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Parking on footpath, done for 40e
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That is a nonsensical argument, anything could be in that spot from day to day, groups of people, bicycles, bins.Iwannahurl wrote: »The existing features such as trees may be either permanent or long-standing. A blind or vision-impaired person may have familiarised themselves with existing features or hazards. A new or unexpected obstacle, such as an illegally or obnoxiously parked vehicle, may pose an additional hazard.
You say illegally and obnoxiously, while the bike in the OP may be illegal by the letter of the law it is hardly obnoxious.
Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.
Bikes are, in my opinion, incorrectly lumped in with 4 wheeled vehicles in Irish laws regarding parking and use of buslanes. they simply don't have the same physical footprint on the road or on the footpath. This opinion is clearly shared by the majority of our states parking law enforcers, be they Gardai or Traffic wardens, as i have honestly never heard of anyone being done for this before i read this thread.
Screaming "its the law, deal with it" over and over again doesn't make that law inviolable. There are lots of laws that need amending to better suit day to day reality.0 -
If the bike wasn't parked there and a blind person was walking down that section of the path they would walk directly into several other obstructions. They therefore would decided themselves to walk the route which doesn't lead them into trees. This is obvious stuff.
I live in Sligo. I literally have no choice but to park on a footpath or occupy a pay and display space. I'm going to continue parking on footpaths. Thats why I'm discussing this.
Why are you discussing this? Other than to push the message of blindly following the regulations set by our wonderful overlords, lest we should have to resort to common sense.
Who should decide where a blind person can or can not, may or may not, walk?
No choice but to park on the footpath? That's a common excuse I hear: "where else can I park?" Often said while the offender is standing beside a perfectly good road.
I've also heard the "common sense" argument in similar circumstances. Odd how often motorists want to exercise their alleged common sense on the footpath rather than the road.
If there was more enforcement, as I think there should be, people's notion of "common sense" in this regard would evolve PDQ.
I don't know the specifics of Sligo, but are you adamant that there isn't a single spot for parking PTWs anywhere within reasonable walking distance of the town centre?
I've only ever walked or driven a car around Sligo, but I am aware that there are one or two mult-storey car parks. Are PTWs not allowed in them either?0 -
Iwannahurl wrote: »I've only ever walked or driven a car around Sligo, but I am aware that there are one or two mult-storey car parks? Are PTWs not allowed in them either?
I have never been allowed into one on a bike.0 -
echomadman wrote: »That is a nonsensical argument, anything could be in that spot from day to day, groups of people, bicycles, bins.
You say illegally and obnoxiously, while the bike in the OP may be illegal by the letter of the law it is hardly obnoxious.
Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.
Bikes are, in my opinion, incorrectly lumped in with 4 wheeled vehicles in Irish laws regarding parking and use of buslanes. they simply don't have the same physical footprint on the road or on the footpath. This opinion is clearly shared by the majority of our states parking law enforcers, be they Gardai or Traffic wardens, as i have honestly never heard of anyone being done for this before i read this thread.
Screaming "its the law, deal with it" over and over again doesn't make that law inviolable. There are lots of laws that need amending to better suit day to day reality.
Such objects, usually, don't drop out of the sky. They are put there by humans. Inappropriately placed street furniture, bins, bollards, advertising signs, and indeed obnoxiously parked bicycles etc have all been identified by disabled groups as potential obstacles or hazards.
Groups of people may also constitute an obstacle. I attended a recent meeting to mark Accessibility Week 2011. One disability advocate remarked how obnoxious some people can be when standing in a group on a pavement. Some actually take offence to being politely asked to make way for a disabled person.
Footpath parking is extremely common. The fact that enforcers frequently ignore it, or engage in such obnoxious parking themselves, doesn't make it right. There is a lot of behaviour in this country that needs to be amended to take account of the law, and of basic good manners.
The Rules of the Road book is not a menu. Suggesting that the RoTR is not inviolable, so that a motorist's convenience can take precedence, is highly questionable IMO. It's a common view though, if the standard of driving (and parking) in Ireland is anything to go by.0 -
Iwannahurl wrote: »Such objects, usually, don't drop out of the sky. They are put there by humans. Inappropriately placed street furniture, bins, bollards, advertising signs, and indeed obnoxiously parked bicycles etc have all been identified by disabled groups as potential obstacles or hazards.
Groups of people may also constitute an obstacle. I attended a recent meeting to mark Accessibility Week 2011. One disability advocate remarked how obnoxious some people can be when standing in a group on a pavement. Some actually take offence to being politely asked to make way for a disabled person.
That was my point, earlier you claimed that the motorbike represented an bolt from the blue unknown obstacle to these visually impaired savants precisely memorised route between the bin and the tree. Life is hard and people and things get in your way a lot, blind or not.The Rules of the Road book is not a menu. Suggesting that the RoTR is not inviolable, so that a motorist's convenience can take precedence, is highly questionable IMO. It's a common view though, if the standard of driving (and parking) in Ireland is anything to go by.
Bikes in buslanes is a rider safety and traffic reduction measure that is legal in many countries but not here, are these other countries laws wrong?
Bikes parking on footpaths is legal in many countries, are their laws wrong?
Laws don't spring fully formed from the legal pad of whatever diety you kowtow to. They are written by generally flawed people and require regular review as their implementation in the real world is assesed.
Can you accept that it is entirely possible that the Irish laws were written up with absolutely no regard to the needs of motorcyclists as we are a statistical minority dispersed throughout the morass of Irish local politics with no combined voting/lobbying power.
At this point your arguement is just sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting over everyone.0 -
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echomadman wrote: »Its worth noting that all the obnoxiously parked vehicles you are touting are in fact cars or vans. you would have to go out of your way to cause an obstruction like any of those on a motorbike.
That is true. Over the last few years I have documented several hundred -- probably thousands -- of examples of footpath obstruction, in support of disability access etc.
Off the top of my head I can't recall any specific instances where I encountered a motorbike causing an obstruction. I have a few pix of pushbikes though (eg locked to the rail on a disabled ramp)!
I still think pedestrian, and especially disabled, facilities are off-limits though. Using footpaths as extra road or parking space should not be the soft option. If there is a shortage of proper parking then deal with that in its own right.0 -
If the Garda can park cars half up the footpath, why can bikes not take up a bit of space? Also why is the footpath so wide?0
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echomadman wrote: »Life is hard and people and things get in your way a lot, blind or not.
Life is hard, so we should pay our parking fines and stop whinging about it!
And learn how to walk a few metres...0 -
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Iwannahurl wrote: »I still think pedestrian, and especially disabled, facilities are off-limits though. Using footpaths as extra road or parking space should not be the soft option. If there is a shortage of proper parking then deal with that in its own right.
This could only be achieved by permanently designating pedestrian space to motorcycle parking, rather than the statistically minute amount of time any given bike will be occupying any given 2x1 metre space. Looking at the OP's picture again i would not hesitate to say that there is ample pedestrian capacity remaining given apparent traffic levels.
Blocking disabled access should result in a tow 100% of the time in my opinion.
I hate obnoxious parking, maybe not to the same fanatical degree you seem to, but your own empirical study has shown that in general bikes may be illegally parked without being an inconvenience to anyone.
In general you pick your bikes parking spot very carefully, as people don't have the same inhibitions about climbing on/playing with bikes, or indeed moving them if they do turn out to be in the way. and people moving your bike leads me on to another one of your complaints, (maybe it was UDP): that bikes can "fall on people" From my experience thats usually people knocking them over on top of themselves by playing with them.
Parking "a few metres away" may mean parking where your bike can be easily stolen, and i know from repeated personal experience that the law generally doesn't do much to help in these situations either, maybe if they did i'd be more inclined to park legally 100% of the time.
The law, in this case is a bad one, even worse its inconsistently enforced, It should be reviewed, with a view to allowing footpath parking for bikes with a discretionary clause allowing for penalisation of people causing genuine obstructions.0 -
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Iwannahurl wrote: »Blind people can't see anything.
The existing features such as trees may be either permanent or long-standing. A blind or vision-impaired person may have familiarised themselves with existing features or hazards. A new or unexpected obstacle, such as an illegally or obnoxiously parked vehicle, may pose an additional hazard.
Why would a blind person need to be where the OP's parked? There is a ped crossing nearby so they can only cross the road there.
If blind people can't see anything how do they manage to get to where the OP's parked. If they can't see then a child in the place where the OPs parked is a danger. Also if they've the ability to walk around our streets without sight then the OPs bike shouldn't be an issue as it is relatively large.
As you've already said motorcyclists generally don't block footpaths. We try and find an out of the way place so people don't jump on them. But if any motorcyclist blocks a path then they deserve the bike being lifted.Iwannahurl wrote: »Life is hard, so we should pay our parking fines and stop whinging about it!
And learn how to walk a few metres...
If there's no where legal to park what are you supposed to do? In Dublin it's illegal for a motorcycle to use a pay and display bay, the multi stories don't recognise bikes so the barriers won't go up and there are only 2 legal bike parking bays. MAG has been campaigning for years for bike parking yet none of our elected representatives are doing anything about it. In fact they are totally ignoring one of the best potential jam busters around.
Would you have told this person that the law is the law. As you see the law can be wrong and it can take years to fix or not fix.0 -
echomadman wrote: »This could only be achieved by permanently designating pedestrian space to motorcycle parking, rather than the statistically minute amount of time any given bike will be occupying any given 2x1 metre space. Looking at the OP's picture again i would not hesitate to say that there is ample pedestrian capacity remaining given apparent traffic levels.
The law, in this case is a bad one, even worse its inconsistently enforced, It should be reviewed, with a view to allowing footpath parking for bikes with a discretionary clause allowing for penalisation of people causing genuine obstructions.
Proposing that pedestrian space be reallocated to motorcycle parking is barking up entirely the wrong tree, IMO.
IIRC an earlier post mentioned that PTWs reduce traffic congestion by taking up less road space. Same applies to parking: how many average-sized motorbikes could you fit into a car parking space?
If more PTW and bicycle parking is needed -- and I believe it is -- then one good way to create the necessary space is by taking out on-street car parking.
Excess provision of car parking, along with sub-optimal pricing of parking and inadequate enforcement, is a direct cause of traffic congestion and unnecessary traffic. If parking regulations are inconsistently enforced then the fault lies with the law enforcers not the law.
Leave the foot-sloggers alone: they are part of the solution to traffic problems, not part of the problem itself.0 -
Why would a blind person need to be where the OP's parked? There is a ped crossing nearby so they can only cross the road there.
If blind people can't see anything how do they manage to get to where the OP's parked. If they can't see then a child in the place where the OPs parked is a danger. Also if they've the ability to walk around our streets without sight then the OPs bike shouldn't be an issue as it is relatively large.
As you've already said motorcyclists generally don't block footpaths. We try and find an out of the way place so people don't jump on them. But if any motorcyclist blocks a path then they deserve the bike being lifted.
If there's no where legal to park what are you supposed to do? In Dublin it's illegal for a motorcycle to use a pay and display bay, the multi stories don't recognise bikes so the barriers won't go up and there are only 2 legal bike parking bays. MAG has been campaigning for years for bike parking yet none of our elected representatives are doing anything about it. In fact they are totally ignoring one of the best potential jam busters around.
Would you have told this person that the law is the law. As you see the law can be wrong and it can take years to fix or not fix.
That's a new one! Thing is, Nelson Mandela ended up being jailed for 27 years because he was (a) black, (b) a militant anti-apartheid activist and (c) targeted by a brutally oppressive state. As far as I know, none of his campaigning against racism and extreme injustice involved deliberately parking on the footpath, even in Whites-only areas.
I've acknowledged the jam-busting benefits of PTWs, and I suggested one solution to the parking shortage: remove car-parking spaces and reallocate the space to PTWs and push-bikes.
The problem, as I see it, is that footpath parking is a handy quick fix for various interest groups, including and perhaps especially the authorities, who can't be arsed to come up with sustainable solutions, particularly when political will might be called for. Turn a blind eye to the taking over of footpaths by motorists and, hey presto, extra road space (for the people who matter) without spending a penny!
Earlier this year Dublin City Council seriously considered removing the prohibition on footpath parking as a means of reducing traffic congestion! The mind boggles.0 -
How is this being turned into such an issue. Bikers don't want parking spaces, we get along just fine the way it is parking on paths. This ticket was a complete one off.
As for the "it's illegal therefore it's wrong" brigade, well, seems like there's one official in the country that agrees with you, and that's the traffic warden in Ballincollig. And chances are, he'll be told to not to ticket someone for it again.
So sensible footpath parking will thankfull continue, and I can drive into any town or city and park0
This discussion has been closed.
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