Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Melion

Mod Note

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*****

Without wanting to start a Liverpool - United debate. I dont want to put this in the United thread and i dont think it belongs in the match thread either.

Could any punishment be handed down to Patrice Evra if these claims turn out to be false?

Will I Amnt

This wont last long

Melion

cambo2008 wrote: »

This wont last long

It will if people manage to not mention Liverpool, United or the match yesterday.

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

This wont last long

It will if people manage to not mention Liverpool, United or the match yesterday.

Well you have already made a false accusation about Evra in the op

michael999999

If the claims are found to be untrue, he should be sued for slander!

To answer your question I'd say yes there would and should be action.

However, if there is no evidence to support his claim then it may never be proved that what he said is untrue.

Unless he admitted he lied which obviously won't happen.

Hedman

Melion wrote: »

if his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?

Oh ffs, not this again.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Melion wrote: »

It will if people manage to not mention Liverpool, United or the match yesterday.

You already did in the OP, ffs.

Anyway, how can it be proved he was lying unless there was a camera in focus pointing at them whenever Evra and Suarez were beside each other. It will be near impossible to prove nothing was said, and it'd be very hard to determine whether anything was said.

Melion

cambo2008 wrote: »

Well you have already made a false accusation about Evra in the op

Did i?

Will I Amnt

Hedman wrote: »

Melion wrote: »

if his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?

Oh ffs

It's amazing how someone can miss the articles that have appeared numerous times in 3 different threads that clearly state he never made any such claims.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

You already did in the OP, ffs.

Anyway, how can it be proved he was lying unless there was a camera in focus pointing at them whenever Evra and Suarez were beside each other. It will be near impossible to prove nothing was said, and it'd be very hard to determine whether anything was said.

How did i? I didnt want any discussion of diving etc from yesterdays match

And if Evra is so adamant that it was said at least 10 times then surely there will be some proof of it. If the ref is aware of what was "said" then it would have been a red card instantly.

Melion

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's amazing how someone can miss the articles that have appeared numerous times in 3 different threads that clearly state he never made any such claims.

Unfortunately i dont read every thread on boards. If you would like to link me to the posts i will gladly read them.

TeddyTedson

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Melion wrote: »

How did i? I didnt want any discussion of diving etc from yesterdays match

And if Evra is so adamant that it was said at least 10 times then surely there will be some proof of it. If the ref is aware of what was "said" then it would have been a red card instantly.

Who said anything about diving?

There should be, but there might not be. How does Evra know what every camera was pointing at when(he claims) Luis Suarez said what is alleged to him.

The ref is aware that there was alleged racism. He didn't hear it himself, I presume.

Mr Alan

Probably good to have all the discussion of this in one thread tbh.

If Evra's claim that Suarez abused him at least 10 times & it can be seen on camera is proven to be false, he should have the book thrown at him. If its proven to be true, same for Suarez.

Cypher_sounds

No place for racism in soccer forum.

monkey9

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

Big difference between being called a ****** and being called a ginger

FYG

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

"Watch the ginger on the left" is your manager using an easily identifiable feature to instruct your team on what to do.

It's not the same as me going up to a black person and calling them a ****** to their face.

Totally different situations.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

Who said anything about diving?

There should be, but there might not be. How does Evra know what every camera was pointing at when(he claims) Luis Suarez said what is alleged to him.

The ref is aware that there was alleged racism. He didn't hear it himself, I presume.

I didnt read it but id be pretty confident there was lots of talk about diving in the match thread yesterday. Nothing for you to be confused about here.

"In an interview with French tv station Canal Plus, Evra said: “There are cameras. You can see him (Suarez) say a certain word to me at least 10 times."

Thats from Evra, that is HIM Saying that a camera seen it.

Hedman

Melion wrote: »

Unfortunately i dont read every thread on boards. If you would like to link me to the posts i will gladly read them.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74953612&postcount=5693

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74954785&postcount=5741

#15

Melion wrote: »

Without wanting to start a Liverpool - United debate. I dont want to put this in the United thread and i dont think it belongs in the match thread either.

Could any punishment be handed down to Patrice Evra if his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?

Despite not wanting to start a Liverpool-United debate, you decide to ask if a United player can be banned for making an allegation against a Liverpool player?

Anyway, before this thread gets going, you would need to check if some people can understand the difference between a false claim and insufficient evidence.

Otherwise you will have a load of people advocating bans for Evra in the event of an ''inconclusive'' judgement.
And that wouldn't help answer your question at all.

Mr Alan

FYG wrote: »

"Watch the ginger on the left" is your manager using an easily identifiable feature to instruct your team on what to do.

It's not the same as me going up to a black person and calling them a ****** to their face.

Totally different situations.

What about if someone was squaring up to Steve Sidwell & said, "get out of my face you ginger fool"......that's the same tbh.

However, that's a different conversation, more around the politically correct nature of the society we live in.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Melion wrote: »

I didnt read it but id be pretty confident there was lots of talk about diving in the match thread yesterday. Nothing for you to be confused about here.

"In an interview with French tv station Canal Plus, Evra said: “There are cameras. You can see him (Suarez) say a certain word to me at least 10 times."

Thats from Evra, that is HIM Saying that a camera seen it.

You're the one that brought up diving in this thread. Nothing for you to be confused about here.

He says there are cameras, which there obviously are. How can he know exactly that a camera can see Suarez's mouth clearly enough for someone to lip read what he says?

BTW, he never said that a particular camera saw it.

Blatter

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

:rolleyes:

3hn2givr7mx1sc

monkey9 wrote: »

Big difference between being called a ****** and being called a ginger

I find your surname offensive.

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

It's amazing how someone can miss the articles that have appeared numerous times in 3 different threads that clearly state he never made any such claims.

Unfortunately i dont read every thread on boards. If you would like to link me to the posts i will gladly read them.

Liverpool and United superthreads and the match thread ???
You didn't read any of them lately???

Mr Alan

#15 wrote: »

Otherwise you will have a load of people advocating bans for Evra in the event of an ''inconclusive'' judgement.

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

If Evra is found to have lied (he says it was said at least ten times & it can be seen on the TV cameras), then he should be facing a lengthy ban.

monkey9

#15 wrote: »

Despite not wanting to start a Liverpool-United debate, you decide to ask if a United player can be banned for making an allegation against a Liverpool player?

Anyway, before this thread gets going, you would need to check if some people can understand the difference between a false claim and insufficient evidence.

Otherwise you will have a load of people advocating bans for Evra in the event of an ''inconclusive'' judgement.
And that wouldn't help answer your question at all.

We need just need to look at the footage that Evra claims exists of Suarez racially abusing him, then we can move on once Suarez is banned! No need for any 'inconclusive judgement'. Evra has made the allegation, it shall be easy to prove once this video that Evra claims exists is viewed

Melion

cambo2008 wrote: »

Liverpool and United superthreads and the match thread ???
You didn't read any of them lately???

I havent read the United superthread in quite a while. I didnt read the match thread after kick-off. And i read the last page of the Liverpool thread.

Is that ok your honour?

Mr Alan

baz2009 wrote: »

BTW, he never said that a particular camera saw it.

Yes he did.

Evra wrote:

The cameras are there.You can see him say a certain word to me at least 10 times.

Melion

#15 wrote: »

Despite not wanting to start a Liverpool-United debate, you decide to ask if a United player can be banned for making an allegation against a Liverpool player?

Anyway, before this thread gets going, you would need to check if some people can understand the difference between a false claim and insufficient evidence.

Otherwise you will have a load of people advocating bans for Evra in the event of an ''inconclusive'' judgement.
And that wouldn't help answer your question at all.

I would be fully behind a lengthy ban for Suarez if this turns out to be true. This isnt now and was never intended to be a United-Bashing thread.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

You're the one that brought up diving in this thread. Nothing for you to be confused about here.

He says there are cameras, which there obviously are. How can he know exactly that a camera can see Suarez's mouth clearly enough for someone to lip read what he says?

BTW, he never said that a particular camera saw it.

you can see him say it

Thats exactly what he said.

Cypher_sounds

Wait! isn't their an ongoing investigation into these allegations...lets not jump the gun here and wait until the outcome of this probe.

#15

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

He could be deemed innocent because of insufficient evidence, which is not the same thing as proving that Evra is lying...

Wait, this has been done to death. Never mind.

BERBA

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

If Evra is found to have lied (he says it was said at least ten times & it can be seen on the TV cameras), then he should be facing a lengthy ban.

whether suarez is guilty or not , i'd ban him anyway;). He is not a proper role model.

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

I havent read the United superthread in quite a while. I didnt read the match thread after kick-off. And i read the last page of the Liverpool thread.

Is that ok your honour?

Yes that's fine but you probably would have been better off reading them as the topic has been done to death in all 3

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Melion wrote: »

you can see him say it

Thats exactly what he said.

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Now that it's both you and Alan here talking yere usual bullshíte I'm out before I get an infraction.

Melion

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Wait! isn't their an ongoing probe into these allegations...lets not jump the gun here and wait until the outcome of this probe.

Thats the reason i started the thread. If the claims around found to be untrue then should Evra face punishment?

And could everyone please notice that i said "Untrue" not "Unproven"

bucketybuck

Melion wrote: »

I havent read the United superthread in quite a while. I didnt read the match thread after kick-off. And i read the last page of the Liverpool thread.

Is that ok your honour?

The posts have now been linked, have you bothered to read them? Assuming you have, will you now formally retract your assertation in the OP that;

"his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?"

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

If Evra is found to have lied (he says it was said at least ten times & it can be seen on the TV cameras), then he should be facing a lengthy ban.

If he was ''Lying'' when he said the camera picked it up 10 times, it doesn't mean he was lying about the racist abuse he allegedly received. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Now that it's both you and Alan here talking yere usual bullshíte I'm out before I get an infraction.

He is a french international speaking to a french tv channel. I doubt he got lost in translation considering he was most likely speaking french.

Mr Alan

baz2009 wrote: »

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Evra is dealing with someones moral & professional reputation.

He can not afford to be mistaken, to make presumptions, or to get lost in translation.

If he is "mistaken", he should face a lengthy ban for being so frivilous in the accusations he's thrown at Suarez.

#15

Melion wrote: »

I would be fully behind a lengthy ban for Suarez if this turns out to be true. This isnt now and was never intended to be a United-Bashing thread.

Ok, but my point is that it's likely that it will be one person's word against another and it will be impossible to prove either way.

I would support bans for whichever one of them is lying.

But it's impossible to prove.
You can't prove Suarez didn't abuse him on the sly, out of the view of the cameras.
You can't prove Evra just made the whole thing up, unless he admits it.

IMO, the evidence will be inconclusive against Suarez, as it would be against Evra, and everyone will go off believing what they want to believe anyway.

I am fully with you that a lengthy ban is in order for whoever is in the wrong - I just don't think it will be provable either way.

Melion

bucketybuck wrote: »

The posts have now been linked, have you bothered to read them? Assuming you have, will you now formally retract your assertation in the OP that;

"his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?"

I read the one about the Chelsea incident. I still dont see it mentioned anywhere that Evra didnt claim racist abuse. There is something there about Mike Phelan but i didnt understand it.

Didnt even bother with the Steve Finnan link.

Fuhrer

Hilariously really.


One player with a history of scummy behaviour is accused of using racial slurs against another and all the Liverpool fans care about is how to discredit and punish the accuser.

Melion

#15 wrote: »

Ok, but my point is that it's likely that it will be one person's word against another and it will be impossible to prove either way.

I would support bans for whichever one of them is lying.

But it's impossible to prove.
You can't prove Suarez didn't abuse him on the sly.
You can't prove Evra just made the whole thing up.

IMO, the evidence will be inconclusive against Suarez, as it would be against Evra, and everyone will go off believing what they want to believe anyway.

I am fully with you that a lengthy ban is in order for whoever is in the wrong - I just don't think it will be provable either way.

Thats the thing though. Evra has made such a big deal about it and has said the referee is aware and cameras can see Suarez saying it. If he is so sure of this then it will be easy to prove. If a ref heard someone dishing out racist abuse then a red card would have been issued instantly. Even if it happened after the match.

BERBA

Mr Alan wrote: »

Evra is dealing with someones moral & professional reputation.
He can not afford to be mistaken, to make presumptions, or to get lost in translation.

If he is "mistaken", he should face a lengthy ban for being so frivilous in the accusations he's thrown at Suarez.

Suarez wasnt too worried about the millions from Ghana when he decided to play goalkeeper at last world cup. Moral and professional reputation you say:rolleyes:

Melion

Fuhrer wrote: »

Hilariously really.


One player with a history of scummy behaviour is accused of using racial slurs against another and all the Liverpool fans care about is how to discredit and punish the accuser.

Did you miss the posts supporting a lengthy ban for Suarez if its found to be true?

monkey9

Blatter wrote: »

If he was ''Lying'' when he said the camera picked it up 10 times, it doesn't mean he was lying about the racist abuse he allegedly received. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

Maybe not, but then you'd have to question his reliability on the allegations he's made against Suarez in general.

FYG

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

Racism is not acceptable.

Just because it happens regularly, doesn't mean it's right.

I just don't see how you can possibly think that it isn't a problem?

Mr Alan

BERBA wrote: »

Suarez wasnt too worried about the millions from Ghana when he decided to play goalkeeper at last world cup. Moral and professional reputation you say:rolleyes:

I never understood the big deal about this.

Not now. Not at the time.

He was dead right to do what he did. If he's ever in the same position for Liverpool, I hope he does the same.

It happens fairly regularly in football (a professional foul). The vilification & outrage from the press over it was absolutely hilarious.

In saying that, you even bring this incident, or others talking about diving etc in the same context as racial abuse is totally belittling a very serious topic.