allow people to break the law.

Yep. Do you think everybody should hold every law in this country to sacrosanct? How do you feel about the blasphemy law? "God is a wanker". Should the gardai now go to a judge and request a order to have my IP given by boards.ltd. Then have a order for Smart to disclose the owner. Then have a order done up for my Company to give details of who accessed this page at this time. Sure its the law, it must be followed 100% all the time right?

Or the private cars across the road from me parked two abreast in a loading bay for the duration of the day? Its the law right. The Gardai should definitely walk into the station, find the Gardai who own the cars and ticket each one right?

The law is very gray, its a complicated mess of rules and exclusions brought about by semi-vague wording generally leaving out obvious exceptions. Our State bodies are allowed use discretion and common sense when carrying out their duties. In this case, the warden chose not to. I would be inclined to believe that he didn't do it over the fact that the bike had broken the law, but rather that he had a personal grievance or issue with motorbikes at that moment.

A letter to his superiors would at least notify them of this crusade and allow them to make a informed and unbiased decision of whether or not his actions were justified.

UDP

jimmyendless wrote: »

I hope your don't get fined cause you broke the rules even if they are not practical.
Hopefully your letting agent would show some common sense.

But I wouldnt direct abuse at the person who issued the fine unless they were the ones creating the policies - I wouldn't call them a 'pr1ck' for just doing their job. Plus there is a big difference between the law of the land and general rules that are not legally binding.

Iwannahurl

dceire wrote: »

In the mean time, let us park on footpaths

No!

Paparazzo wrote: »

This is the common sense thing. Guards use it all the time.

Personally I am tired of "common sense" in this context meaning "let's use pedestrian space as extra road space".

Guards do this all the time too, ie ignore blatant obstruction of footpaths, or even engage in the same behaviour themselves. That's not common sense in my view, it's laziness and possibly even negligence, and it indicates a certain attitude towards the needs of pedestrians and disabled people..

jimmyendless

Rules are rules UDP and when you get a stupid fine I'm sure you would not get angry at all or do any venting on a forum.

You are a better type of person than I.

UDP

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yep. Do you think everybody should hold every law in this country to sacrosanct? How do you feel about the blasphemy law? "God is a wanker". Should the gardai now go to a judge and request a order to have my IP given by boards.ltd. Then have a order for Smart to disclose the owner. Then have a order done up for my Company to give details of who accessed this page at this time. Sure its the law, it must be followed 100% all the time right?

Yes, that law should be repealed and I would like to see someone done for it. Plus for what you posted you couldn't be done for under that law.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Or the private cars across the road from me parked two abreast in a loading bay for the duration of the day? Its the law right. The Gardai should definitely walk into the station, find the Gardai who own the cars and ticket each one right?

The Gardai should follow the law like anyone else unless they are exempted. Its this Irish attitude of "ah sure it'll be grand, no harm done" is why this countries services are often run badly. Then when someone actually does the job correctly people shout "Prick", "Nazi", "Asshole".... How dare you apply the law correctly! He should be fired for doing his job correctly!

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The law is very gray, its a complicated mess of rules and exclusions brought about by semi-vague wording generally leaving out obvious exceptions. Our State bodies are allowed use discretion and common sense when carrying out their duties. In this case, the warden chose not to. I would be inclined to believe that he didn't do it over the fact that the bike had broken the law, but rather that he had a personal grievance or issue with motorbikes at that moment.

Some parts of law are grey and vague and others are quite clear. The law with regards parking vehicles on footpaths is as black and white as they come.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

A letter to his superiors would at least notify them of this crusade and allow them to make a informed and unbiased decision of whether or not his actions were justified.

A letter to the council and a campaign to ensure there is adaquate parking facilities for Motor Bikes is what is needed - not an attack on a person doing their job correctly.

Cuddlesworth

UDP wrote: »

But I wouldnt direct abuse at the person who issued the fine unless they were the ones creating the policies - I wouldn't call them a 'pr1ck' for just doing their job. Plus there is a big difference between the law of the land and general rules that are not legally binding.

As has been explained, his job is not to fine bikes. He can do it, but it is not a requirement laid out by his superiors. And in principal, not following your tenant rules due to necessity is the same as not following the law and parking on pavements due to necessity.

UDP

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

As has been explained, his job is not to fine bikes. He can do it, but it is not a requirement laid out by his superiors.

I very much doubt he is specifically told not to fine bikes. They are there to uphold the law with regards parking and he should treat everyone fairly.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And in principal, not following your tenant rules due to necessity is the same as not following the law and parking on pavements due to necessity.

Completely different - one would be a civil disagreement and the other is statutory law. Either way a person just doing their job should not have abuse directed at them.

sleepysniper

Originally Posted by ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997
(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;
( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;
( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;
( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;
( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;
( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;
( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;
( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—
(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];
(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or
(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];
( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;
( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;
( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

These laws were implemented/last updated in '97. Almost 15 years ago. I think it may need to be updated seen as there so many PC A-Holes around theses days:rolleyes:

So UPD where do you suggest motorbikes are parked then if there is no designated parking bays are provided for motorbikes? Walk? Sorry but living 10 miles from the city and walking there is not very convenient believe it or not.:rolleyes:

Pataman

UDP wrote: »

A letter to the council and a campaign to ensure there is adaquate parking facilities for Motor Bikes is what is needed - not an attack on a person doing their job correctly.

How long is that going to take? MAG Ireland have been campaigning for bikes to use the bus lane for years and it has fallen on deaf ears.
In the meantime should we not use our bikes?