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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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Comments

  • #992
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    Thats why I used carra as an example to make sure the langauge barrier was still there!



    I think in the case of Carragher, it is more a barrier created by dialect and poor enunciation, than a true language barrier.:D


  • #993
    Mr Alan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    DOC09UNAM wrote: »
    This.

    Nobody is at fault, just misinterpretation imo.

    Just declare suarez innocent and have evra apologize and it is done with.

    +1


  • #994
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    Evra has to apologise for getting offended? Even though the word can be offensive.

    But Suarez doesn't have to apologise for using this term, which CAN be offensive.

    Right.


  • #995
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Des wrote: »
    Evra has to apologise for getting offended? Even though the word can be offensive.

    But Suarez doesn't have to apologise for using this term, which CAN be offensive.

    Right.


    Calling someone buddy is offensive now? Evra should apologise for lying. He also be warned not to spout ****e off to the media.


  • #996
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    Des wrote: »
    Evra has to apologise for getting offended? Even though the word can be offensive.

    But Suarez doesn't have to apologise for using this term, which CAN be offensive.

    Right.

    Evra should apologise for defamation of Suarez's character imo, from the outside, it looks like a simple case of misinterpretation, I have no doubt that Suarez didn't mean it in a racist way, considering his work with anti-racism groups.
    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Calling someone buddy is offensive now? Evra should apologise for lying. He also be warned not to spout ****e off to the media.

    Evra didn't neccessarily lie, he may have thought that Suarez was being racist, but it looks clear that he was wrong about the meaning of the word, I don't blame Evra for thinking it was racist, but I wouldn't say he was lying, I would assume he was mistaken tbh.


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  • #997
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    DOC09UNAM wrote: »
    Evra didn't neccessarily lie, he may have thought that Suarez was being racist, but it looks clear that he was wrong about the meaning of the word, I don't blame Evra for thinking it was racist, but I wouldn't say he was lying, I would assume he was mistaken tbh.



    He lied about it being on camera, unless he can provide camera clips then he should apologise for that. FA should implement a rule where players who make a claim of rascism can't comment to the media about it, just creates a bad situation.


  • #998
    Mr Alan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    As a result of this case (& in line with what I've been annoyed about since it broke), there should be the introduction of an official process by which these complaints are made, part of which should (quite obviously) include not running to the media giving your version of events before the incident has been investigated. Unfortunately as a result of Evra doing that, Suarez will forever be labelled a racist by some.


  • #999
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    SlickRic wrote: »
    i'd love to see this whole thing if it was the other way round.

    i'd bet my house you'd be calling it a misunderstanding if de Gea called Glen Johnson "Negrito" right after a hefty challenge in the box or something.

    That's a ridiculous post tbh. If this was the other way round, there would be the usual idiots stoutly defending United and Liverpool regardless of what actually happened and there would be people in the middle trying to judge things as they see them.

    As it is, we still don't know anything and most people are basically talking about of their arse.


  • #1000
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    He lied about it being on camera, unless he can provide camera clips then he should apologise for that. FA should implement a rule where players who make a claim of rascism can't comment to the media about it, just creates a bad situation.

    Getting something wrong is not necessarily lying. Given he is not working for Sky, he obviously would not know one way or the other what was on camera. If it did happen, it wouldn't be crazy to assume it may have been caught on camera.

    Letting it out in the media was stupid, but again if it were true, emotions would understandably be raised.


  • #1001
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    parker kent wrote: »
    Getting something wrong is not necessarily lying. Given he is not working for Sky, he obviously would not know one way or the other what was on camera. If it did happen, it wouldn't be crazy to assume it may have been caught on camera.

    Letting it out in the media was stupid, but again if it were true, emotions would understandably be raised.


    Then why he he say this?
    “There were (TV) cameras,” Evra told Canal Plus. ”You can see him telling me this one word at least 10 times. There is no room for this in 2011.”

    He says it was on camera and we can see him say the word, however no one has seen any footage of this video. It's a lie to imply something as fact when you have no clue if it is or not.


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  • #1002
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Kess73 wrote: »
    That's where I was going with the differences between the Spanish language in Spain (and mainland Europe) and the varients of the Spanish languiage in South America.

    Negrito seems to mean mate or pal in Uraguay (and seemingly amongst young Spaniards, as Pacheco showed) as well as some of the other South American countries where it gets used both as a friendly term and as a sarcastic one similar to how the word mate can be used in english speaking countries, but if the word is taken literally in Spain it means little black person, and a google search shows it to also be the term used for pygmies in Asia and Africa by European explorers.

    It doesn't sound to me like it is a term used quite like 'mate' in English because it seems to be used when addressing black people, rather than all people. I'm not sure that this is a word that has changed so much in its use that it is used when addressing people who aren't black. Saying ''my black friends from back home don't mind when I call them 'little black guy''' doesn't necessarily make it okay. Especially when you consider the fact that the two guys aren't friends and were actually arguing.

    Using 'mate' sarcastically when arguing with someone is one thing, but using a racial term during an argument is taking a bit of liberty tbf.
    niallo27 wrote: »
    One would could also say it could be seen as a misunderstanding between the players.

    Do you think that this means you weren't being thick earlier when you made up your mind about what had happened before you had heard all the evidence? You believed Suarez's side of the story because he is a Liverpool player. You even admitted this bias.

    You seem to have a mental block when it comes to following a normal conversation and logical flow. I'm not going to argue with you if you think you have been proven right, because I genuinely don't believe you are even able to understand most of the simple points that were put to you in this thread.


  • #1003
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Then why he he say this?



    He says it was on camera and we can see him say the word, however no one has seen any footage of this video. It's a lie to imply something as fact when you have no clue if it is or not.

    How do you know he is lying and not just mistaken? Suarez has (maybe, sort of, it's hard to know yet) admitted that he used 'negrito' and there is no camera evidence of him saying that either. The truth is nobody - not Evra, not the press and not the posters on here - knows how likely the words are to be caught on camera and how reliably they could be lip read. In order to lie Evra would have had to know that the words weren't caught on camera.

    It seems like a remarkably silly line of arguing to insist that Evra is lying.

    Nobody has seen any footage beyond a very short gif of Suarez saying something btw.


  • #1004
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Pro. F wrote: »
    How do you know he is lying and not just mistaken? Suarez has (maybe, sort of, it's hard to know yet) admitted that he used 'negrito' and there is no camera evidence of him saying that either. The truth is nobody - not Evra, not the press and not the posters on here - knows how likely the words are to be caught on camera and how reliably they could be lip read. In order to lie Evra would have had to know that the words weren't caught on camera.

    It seems like a remarkably silly line of arguing to insist that Evra is lying.

    Nobody has seen any footage beyond a very short gif of Suarez saying something btw.


    Anyone saying he has seen video footage of something he hasn't actually seen is a liar. You say nobody knows how likely the words to be caught on camera, then why did Evra say the words were caught on cmaera before he's seen any footage? It was extremely stupid of Evra to say that.


  • #1005
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Anyone saying he has seen video footage of something he hasn't actually seen is a liar. You say nobody knows how likely the words to be caught on camera, then why did Evra say the words were caught on cmaera before he's seen any footage? It was extremely stupid of Evra to say that.
    He never said he seen it,he assumed.
    Jesus you're getting as bad as Alan ffs


  • #1006
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Do you think that this means you weren't being thick earlier when you made up your mind about what had happened before you had heard all the evidence? You believed Suarez's side of the story because he is a Liverpool player. You even admitted this bias.

    You seem to have a mental block when it comes to following a normal conversation and logical flow. I'm not going to argue with you if you think you have been proven right, because I genuinely don't believe you are even able to understand most of the simple points that were put to you in this thread.

    Apology accepted, I believed Suarez because what he said make sense, why come out and lie about something when there was no need for him to do it. It was logical to think it was a misunderstanding, i don't know why you lack the intelligence to understand this.


  • #1007
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    He never said he seen it,he assumed.
    Jesus you're getting as bad as Alan ffs

    Why did he say this then?
    ”You can see him telling me this one word at least 10 times. ”



    07-minister.jpg

    "He never said you could see it on camera"


  • #1008
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Why did he say this then?
    ”You can see him telling me this one word at least 10 times. ”


    Wasn't it said straight after the game and obviously before he got time to look at footage.
    It's called an assumption,could even have been lost in translation for all I or you know.


  • #1009
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    Wasn't it said straight after the game and obviously before he got time to look at footage.
    It's called an assumption,could even have been lost in translation for all I or you know.


    Saying you have seen something when you haven't is called lying.


  • #1010
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    I have to say I'm disgusted by the attitude of a good chunk of my fellow Liverpool supporters in this thread.

    We used to be considered an intelligent bunch of fans.


  • #1011
    Mr Alan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I have to say I'm disgusted by the attitude of a good chunk of my fellow Liverpool supporters in this thread.

    That's kind of funny.


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  • #1012
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    cambo2008 wrote: »
    Wasn't it said straight after the game and obviously before he got time to look at footage.
    It's called an assumption,could even have been lost in translation for all I or you know.


    Saying you have seen something when you haven't is called lying.
    He said you can see him,not I seen him.
    As I said it could be lost in translation either.

    On a side note,are we 100% certain that sky don't have any footage.
    Correct me if I'm wrong here I've been away the last while and have not seen much sky television but did they show any of their John Terry footage which they clearly have??
    The only footage I have seen of that is on YouTube and its not official footage,just recorded with a camera pointed at a television,I can't find any official footage.


  • #1013
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    That's kind of funny.

    I'm serious.

    You and the rest of the Rafa brigade are a disgrace in this thread. I'm reading your posts through my fingers.


  • #1014
    Mr Alan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    You and the rest of the Rafa brigade are a disgrace in this thread. I'm reading your posts through my fingers.

    Talking about Rafa again?! :eek:

    Your obsession is seriously creepy


  • #1015
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    You and the rest of the Rafa brigade are a disgrace in this thread. I'm reading your posts through my fingers.

    You have to get over your obsession, it's not healthy. It's time to move on.


  • #1016
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    You and the rest of the Rafa brigade are a disgrace in this thread. I'm reading your posts through my fingers.


    Is that better or worse then most people reading yours through tears of laughter?


  • #1017
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    ilovelamp2000 wrote: »
    I'm serious.

    You and the rest of the Rafa brigade are a disgrace in this thread. I'm reading your posts through my fingers.

    What's your professional opinion on it?

    Evra could well have seen video footage, it wouldn't take that long.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1018
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    Will those Liverpool fans who accused Evra of lying now admit they were wrong?

    Will they admit that Evra had a right to be offended given that what was said to him sounds remarkably like a common racial slur?

    And finally, its a gtreat pity Suarez didn't just explain himself and apologise after the game for the misunderstanding instead of letting this drag on like it did. If I was in a new country and had inadvertently offended someone by using a phrase that caused offence I'd want to explain myself and apologise straight away.

    He could have saved everyone an awful of of time and trouble by just explaining himself straight after the game.

    Those who immediately assumed Evra was a liar when the story broke look like right fools now too.


  • #1019
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Apology accepted,

    Ah I see what you did there. Clever.
    niallo27 wrote: »
    I believed Suarez because what he said make sense, why come out and lie about something when there was no need for him to do it. It was logical to think it was a misunderstanding, i don't know why you lack the intelligence to understand this.

    You are biased because he is a Liverpool player. You admitted that.

    What Suarez said was credible, but you're take on the whole debate was idiotic.


  • #1020
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    cambo2008 wrote: »
    He said you can see him,not I seen him.
    As I said it could be lost in translation either.

    I never realised that people took what Evra said as meaning that he had seen the footage. Now I understand why that was being brought up so much.

    It looks like it could be interpreted either way to me now, but I would still assume that he didn't mean that he had seen the footage.


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  • #1021
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Pro. F wrote: »
    Ah I see what you did there. Clever.



    You are biased because he is a Liverpool player. You admitted that.

    What Suarez said was credible, but you're take on the whole debate was idiotic.

    Well, I really don't understand why you got so worked up about what I though happened, I never once said it was fact, just my opinion, it made sense at the time and it does now as well. I am biased yes, but i did keep saying I thought evra was innocent as well.


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