Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

By vast majority I assume you mean 80% + think Evra is lying.

I'd say you are far off them mark.

Generalisations are the the fathers of all fúckups.

Isn't assumption the mother of all fúckups

SlickRic

cambo2008 wrote: »

From people's opinions on here and people I've been talking to in general.......yes,really.

but on here, people just want evidence. people have said repeatedly they want evidence, or questions have to be asked as to whether Evra is lying. is that not normal?

also, in terms of your above statement...i could say the same for the biased Utd fans i talk to in general too to be fair.

both sets of fans are somewhat biased towards their own player, to differing degrees depending on the individual fan.

to try and paint one set of fans as the ones who are jumping to all the conclusions, and the other set of fans as the one being totally rational, is a bit mental and unfair.

Will I Amnt

SlickRic wrote: »

both sets of fans are somewhat biased towards their own player, to differing degrees depending on the individual fan.

to try and paint one set of fans as the ones who are jumping to all the conclusions, and the other set of fans as the one being totally rational, is a bit mental and unfair.

I agree with the bolded part.
Look I obviously don't know what United fans you do be talking to but in my experience and from reading here they seem to be open to the fact that it's possible Evra is lying while still defending him against people that are convinced he's lying.

parker kent

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He should have retracted the statement "You can see him telling me this one word at least 10 times" because he unfairly implied that he had actually evidence of it. Whether a lie or incorrect assumption for me to say that and not clarify it is very poor form. Asking him to clarify that is in no way asking him to explain why it should be investigated.

NO. HE. DID. NOT. You assuming that he meant that, is not the same as him actually saying it. Then afterwards we have been told he has been advised to say nothing in public.

Got that?

Mr Alan

parker kent wrote: »

NO. HE. DID. NOT. You assuming that he meant that, is not the same as him actually saying it.

Evra wrote:

"There are cameras. You can see him (Suarez) say a certain word to me at least 10 times."

Yes. He. Did.

Chucky the tree

parker kent wrote: »

NO. HE. DID. NOT. You assuming that he meant that, is not the same as him actually saying it. Then afterwards we have been told he has been advised to say nothing in public.

Got that?

Actually you're the one assuming.

”You can see him telling me this one word at least 10 times"

It's perfectly clear what he said. However you and other United fans are assuming Evra was in fact assuming that it was caught on camera. I'm simply going by the exact words Evra used. Very poor behaviour by Evra in all of this.

Will I Amnt

Look lads,if he was implying that he seen it himself he would have said "I've seen him"

There's a few on here beating the same drum on this since day one,

Mr Alan

So what do you think he means?

I'm not really sure "you can see him say it on camera" can mean anything other than exactly what it says on the tin.......?!

He may not be saying, "I have actually seen the footage myself", but he is certainly saying the footage exists, which apparently, it doesn't.

Will I Amnt

It just comes back down to words you don't seem to grasp very well.........assumption and mistaken.

If I told you there's a crocodile in your back garden and you went out and it was an alligator,am I a liar

Pro. F

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Actually you're the one assuming.

It's perfectly clear what he said. However you and other United fans are assuming Evra was in fact assuming that it was caught on camera. I'm simply going by the exact words Evra used. Very poor behaviour by Evra in all of this.

Wasn't the interview given to French TV? So are the words we have here not just a translation?

Either way, getting all up set about which tense of the verb 'to be able to' he used is ridiculous.

It is not perfectly clear that he was saying that he had seen the footage.

Mr Alan

Oh lord.

That's an awful analogy.

More fitting would be if you said, "I can fly".

Then jumped off the Empire State Building & went splat into the ground.

Or to stick with your own analogy, if you said, "there's a crocidle in my living room".

And then we looked in & there was nothing there.

Pro. F wrote:

It is not perfectly clear that he was saying that he had seen the footage.

True. But it's perfectly clear he is saying that the footage exists.

Will I Amnt

Hence the smilies at the end,I thought it was funny.

Anyway if there was a crocodile in your living room I'd lock you in with the thing now at this stage.
You would probably still hear you as he was chewing on your head "but he said you can see him say it 10 times"

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

True. But it's perfectly clear he is saying that the footage exists.

No it's not.

uncleoswald

Is it really this difficult? How many posts on the subject!?

If something happened in an arena where there are dozens of cameras constantly filming you it is entirely reasonable to assume that the footage of that event exists. Yes how Evra worded it could be misinterpreted to mean said footage definitely exists, but I'd think you would have to be pretty bloody simple single-minded to not get the gist of what he was saying. I haven't seen this an issue anywhere other then with a few posters on here.

_blank_

cambo2008 wrote: »

Anyway if there was a crocodile in your living room I'd lock you in with the thing now at this stage.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Will those Liverpool fans who accused Evra of lying now admit they were wrong?

Will they admit that Evra had a right to be offended given that what was said to him sounds remarkably like a common racial slur?

I'm overwhelmed by the clamour to answer these two simple questions btw.

Nobody at all care to take an aul stab?

niallo27

flahavaj wrote: »

Nobody at all care to take an aul stab?

I answered you there last night, do you want us to feel sorry for him.

flahavaj

niallo27 wrote: »

I answered you there last night, do you want us to feel sorry for him.

Where?

niallo27

flahavaj wrote: »

Where?

I said all sides made mistakes, sure arent we are in a euro championship can't we all get along for the night.

SlickRic

Flah, why are you looking for a pound of flesh on this?

let's go after the Utd fans who outright called Suarez a racist too, no? oh wait, I couldn't be arsed.

very very few Liverpool fans called Evra a liar outright.

many said IF evidence doesn't come, then there has to be the possibility that he's lying.

both sides could've handled things better. Suarez could've maybe killed the issue dead immediately. by the same token, Evra could've made the complaint without going to the media first.

i can't wait until this whole fúcking thing is over.

K-9

It's the "them Liverpool fans are worse than us United fans thing". Flah thinks he has proved it, has his teeth in and isn't letting go.

flahavaj

K-9 wrote: »

It's the "them Liverpool fans are worse than us United fans thing". Flah thinks he has proved it, has his teeth in and isn't letting go.

Its more a "those who jumped to conclusions on the matter are getting called out on their prematurity" thing tbh. The veracity with which they made their point at the time was quite amusing, their absolute silence now even more so. Especially when you consider some of the protaganists posted incessantly in here when they were convinced they were right.

If you weren't one of those who posted prematurely then you have nothing to worry about.

K-9

flahavaj wrote: »

Its more a "those who jumped to conclusions on the matter are getting called out on their prematurity" thing tbh. The veracity with which they made their point at the time was quite amusing, their absolute silence now even more so. Especially when you consider some of the protaganists posted incessantly in here when they were convinced they were right.

If you weren't one of those who posted prematurely then you have nothing to worry about.

Well I could point out those who assumed Suarez was racist because of priors with biting etc., the usual idiots. Not worth the effort tbh. What's the point shooting fish in a barrel? Doesn't prove anything.

flahavaj

K-9 wrote: »

Well I could point out those who assumed Suarez was racist because of priors with biting etc., the usual idiots. Not worth the effort tbh. What's the point shooting fish in a barrel? Doesn't prove anything.

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if you did or if you don't. It has nothing to do with me as I didn't say anything of the sort in the first place, so I'd keep my nose out of it.

(Though the only one I can recall making outright allegations of that nature vs Suarez was Le King and I think he as even told off by United fans).

K-9

flahavaj wrote: »

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if you did or if you don't. It has nothing to do with me as I didn't say anything of the sort in the first place, so I'd keep my nose out of it.

(Though the only one I can recall making outright allegations of that nature vs Suarez was Le King and I think he as even told off by United fans).

So what is your point then?

United fans are better.

JimsAlterEgo

flahavaj wrote: »

Its more a "those who jumped to conclusions on the matter are getting called out on their prematurity" thing tbh. The veracity with which they made their point at the time was quite amusing, their absolute silence now even more so. Especially when you consider some of the protaganists posted incessantly in here when they were convinced they were right.

If you weren't one of those who posted prematurely then you have nothing to worry about.

In light of what has come out since, the pool statement for Evra to be banned was despicable.

SlickRic

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

In light of what has come out since, the pool statement for Evra to be banned was despicable.

fúcking hell.

Liverpool wanted Evra banned, only if the claims were proved to have no basis.

Liverpool have given their firm backing to Luis Suárez over his denial that he racially abused Patrice Evra at Anfield on Saturday – and want the Manchester United defender to receive a ban from the Football Association should his accusations prove groundless.

The Uruguay international has vehemently denied Evra's allegations that he racially abused him during Liverpool's 1-1 draw with United and will fight to clear his name if the FA decides to open a disciplinary case.

Suárez has also received a show of support from his employers. A Liverpool spokesman said: "Luis is adamant that he has not used language of that nature and the club is totally supportive of the player."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/16/liverpool-patrice-evra-luis-suarez

there's not a thing wrong with that. why would Liverpool just stand by while their player is being accused of racism? it's only normal to get vehemently behind their player.

bruschi

Has this thread gone full circle?

originally it was said that Suarez comments were 'lost in translation' and not intended as they seem. and people (mostly Liverpool fans) defended him for the cultural difference that may have happened.

and now it seems that Evra is being sought after for his post match comments on 'you can see him say it' and now Utd fans are defending him for the cultural difference that may have happened because English isnt his first language and it was on French TV.

seems a bit odd, that in the same thread and same argument, that both sets of fans are arguing for and against the very same points! that there is a misunderstanding in what the player said. and arguing against it ini that the player should have known better and he knew what he was saying.

Personally, I think that it was a big misunderstanding. Suarez called Evra a name. Its meaning was mis interpreted by Evra who got upset by thinking it was racist. Evra then went to the media and his version of how it would be seen was mis interpreted.

I genuinely think there was fault on both sides, and both made mistakes. Suarez shouldnt use a word that could so easily be taken as a racial slur. It was a poor choice of phrase and he should get a warning from the club over it.

Evra was rightly offended. If he doesnt know the word, then he is not going to take it as being innocent. But he should have reported it to the referee/FA and left it at that. Going on TV and making the claim he did shouldnt have happened. If Suarez had indeed been full on racist, it would have been made public, and Evra would have got his vindication that way. But by shooting his mouth off too early, he caused a situation that could have been easily resolved.

kop77

bruschi wrote: »

Has this thread gone full circle?

Yup, seems so.

The way I hope this ends may seem simple but......... if it was a case of 'lost in translation' from both sides then I would like to see a joint statement from LFC & UTD saying the issue between Suarez & Evra has been resloved. The two clubs, the FA and both players have spoken and the air has been cleared and we will continue the ................ good.... relationship between to two clubs. On to the next one! Not likely though......

Pro. F

bruschi wrote: »

Has this thread gone full circle?

originally it was said that Suarez comments were 'lost in translation' and not intended as they seem. and people (mostly Liverpool fans) defended him for the cultural difference that may have happened.

and now it seems that Evra is being sought after for his post match comments on 'you can see him say it' and now Utd fans are defending him for the cultural difference that may have happened because English isnt his first language and it was on French TV.

seems a bit odd, that in the same thread and same argument, that both sets of fans are arguing for and against the very same points! that there is a misunderstanding in what the player said. and arguing against it ini that the player should have known better and he knew what he was saying.

Personally, I think that it was a big misunderstanding. Suarez called Evra a name. Its meaning was mis interpreted by Evra who got upset by thinking it was racist. Evra then went to the media and his version of how it would be seen was mis interpreted.

I genuinely think there was fault on both sides, and both made mistakes. Suarez shouldnt use a word that could so easily be taken as a racial slur. It was a poor choice of phrase and he should get a warning from the club over it.

Evra was rightly offended. If he doesnt know the word, then he is not going to take it as being innocent. But he should have reported it to the referee/FA and left it at that. Going on TV and making the claim he did shouldnt have happened. If Suarez had indeed been full on racist, it would have been made public, and Evra would have got his vindication that way. But by shooting his mouth off too early, he caused a situation that could have been easily resolved.

Comparing a very slightly poorly worded sentence from Evra delivered in an ill-advised interview with the use of the word negrito by Suarez is ridiculous. The use of the word negrito was in fact offensive and not simply a cultural misunderstanding.

Of course Suarez and Evra may not have actually used the words attributed to them, but that's about as comparable as the two issues get.

Yes Evra made a very bad choice in talking to the press, but if it is true that Suarez used the word negrito then Evra going public is a minor issue in comparison.